Liz Kendall gives her closing appeal to become Labour leader as Corbyn and Jonathan Freedland (chairing) listen
Jeremy Corbyn laid into Israel at the Labour Leadership hustings at JW3 on Monday night and admitted he met Hamas but said “you have to have talks with everybody to bring about a long term settlement”.
In that case when will he meet Islamic State?
Corbyn claimed Israel had “put Gaza under siege” and that there were “serious issues concerning the bombardment of Gaza, the failure to reconstruct Gaza, the level of poverty and unemployment that exists in Gaza and there are also questions of children held in Israeli prisons. And there are also questions of the number of African refugees that are not being allowed into Israel and that are being deported from Israel.”
Children in Israeli prisons? For anti-Israel activists a “child” is anyone under 18 and these “children” may have thrown stones at a car with intent to murder its occupants, so they are not necessarily as angelic as Corbyn seems to imply.
Corbyn said he supported an arms boycott of Israel and a boycott of settlement products but said he did not support an academic boycott or an economic boycott of “Israel proper”.
On the issue of calling Hezbollah and Hamas “friends” at a House of Commons event Corbyn claimed he was just being “inclusive” but said that didn’t mean he agreed with the “social attitudes, social policies or legal views of those organisations” and claimed he has made that clear to them when he has met them.
He was also asked whether he would withdraw his support for the Stop The War Coalition due to its sponsorship of the Al Quds Day annual demonstration through London where Hezbollah flags are waved and which is a festival of hatred. Corbyn replied that it is “not designed to be a festival of hatred”.
But placards that have appeared at Al Quds Day demonstrations include: “Israel is a disease, We are the cure“, “Listen Israel, Leave!!!”, “For world peace Israel must be destroyed“, “Israel your days are numbered”, “Death to Israel”, “The world stopped Nazism…the world must stop Zionism”.
For an organisation of which he is the Chair he is pretty ignorant of the hatred it helps to incite on the streets of London.
Corbyn also stated that the Balfour Declaration was “imposed by some of the Jewish members of the cabinet” at the time but has since backtracked to claim that he meant to say “opposed”. It is worrying that a potential leader can get something so wrong from what he meant to say.
As for Liz Kendall, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper who are the other Labour leadership contenders they all condemned Corbyn’s use of “friends” to describe Hamas and Hezbollah. Cooper said that language is very important when discussing terrorists. Burnham said he would have sanctioned Corbyn for such language.
Meanwhile, Burnham said that he had voted in favour of the “Palestine” recognition resolution last year only because the vote had been whipped by Labour but that the first country he would visit on becoming leader would be Israel.
Kendall said that the vote was not whipped and that she had abstained because passing resolutions either at the House of Commons or the UN wasn’t the right way to achieve peace and a two state solution which should come about only via negotiations. She said she was a friend of Israel.
Finally, there was a lot applause for Corbyn but that can be explained by the many anti-Israel activists I recognised in the audience including ex-Labour MP Martin Linton.
Clips from Monday’s JW3 event:
Jeremy Corbyn attempts to explain away his description of Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends”:
Corbyn says Jewish cabinet members “imposed” Balfour Declaration:
Corbyn slams Israel and its holding of “children” in prison:
Opening remarks of each contender. Liz Kendall explains why she abstained on “Palestine” recognition resolution:
RichardMillett's Blog 
Corbyn is a deluded lefty – but he will not win. Obama’s misguided Iran agreement is far more important.
Liz Kendall would make a decent Labour leader and possible PM. Jeremy Corbyn is vile and worthless. Any Jew who supports him needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Who were the “Jewish Cabinet members” Corbyn has in mind? There was only one Jewish Cabinet member, Edwin Montagu – and he was notable for his opposition to Zionism. As Prof W.D. Rubinstein wrote in an article that has been seized upon by the anti-Israel Balfour Project website, which put it on in their essential reading “archives” where it remains, Leopold Amery, who made the final draft of the Balfour Declaration, was the son of an ethnically Jewish (Christian) mother and sympathetic to the Jewish cause. But that hardly justifies the “some of the Jewish Cabinet members imposed” contention.
It is utterly disgusting that the Labour Party should even consider Corbyn as a leader. Not only does he show his ignorance of history, but his hatred for Jews and Israel is irrational.
Corbyn will successfully destroy the Labour Party. I would like to wish him good luck.
Admits? Boasts!
