Anti-Israel activist Antony Loewenstein: “Six Million Should Die.”

Antony Loewenstein is an Australian anti-Israel activist who describes himself as “a non-practising atheist Jew”. He has just co-written a book with Ahmed Moor called After Zionism, about the search for a one state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

Last night Loewenstein and Moor spoke at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London to promote the book.

Loewenstein told the audience of about 150 that “Zionism actually is the issue here. Although it is probably very hard to imagine in 2012 the idea of a Middle East country called Israel that’s not a Zionist state, the truth is that it was impossible equally to imagine a South African country that wasn’t wracked with apartheid.”

Both Loewenstein and Moor are big supporters of boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. Moor was, incidentally, born in Gaza and is now at Havard doing a Master’s in Public Policy.

Loewenstein said that getting bands and musicians not to go to Israel to perform is “a tool, not an endgame”. It was, he said, a way of telling Israel that “if you choose to behave in this way you’ll not be treated as a normal state.”

Loewenstein described the Israel Lobby in the UK as “very powerful” while Moor said he thinks that American Jews are turning away from Israel, preferring what happens in Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm to what is happening in Jerusalem. He said he thinks Israel is not an important part of their lives anymore.

It was all the usual standard anti-Israel rhetoric.

But, during the Q&A Jonathan Hoffman asked Loewenstein how many people Loewenstein thinks should die for this one-state solution, that Loewenstein wants so much, to come into existence. The idea being that Israelis are not going to vote themselves out of existence, so presumably such a state could come about only by force involving more bloodshed.

As Loewenstein wasn’t quite answering the question he was pressed further by Hoffman as to how many people Loewenstein thinks should die. First, Frank Barat, the Chairman, answered “200,000” (here is more on Barat). Then Loewenstein answered “Six million. That’s my answer. Write that down.

What sort of individual comes out with such an answer? Mocking the Holocaust seems to be becoming de rigeuer within anti-Israel activism. Here is someone calling herself Jane Green back in October last year.

Maybe “six million” was randomly plucked out of thin air by Loewenstein. That seems doubtful. Hopefully, he will be pressed further on what made him say such a cruel thing when he returns home to Sydney, Australia.

Here’s the audio:

Antony Loewenstein audio – “Six million should die.”

Here is Jonathan Hoffman’s take on last night: How many have to die to achieve ‘One State’?


243 responses to “Anti-Israel activist Antony Loewenstein: “Six Million Should Die.”

  1. Michael Cohen

    Israelis should just give up there state..come on whats wrong with that .i mean why wouldn’t they?.i’m sure the British would give up there state would the Russians ..i mean Putin seems like a reasonable man .right?

  2. Howard Klineberg

    Maybe this Australian should be sprouting a 2 state solution for his homeland? A state for the whites who arrived 200 years ago and a state for the indigenous population. The ONLY reason why he doesn’t is because the Aboriginies have not conducted a war of terrorism against the settlers. In return in 1976 and 1993 the Australian government enacted land-rights legislation that has returned to the aborigines a degree of autonomy, and court decisions in 1992 and 1996 recognized aboriginal property rights. Sounds quite similar to the return of Gaza, the recognition of Palestinian rights to self-govern in the West Bank and in return all Israel asks is for peace. In return she gets violence. Now Mr Loewenstein, can I respectfully suggest that when the Jews give up Israel and people like you build new gas chambers you head up the line and be the first of the next 6 million. You are a very ignorant and shameful person. Shame on you, you are certainly no Jew.

  3. Steve Winston

    Coming from Australia, with it’s history of the white settlers and the aborigines, I think this hateful little cretin should think twice about his stance against Israel.
    Of course, there is no real parity between Israel and the Jews who returned there to build their country once again, and the white settlers who went to Australia.
    Although, if I’m not mistaken, in the latter part of the last century, Australia did give a degree of autonomy to the aborigines, just as Israel has done with gaza and those Arabs in Judea and Samaria.
    (us Jews can’t even safely go to places like Hevron and yerico anymore since they’ve web given to the pa).
    And of course, the aborigines have never waged awar of savage terror against the white Australians, as re Arabs have against the Jews.
    This Lowenstein schmuck should be ashamed of himself.
    As far as I’m concerned, us Jews do not need drek like him!

  4. Well I listened to the audio. I am just amazed you know who didn’t get thrown out for disruption again.

    • It’s called Freedom of Speech. A concept foreign to you and Islamofascists.

    • Oh and I forgot to add the third of your persona pseudos on the JC: “Armchair Quaterback” (along with “Richard Armbach” and “Real Real Zionist”). “Armchair Quaterback” was banned for bullying each and everyone.

  5. Noam Chomsky was advocating for a one-state solution as early as the 1970s. As proof it could work he pointed to two examples of complicated populations living in harmonious co-existence: Lebanon and Yugoslavia. Seriously! Then, bloody civil war and ethnic conflicts tore both countries to pieces, with Yugoslavia exploding into five nation states.

  6. my oh my Richard

    don’t you know that Loewenstein is one of Gert’s heroes, someone he likes to copy and paste from?

    How is he ever going to forgive you for catching that one – nobody comes up with the number 6 in that context other than with utterly evil intent.

  7. Priceless, OyVaGoy. You can’t even make this stuff up, right?

    “Good one, Noam” indeed…

  8. Antony Lowenstein, while you’re at it, start packing your crap and end your brutal, oppressive occupation of Aborigine land and return to your ancestral home in Eurabia.

    No Double Standards Antony.

  9. I am sitting here in Kochav Yair, Qalqilya to the right, Tira straight ahead, Tayba to the left, on this balmy night, eating a tub of cottage cheese only the Israelis know how to make so yummy and reading the c—p Richard and Jonathan have again been witness to. Oh my oh my, the folk here, Jews and Arabs alike, think these experts who spend their lives devoured by propaganda that fouls their souls are just worthless gits. The Lowensteins, Papes, Moors et al don’t even enter the equation. As Douglas Murry so poignantly stated in Cambridge, thank God anything they sprout has no bearing on any outcome in this neck of the woods. Thank God nobody evens knows who they are let alone pays any attention to their rubbish.

  10. But Israel already is a single state in all but name…

    Why would you (or Mr. Hoffman, so vocally) ‘presume’ that more would have to die in order to achieve what it already is?

  11. I have had the distinct ‘pleasure’ of having been in the presence of that moron Loewenstein..

    He is one hate-filled piece of pure scum. Words cannot describe him. He spreads his venom far and wide and is the darling of the ‘pro-Palestinian’ mob, who hang on his every word. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach when I hear his name. He is the lowest of the low.

    Bottom dwelling scum

    I had to endure his speeches last year at Council meetings, when one of our Sydney Councils tried to impose their boycott on Israel.

    I cannot begin to describe the loathing I have for him.

  12. stay classy Michael.

  13. The question Hoffmann asked was idiotic and hysterical. Straight out of a kangaroo court. Lowenstein treated it with the contempt it deserved by giving Hoffmann exactly the answer he wanted. Big mistake. He shouldn’t have taken the bait.

  14. exactly

  15. And as Baruch says……. the argument might run…”.there already is one power, as near as makes no difference one state, between the river and the sea.The chances of this changing lie somewhere between very slim and zero. Maybe we should throw up our hands in despair and accept it. Accept it’s permanence and devote our energies to considering the nature of this one state.”

  16. One state:
    – The Jews don’t want to give up Jerusalem. They wouldn’t have to.
    – The settlers don’t want to move. They wouldn’t need to.
    – The refugees want their right of return. They wouldn’t need to return anywhere – they’d already be home.

    All three major issues solved in one go, simply by dissolving the PA, formally annexing all of the land and giving equal rights to all of Israel’s newly-acquired citizens.

