Ken O’Keefe compares Jewish people to Nazis.

Tonge, O'Keefe, Roberts, Karmi last night.

Tonge, O'Keefe, Roberts, Karmi last night.

Where to begin with last night’s event at Middlesex University’s campus in Hendon, North West London, sponsored by Interpal. It was billed as a discussion on “Is Israel an Apartheid State?“, but became an evening of unadulterated Jew hate.

The atmosphere was threatening. The highly aggressive chairperson Nik Roberts kept insisting on calling security to remove both dissenters and people wanting to film. I could only take limited footage. Two “authorised” people did film, so clips should be arriving on youtube soon.

There was a Jewish contingent of possibly 30 out of some 150 in the audience and much of the rhetoric seemed to be aimed directly at us.

O’Keefe, who was on board the Mavi Marmara, compared Jews to both the Nazis and to the German people whom, he implies, as a whole collaborated with the Nazis. I have transcribed the final part of his speech below. After referring to “the Jewish people” O’Keefe uses “you” or “your” twelve times to personally direct his rhetoric at the Jews in the theatre. He admits his intent was to inflame:

“So if Israel is inherently a racist state, if it is inherently an apartheid state, then I want no part of Israel, it has no place in this world. And it does in its current form, if you want me to use some inflammatory language, in its current form should be destroyed.

Just like the UN in its current form should be destroyed, just like the American empire in its current form should be destroyed, just like the British empire in its current form should be destroyed (next bit inaudible due to applause).

I make no special bones about Jewish people, but the bottom line is this. The Jewish state, that’s not my expression, the Jewish state of Israel is, therefore, acting on behalf of the Jewish people. You, like the Nazis, have now a special obligation.

The decent Germans, the so-called decent Germans of World War Two Nazi Germany, what did they do, what did the decent Germans do when the Nazis came to power and started to institute their policies, what did they do? They didn’t do enough, did they?

Did they do enough to stop the Nazis? No, they didn’t. And what are the Jewish people doing right now? Are you doing enough to stop your racist apartheid genocidal state? (applause)

If you think that you are I beg to differ. You have a special obligation brought upon you just like the Nazis brought upon the decent Germans. Good luck to you because the way of Israel, the way of Palestine is the way of the world. And you can mouth at me all you want, good luck to you, because guess what, you are making enemies of all the people, not just me and the falsely accused anti-Semites.” (huge applause)

Ken O’Keefe edit (audio of transcript)

Ken O’Keefe audio of speech 23/2/2012 (11 minute speech in full)

During the Q&A O’Keefe tried to fend off an accusation that he had embezzled funds from the pro-Palestinian movement. He claimed he never has more than £100 in his bank account and has never owned a property (see clip 1 below). He went on to claim that Israel was responsible for 9/11 (clip 2).

And on suicide bombings he said:

“What the so-called suicide bombings did was force the world by shocking the conscience of humanity to pay attention, and the Palestinians have paid a huge price for some within their ranks carrying out those tactics.”

Ghada Karmi described Israel as a “gangster state” and gave us her definition of who is Jew:

“Is it somebody who practices the Jewish religion? They have never been able to find an agreed position.

At the beginning they talked about ‘a person born of a Jewish mother and/or a person who had been converted according to the orthodox system’. That’s it, nobody else.

Over time, when they saw that they were drying up, they started to make it much more elastic. So, now, anybody who has a Jewish parent or a Jewish grandparent is now Jewish.

Not only that. Among the million immigrants from Soviet Russia how many of you know that 40% of these people are not Jewish? They are not Jews! They go to Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches in Israel, ok? 40%.

Not only that. They brought in the Ethiopian Jews. They went fishing for Jews in Peru. They’ve gone to India. Anything. You know what the main purpose of it is? It’s that they should be non-Arab. Non-Arab. You can be any sort of person. You can call yourself ‘a Jew’. As long as you’re not an Arab, it’s alright.”

She called for the end of a majority Jewish state (Clip 3) and said the Israel treats the Palestinians as “a sub-human species” so when it kills them it “doesn’t have the same impact, as they are already sub-human” and finished off claiming that “if an Ethiopean gives blood to an Israeli blood bank people have objected because they don’t want a transfusion from an Ethiopian”.