WELL DONE JEREMY CORBYN,A MAN WITH A MORAL BACKBONE PREPARED TO STAND UP AND RESIST THE BILLYING AND MANIPULATION TECHNIQUES OF THE ZIONIST LOBBY.I PRESUME THERE WILL BE A HUSTINGS WITH A PALESTINIAN DELEGATION AND EVERY OTHER STATE IN THE WORLD.I DO ALSO HOPE THAT THE LEADER CANDIDATES WERENT PAID BY THE JEWISH LOBBY FOR THIS,LIKE GORDON BROWN WAS PAID BY SA
ME LOBBY WHEN GOING FOR THE LEADERSHIP.
Well done Mr Corbyn ,a lot of the country are behind you .
Well, no! In fact even his backers are no more behind him… To afraid of the collapse of the Labour that would ensue.
ACCORDING TO POLLS JEREMY CORBYN IS AHEAD,BECAUSE OF THE BLAIRITE LIGHT TORY CONSTRUCT THE LABOUR PARTY HAS LOST ITS WAY,WHICH IS WHY WE NOW SEE THE SNP DOING LABOURS JOB.THIS IS WHY THEIR IS A HUGE GROUNDSWELL OF SUPPORT FOR CORBYN,THE PEOPLE ARE TALKING NOT THE ” BACKERS”.PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SICK OF POLITICIANS BENDING OVER TO CORPORATE /LOBBYING MANIPULATIONS.HENCE THE GROUNDSWELL FOR A MAN OF INTEGRITY AND HONESTY LIKE CORBYN.
Maybe you should return to this forum when your tinfoil hat bout of CapsLocking has recessed…
About your arguments… Well, I couldn’t find any in your rants. Corbyn is an antisemite and most probably so are you for supporting one.
BRAVO OL CHAP, CORBYN HAS BALSS STANDING UP TO THE JEWISH LOBBYING TECHNIQUES.
SALUTE AND RESPECT . CORBYN FOR LEADER AND GEORGE GALLOWAY FOR MAYOR. HOW WONDERFUL
Looks like a second nutcase, but as he obviously ignore how to remove the Caps Lock on his keyboard, we know we’re dealing with the same tinfoil-hat.
AS USUAL THE REPLY DIALOGUE IS CRASS AD HOMINEM.WHICH I WILL SAY IS REMARKABLY COMMON WHEN ONE “DARES” TO SUPPORT AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW.😂
I’m going to make a wild guess that “Choci” Mckenzie and “Mark” McKenzie are one and the same.
Very easy to check the IP address, cba. But the incapacity on unlock the Caps is a telltale sign.
Their style and the fact that they both use caps lead me to suspect they are one and the same person. Maybe Richard can check their IP addresses and see if they are the same.
He is using an arabic keyboard and doesn’t know how to make lowercase characters. He is a Gazan, Hamas supporter. You can guess his name is a false one.
As usual, the nutcase continues to write in Caps Lock, a sign of mental instability on Internet. And belief that antisemitism is an “alternative view” boggles the mind as it is like one of the oldest hates still in activity.
… whereas your own hysterical ranting, intolerance, hatred, launching of personal insults at all opposition and extremist views are sign of intelligence?
You’re a war-monger. You admit you would eliminate the opposition. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear you’d eliminate anyone who opposes you – in any field.
If you do know a man by his friends, as someone said earlier, I hope it doesn’t apply to Richard from his association with Joseph.
” whereas your own hysterical ranting”
LOL, and I was under the impression that what I said was quite reasonable… Hey, wait! It is! But now that you feel cornered because you denied that Corbyn is an evident antisemite, you have to attack me personallY?
“intolerance, hatred, launching of personal insults at all opposition and extremist views are sign of intelligence?”
I don’t know, but seems to me that your intelligence can be questioned at this point.
“You’re a war-monger. You admit you would eliminate the opposition. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear you’d eliminate anyone who opposes you – in any field.”
Well, sorry! At this point your intelligence isn’t even in question.
“If you do know a man by his friends, as someone said earlier, I hope it doesn’t apply to Richard from his association with Joseph.”
My name is “José”, by the way. And now, not only you’re attacking me but you’re attacking Richard (with whom I have no friendship, never even met him in my life). So you have a problem with reading and begin to be hysterical, accusing everyone around. Isn’t that exactly what you were accusing ùme of doing above?
Which school did you fail to go to ?
They call them “madrassas” not “schools”.