    All without one person having to die.

    • Unconditional Surrender of Islamists to Jews, Christians, HIndus, Buddhists, Bahais, Atheists.

      I like that.

      Not one person has to die. Peace in our time. And $10 per barrel oil and cheap gas, muscle cars.

      • So you prefer the status quo:

        People have to continue dying. There’s no peace in our time. And the price of oil is artificially inflated by warmongering (and sold only in [bankrupt] US Dollars to protect US hegemony).

      • I’d be careful with using the phrase “peace in our time” – the most prominent one who said it said it after he had been duped and misled in the best gangster fashion possible.

        Say Baruch, could it be that your memory is a bit impaired?

      • Barack, I prefer eternal Nakba.

        Nabka being the name coined to describe the failure of five Arab armies to destroy little Israel in 1948, just three years after the end of WW2 and the Holocaust.

        Islamofascism picked up the mantle of the national Socialist nazis – to the extent that Hezbollah does outstretched arm salutes like their Euro national Socialist role models.

        Google Images “arab nazi salute”. Those aren’t cartoons.

      • @Silke: TGIAI can use the phrase “Peace in our time” but I’m not allowed to replay it back? Seems a little unfair.

        I fail to see how repeating the words used by one commentator in a reply to his/her post would be indicative of an ‘impaired memory’.

        Perhaps it would be best to read the thread before throwing selective brickbats?

      • @TGIAI: that may be your definition of the word Nakba but it’s hardly the generally accepted one.

        If it were then surely Israel would celebrate the Nakba each year rather than deny it and ban its commemoration?

        Israel banning a memorial of ‘little Israel’s’ triumph? You’re just not making sense with that one.

      • Barack, Happy Nakba!

        May all your Jihads turn into NAKBAS!

      • Baruch, sweety

        there is a German saying: Wenn zwei dasselbe sagen, so ist es nicht dasselbe = roughly: if two say the same, it doesn’t mean the same.

        Think about it – if you are capable of it

        Have you wised up on German citizen law by now or is that too painful for you to even contemplate it.

      • @Silke: …oh well if there’s a German saying then it must be true.

        If ever I need to know anything about German citizen law (which I couldn’t doubt more) then I know who to contact.

        Pity you’ve never anything to comment that’s on-topic though, but when you do I’ll be happy to hear from you.

      • Baruch
        you singled out Israel for no reason
        I told you, you were wrong
        of course that can’t be on topic, since li’ll over-self-important Baruch can never be wrong

    • the refugees would already be home? you do realize the PA and other palestinian groups consider the current number of refugees to be around 4.2million. Where-pray tell are they going?

  17. Pingback: Loewenstein Antics | Israellycool

  18. Hi Sharon
    Just caught up with your recent comment and so jealous .
    You are spot on when it comes to lack of Israeli awareness of the sort of nonsense spouted by the Loewensteins and their supporters .
    In fact it just doesn’t register in any form .
    They go about their day to day lives totally oblivious to the things which we witness and agitate against.
    Finklestein labelled these idiots a cult . A bunch of obsessive haters who have zero political traction and zero critical mass which could overcome the former deficit .
    So much sound and fury signifying zip .

  19. There was no bait . He was caught offguard by the question and answered spontaneously .
    Most individuals have a remarkable propensity to tell the truth and say what’s on their minds under such circumstances .
    It’s ok . He s in good company with the likes of Atzmon and Greenstein . Fellow antisemites .

    • Bit of a difference of opinion here: Harvey suggests Loewenstein “answered spontaneously” (which he asserts means that this was truthtelling).
      However Richard’s commentary suggests “As Loewenstein wasn’t quite answering the question he was pressed further by Hoffman… First, Frank Barat, the Chairman, answered… Then Loewenstein answered.

      Hardly seems spontaneous does it?
      The audio doesn’t back Harvey’s claim to ‘spontaneity’ either.

      But in true Hollywood fashion why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

      • richardmillett

        Baruch is a nitpicking bore. He said it. Pretty revolting what he said. Stop trying to defend the indefensible, for once.

      • The answer is that no-one has to die for one state.

        – The Jews don’t want to give up Jerusalem. They wouldn’t have to.
        – The settlers don’t want to move. They wouldn’t need to.
        – The refugees want their right of return. They wouldn’t need to return anywhere – they’d already be home.

        All three major issues solved in one go, simply by dissolving the PA, formally annexing all of the land and giving equal rights to all of Israel’s newly-acquired citizens.

        Why defend a nonsense question?

      • richardmillett

        Except UNWRA classes anyone descended from a Palestinian refugee as a refugee. That’s the problem.

  20. Isn’t Sharon a one stater ?

  21. Richard,

    did Barat clarify what he meant when he said 200, 000 should die to achieve one state? Did he elaborate any further?

  22. Seems like you are a one stater too Adrian. Hell the buggers are everywhere.

  23. Two states but we get what we want and give them what they need, not what they want.

  24. Anyway they already have their state. Its called Jordan. (We allowed them to have it).

  25. Fascinating. So one state between the river and the sea right ?

  26. Now that Antony Lowenstein is in the UK, he must stay there, effectively ending his brutal and racist occupation of Aborigine land – and Antony must pay reparations to the Aborigine people.

    • TGIAI:….oh learned one…I see you are playing the victimologist’s sympathise-with- the -underdog -no -matter -how -barbaric -he -is game. Did you know that those brutal and racist Aboriginal tribes were constantly at war and eating each other…yes for din-dins…..before the peaceful civilised Europeans turned up and transformed Australia into a civilised country. They should be on their knees to whitey thanking him for liberating them from barbarity but instead they are wallowing in self-pity getting blotto or hoodwinking New Agers into thinking they were spiritual.
      The whole sorry scenario is the same in New Zealand with the nasty macho Maori wife-beaters and their bleeding-heart touchy-feely supporters.

  27. I am aware that last comment of mine is considerably off-topic, but nothing there should offend Richard, unless he has Maori blood on his father’s side.

    • roger the rat, From your avatar we can see that your parents were of similar backgrounds.

      • TGAIA the humanist….yes both my parents were reincarnations of Sicarii terrorists. My family goes back 2000 years up here on Masada. It is our ancestral homeland and we love hiding in the rocks listening to all that claptrap the guides feed the Birthright groups about our ancestors being noble freedom fighters.

      • roger the rat, Who should we believe? Your words or your self selected picture?

  28. Roger, they level the same thing against S.Africa/Zimbabwe/Kenya. Turned it into a great place then turned it back over to the ‘natives’ and with the best will in the world they didn’t do such a good job. It really doesn’t matter who is running the country, black/white, Jew/Arab, or for that matter Conservative/Labour. Just as long as everyone is cared for and the place is well run. And there’s the rub (sadly)

  29. Adrian. One state between the river and the sea right ?

  30. Jordan is the Palestinian state already. They can go there and live their lives, forever wishing they had stayed where they were and had accepted what they had been offered. We all know they don’t want a state because if they get one they they will have to pay taxes, go to work, go in the army and give up UNWRA and other funding. They may be mad but stupid they are not!

  31. That is a hint of an answer but still a little wriggly. Adrian, how many states between the river and the sea ?

    • richardmillett

      Change the bloody record, Rich! Or go to the pub. Preferably the pub!

      • Richard

        you are getting confused – it is roger who keeps announcing that he’ll be off to the pub and then 10 minutes later comments again

        By now I’d really like to know what happens during those 10 minutes and/or the whole pub-going-project.