Tonge, who describes herself as an “ethnic Christian” (see clip 4), started by telling the audience to beware of the Israel lobby because “once they have decided to go for you, they will go for you. I bear the scars” (clip 5). She finished by saying that “Israel is not going to be there forever” and warned that eventually Israel “will lose its support and then they will reap what they have sown.” (Clip 3)

Who are “they” and what does she imply will happen to them?

Another chilling threat to Jews from this British Parliamentarian.

Clip 1:

Clip 2:

Clip 3:

Clip 4:

Clip 5:

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180 responses to “Ken O’Keefe compares Jewish people to Nazis.

  1. 120 seems very few people. I get the impression they are preaching to the converted. And how sad that their arguments are so poor that they are reduced to lies and slander . Do we know if they have any academic qualifications apart from Dr Tonge being a medical doctor . It does not mean she can reason. How many times have they each been to Israel. Have they seen hospitals with Jewish and Arab doctors and Jewish and Arab patients ? Have they heard of Neve Shalom and Givat Haviva. Would they support these?

  2. I asked O Keefe for his comments on the Face Book Wall ” No one in Gaza wants Ken O Keefe which among other things alleges that he has embezelled funds , made improper approaches to Palestinian women and exaggerated his injuries sustained aboard the Mavi Marvara
    I asked him why literally thousands of people , mainly Arab writing in Arabic and English had seen fit to express their anger at him .
    I asked why he had failed to seek legal remedy for defamation if the accusations were untrue and why after two years , the face book wall was still live . He was also asked whether he had since been back to Gaza to which he replied he could go back when ever he liked and would be welcomed back. Could go back and had been back are vastly different .
    He failed to address my other questions as to failure to seek legal redress and also failed to answer why so many Arabs hated his guts .
    He chose instead to remind us of his GI Joe accomplishments when he overpowered a single Israeli soldier who had been beaten senseless by the Turkish thugs beforehand .
    The audience were hostile to this line of questioning of O Keefes track record even though I stated I was only presenting something they were unaware of and that needed answering .
    This was understandable considering that anyone spouting extreme hate for Israel would have had them cheering in the aisles even if he had been proved to be a serial killer of children such is their total brainwashing .
    However , a strange thing happened on the way out . First two young men approached me ,one Saudi and one a Moroccan . As I expected they had quietly checked out the FB wall and had read the Arabic . We sat down and chatted for the next 30 minutes about I/ P and I came away with the thought that for the first time in ages I had actually engaged with people with whom one could have a rational conversation . I was even more surprised when once outside the building , I was engaged by a group of about 10 Arab and Asian students who while hostile and suspicious were incredulous at the fact that so many people had written about okeefe in Arabic . I said I was just the messenger , and that others had authored the wall .
    Okeefe is a bad person . He is a liar and an inveterate antisemite who claims the Jews carried out 9/11 . However I left the sewer which passed for a debate knowing that I had at least made a lasting difference to the impression of Okeefe for several students .

  3. I keep meeting people who think like these guys. It’s disturbing. Only the other day I had dinner with a Jewish musician who knows Gilad Atzmon…….and he was completely on the Palestinians’ side. I pointed out to him that the Palestinian Arabs have been offered their own state several times since 1948 and turned it down, driven by the Arab League’s 3 Nos….no recognition, no negotiation, and no peace. Firstly, he didn’t know this and secondly he refused to believe what I was saying. In other words, he rejected the information because it contradicted his view of the conflict. I realised I was talking to an irrational bigot and changed the subject back to music.

  4. Seems like the Nazis were on the platform. Odious racists.

  5. I just wonder how Tonge really feels sharing a platform with a 9/11 troofer and trouble maker like O’Keefe. Smacks of desperation

  6. Jonathan Hoffman

    I have lost count of the number of hostile meetings I have been to. This was one of the worst. O’Keefe has been reported to the Police for Incitement. If he is not charged then as far as protecting Jews from racism is concerned, the law is a sham

    http://www.thejc.com/blogs/jonathan-hoffman/open-letter-vice-chancellor-middlesex-university

  7. Israel stands condemned because of it’s crimes, not it’s religion; it is cowardly and lazy to hid behind the old religious red herring. Israelis could be Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim….that is not the issue; the issue is it’s war crimes. If you cannot deal with the issue of Israel’s crimes- give it up; no-one is fooled by the childish and cowardly strategy of diverting to something as irrelevant as it’s religion.