Classic ad hominem,CORBYN knows the truth and isn’t afraid to speak it,he’s a politician with integrity that won’t be swayed by Zionist propaganda,rhetoric,he’s also ahead in the polls and a friend to Palestine. Which will of course lead to futile attempts by the Zionist lobby to besmirch his character with the old favourite call of “anti Semitism”
Hey;’McKenzie”, who’s Scottish as I am Irish, your lack of education is a blatant fact. Harvey can claim the exception of truth.
And remember that “Zionist” isn’t a bad word. In fact, it is a compliment. Obviously your semantics are those of a piss-poor propagandist, with no argument and totally devoid of logic.
People who persist in calling the opponents’ arguments “propaganda” invite the old riposte, “It needs one to know one.” All accounts are going to be at least slightly biased to advertise the best apples of one’s argument first. For some quirk of psychology quite a few people on discovering an opposing view suddenly think they have been conned entirely and forget that the opposing view also has a bias to excavate by assumption, premises or innuendo. Try the exercise of second order comprehension in which you attempt to recite the opponent’s view to the opponent’s satisfaction.
Also get off the idea that the Scots and Irish have been unduly mistreated by imperial Britain. Both did very well out of being in the British Empire as it gave them migration and commercial and professional access to some of the juicier parts of the World.
Just like it takes a Nazi to call another a Nazi. No, Frank. “Takes one to know one” is an infantile sophism.
About the ideas I need to get off, these doesn’t include anything about Scots and Irish.
About yours, I’m now sure they include a lot of demusions about how to treat the Nazis.
The “child” who planted a bomb in Brixton and the pub in Soho and was next planning to attack the Jewish community a few years ago was 17 years old. How funny that Jeremy Corbyn attacks Israel for “child abuse” but not – say – Rotherham. Any country faced with Israel’s problems (except Israel) would have bombed Gaza out of existence years ago, as for non-reconstruction, whose fault is that? The Gulf is overflowing with money but the wealth there goes entirely into Arab propaganda rather than in helping the Arab poor. Keeping them hungry will make them more aggressive and thus, it is hoped, anti-Israel. Instead it has caused them to turn on each other as in the “Arab spring”!
Thanks Richard for this summary of what was said.
Thanks for this report which makes it clear that Corbyn isn’t quite the anti-Semite he’s been portrayed as neither is he anti-Israel if he’s against the boycott of Israel.
We may disagree with his ideas and his methodology but he is genuinely interested in peace.
Still wouldn’t vote for him, mind!
How do you get to that conclusion? That’s for my rasearch on sophistry!
Which conclusion?
The conclusion that Corbyn isn’t an antisemite and even more stupidly not anti-Israel.
Let us make some distinctions or we will get nothing out of this. On a personal level he has helped Jewish constituents or organisations and is an undeniably good constituency MP. He is unlikely to be Antisemitic in the personal hate form. On the other hand as regards the nation state rights of the Jewish people there is a case if he accepts the Hamas programme to do away with Israel. If he is only against Israel stopping the Palestine Arabs having their state it is a legitimate gripe provided he criticises the Palestine Arabs for making a sow’s ear of a silk purse. In the makeweights of the dispute and the “balance of probabilities” calling Hamas ‘friends’ is against him on the old experience of, “Show me your friends and I will tell you who you are.”
Therefore instead of calling him personally which just shuts down debate; it will be better to question him on whether he has read the Hamas programme/charter? Whether he agrees that the Palestine Arabs could have managed their own affairs far better in and since 1947? and similar questions framed against the policy ie the “ball” and not the man. Refer to Hamas Charter articles and ask if he agrees with them as a man of the Enlightenment does he support their undeniable theocratic attitudes?
I don’t think anyone should make such subtle distinctions. Not hating the person in front of you because he is a Jew and being an antisemite are quite different things. Racist Southerners sometimes likeג their negroes, you know?
So Corbyn is an antisemite and there is no debate about it. I’m using the US and the EU working definitions of antisemitism for that purpose and the cap fits Corbyn.
Arabs didn’t talk peace to Israel and still don’t, eexcept for Egypt and Jordan. All those who tried it understood what they could earn in doing so and they got it. Because Israel is not a Nazi enemy. The opposite isn’t true. A number of Israel’s enemy are genocidal antisemites. The alternative with them doesn’t include talking peace, as they don’t understand the concept.
The alternative is whether to contain them or to eliminate them. Just a matter of knowing how much each way will cost.