  32. Under the UN mandate, One state for Jews from the river to the sea and a state for Arabs in Jordan. That won’t happen because we gave everything already, so its two states between the river and the sea, providing they will take one (which they have refused to take before, until they try to take over the Jewish state and then its back to the status quo. Jews only ended up with 15% of the original Mandate lands (give or take), half of which was malaria swamp, the Arabs have 85%. Do you seriously think they will be as happy with their 85% as the Jews are with their 15%?
    I suggest you read Sun Tsu. Then you may be able to read the future.

  33. Pingback: Left-Wing Anti-Zionist Would Support the Murder of Six Million Jews « thesystemworks

  34. ok the pub it is

    • Heavens please let there be a miracle and rich and roger meet and fall for each other so much that they forget all about commenting around here.

  35. Adrian K – suggest you have a word with TGIAI – he/she doesn’t believe that Israel was ever supposed to be that part of Mandatory Palestine that became Jordan. Which kind of screws up your percentages a bit.

    However Dayan agreed that Israel was Palestine when he signed what he acknowledged Palestine to be, the map included within the armistice agreement with Jordan.

    And if Dayan agreed that Israel was (is) Palestine and Palestine was as shown on the map then that’s good enough for me.

    So Israel now controls 100% of the land in question.
    And it’s one state now in all but name.

    So why not have the chutzpah to formally annex it, absorb its new citizens and afford everyone equal rights?

    The Jewish settlers wouldn’t have to move,
    Jerusalem would be ‘undivided’
    The Palestinian refugees living in the West Bank and Gaza would be home already.

    Would save anyone ‘having to die’.

    • Baruch…..what would die is the Jewish state…and that’s a fate worse than physical death.

      • 57 Islamist dictatorships, kingdoms, theocracies. Creeping Sharia law. $100 per barrel oil. Never enough.

        What GREED.

      • TGIAI: I hardly think that the Palestinians, or one state with equal rights for all can be blamed for the price of oil.

        100% of the land and none of the people. That’s what people here are advocating – yourself included.

        What greed indeed.

      • Barack, Which currently existing Islamist entity can serve as a role model for a future “democratic”, “equal rights for all”, “equal rights for men and women”, secular “palestine”?

        Muslim Brotherhood Egypt?
        Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?
        Islamic Regime of Iran?
        Islamic Regime of Pakistan?
        Hamass ruled Gaza?
        “Palestinian” Authority ruled by masked gunmen?
        Current day slaver Sudan?
        Taliban controlled Afghanistan?

  36. If, as you’ve set me thinking, Jonathan Hoffman values a Jewish majority over human life then his question was both misleading and deliberately provocative.

    Why ask ‘how many people’ (and let’s give him the benefit of the doubt by presuming he didn’t limit the word ‘people’ to mean Jews only), when in reality he’s probably more concerned about demographics. I’ll put it to him on TheJC.

    In spite of how he’ll wriggle and double-twist turn, it’s a pity that human life is viewed as being cheap, and continued killing is preferable to unity.

    • richardmillett

      Baruch, do you not condemn Barat and Loewenstein for their answers? I really don’t get you at all.

  37. Richard, I don’t get why you avoid replying to much of anything at all?
    Not even points that come up from your own presumptions which you then extrapolate upon and put forward as de-facto truths?

    Let’s strike a deal – you reply to all of the points I’ve raised in this and your prior blog entry (which up until now you’ve steadfastly avoided) and I’ll reply to your question above.

    And no, not commenting does not imply agreement. If that were the case then there are many, many comments you’d have agreed with by your silence over the last few days.

    • richardmillett

      You ask so many questions. It’s fair enough. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I don’t know about your claims about israelis killing their own people. As for arafat, everyone claims how the Palestinians are all indigenous when many aren’t. What else?

      • You “don’t know” about Israeli’s killing their own? Really? Just google “ringworm children” as a starter for 10. Or the S.S Patria if you prefer something a little lighter and less gut-wrenching.

        As for “everyone” claims that “all” Palestinians are indigenous – that’s a bit of a sweeping statement isn’t it? Care to prove it?

        How many of Israel’s founding fathers were indigenous?

      • Barack, How many of Americas Founding Fathers were indigenous?
        Or Australia, New Zealand, Canada. Gibraltar, Falkland Islands, British West Indies?

        Arafat was born in Egypt. Not a native born “palestinian”, Jordanian.

        Which country was the prophet Mohammed born in?

      • Or the Altalena incident. In this case, I’m behind what Ben Gurion did.

      • richardmillett

        Oh Roger, you really have a sick mind.

      • richardmillett

        And to be honest, no one cares about your views. We are aware of your hatred and contempt so is it really any surprise that when jews are drowned you support it?

      • Richard… would be nice if you could respond to my comment intelligently with some salient remarks rather than attacking me personally for no reason at all. What on earth is sick about what I said this time?
        Apropos the Altalena, are you seriously saying that you support what Begin and the Irgun were intending during that incident, and that Ben Gurion. Galili, and the Haganah (proto-IDF) were wrong to stop them?

      • richardmillett

        Many were drowned. Do you always have to comment? Can you never just think before you stick your oar in?

      • richardmillett

        It’s unbelievable. You hate everything about israel and how it came about. Yet, when jew kills jew your there applauding! You have one sick mind.

      • Nobody drowned. The passengers had disembarked and 16 Irgun fighters were killed in the confrontation with the IDF. Just imagine what would have happened if Ben Gurion hadn’t acted. It would have been a civil war between the irgun and the IDF, and the Arabs would have just sat back and watched.
        My understanding is that Ben Gurion was preventing a disunited free-for-all, which would have resulted in even more deaths than the sinking of the Altalena, more massacres like Deir Yassin, and possibly the end of israel before it was even founded. He understood that a united front of a legitimate force was essential in the ’48 conflict. Begin was a brutal individual who cared not for the lives of those lost that night. Ben Gurion called him a Nazi terrorist. Yes, he, and other leading figures in Israel, have used that term frequently to denigrate fellow Jews. Repugnant, but true. I would personally never call a Jew or an Israeli a Nazi. It is absurd.

      • richardmillett

        Yes Roger, we know what your understanding is. Can’t you go and taunt another blog with your understanding? It would be much appreciated. Thanks.

      • And always presume. When did I say I supported Jew killing Jew?

      • Come on Richard…deliver. Where did you get the information that many drowned? Take responsibility for your statements. After all, it’s your blog, man.

      • richardmillett

        Many were killed. This you applaud. Now go away.

      • Many were killed? Many drowned? really?

        Sixteen Irgun fighters were killed in the confrontation with the army (all but three were veteran members and not newcomers in the ship); six were killed in the Kfar Vitkin area and ten on Tel Aviv beach. Three IDF soldiers were killed: two at Kfar Vitkin and one in Tel Aviv.

        Many? And they were all combatants.

        Nobody drowned.

        Why do you dissemble?

        Oh look…..a source. And a reliable Jewish one too.

      • richardmillett

        16 isn’t many? How many did you prefer? Excuse me for treating you with such suspicion after the hate that pours out of you day after day.

      • Foolish Barack, If you really want to focus on groups killing their own, the most recent example is the killing of 20,000 Syrians by Islamofascists, Islamofascists stoning their own women for “family honor”, the 8 year Iraq/Iran war – 1,000,000 killed.

        That’s some “Religion of Peace”.

    • richardmillett

      Oh yes nations. Cooper isn’t the first to refer to israel in derogatory tones as a nation. The Guardian called israel an arrogant nation. There seems to be a trend here. When people think israel does wrong some see it as a nation, not a state\country. It’s very suspicious. That’s all. What else?

      • Richard
        you are the owner of a blog

        that fact doesn’t oblige you to do anything – you have no obligation whatsoever

        If you want to talk to us commenters it is exclusively your decision and it is a completely free one.