    • richardmillett

      What about Palestinian war crimes? Does O’Keefe compare Muslims to Nazis because of those?

      • lol, palestinian war crimes. i tell you what. next time a palestinian drives through a jewish house in a armour plated bulldozer or cluster bombs a jewish hospital or school with a helicopter gunship with cruise missiles and depleted uranium tipped bullets, get back on here or gtfo and leave those poor poor jews to defend there wall with old AK’s and RPG’s

  8. If Jewish religious leaders do not want to be connected to a state that commits war crimes they need to speak out loud and clear. Yes, i know many Jewish people are against the terrorist state of Israel; it is sad for them that there are not enough of their religious leaders speaking out about Israel’s crimes. If they do not, Judaism will go down in history as a religion that supported a state that used white phosphorus bombs on trapped men, women and children- too many other crimes to name all. Time to distance the religion of Judaism from the horrors of a state that commits crimes against humanity….such as ethnic cleansing.

    • Jonathan Hoffman

      Read some proper history – not anti-Israel propaganda. Only a tiny part of the Arabs who fled in 1948 did so because of attacks by Jewish forces, See Ephtraim Karsh. There was no “ethnic cleansing”. Most left of their own volition. Israel has committed no war crimes. It waited 6 years – with 8000 rockets – before it went into Gaza. And white phosphorous is perfectly legal. All miliraty forces have it. Do learn to think for yourself as opposed to parroting the crap you are fed by PressTV.

    • ‘If Jewish religious leaders do not want to be connected to a state that commits war crimes they need to speak out loud and clear. ‘

      If you or your friends don’t want to be associated with historical and modern Palestinian and other Arab Muslim and Christian resistance to Jews existing in the land in above the tiny numbers imperial Christian and Islamic apartheid decreed, you’d better speak up loud and clear.

    • since your ancestors threw out their own culture overnight to worship a dead Jew on a stick, that makes the rest of us arch angels so kiss my foot

    • any numbers on how many died from the alleged use of wp?

      or are you just gonna throw out crap like tonge did with that 70 bil number

      and it isnt ethnic cleansing…its population exchange

      how many jews are left in arab countries?

  9. Ken O’Keeefe…or KOK, as he is also known.

  10. Some people just do not help the Palestinian cause and they should just shut the f*** up.

    • A conspicuous silence on O’Keefe’s and Tong’s threatening, if not genocidalist, talk. You really are contemptible, m.h.

    • Can’t you see that O’Keefe is saying nothing different to all those others who support this so called Palestinian cause? It’s just that you can identify him because he doesn’t wear a veneer of niceness. Don’t be fooled by Tonge – she is the vilest racist on the platform. She comes across as mild and learned, but nothing she says has foundation other than fantasy to back the one certainty in her life – she hates Jews with such an illogical passion that the only way a nice western lady can express that is to promote the fantasy of Isreal as an Aoartheid state when she ignores the real Apartheid state of Jordan where no Arab whose ancestors were born in the Palestinian Mandated territory has any civil rights or citizenship – to the third generation – who else in history looked that far back to identify a people? She throws onto Israel all the acts of the fascist Jordanian regime to ease her comfort in her Jew hatred. Beware of this wolf in sheeps clothing. It is always easier to deal with the obvious, the obscure can fool you completely. O’Keefe will be question by the police, but Tonge gets a free ride to go to the next venue, sit next to other Jew haters and extoll her rubbish with an illogical venomous passion.

  11. Richard Millet, just “war crimes” by Palestinians are you talking about? Israel occupies, steals land and water, imprisons without trial and kills with impunity the people it occupies- NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. If a militarily strong Palestine were occupying an Israel without even an army ( the opposite of what is happening) I would condemn Palestine. Because, unlike you, I judge human beings by their actions, not by their race or religion.

    • Palestinian and other Arab Muslims and Christians have resisted Jews’ existing in the land in above the tiny numbers imperial Christian and Islamic apartheid decreed since the birth of their modern national consciousness.