Jose
My school comment was addressed to Mark not you .
Good, because I never answered to you either!
Calling people “vile” and other epithets does nothing for analysis even if it enlivens satire programmes. “Politics is the art of practical” – Wm Pitt Yngr. So the Palestine detail of importance to us is still a sideshow to him in the bulk of British politics where his suggestions for Britain make quite a bit of sense to his constituency, and absolutely. It similarly does not help to use “lefty / left wing” as a swear word and then add nothing to the argued discussion.
Corbyn does have a point that it will be necessary to talk to all parties in the Arab dispute with Israel BUT the corollary also follows that Hamas will get nowhere with Israel unless they treat it as an equal. Ask him whether it would not make sense for Hamas to take a leaf out of the books of Egypt and Jordan? let Israel be? and get on with the rest of its life?
Agreed.
To have credibility with the Arabs and respect from them (a necessity if wanting to deal with them) it might be a good idea to appear to respect them and be on their side (or at least not against them). I think that’s Corbyn’s tactic here.
Having said that, his seeming endorsement of Raed Saleh is worrying and needs more explaining and is the reason I would vote against Corbyn. Was he asked about this at the JW3 meeting?
Really Jon
Your naiveity is up there with Obama s .
Israel or anyone else doesn’t have to talk to Hamas. All what is required from Hamas or all terrorist group is disbanding.
Who can even think that there is a possibility to talk peace with genocidal antisemites? How did Britain talk to the Nazis in 1944?
“Who can even think that there is a possibility to talk peace with genocidal antisemites?”
People who want to make peace. People who want revenge, to apportion blame or insist they will not ever move their position don’t need to talk to the enemy.
No, people who think they can make peace with Nazis. In other words, idiots. We’re not just talking about an enemy, here. We’re talking about an enemy whose goal is to exterminate Jews. Not just Israeli ones, by the way.
I understand now how you got to that ridiculous conclusion that Corbyn wasn’t an antisemite and to that super-ludicrous conclusion that he wasn’t even anti-Israel. It’s pure fantasy and wishful thinking.
No, jonsimon, please answer to the question: how did Britain talk to the Nazis? After 1938 Munich, of course. Not talking about Chamberlains but Churchills, here.
Six recent former heads of Shin Bet advocate talking to Hamas. (See The Gatekeepers, 2012). Indeed, my bet is that Israel IS talking to Hamas as we speak.
As many wise men (including Nelson Mandela) have said ” If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy.”
WWell then you proved six former heads of Shin Bet want a seat in the Labour Party. But not that talking to Nazis is anywhere as effective as killing them. My bet is that Israel does what is in its interest with Hamas and certainly not negotiating peace, as we speak.
I doubt any wise man you can quote, including Mandela, has ever had a genocidal enemy in front of him. Mandela was kept in prison for 27 years. Jews would be summarily executed by Nazis.
So you go to work with the enemy… Oooops! You already do that, don’t you?
First in 1944-45 we defeated the Nazis. We have not indisputably defeated Hamas in the long term. Meanwhile there are practicalities to manage which even Hamas comes off its high horse to talk about?
We don’t need to defeat Hamas as we did the Nazis. They are mostly toothless. But that doesn’t mean they are not dangerous.and should be ignored. On the other hand, we don’t need to talk to them because we know there is nothing to expect from a genocidal antisemite, ie Nazis.
If anybody thinks that Jeremy Corbyn is not an Anti Semite, have not listen to what he advocates, we have seen him at the Palestinian rallies
, spouting his venom about Israel, and supporting Hamas and Hezbollah even in Parliament, he maybe hiding his light under a bushel at the moment to get himself elected leader, What ever needs to be done to defeat him should be considered.
It really is time to remember and remind audiences that the Arabs – as usual – set the precedents in 1949 – 67 when they shut frontiers against Israel excepting: diplomats, UN and some tourists via the “Mandelbaum Gate” in Jerusalem. It was Arabs who refused to talk peace in those 20 years. Arabs who insisted the Armistice agreements of 1949 were in no way permanent. Arab states that reserved their rights to change the Green Line border. It was the Arabs who refused to trade or transit anything. In all these respects Israel has spoiled the Arabs rotten since 1967 and the Arabs are still sulking as if they had not started the war on Israel.
And remembering and reminding audiences gets us where exactly? We can go back as far as you want to make a case for anything. You can even invoke a god and a prophet or two but the point is it’s 2015, we’re facing today’s enemy and if we want peace we need to talk to that enemy.