        And hopefully you are still anonymous enough that other than the man on the soap box you don’t have to fear physical aggression.

        Personally I find Baruch’s style very aggressive and please note that he tried to imply that Israel’s citizen laws were unique, once proven wrong he kept mum.

        i.e. he doesn’t answer, why should you? He is into baiting you and I have a very strong suspicion that whatever you say will show up in mangled and distorted form somewhere else.

      • @Silke: where in the thread did I “try to imply that Israel’s citizen laws were unique”?

        And where was I proven wrong?

        It’s pretty easy to keep ‘mum’ on something I didn’t say and wasn’t challenged on.

      • Bit of a half-hearted attempt to answer all the points your suppositions and presumptions raised Richard.

        It’s not for me to re-ask them in full (you can read) so in the interests of brevity:

        > Israeli atrocities past and present, (horrible what people can do to their own – and for money too – isn’t it?) Your answer: you don’t know.
        > Israel is more trustworthy than Iran, (how many yards of fabric came out of that ‘Textile Factory’ in Dimona? Refusing to sign the NPT, having a Nuclear arsenal vs. accusing others of wanting one, deceiving US inspectors in the early 60’s): No answer.
        > Why Israel winds people up (and therefore ‘deserves to be nuked’ – your words, not mine): No answer.
        > Why Israel is, of course, the most peaceful of nations: No answer.

        Also, after a brief sojourn into the whole Herzl Israel is in Palestine, thing you brought indigenous peoples into the debate:
        Where was Ben Gurion born? No answer.
        Where was Golda Meir born? No answer.
        Where was Menachim Begin born? No answer.
        … etc. Not a lot of indigenous ‘founding fathers for you to list, are there?

        Oh yes, and your definition of ‘nation’. One that wouldn’t get you so outraged.

        Then, if you really wanted to get back on topic, why would a one state solution (which effectively is what Israel and the OPTs already is) have to be violent?

        – The Jews don’t want to give up Jerusalem. They wouldn’t have to.
        – The settlers don’t want to move. They wouldn’t need to.
        – The refugees want their right of return. They wouldn’t need to return anywhere – they’d already be home.

        All three major issues solved in one go, simply by dissolving the PA, formally annexing all of the land and giving equal rights to all of Israel’s newly-acquired citizens.

        If you wanted to add some value to the thread: Why would that be any more bloody than forcing a two state solution? What do you mean by a two state solution. And by that I don’t mean the usual “two states living”… blah. Something solid. Something that you’d stand by.

      • Barack, Using your yardstick, any claimed “palestinian” not born in “palestine” is NOT a “palestinian”.

        No Double Standards please.

      • TGIAI: What on earth are you on about?

        Richard asked where Arafat was born – as if that proved some point.
        I replied asking where certain key founding fathers of Israel were born.
        As you know, none of the key characters listed were born in Palestine.

        No yardstick in sight. No double standard. In fact it would have been a double standard *not* to ask where Ben Gurion was born, for example.

      • Barack, LOL! You ask where Israeli Found Fathers and leaders were born. It is natural to ask where “palestinian” Founding Fathers and other jihadi terrorists were born.

        Your undermining the “palestinian” narrative is appreciated.

        Happy Nakba!

  38. Pingback: Anti-Israel activist Antony Loewenstein: “Six Million Should Die.” — Winds Of Jihad By SheikYerMami

  39. BTW, Gaza is not “the most densely populated” spot on Earth.

    Hong Kong is. And Hong Kong is a bit more successful than the Hamass death cult.

    Happy Nakba!

    • According to the US Census Bureau’s 2008 Statistical Abstract, Gaza is less
      densely populated than Gibraltar, Singapore, Hong Kong, Monaco and Macau.
      Macau (population 453,000) is four times more densely populated (42,271
      per square mile) than Gaza (10,665 per square mile).

  40. Check out this short video.

    Israeli Driver vs Arab Carjacker

  41. Yosef Kutner

    It also happens that 6M is also the approx number of Jews in Israel. So Loewenstein may not just mock the Holocaust but suggest a new one.

  42. Quite frankly Richard listening to the audio and looking at the headline to this post, if I were Loewenstein I would be suing you. Except I wouldn’t because that is for cry babies. But you know what I mean.

  43. I am sure you are right Shirl. Merely pointing out that it is a pretty defamatory headline.

    • richardmillett

      Why defamatory? I was repeating what he said and explained it further in the body of the piece. And I even concluded the piece by giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    • A headline that exposes a shameful “progressive” mindset.

  44. @TGIAI “You ask where Israeli Found[ing] Fathers and leaders were born”.

    Yes, AFTER Richard brought the subject of being indigenous into the discussion, not before.

    Try to keep up with the order of the thread…

    [Of course the answers Richard’s looking for but avoiding to print are:
    Ben Gurion: Russian-Polish.
    Golda Meir: Russian.
    Menachim Begin: Polish.
    …and so the list goes on.]

    • richardmillett

      Baruch, I agree with you! But what’s your point? Jews have always lived there.

    • Barack, So called “palestinians” not born in “palestine” have no claim to “palestine”.

      Thanks Barack

    • me thinks this Baruch is a wee bit keen on ethnicity – or is he much surer than I am that Meir never held American citizenship.

      In fact to me it seems likely that she did.

      Somehow I also doubt that Begin held Polish citizenship when he came to Israel-to-be.

      Also I’d be curious what a Russian-Polish citizenship is supposed to have been.

      • The question (in reply to Richard’s question as to where Arafat was born) was where were [ie in which country] these people *born*, not which citizenship they held at any point in time throughout their lives.

        Ben-Gurion was born in Płońsk, Congress Poland, which was then part of the Russian Empire. As citizenship is your choice of word you decide what that made him.

        You never point out where in the thread did I “try to imply that Israel’s citizen laws were unique”? And where was I proven wrong?

        Or was that just something you made up?


        Personal details
        Born Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini
        24 August 1929
        Cairo, Egypt

        Happy Nakba!

      • Yes – well done – we’d already covered off the fact that Arafat was born in Egypt.

        And then we went on to determine that non of Israel’s founding fathers were born in Palestine.

        Do try to keep up.

        Still – good that we’ve got it on record so comprehensively – next time Richard raises the subject in his blog we can just paste a link. It’ll be so much more efficient.

      • the importance Americans accord to place of birth is as best I know not the dominating one in the world.

        BTW which passport held Arafat at the time of his death?

      • Barack, Any self-proclaimed “palestinian” not born in “palestine” has no claim to “palestine”.

        There’s always Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Eurabia.

      • @TGIAI: Israel’s Law of Return however gives any Jew, born anywhere in the world and never needing to have set foot in Israel at all, the right to ‘return’ to it.

        And you raised the point about ‘double standards’?

        But it would seem that it sets the precedent for a future law which gives Palestinian’s the right to return to their land (now named Israel) too. Perhaps just enshrining one of the UN Resolutions that protect their right to return under International Law.

        @Silke: what gives with with the whole passport and citizenship thing? The question’s were clear – where were people born – and they’ve been answered.

        Why not ask Richard (to my knowledge not an American) why HE asked where Arafat was born and not what his citizenship was at any point in time, or what passport he held, etc. Till then, question answered.

      • richardmillett

        Baruch, I know it hurts you but israel is a sovereign country and creates its own laws and can decide who has a right to live in israel and who doesn’t. A bit like any other country really.

        Do tell us about Arafat’s citizenship. What country was Arafat a citizen of exactly?

      • …Still waiting for your answer to the plethora of other points your blog raised Richard.

        You remember them?

        Still waiting.

        Indeed, I’m guessing that comments will be closed long before you get round to answering any of the them.