      The Jews concerned have little choice but to resist back.

    • ‘NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.’

      If it were the other way around, the Jews would have been expelled or eliminated long ago.

    • ‘NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND’

      O’Keefe’s ‘way around’ is elimination- or genocidalist:

      ‘I want no part of Israel, it has no place in this world’

      • And the way round for Interpal, PSC et al is the genocide of all Jews as espoused by Hamas that proxy of Iran a state working toward the chaos that will bring in the 12th Imam to govern the world over the dead bodies of Jews. Just think through Karmi’s description of what is a Jew and her response to the question about the Holy Land being Jewish. Like Tonge, but for other reasons, this woman wants the world free of Jews.

  12. http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html

    Above the link to the Geneva Conventions…..the rubbish about the use of white phosphorus by Jonathan Hoffman…the use of this type of chemical weapon in DENSELY POPULATED CIVILIAN AREAS is a war crime.

  13. interesting – Wikipedia says the Turks built a FENCE around Famagusta after they had taken it by force. It seems that what once was a thriving city has become a ghost town under Turkish rule.

    Now I wonder which part of Cyprus our latest Gert-aound-alike guest feels allegiance to.

  14. The bottom line is that states and people should be judged by their actions and the race, colour and religion is irrelevant. If Palestinians were Jews and the Israelis Muslim and Christian would the Israeli supporters here still support Israel?

    • ‘If Palestinians were Jews and the Israelis Muslim and Christian would the Israeli supporters here still support Israel?’

      They were, once: and their imperial Christian and Islamic apartheid kept Jews to a tiny, highly discriminated against minority.

    • Actually the bottom line is that you are scum and appear to have taken a wrong turn coming here . I think you meant to press MPAC or maybe Palestine Solidarity Campaign . Fuck off back to where you belong

    • Palestinians were once also comprised of Jews. Only these Jews, those that weren’t killed by the arabs, integrated into other countries instead of languishing in camps and failing to give their children a future.

  15. My take on it to show up in full Nazi regalia and scream for the extermination of all Jews everywhere. I only give it 50/50 the hosts of a meeting like that would object. The odds increase to 4 in 5 w/o the uniform.

  16. I saw Ben White twittering this beforehand, but he seems to have kept a conspicuous distance. Karmi he has to make nice with; KOK (!) may be a liability.

  17. Darran Dunford

    Well done brother Ken, as always you beat them down with truth, love you man.

  18. Has anyone told Ghada Karmi that between one-third and half the entire population of Israel is made up of Jews from Arab lands and their descendants? Where is her respect for their rights?

  19. Richard, have just stumbled upon a site called The Truth Seeker, it seems to be a site where Gilad Atzmon is king among, well I was going to say men but after looking at this disgusting site, I think liars and lunatics would be more apt!

  20. Thanks for sharing this information that shows the hatred at a visceral level. I will definitely report this at my blog. Is this where American Progressives are headed? Sometime it seems we are well on the way, as the One State Conference at Harvard approaches.

    http://onestateconference.org/

  21. Chilling, racist bullying from Ken O’Keefe.

    Middlesex was not the first time he aired those sentiments: http://www.oyvagoy.com/2011/01/15/a-new-low-from-ken-okeefe/

    The fact so many Palestinian campaigners are embarrassed by him speaks volumes. And actually, he has fallen out with a lot of them:

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/12/krazy-ken-okeefe-unmasked-by-fellow.html

    O’Keefe gave a lengthy interview to Haaretz a few years ago. Perhaps unintentionally, he gave away his motiviations. In short, he wants to be a hero. First he became a US Marine to be a hero, but had a run-in with a superior and it all went wrong. So he left, burnt his US passport and became a fanatical anti-Israel activist. But the ‘hero’ need never left him. He recalls the first time he went to Gaza and the reception he got. “There was excitement like we had just won the World Cup. Tens of thousands of people were there. For one day there was total euphoria. They looked at us like we were heroes.”

    What a fake.

    • There is too much fuss on here over this nobody and nonentity. He is far from being a threat to Israel and the Jewish people.He is a caricature. I’m reminded of another cartoon character though, Julius Streicher, who had the opportunity to act out his pathology. O’Keefe is all bluster and does not have any power. Ignore him, don’t martyr him.