You probably didn’t read correctly the Hamas Charter. Hamas doesn’t want peace, therefore it is useless to talk to it on that subject. You are in the far past, the one where Nazi enemies did not exist and when they didn’t pledge to solve the Jewish question with the final solution.
But I suggest one thing. Go to Gaza and try to get a concession for peace. Then come back to tell us about it. OK? Seems the right thing for a practical guy like you.
INCORRECT UPDATE YOURSELF ON THE NEW HAMAS CHARTER/MANDATE,YOURE REGURGITATING A VERY OLD SCRIPT
Oh, and don’t forget to come live in Sderot meanwhile.
OK instead of remind – shout at them. The point is Cousin Ishmael and friends accuse Israel of besieging Gaza, of trying to starve it, of ignoring its so, democratic (?) rulers, and not talking or being nice to the poor little wounded feelings…. These people are being treated no worse than they treated Israel or would treat her. When young memory-less unread self righteous prigs ho have just discovered that Queen Anne is dead complain about Israel: tell them that the Arabs set the examples!
There is no new Hamas Charter, you’re stupid. It hasn’t changed one bit since the beginning and its translation is available on Internet. Proof of the contrary should be easy to you: just show it.
ONCE AGAIN CRASS AD HOMINEM ,PROPER RESEARCH STOPS PUBLIC EMBARRASSMENT
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel?CMP=share_btn_fb
From your own stupid link on the Guardian:
“The manifesto makes no mention of the destruction of the Jewish state and instead takes a more ambiguous position by saying that Hamas had decided to compete in the elections because it would contribute to “the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem”.”
So we’re not talking about the Hamas Charter. But about a ‘manifesto’, which “makes no mention of the destruction of the Jewish State”. Doesn’t even say the contrary of what is written in the Charter, it just doesn’t mention it.
At this point, I have only one thing to say: LOOOOOOOL!
The one link I posted is but one link in many,if you bother to do any real research you will also understand where Hamas are at right now.
The one link you posted, stupid, doesn’t mention the Hamas Charter and doesn’t say anything about genociding the Jews. It doesn’t mean of course that it is not written in the Hamas Charter. Even Wikipedia knows that the Hamas Charter contains that genocidal hadith, inciting to killing Jews wherever they are. Hamas are genocidal antisemites. Nazis. Corbyn supports Nazis.
For your ‘research’ and probably for your 101 education, here is the Charter of Hamas, not a manifesto that doesn’t deny anything:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant
“The Preamble to the Charter states: ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam invalidates it, just as it invalidated others before it″.”
“The document also quotes Islamic religious texts to provide justification for fighting against and killing the Jews, without distinction of whether they are in Israel or elsewhere.[30]”
The genocidal hadith is still there, in a Charter that wasn’t modified since the Nazi Hamas leaders wrote it.
Wow,Wikipedia ,now that’s the most reliable source of research on the worldwide web.😂
LOL, stupid! Wikipedia is a documented source: the link to the Hamas Charter’s translatuion is in it. But you’re too stupid to follow it,
Sorry to tell you that if the Arabs had won any of the wars they started against Israel, not only they would be no Israel but there would be no Jews left there. So saying that Israel doesn’t treat Arab worse than they would is a little bit… totally wrong.
Quite the opposite, try to name a democracy that treated a war enemy so well, after being attacked so many times by it. Or even just once. Try to find a democracy that fed his enemy population during a war. That set up specific fields hospitals to treat the enemy, etc. There is no siege of Gaza and there is not even one when Gaza is retaliated on by Israel. I happened three time in the last years and so everyone should remember easily this. Everyone should also remember that “Palestinians” are quite obese, even by Arab standards. Rarely happens to a population deprived of food.
So let’s stop chining about the “poor Palestinians”. The only thing they want is to wipe Israel off the map. Let’s make sure is never happens.
SORRY TO SAY YOU ARE SPOUTING NON STOP HASBARA PROPAGANDA DO SOME REAL RESEARCH INTO THE START OF SAID WARS.
Hey, stupid. I have done some real research before you were even born. Now just find a way to write like a normal person instead of a tinfoil hat guy shouting in CapsLock mode.
More typical ad hominem template attacks,!
More typical lack or argument. Did you forget that you have been caught red-handed re the Hamas Charter?
Mark
Would you not feel a little more comfortable posting on a BDS website or better still Storm Front . You will be among friends .