        And now you want Arafat’s passport to become another diversion?…
        Why not enlighten us all first as to how it fits with Jonathan’s question “how many must die” exactly, and the answers given by the panel. Just so that your readers can put this new question into context.

        It’s becoming easier to see why you would describe this, your own blog, on TheJC as “my miniscule irrelevant blog.

      • richardmillett

        Yes, a miniscule irrelevant blog that you seem to be devoting huge amounts of your important time to! But thanks for the hits!

      • You’re welcome. Doesn’t take much time to keep debunking the usual myths.

        Will keep asking the questions – the silent replies are golden and speak volumes.

        I look forward to your next topic.

  45. “You boys have nothing better to do than sit around and taunt a blog. How sad.”

    Richard, you are right. I maybe might give it up. I might take up running around London as part of a little cult picking idiotic sand pit squabbles with competing cults.

    • richardmillett

      Yes, Rich, exposing how your political allies come out with sickening anti-Jewish sentiment time after time after time.

    • Rich A, I suggest you run around Aleppo. I hear the nightlife is exciting. Maybe we’ll get lucky.

  46. Richard are you able to name even on political ally of mine ? Just a single one, don’t exert yourself.

    • This is interesting. Israel in Europe, a government organisation, has just posted on its Facebook page, a map showing the national grid for electric cars in Israel. Take a good look at this map. What do you notice?

      • Yes, many Israeli maps already show one state – from official tourist maps to this government organisation map for electric cars ‘in Israel’.

        As it’s already ‘one state’ after all… presumably no-one else has to die and Jonathans question was quite irrelevant.

      • what do you call a state where 3 million of its inhabitants do not have citizenship or voting rights?

        Want to play hangman TGIAI?

        – – – – – – – – –

      • “what do you call a state where 3 million of its inhabitants do not have citizenship or voting rights?”

        Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Islamic Regime of Iran, Iraq,…

      • damn..i’ll have to rephrase that now…..what do you call a state where 3 million of its inhabitants do not have citizenship or voting rights……but the other 7 million do?

      • What do you call a state that oppresses Coptic Christians, a community that lived in the land of the Pharaohs BEFORE the prophet mohammed ever came on the scene?

        What do you call a state that oppresses one half (female) of its population?

        What do call a state that used poison gas (a WMD – THERE THEY WERE) on the Kurds of Halabja?

        What do you call a state whose president and ayatollahs threaten genocide?

      • as best I know there are rather more like that in the US

      • ‘damn..i’ll have to rephrase that now…..what do you call a state where 3 million of its inhabitants do not have citizenship or voting rights……but the other 7 million do?’

        A state where the leadership of 3 million of its enemies only agreed to end its war of elimination against said state 40 years late, and which dragged its feet coming to a final peace settlement in which all developments during those 40 years of war had to be negotiated?

        And it was only by occupation that that state brought its enemies to any kind of recognition or negotiating, or had you forgotten?

        Abbas rejected a Geneva Accord offer in 2007, and didn’t reciprocate any to Netanyahu’s settlement building freeze in 2010.

        So Israel will fix the barrier as the permanent border, and the West Bank will have to fend for itself. And if Hamas takes over, and threatens Israel, Israel will flatten it.

    • Rich A,


      Next question.

  47. Think of all the stress and wear and tear on keyboards that would have been saved if you know who had checked this out before he asked his dumb assed question.

  48. Arafat was a citizen of Egypt. Egyptians are not nor do they consider themselves to be Arabs

    Gaza and/or the West Bank are not countries.
    One can’t be a citizen of a non-existent country.

    One can be indigenous to a country, without being born there.
    Many genetic studies have shed light on Jewish origins to the very area where Israel is now.

    Arabs are not indigenous to the region.

    A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695 very interesting. There’s a whole book waiting to be translated , if anyone knows a Latin scholar!

  49. Barack, This Nakba’s for you.

    Osama bin Laden, 9/11 – Saudi/Yemini – died in Pakistan
    KSM, 9/11 – Kuwati
    19 hijackers of 9/11 – Saudi (15), Egyptian, UAE (2), Lebanon, Egyptian
    Blind Sheik Rahman, 1993 WTC bombing, Egyptian
    Ramzi Yousef, 1993 WTC bombing, Pakistani
    Saddam Hussein, dictator – Iraqi
    sirhan x 2, assassin of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy – “palestinian”
    Abdel Megrahi, bomber of Pan Am 103 – Libyan
    Anwar bin Nasser bin Abdulla al-Aulaqi – American, died in Yemen
    7/7/05 London transport bombers, British “Asian” suicide bombers (4)
    Richard Reid, sneaker bomber, British
    Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, underwear bomber, Nigerian
    Khomeini, Death fatwa on writer Salman Rushdie
    Assad family dictatorship of Syria, 20,000
    John Walker Lind, American

    Blessings of Nakba on you Barack.

  50. Arabs are not indigenous to the region.

    So kick em all out right ? How will they travel ? Let’s not go there.

    • No I never said to kick them out. If they want to stay and be part of a democratic country, they are more than welcome to stay.

      If they want to oppression that comes with loving in an Arab/Muslim State, then go and be part of that.

  51. Methinks Shirl is a one stater. The buggers are everywhere.

    • From the River to the Sea,

      “Palestine” Will Never Be.

      Happiest of Nakbas!

      • TGIAI

        I love your slogan and it will be a brilliant one at the next anti BDS action I’m involved with. I have an artist friend who can make posters of it.

      • Shirl of Oz, If you do make a poster, post a picture.

        Get the word out. FIGHT BACK. RESIST.

      • TGIAI.. will do ASAP.

        We are in the middle of State-wide Council elections at the moment. After the fiasco we had last year with Marrickville Council, the BDS and the Greens, all effort and time is being put into making sure we reduce the numbers of the ‘loony left’

        I am also in the process of organising two public meetings for Shurat HaDin

      • As we speak TGIAI posters and t-shirts with

        “From the River to the Sea,

        “Palestine” Will Never Be.”

        on them are being put into production.

      • Team Shirl in Oz AKBAR!!!!

    • How did you guess that Rich A?

      Less than a year ago I wasn’t. After having been there this year for the first time and after having been to Judea and Samaria and after having spoken with a fair few Arabs… YES I CAN PROUDLY SAY I AM.

  52. I just had my Antony Loewenstein ‘fix’ of the day and you’ll never guess who is posting there.

    None other than RICH A

  53. Is Antony Loewenstein willing to be one of the six million?
    He may not have a choice. Six millions Jews were murdered by the Nazis but to accomplish that they had to kill more than 20 million non Jews.
    If six million Jews were to die this time too rest assured that that there will be many, many more millions non Jews and many antisemitic Jews who will also die.

  54. But Shirl how many people will have to die ?

    • None.

      • Shirl can we be clear about this. One fully democratic state right ? Everyone is a full and equal citizen ? Everyone will be free to live and work anywhere in that state they wish ? You know like a proper country ?

      • Provided they act appropriately in regards to the State. Which will be a hard ask for most.

      • An addition too.
        Provided that Jews who were evicted from Arab lands are free to live there and have their property returned

      • I thought it was too good to be true. I was going to ask you where you parted company with Loewenstein but that questions redundant.

      • ‘Shirl can we be clear about this. One fully democratic state right ? Everyone is a full and equal citizen ? Everyone will be free to live and work anywhere in that state they wish ? You know like a proper country ?’

        With right of return for Jews, as well as Palestinian Arab Muslims and Christians?

      • Seeing as there aren’t too many people who fled in 1948. Yes.

        All those born after that date NO

      • Shirl,

        How about limiting it to the Palestinians who were alive before the “Zionist Invasion” in 1880?