  22. Rich
    You appear to have had a troll infestation . Either from Thursday nights middlesex uni or direct from the sewer itself . Either way why not delete . It’s bad enough hearing it at these hate fests . No need to read it here . You are simply giving air time to sick and twisted racist scum .

    • richardmillett

      Yes, but for once they are outnumbered here. We can handle it. Maybe they will learn not to be so racist.

    • I am looking forward to Daniel having his say, if he should deem our newcomers worthy of attention that is.

      Since today is Saturday we have to bite our nails at a minimum till tonight in order to find out whether Daniel judges them to be good pro-Israel Hasbara.

  23. It seems the lunatics on the panel have got the keys to the asylum.

    What vile hate filled anti-semites they are. These days most Universities have become socialist cesspits of hate. The ‘useful idiots’ on the panel are the real aggressors. Shame on Middlesex University for allowing such a ridiculous forum to take place.

    • which makes me wonder – is anything known how much the uni charges for the use of the room – if it does at all.

      And if it doesn’t who pays for it?

      • richardmillett

        It’s free! We pay for it. The British taxpayer.

      • and what qualification must I have to apply successfully?

        when for example I wanted to use a German village hall for free I had to apply for it on behalf of the local sports club, as myself I wouldn’t have qualified.

  24. Adonai has a plan and a purpose for Israel and those who dare to stand in His way will reap the consequences of angering Him as He quite clearly points out in the Scriptures. It’s time for Christians who understand Israel’s unique standing with The Lord to come together alongside the Jewish people in Israeli as well as outside of the Land of Israel.

    • Christine; Keep religion and God out of this. It is the worst possible argument for Israel’s existence and will only create enemies in a world that is largely rational and secular. Israel has a legal and historical right to exist mandated by the League of Nations and the UN, and that should be the argument, not a land title deed given by God 3000 years ago. The Muslims have exactly the same argument, that the Waqf authorises their ownership of the land they once conquered. Both positions are deranged and potentially catastrophic. The religious Jews in Israel believe this twaddle and are waiting for the Messiah and redemption, and the Shiites in Iran are anticipating their Mahdi. Both groups have the insane and destructive view that if an apocalypse, a conflagration, a holocaust is necessary to bring the redemption, then so be it. This whole mindset is inimical to freedom and justice, and is utterly without love, compassion and respect for life.

      • roger – ‘Christine; Keep religion and God out of this. It is the worst possible argument for Israel’s existence and will only create enemies in a world that is largely rational and secular.’

        Yes. I very much agree. Except that I don’t think that ‘the world that is largely rational and secular’. If you had said the the world’s intelligensia is largley rational and secular, I would agree.

        However, basing any argument of claims that ‘The Sky Pixie gave Israel to the people of Israel’ is just ludicrous for Jewish atheists, many of whom go out of their way to protect Israel as best they can.

  25. The point is that a university is a place for transition from childhood dependency into adulthood independence, a place where the chancellor, professors and tutors have an obligation to educate, to guide students through this phase from one stage of life to the next so that they can embrace citizenship in a mature, well-informed and balanced way. It is right that universities have societies in which students can participate as a microcosm of the real world. At the same time the Chancellor and his/her staff have a duty to oversee how these societies function in respect to democratic function, format and balance, as this is the practice field for citizenship. This so called debate at Middlesex University Hendon campus demonstrated that the university authorities take no interest or responsibility for how this particular society functions.

    From its speaker list to the chairing to the security, the entire procedure was undemocratic and biased. The invited speakers all came from the same standpoint so there was no balance and hence it was not a debate, but a hatefest. The chair behaved like a tinpot dictator who had no knowledge of the law at best or at least ignored it with that certain bravado dictators carry, firstly in not allowing the freedom to photograph, and secondly for continually threatening to expel those being racially abused by the speakers (the evidence is there for the reckoning on Richard’s recorder as transcribed above) rather than calling the police once they uttered their call to racial hatred and enticement to murder.