I’m quite happy posting the truth on various sites thank you.I understand that the truthers cause cognitive dissonance in indoctrinated minds but I’ve come to accept that.
LOL! You wouldn’t recognise a truth if it bit you in the face. You’re a tinfoil hat Gazan, traumatised by Hamlas ‘education’ Your postings make no sense, your assertions (eg re the Hamas Charter) aren’t supported and are easily proven wrong. You know nothing and no one with any remains of a brain will ever believe you.
Once again you use classy ad hominem,all rather crass if you ask me,there are many truthers out there that know exactly what Hamas are offering,they’ve been offering pretty much the same things since their democratic win,the problem with Israel is they no longer control the media,their abhorrent behaviour is now being exposed worldwide which is exactly why we need a labour leader with balls(not an automaton)that stands up against the hasbara lobby.
Thanks for this very stupid tirade, proving that you don’t know that Hitler was also democratically elected and that’s one more similarity with Hamas, apart from being both genocidal antisemitic maniacs, idiot.
Remember also that “Zionist” and “hasbara” are not bad word, quite the opposite.
Everyone is waiting here with baited breath the moment you will show us the Hamas charter does not contain the antisemitic genocidal hadith anymore. Remember, you have to find a real link to the *new* Hamas Charter that shows it is obsolete. Not a manifesto that doesn’t say anything one way or the other.
Here’s the truth about Hamas, from Hamas itself:
Hamas Orders More Terror Murders in Judea-Samaria
mackenzee, Remind us, who
– bombed London transport on 7/7/05?
– beheaded British soldier Lee Rigby-
– operates rape gangs that target British Infidels
– openly threaten the UK with 9/11 scale massacres?
It is practical politics to talk to those in a fight; and “Politics is the art of the practical.” What narks about JC and several others is that they consider a sheaf of theocrats who are against OMOV government to be their “friends.” Well by their friends shall you know them, and their friends want a World free of kaffirs – regardless of past moments of Moslem relative tolerance.
How did the Allies talk to the Nazis? Until you answer that question, I’m afraid you will continue to preach in the desert.
Israel talks to Hamas when it is practical. This is not the case in peace talks as there cannot be any peace talks with Nazi Hamas.
The West and the USSR did on various occasions talk to the Nazi government in Berlin before hostilities directly, and once hostilities had broken out politically low level but important personal enquiries about POW’s and missing family went through the Red Cross.
Yes, we know that. They talked? But not about peace which is the subject and my assertion. You exchange POW with Nazis (and we did exchange even hostages with Hamas Nazis), but you don’t talk peace. Nazis are to be annihilated.
No doubt Churchill was muttering similarly in cabinet about his War of Intervention with the Russian Communists in 1919 BUT he could not do it because of the geography and his own home politics. Israel is not in a position to eliminate Hams nor will it be allowed to in the foreseeable future, so that eventually leaves talking truces of some sort.
Oh by the way HAMAS have exactly the same problem in reverse!
If you can’t play soft cop, hard cop, what are you doing in the circus ?
You seem to be good at making dead people speak. I remember Churchill was called a “warmonger” by people like you because he supported war against the Nazis. History judged. “Chamberlain” is now an insult. I’d accept being called a “Churchill” with great pleasure. Which one will you be?
Most people outside British history are nowadays quite unaware of how Churchill was wrong half the time for which he has been given a blanket pardon for his 1940 stamina and speeches. We know what he was right about.
Churchill was wrong filibustering the 1935 India Bill; Churchill was wrong about giving artillery to Michael Collins to defeat De Valera; Churchill was wrong in 1927 to return to the Gold Standard at 1914 valuation. Churchill was wrong to grandstand at the Sidney St siege and to send troops besides Metropolitan Police to Tonypandy; and the Dardanelles hung on his neck till 1940.
To be fair to Neville Chamberlain – his brother Austen and father Jo(seph)also mattered in their time – was the best Tory peacetime premier of the late century and his successful career ended in Shakespearean tragedy – not the only one either. He got war debts interest down. He, as an experienced big town councillor, went to London as an MP with 22 drafted bills in his pocket and got all 22 through into law and funding; he started British council housing.
Hamas is a bloody nuisance but instead of getting angry, [cautiously] get even.
Only one answer to your speech: LOL!
Churchill could be wrong. Oh God! He was human after all? Well, thanks for the information. Hope his errors didn’t kill as many people as Chamberlain’s did. A few millions of them, including a number of Jews. At least, he left Churchill manage the problem.