      • Not workable Daniel.

        Palestinian Arab refugees need to be treated as any other refugees.
        These Arabs languishing in so-called ‘refugee camps’ are no different to you and me. Languishing there because their fellow Arabs don’t want them.

        I’m of Russian/Polish refugee stock, born in England, that doesn’t give me the right to claim the ‘right of return’ to those countries.

        Anyhow it has to be tit for tat. How many of the countries who forced their Jewish population out, would take them back?

        Jews were forced out, Arabs left at the insistence of their own leaders, with the promise of return when the Jews were annihilated, which we know didn’t happen. This is all well documented

      • Shirl,

        I was joking, so I shall not argue the point. You were offering the “right of return” to Arabs who had been expelled in 1948, in other words they’d have to be over the age of 64, so I limited it further to those over the age of 132.

        Seriously, I don’t believe that anyone who left on their own free will should be considered a refugee neither do I believe that any country should be required to award citizenship to those who do not intend to be loyal to its principles, in our case that Israelis is a Jewish and democratic state.

        It goes without saying that a person whose grandfather or great-grandfather left a country is not a refugee either – or else my grandson would be a Polish Tunisian German Argentinian British refugee, which is just plain daft.

        Finally, I do not believe that a country should do anything that harm its national interests or endangers its existence.

      • Daniel I realised you were joking. I was just trying to make a point to “I’ve forgotten what their names are”

        Gib a kick – Have a look, if you don’t understand Yiddish. Growing up in the East End I do.

        DAHLING Loewenstein’s latest offering

      • Hi Shirl,

        I know what “gev a keck” means, or more precisely I know when to use it.

        Have just returned from Shalem David’s circumcision and was delighted to finally get to meet the lovely “Israeli nurse” there. Also present from the blog were the forever eloquent Michael Goldman and the evergreen Nick Kopaloff – both sporting stylish black attire, despite the late summer Mazkeret Batya sun.

        How agreeable it is to meet other commentators off-blog. Perhaps now is as good a time as any to reveal that I also had the honor of meeting and indeed, breaking bread with the author of this excellent blog a few months ago in Herzlia. Richard is as fine a conversationalist as he is writer and many matters of consequence were discussed as well as a trifle or two.

      • Daniel, Mazal tov.

        Richard has both my email addresses if you want to drop me a line. I write to him off and on and feed him info when I can, as in the case of the Lush soap saga. My family knew Richard’s father way back, they were in the same business.

        It’s interesting when you put face to a name you’ve known a long time. You have a idea in your mind of what they look like and it’s not at all what you imagined

    • Almani Sleiman

      Hi Shirl,

      Rich is quite right, but it is important to explain who he us referring to, when he talks of “everyone” who will live in Palestine according to the terms of a One State Solution:

      “The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father – whether inside Palestine or outside it – is also a Palestinian.”

      “The Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.”

      We generally date the beginning of the Zionist invasion from about 1880.

      • Zionist invasion? You have to be joking. Why don’t you jsut say what you mean?
        You mean Jews.
        I have news for you. Read some history. Jews are the indigenous people of the area, not Arabs.
        1. Not one settlement in the Land of Israel has a name that is of Arabic origin. Most of the settlement names originate in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin or Roman languages. In fact, till today, except to Ramlah, not one Arabic settlement has an original Arabic name. Till today, most of the settlements names are of Hebrew or Greek origin, the names distorted to senseless Arabic names. There is no meaning in Arabic to names such as Acco (Acre), Haifa, Jaffa, Nablus, Gaza, or Jenin and towns named Ramallah, El Halil and El-Kuds (Jerusalem) lack historical roots or Arabic philology. In 1696, the year Relandi toured the land, Ramallah, for instance, was called Bet’allah (From the Hebrew name Beit El) and Hebron was called Hebron (Hevron) and the Arabs called Mearat HaMachpelah El Chalil, their name for the Forefather Abraham.

        2. Most of the land was empty, desolate, and the inhabitants few in number and mostly concentrate in the towns Jerusalem, Acco, Tzfat, Jaffa, Tiberius and Gaza. Most of the inhabitants were Jews and the rest Christians. There were few Muslims, mostly nomad Bedouins. Nablus, known as Shchem, was exceptional, where approximately 120 people, members of the Muslim Natsha family and approximately 70 Shomronites, lived.

        In the Galilee capital, Nazareth, lived approximately 700 Christians and in Jerusalem approximately 5000 people, mostly Jews and some Christians.

        In Gaza for example, lived approximately 550 people, fifty percent Jews and the rest mostly Christians. The Jews grew and worked in their flourishing vineyards, olive tree orchards and wheat fields (remember Gush Katif?) and the Christians worked in commerce and transportation of produce and goods. Tiberius and Tzfat were mostly Jewish and except of mentioning fishermen fishing in Lake Kinneret — the Lake of Galilee — a traditional Tiberius occupation, there is no mention of their occupations. A town like Um el-Phahem was a village where ten families, approximately fifty people in total, all Christian, lived and there was also a small Maronite church in the village (The Shehadah family).

        3. The book totally contradicts any post-modern theory claiming a “Palestinian heritage,” or Palestinian nation. The book strengthens the connection, relevance, pertinence, kinship of the Land of Israel to the Jews and the absolute lack of belonging to the Arabs, who robbed the Latin name Palestina and took it as their own.

      • We generally date the beginning of the Zionist invasion from about 1880

        Just another igorant Jew-hating bastard, then.

      • Richard, I bet you’re glad there isn’t a Richard Millet blog watch.

      • Thanks Almani
        For one awful moment , I thought you were going to write 1780 .
        There is hope yet . We remain destined to partake of the baklava and the fruit of the Garkiya tree .
        Salaam wa salaam

      • Almani Sleiman, Expect your family to be informed that you have dishonoured them. A sheik got paid off to testify.

        Best regards!

      • ‘We generally date the beginning of the Zionist invasion from about 1880’

        Which begs the question what the P.L.O. intended for the vast majority of Israeli Jews, since their charter didn’t allow for them to begun Palestinian citizens. A charter in force until 1988, at least.

        In other words, Palestinian Arab Muslim and Christian nationalism has been expulsionist or eliminationist towards most Palestinian, then Israeli Jews, for over 100 years. Hamas arguably still is.

  55. Danny who is ” them ” and who is ” us ” ?

  56. Pingback: The Ozi Zion Blog » Blog Archive » How low can Lowenstein go?

  57. Norman Cohen

    Rich since you like RRZ and all your other alter egos have no idea what a “proper country” is who are you to judge if Israel is a “proper country” whatever that may mean. After all thee Ayatollas think that Iran is a proper country.

    • Hi Norm…you certainly don’t live in a proper town. Maale Adumim was expropriated as a new settlement in 1975. It is the third largest illegal settlement in the Occupied Territories. The expropriation was a violation of the 1907 Hague Regulations which state that ‘private property cannot be confiscated’ by the occupier.
      How does it feel to be a criminal squatter on someone elses’ land Norm? No guilt? Not even a little bit of unease somewhere in your dormant colonialist’s consciousness?

      • It is the third largest illegal settlement

        It’s not ‘illegal’, however many times you repeat this ignorant antisemitic nonsense.