    So here we have a university wherebspeakers are invited to an event over which the authorities take no responsibility. It’s time they did and are held to account if found to be remiss. So if the police find that any one of these speakers committed a crime under UK law (yes the same UK one of speakers was calling to destroy) let us hope that the Chancellor of Middlesex University is personally forced to take stock of how that campus functions, and if not then he/she should be dismissed as failing to provide a proper forum for education.

    It is shocking that a man known to have been dismissed dishonourably from the US army, who self admitted having been interrogated by the police who took away no less than 9, yes nine hard drives, should be invited to rant his vile hatred to naive students who aplauded him whilst asking “what’s a Zionist”! It is outrageous that Ghada Karmi could state clearly that it is right that the Jews lose their right to their homeland because of the natural progression of Islam, alluding to the passage of the coming of the 12th Imam when the entire world will be governed as a caliphate. That was her gripe about Israel, that it is a constant thorn in the side of Islamic dominance. Hence her cry for the right of return of third generation people who refuse to integrate into their country of birth as millions of Jewish refugees from Arab lands have done, now as Israelis, Britons, Frenchmen and so on. But the worst by far is that a Baroness of the Realm can sit side by side with these people and applaud their cause whilst she claims with a straight face that she is not an Anti-Semite. Well Jenny Tonge may be as well you are not as you claim an Anti-Semite, but you sure as hell are a Jew hater!

    It is further imperative that no less than the Prime Minister be brought into the picture as it is also government duty to oversee how the universities are run and to make sure that members of our Government are not allowed to cosy up to those committing treason in calling for the destruction of the UK. It is all too clear from this ill begotten “debate” that this government like the last has no idea that our universities here in the UK are being used to propagate a new genocide and that if they do not act promptly our leaders will be culpable in that genocide.

    And yes, it’s that serious!

  26. Three heroes: Harvey, Jonathan and Richard.
    Do many Israelis know of your amazing work?
    Do many of our MPs?

  27. As a former student at this “institution” I am outraged they have hosted such an anti-Semitic meeting. No effort to just call it it “anti-Zionist” or “anti-Israel” this guy is a pure Jew-hater.

    • As your alma mata you need to register your objection with the University authorities and take a stand to get this culturing of race hated ended.

  28. Ariadne
    Regret we are unable to disclose this information on open forum . However the three of us are usually to be found at the Whitehouse kosher restaurant in Hendon for a post match debriefing where we would be most happy to inform you of our work with Mossad ,CIA and MI5 ( ok I made up the MI5 bit . Unfortunately Richard was unable to be there this time as he was otherwise occupied although there is some unkind talk that his absence was due to it being his turn to get the drinks in .
    On a serious note it is a little difficult attending these sort of meetings . You could almost cut the hate filled atmosphere with a knife . I’m pretty sure that the EDL – equivalent to Thursdays panel and audience- would not be allowed to stage a meeting in such a public arena in order to demonise Muslims in this manner . But it would appear that Jews are fair game .
    Okeefe has questions to answer which he studiously avoids . He is full of bravado and self importance and an inveterate narcissist including the little face painting of a tear drop suggesting he’s a bad boy to other prisoners .
    He’s been a con and now it would appear that according to his many enemies in the Palestinian movement he is an actual con .
    Great stuff Ken . Here’s to you returning to Gaza very soon . That way we won’t have to listen to your racist abuse any time soon if indeed ever again – if you get my drift !

    • I’m pretty sure that the EDL – equivalent to Thursdays panel and audience- would not be allowed to stage a meeting in such a public arena in order to demonise Muslims in this manner .

      thanks Harvey – am I right to guess it wouldn’t have to be the EDL. Somebody on the panel who would be on record as prone to quote the Pope’s quote from the Regensburg address would also not be welcomed.

      Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.[5]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg_lecture

      It was said originally in 1391 by a Byzantine emperor.

    • Thank you, Harvey. That’s a great response. I am sure about the hate and I find it amazing that you undergo such trials so persistently.

      These people must be seething masses of self-hatred to project so much on to Jews. Tonge comes across as demented. And of course they can be mad and also evil.

    • “I’m pretty sure that the EDL – equivalent to Thursdays panel and audience- would not be allowed to stage a meeting in such a public arena in order to demonise Muslims in this manner . But it would appear that Jews are fair game .”