SO Chruchill was a warmonger, after all. And he knew how to talk to Nazis. He could have surrendered to Nazi demands a thousand times. Don’t expect Israel to do worse than Churchill.
Stop trying to be exclusively black and white! The World is seldom a primary arithmetic exercise, and it is easier to take off one’s armour after battle than to put it on before, as Ahab put it. Try and understand why people did not take up Churchill till they had to. Remember that in the 30’s those who had survived battle in the Great War trenches and seen their friends and contemporaries die almost at inevitable statistical random – “If your number is up your number is up;” were still very much alive and did not want a re-run if it could be avoided. For that matter Hitler did not expect the British and French to fight about Poland because it did not make any more strategic sense than to fight about the Czechs who had already been dumped. In 48 as in 67 Israel had to fight; ditto in the three recent campaigns in ghastly Gaza; it does not mean she would not have preferred to avoid the expense of blood and treasure. In fact in 67 there was a lot of back stage exasperation waiting for Abba Eban to exhaust alternatives.
LOL, I’ml just trying to show you howwrong you are to thik talking peace to Hamas is even possible. You have a precendent with the Nazis, and it is evident that Hamas are genocidal antisemites, ie Nazis.
So why would Israel do what NO ONE ever did with Nazi Germany?
Until you answer that question, your delusional speeches can be safely ignored.
Fact is the WW II would have been stopped mur earlier and costed much less if irresponsible appeasers didn’t call everyone who dissented “warmongers”. Chamberlain is now an insult. Do you remember what Santayana said about those who forget history? Or in your case spin it to mean whatever you think it means.
mckenzee, Hasbara is more honest than your UPPER CAPS TAQIYYA (koranic sanctioned lying to promote islamofascism).
Happy Eternal Nakba!
P.S. Do you remember how scotland stabbed the families of the vicitms of the bombing of Pan Am 103 when socialist scotland released the convicted bomber of Pan Am 103, who they claimed was release on “compassionate” grounds because according to expert medical opinion, megrahi was dying of prostate cancer and was determined to be dead within 3 months, yet he lived close to 3 YEARS – and he was welcomed home to libya to a heroes welcome complete with a waving saltire flag of islamofascist appeasig scotland?
Focus on 2:13
http://www.frontlineclub.com/the-51-day-war-gaza-one-year-on/
Thanks for this ad for an even no one with half a brain would be attending. Max Blumenthal is a Jewish antisemite and Chris Gunness has ridiculed himlself not condemning the Hamas for storing weapons in UNRWA schools and giving them back like a nice dog.
Human Shields for Hamass earn Darwin Award and 72 virgins.
Google the Rome Statute of the ICC and look at the list of recognised war crimes in Art 8 (?). Using people as human shields is there plain as pikestaff because the familiar form was colonial police and troops or occupying Germans putting locals on locomotives or in vans or on trolleys before them to discourage track bombers. Nobody then ever expected Arabs nor anybody to use their own people – their own school children – as human shields.
Help!
I’d like to unsubscribe to new comments on this thread (because nothing new is actually being said).
How do I do that?
LOL! Because your contribution was something new?
jonsimon, What’s wrong with hating genocidal islamofascist iran? Is that counter revolutionary?
Does the Islamofascist Regime hold massive rallies lead by their “Supreme Leader” calling for death to Israel and America? In your beady eyes, is it wrong of Israel and America to oppose Fascist Iran???
Would it be OK with you for people of good will call for DEATH to Fascist Iran, walk on the flag of Fascist Iran?
Solving or dissipating international or any other problems is NOT a matter of hate nor any other emotion; but of striking a bargain if you can not eliminate and so disregard the other side.
You can’t bargain with antisemites. It just doesn’t work until they, themselves are forced to address this antisemitism that is the real problem.
So repeating over and over that untrue assertion that one has to talk with Nazis (in order to reach peace, kumbaya!) won’t make it true.
Delete your account.
You have shown that your have nothing worthwhile to contribute.
Wow. The level of hostility on here is fantastic. The inability to even consider any other perspective or listen to anyone else’s argument but instead merely shouting down dissent and issuing insults is a credit to right-wing, closed minds everywhere.
Apparently, just throwing your unsupported opinions is not enough to open others’ mind.Strange, isn’t it? While the “warmongers” have a clear precedent, you have only to offer your naiveté as a support of your ambitious theories. Isn’t it a sirprise that people react to that somewhat harshly?