    • roger the rat prefers terrorist islamofascist gangs which…

      – murder Coptic Christians of Egypt
      – publicly stone girls to death for supposed violations of “family honor”
      – publicly hang gay teens from construction cranes
      – provide sanctuary for war criminal osama bin laden
      – murder 5,000 Kurds of Halabja Iraq with poison gas, a WMD
      – murder 20,000 people in Syria
      – plant bombs on passenger planes like Pan Am 103
      – plant bombs on London transport on 7/7/05
      – dynamite two 1,500 year old Buddah statues of Bamiyan Afghanistan
      – engage in current day slavery in Sudan
      – kidnap people and video tape their beheading
      – publicly threaten europe with massacres
      – issue death fatwas on writers of fiction like Salman Rushdie
      – publicly threaten annihilation of another US member state with one bomb and accept the retaliatory death of tens of millions of their own population to trick a 12th Mahdi, hiding in a well, to pop out of that well
      – threaten to block the Strait of Hormuz
      – gouge the entire world with $100 per barrel oil
      – use their own children to clear minefields left over from an 8 year war with neighboring Islamofascist entity

  58. Jose, I remember the good old days when you used to say that in Spanish, French, and Afrikaans.

  59. Daniel Marks | August 26, 2012 at 6:18 am |
    “Ooh you, miser Shirl – only one state?!

    I’m proud to be a 23-stater. 22 for them and one for us!”

    I think before Danny is gonna be be happy in this one state between the river and the sea he is going to have to get himself some attitude therapy.

  60. Daniel Marks

    There are only 5,700,001 million Jews in Israel, 5.7million according to Wikipedia and one being my new grandson, who has not been counted yet.

    This means that Antony will have to either bring 300,000 from abroad, which will not be an east feat. We can’t persuade anywhere near that number to live here, so I can’t see them coming here just to be killed. The other option is to begin killing Israeli Arabs, foreign workers or tourists – but the latter would hardly be good for Israeli tourism.

    Finally, if Tony does manage to kill 6,000,000 (it’s not unprecedented), then it would be more of an Final Solution than a One State Solution.

    All in all it may sound like an excellent idea to the anti-Semites of SOAS, but I really don’t see the Israeli electorate going for it at this stage in the game. I wonder why.

    • sincere congratulations on your grandson – what a young grandfather you are! keep in shape so you’ll be good at giving the boy a good time.

      • Daniel Marks

        Thanks Silke, circumcision on Sunday. When you say “keep in shape” you’re assuming a fact that is not in evidence.

        My mother’s friend called today to say that she had a great-great-grandchild. Now, that’s called keeping in shape. I guess that means we’re 5,700,002! Well, at least that makes Tony’s life a little easier.

        Apparently today is 40 years to the Munich massacre; how time flies.

        Talking of flies, it’s funny how quickly one gets used to ignoring the pesky ones. They’re still there and still buzzing around, but what began as an irritation soon becomes a not unpleasant tickle.

      • richardmillett

        Munich was 5th-6th September. Mazeltov, Daniel.

      • Daniel
        I was thinking of keeping in shape so you can show and tell your grandson the world according to Daniel – tell the tale of how it came about that he became who he is. Or just teaching him how to cook or spoiling him so madly that his parents start to fight with you.

        As to Munich the exact date is wrong but I think it is right to remember the whole period.

  61. What degree of stupidity does one have to attain to think, or even to write as if he thinks, that Antony Loewenstein wants to kill 6 million Jews ?

  62. Almani Sleiman

    LOL! I think Daniel was referring to Rich when he spoke of pesty flies. Very naughty Daniel.

  63. I would very upset to learn that he wasn’t Almani.

  64. I stand corrected regarding Munich, sorry.


    For every bean full of weevils G-d supplies a blind grocer.

  65. More voices in your head Danny ?

  66. Almani Sleiman


    Don’t mind Rich, he doesn’t seem to know a lot about Middle Eastern culture. Where did you learn about blind grocers?

  67. But he does mind me Almani. He minds me very much.

  68. Better than being a legend in your multiple minds TGIAI/advsr/jose/anthony/blackie/mitnachel

    • Your multiple personality disease predates my arrival on that blog!

      • The right thing to do is to censor those who indulge in personal attacks and don’t stay on-topic. I think it is the minimum that is expected from those who comment on a blog. This way, we’ll get totally rid of “Richard Armbach” aka M.illis and partly of roger.
        And that will be a good riddance.

  69. I forgot Normie

    • Hopefully Norm has slunk off in shame and repentance, and gone looking for the people whose land he’s living on…..they’re probably just a half-hour’s drive away living in the squalor of Deheishe refugee camp dreaming of the land Norm and his fellow holy elect stole from them. Come on Norm, how about a nice bit of Tikkun and Teshuva?

      • richardmillett

        Roger, do something constructive with your life! Go away!

      • I am overwhelmed by your displays of sympathy for the displaced and dispossessed, Richard. I’d love to know what the source is of your compassion and understanding, so that I can emulate your humanity.

      • richardmillett

        Roger, please just go. I don’t appreciate your constant personal attacks. You have nothing to add.

      • roger the rat, Go find a piece of cheese on a spring loaded platform.

  70. Daniel Marks

    It’s wholly a hypothetical premise, but would I have been born a gentile, I’d like to believe that I wouldn’t have been a Jew-hater.

    I certainly wouldn’t have converted to Judaism. Being a good Jew is extremely arduous and I even have to work hard to be the very mediocre one that I am. I’m not at all sure that I’d be a wonderful gentile like Silke either.

    Nevertheless, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be an anti-Semite. I say this, not because I’d have any particular partiality towards members of the Mosaic faith, but because I try to usually be a happy and positive sort of bloke and these appear to be traits quite lacking in many of our opponents.

    I’m not talking about the real Palestinians who I meet everyday either. They appear, for the most part, to be little different to us and are often as bored as I with politics. Of course we have a conflict and in their heart of hearts many might still want to see us driven into the sea or nuked by Iran, but in the meantime things are usually most cordial and we can share a coffee and a laugh.

    No, I’m talking about the miserable wretches that seem to have nested on this and other blogs, who waste their lives plowing through old history books and each others’ writings searching for malicious things to write about Israel and its people. When asked which regimes they support, there are none. Israel is a monster, the PA are Quislings and they don’t like the Hamas or the Jihad much either. They don’t support Iran or Egypt. They dislike both Assad and his opposition. They’re opposed to the US role in Iraq, but don’t have a good word to say about Saddam Hussein either. They disagree with the invasion of Afghanistan, with the regime that existed before the invasion and the one that exists now. I’m bored to tears just describing them.

    For all those reasons I hope I’d support Israel. Israel is not perfect and the messiah hasn’t come yet, but we are trying. We are a vibrant energetic Western Democracy in our neighborhood that pretty unusual. Our people are not all angels and we have our thieves and our pimps and murderers too, but we try and catch them and punish them and don’t usually turn them into national heroes. There are those among us who hate other peoples and even each other, but we usually try to teach them not to and are sometimes even successful.

    And last but not least, we’re generally quite a happy lot. We’ve got many reasons to be proud and we’d rather that than wasting our time criticizing others. That’s why I’ve decided to waste no more time arguing with anti-Semites and that includes my old mates Roger and Gert too. If they have any questions, I’ll be happy to answer them, if I can, but after two or three years on this excellent blog and with the birth of a beautiful grandson and a new book to write, I’ve finally reached the conclusion that life is too short. I guess that if I haven’t persuaded them by now, I never will.

    I’m still here and I’m still writing. It’s just, that like Richard, I’m bored with the bickering.

    • Daniel: I’m happy to communicate without bickering but Richard keeps telling me to bugger off.

      • Daniel Marks


        Why not write on Gert’s excellent blog or Tony Greenstein’s?

        I found your comments about Rabbi Ovadia Yosef to be highly offensive. I have never spoken of the Pope or any Islamic spiritual leaders in such terms. Nor do for a moment believe that you have – not regarding those who call for the butchering of infidels nor those who have defended Catholic child molesters.

        Your comments about one of the leading rabbis of our generation were of a wholly personal nature – that’s all they could be – as you’ve never heard him speak nor read what he’s written.