      I’d like to see the EDL go along and break up meetings like this. When journalists were mis-representing EDL, they put a fatwa out on the journalists and photographers. That really shook up the liars in the media. Suddenly they realised they might have to show the English working-class some of the respect and fear they show to muslims.

      EDL have broken up meetings of the SWP and UAF. Not because the EDL are intrinsically opposed to such groups, but because those groups were claiming they were going to destroy EDL, with physical violence if necessary.

      But you are right. When I read about this hate-fest at Middlesex, my immediate thought was that EDL would not even be allowed to book a room to hold such a meeting.

      • Until the EDL cleans up its act and ‘turns out’ any supporters/connections with the BNP, might I suggest keeping distance between yourself and them.

      • Thanks for your concern “Clap Hammer”. But I’m an adult and I’m able to think for myself. One way or another, I hope (and believe) that the EDL will lead to the destruction of the BNP.

        Whilst we have a political system that only permits the interchangeable LibLabCon alliance as a pretence at democracy, then many parties are going to be a distortion of the interests of those who support them. I’m fairly sure that there are people in the BNP who are not racists. But the best way to destroy English nationalism is to make sure it is forever associated with racism. My own view on the BNP is that it is run by MI5, as part of the UK governments attempts to quash English nationalism (Scottish nationalism = good; English nationalism = bad; Two legs = good; Four legs = bad).

        Perhaps when the EDL are marching into PSC meetings and smashing them up, you’ll have cause to thank the EDL for doing what the various jewish and Israeli lobbying organisations cannot do.

    • “Unfortunately Richard was unable to be there this time as he was otherwise occupied….”

      Surely, ‘otherwise disputed…’? ;)

      • Hi Chas
        ” occupied ” Freudian slip . I heard the word used about 100 times during the evening . No wonder those kids are so indoctrinated . Either that or occupied as in toilet having been in one for the best part of three hours

  29. @ Roger – I don’t know your background; perhaps your icon of choice is trying to tell us something…?

    What a silly billy you are! You show yourself up by getting the religious beliefs mixed up – Jews don’t believe in a an apocalypse that would bring on the redemption – try next door!

    It was precisely the Jews’ attachment to their religion and the Land of Israel that sustained them as a people and bonded them as a nation throughout their long, blood-soaked history like no other people. The Zionist enterprise would not have been successful in any other land, only in their own historical homeland, the country of their daily prayers and dreams.

    The British had offered Uganda for a Jewish home which was rejected overwhelmingly, against Herzel’s wishes, who was a secular Jew. The Nazis toyed for a while with the Madagascar Plan, before deciding on the Final Solution – an idea they got from the Poles who planned to expel 3 million Polish Jews to the island off the African coast. But they ran out of time because the war intervened. Stalin too, offered the autonomous Jewish republic of Birobidjan on the Chinese border. This experiment also failed as there was no attachment to the land and their heart was not in it.

    Perhaps Roger ought to stop making profound statements about a people and a religion he knows little about.

    • There was also this plan to transport Jews to Suriname (a former colony of the Netherlands).

    • Rubin: There is nowhere less safe for a Jew than Israel.

      • Really Roger? Why is it that the jewish schools in Britain need so much physical protection then? Even as a non-jew, I felt safer travelling around Israel than I have felt anywhere else in the world (and I never expected that).

      • The very same bus..the 032…. I used last year to travel from Eilat to Mitzpe Ramon was attacked a few months ago resulting in a number of deaths and many injured. I don’t call that safe.

      • Roger, so do you call being blown up by a bomb in Kensington London safe?