Those who cannot stand the heat should stay out of the kitchen.
jonsimon said:
” The inability to even consider any other perspective or listen to anyone else’s argument but instead merely shouting down dissent and issuing insults is a credit to right-wing, closed minds everywhere.”
Whats more right-wing than a bunch of ayatollahs leading nuremberg style rallies in fascist iran calling for death to Jews, America, gays, women?
Jonsimon, if, having debated from a dissenting minority opinion and lost, you then announce that you want to unsubscribe to new comments, you should not be surprised to be told to gei in drerd arein. I suppose you were hoping someone would say, “Oh stay with us, bubbeleh, we’re so sorry to have made you unhappy, how can we make you feel better?” I am not your counsellor.
Lost? How does it work being judge and jury exactly?
I proposed a dissenting view and received a torrent of abuse. Shutting down debate may make the right-wingers on here feel better but it does nothing for anything else.
The level of personal abuse on here is quite extraordinary. Richard deserves better.
LOL. You presented an opinion without any argument, asserted without any support that this article was ‘proving’ Corbyn wasn’t an antisemite, not anti-Israel nor anti-boycott, which was a big joke.
So you got some heat! If you can’t stand it, try to support your fantasies first, then get some extra think skin. Don’t try to make it a left vs. right thing. It adds to your lack of credibility.
You don’t deserve better than what you got.
…and as if my point needed any more evidence, another semi-literate rant from Jo.
LOL! And you have brought the whole of your arguments on the table in the last two posts of you. I’m waiting to see your French before I’ll decide how literate you are in that language. I guess you’ll be happy to make only one error every other word.
…and as if my point needed any more evidence, another confused and semi-literate rant from jon.
lol
Honestly, it’s a school-yard this, isn’t it? Populated by a gang of bullies and fools.
Straw Man-tastic too.
The good thing with “JonSimon” is that he doesn’t seem to have any urge to provide any suport for his fantasies.
Jo, Maybe I should allow you some leeway if English isn’t your first language. I’ll withdraw ‘semi-literate’ from my description of your contributions and replace it with ‘unintelligible’.
Maybe you should stick to French forums for your trolling? At least those you attack will be able to understand you.
Hope this helps.
LOL Jon, You don’t have to allow me anything. You’re not a semi-moron. Unitelligible. Not doubt it is, to you. Maybe you should stick to moron forums, for your trolling? At least, no one would care to understand what you write.
By the way, I’m happy to see you didn’t risk any French here. I would have corrected only a few dozens of your mistakes.
Sadly, voting isnt down to all of us but just a small number. Anti-Israel labour leader would not be useful. I would argue that Miliband failed to lead Labour to victory at the last election due to what he was planning on “giving” the muslim communities
Miliband lost but he was seen as ineffectual, uncharismatic and had unimaginative unappealing policies. I doubt his Islamic posturing had much to do with his loss though any moves towards embracing Islam should quite rightly be off-putting for the electorate.
I don’t think it helped him being Jewish either.
Bottom line is that Labour didn’t appeal to the majority of the electorate. If Corbyn is Labour’s leader that will be the case at least until he isn’t.
Of course it doesn’t help Miliban being Jewish, especially since he has to endlessly proves he will not support Israel because of it. Something that isn’t required from any other. So he does the opposite: trying enlessly t osupport the racist islamist side. Of course, it doesn’t help him bein elected. Corbyn is even worse, of course, as antisemites appeal only to other antisemites.
British election results are a bit like averages concealing a multitude of sins in detail. The absolute majority of the present cabinet of Scrooge, Gradgrind and Uriah Heep is 12 seats and the total of all the votes in the 12 majorities of the 12 most marginal majorities of the present government is barely 900 total. For that matter somebody calculated that the Blair 97 victory was a total of 300 000 in swing seats. The tory tabloids should beware of crowing as on precedent things could swing easily given the discontents and the forthcoming €uro nonsense.
For those yet deluded enough to think Corby isn’t an antisemite, here is some more proof:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3187428/Jeremy-Corbyn-s-links-notorious-Holocaust-denier-revealed.html
“When asked to confirm whether Corbyn knows Eisen personally, or whether Eisen’s accounts of Corbyn attending ‘every single’ one of his events and ‘opening his cheque book’ to his organisation are correct, the spokesperson declined to comment.”
If that was US, I would say it’s 5th Amendment”…