        I am not a supporter of Rabbi Ovadia, but as a Jew I am offended and have no wish to “communicate” with you today.

      • Daniel: Maybe if the Pope stated that Jews are donkeys and are only here to serve Christians, then you might want to say something offensive about him. Ovadia Yosef is a racist. And you are in denial about that because of your attachment to the rabbinate.

        Do you have a link to Gert’s and Tony Greenstein’s blogs?

      • Daniel Marks

    • Daniel

      you are torturing me – what will your new book be about?

      and no I am not wonderful I just don’t get what it’s all about.

      If the “west” were of sound mind and self-interest it wouldn’t stand for Israel to be harrassed the way she is.

      • Daniel Marks

        Actually, I’m less enthusiastic. It’s about three world leaders (four chapters on each) and Cleopatra, Napoleon and Mandela were chosen. I think that the main thing that these three have in common is my ignorance regarding all of them.

        I began reading Napoleon by Paul Johnson and am enjoying it less than I had anticipated. As I imagine Bonaparte to be the most interesting of the three this hardly bides well.

      • For goodness sake you two get a room this is embarrassing.

      • this is an aside but I think I learned rather a lot about Napoleon while listening and it is real fun
        Somewhere in the lecture he mentions that Russians coming to France were appalled as to how poor people were

        my first introduction to Napoleon was of course this one which I remember as being amazingly realistic as to what war meant, especially for a book peddled as a romance.

        Until I entered the blogosphere I had never heard that Napoleon had been good for Jews.

        Something about Napoleon in Germany left me with the suspicion that the fact that apparently lots of those monasteries secularised by him were turned into mental asylums which in turn makes me wonder whether that boosted the number of people “worthy” of getting locked away. On “my” Greek island people were kept part of the community which in my part of the world would have been locked away.

        And last but not least Stendhal was a bureaucrat somewhere in Germany (Braunschweig? the city which gave Hitler German citizenship) I learned from a reading on radio. I have the book which is a door stopper but haven’t gotten around to looking it up yet. If you are interested I could find, copy, send. (at least I hope that the passage is in that one)
        The reading impressed me very much because the clash of the settled ones and modernity I heard in it seemed so universally correct.

        PS: I’ve never come across Paul Johnson, is his on the History of the Jews not only good but also a pleasure to read?

        PS: In a very badly written book the facts of which are probably realiable I just came across the story of Magda Goebbels and her fling with Zionism. Combining those facts with my currently going through another batch of Sebastian Haffner’s writings I vote for the murder to have been a Nazi-hit-job. That phone-call to her made them by their own logic sign his death warrant. Goebbels had sent an SS-man to a journalist who’d written something un-PC about her and that man without any ado beat the writer to pulp with a baton and Goebbels praised the action. So they were more discreet in Tel-Aviv but they could be when they wanted to be and judging from all the excerpts from Goebbels diaries I am getting right now, I get the hunch that he wrote them for how he wanted to be described in history books.

        PS: Cleopatra will be a tough one, all I come across convinces me that the experts all agree on not agreeing. Is there a Jewish angle to her? As to Mandela is there a non-hagiographic book about his upbringing, his formative years by somebody familiar with the culture? From what I get about Mandela there is still way too much fog around him for my taste. As an example these days what is his role as part of those Elders he founded. Were they styled to emulate African tribal Elders’ role in society and if so what exactly was that role in the tribe Mandela came from?

        PHew I am getting really interested in your next book 😉

        BTW that badly written book I’m reading makes it sound as if Anny Ondra was an integral part of the cast of beauties swirling around Hitler in Berlin, but then Guido Knopp, the author, is good at throwing around insinuations (pity the German TV-educated ones)

      • For goodness sake you two get a room this is embarrassing.

        As I have been saying for ages/

      • Be careful there Leah. Don’t forget, “The jealous are troublesome to others, but a torment to themselves.”

        I have no need to “get a room” with Silke, though few ideas intoxicate me as does the thought of sitting with her either here or somewhere in Europe, sipping on a long iced coffee and discussing life and lives. I invited her to join my wife and I in Amsterdam a few weeks ago, but sadly she declined.

        I have made a point of never stepping foot in Germany, Austria or Poland unless there is something I must do in one of those cursed countries that cannot be done elsewhere. So far I have been spared that need, but if there is no alternative, I will indeed visit my friend Silke there one day. Though I disapprove, my Talmudic study-partner the venerable Yossi Sanes is currently holidaying in Berlin, so I shall look forward to hearing his report.

        To be clear, I have nothing against individuals – Jews or Gentiles – who are citizens of these countries if they have done no wrong. In fact, I am hosting a group of 22 journalists, adult educators, teachers, representatives of N.G.O’s and political parties from Germany next week. We shall discuss “Civil Society and Democracy in Israel”.

        I am only revolted by the idea of stepping on ground drenched by so much blood or on grass watered by so many tears.

      • oopps sorry bout that.

        Let me get this straight. You don’t mind Germans, Austrians and Poles, but you won’t set foot on their soil. It was the soil wot did it right ?

      • “The jealous are troublesome to others, but a torment to themselves”

        If you think I am jealous of either of you, you must have even more screws loose than I thought – or even more self-regarding than I’d realised.

  71. I’ve finally reached the conclusion that life is too short.

    There is a God

  72. and we have our thieves and our pimps and murderers too, but we try and catch them and punish them

    You take their ipods off them right ?

  73. by the way it’s try to, not try and …check it out with your wife

  74. there is no point in getting into the history of the issue, history teaches us one thing, that it repeats itself because humans are stupid and can’t learn simple lessons. anthony lowinstein is an idiot, he’s a university educated mass produced moron, a darling of the left wing, abc and green movement, he’s written heaps about israel and assumed to be the expert by many but the fact is he’s just another clown with an agenda and an ego that requires fuelling, if he really had any integrity he would donate all his proceeds to the aboriginals whose land he occupies and whose traditions he and his culture have decimated. he would campaign for intervention and boycotting, he would speak out against human rights and displacement in his own country, but he don’t say a word because it’s trendy amongst his kind to bash israel, the evil country whose standards must be so much higher than every other country on earth.

  75. I can’t fathom the utter ignorance of many “intellectuals” today. Talk about a farce… Israel as a territory has been gifted to Jewish people by God Himself and now we hear groups with fictitious historical ties attempting to claim ownership of it. Lets not beat around the bush – Israel’s struggle has nothing to do with land rights and everything to do with the very survival of the Jewish people. The millions of Jews killed during the last century weren’t killed over land rights… just as attempts by the Arab world (and others) to annihilate the Jewish state today has nothing to do with land rights either.

    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is faithful and will protect Israel “for His Name’s sake”. Israel’s future is secure. I pity any western country who rejects Israel’s cause though… as God said, “I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee…”

    I’ll never forget the conversation I had with an Islamic Taxi driver in Melbourne. He was passionately studying Jewish practices in an attempt to report back to his fellow Islamic brothers the secret to the wealth and protection that seems follow Jewish businesses… in order to destroy Jewish businesses!

    Can’t we in the west see that millions of people around the world, even in our own countries, spend every living breath devising ways to mass murder Jews? If you think this is utter rubbish… ask a Muslim “brother” to open up to you!


  76. Wouldn`t it be nice if Loewenstein did an ancestry search and found nothing but peace-loving Grannies and Pops. Almost to kill for!

  77. As long at the Palestinians keep fighting amongst themselves and the Israelis keep building their anti -Suicide bomber fence higher and longer to keep the barbarians out the better.
    They can keep crying the victim till kingdom cum they will always live in the past whilst Israel moves on.