      • Firstly, I should say that I have never felt unsafe in Israel and i was hiking last year next to the Egyptian border in the Eilat mountains…alone. But I’m a reckless live in the moment type. And it was just magnificent. The only places I felt unsafe were on the Temple Mount during an argument with the Al Aqsa guardian and walking the high street in Hebron. Oh and the bullet proof bus from Kiryat Arba to Jerusalem.
        Israel is not just surrounded by countries that want to annihilate it but it has 1.5 million Arabs living within its borders that could in theory rise up against it with their palestinian brothers……and at the end of the day they identify with them .and not the Jewish state. Since Israel’s foundation, 1000s of Jews have been killed there.Without the security measures there it would be a bloodbath. What’s safe about that? It could be incinerated in a year’s time by Iranian nukes.
        Kensington is hardly a fair comparison. Jews on the whole live safely and peacefully in Western countries, where there are not too many Muslims around. I live in Switzerland, and the Jews I know here…both secular and religious have a good comfortable safe and peaceful life which is considerably safer and less stressful than life in israel. Antisemitic behaviour is most evident in those parts of Europe with high density Muslim populations like Paris and Amsterdam. The choice of Israel as a homeland to return to has proved to be a massive liability and very high risk. Uganda would have been a nice option, and Madagascar. That was the choice facing Herzl….To be close to a mythical heritage and life with the accompanying conflict and all the blood spilling,… or a peaceful existence in a land that’s still a blessing but unconnected to the ancient mythical promise. What I’m saying is that the Jewish people’s attachment to the Holy Land has been a problematic and bloody mess and is potentially disastrous.
        And Rubin….my icon is a rock mouse on Masada.

  30. It may interest some of the readers here. As a boy in the ghetto in Poland, there was a song in Yiddish/Polish that did the rounds at the time about our ‘African homeland’. I will only quote one of the stanzas which is rather significant and ironic.

    Oy, Madagascar.
    Coconut and bamboo trees,
    a land that’s half wild.
    The tribes there are savage,
    so I may just find it better.
    Because where there’s culture,
    there’s conflict and strife…!

  31. http://sarahhonig.com/2012/02/24/another-tack-lessons-from-the-floating-coffin-another-tack-lessons-from-the-floating-coffin/

    “…The entire world seemed united in signaling Jews how utterly unwanted they were anywhere….”

    February 23 1942 the Struma, that tin can carrying 800 Jewish refugees from genocidal Europe was towed out of Turkish waters at the behest of the British and left there as a death trap to exterminate the 800.  Only one survived, the rest died either in an explosion or as a result of the USSR torpedoing the tin can of misplaced hope of survival.  

    February 23 2012 we heard on a British University campus backed by a Baroness of the Realm, unhindered in her quest by Government, the renewed call for the destruction of the Jews, a renewed call for  genocide of the Jewish people.  Anything changed in 70 years? The British are still romanced by the Arabs; faced with a world war the British backed by the EU and USA are ignoring the existential Iranian threat of genocide of the Jews as they ignored the decision of the Nazis to enact the Final Solution; Anything changed in three generations since the worst mark in world history ever?  It certainly doesn’t feel like it.

    • Sharon, I share your gloom. When one considers just how much reportage comes out of Israel, there is no excuse (other than jew-hatred) to explain the failure of the media to provide any kind of historical context (other than the holocaust) for the existence of Israel. I believe this is entirely deliberate on the part of the media, particularly the BBC. I used to be one of those Israel-hating lefties, to my shame. The whole anti-israel/anti-zionist thing thrives on the ignorance of the people involved (well, that and them channelling — maybe subconsciously — hundreds of years of european and muslim jew-hatred). It’s my belief that the liberal-left journalists don’t want the history of jews in Palestine, the history of Palestine, and the history of Israel to come out. The “suffering of the Palestinians” is another means by which they drum up support for muslims in the west and internationally.

      • James – two puzzles govern my life. The first is how the Holocaust actually happened, a first world sophisticated nation that contrived an enterprise whose sole activity was extermination of certain people, an enterprise that was advertised, written about and catalogued and yet the world with its media and governmental links with Germany failed to notice until the job was almost done. The second is this weird alliance between so called left-liberals and extreme right Islam. Twice in my living memory left wing liberals have consciously jumped into bed with right wing fascist tyrannical groups. Would these lefties have jumped into bed with the KKK? Certainly not. Pol Pot – certainly not. So what is the connection with the two instances and the liberal lefties?

        James can you explain what took you into such a group and what caused you to change your views?

      • I was brought up in a trotskyist household. I studied philosophy and politics at university. I went along with the standard liberal-left line in the UK that Israel was to blame for “the problems in the middle east”. I still have friends who think that. They still read The Guardian.

        The turning point for me came a few years back, and it came from studying islam. Despite repeated shocked disbelief as I was learning about islam, I could not deny that the truth of what I was learning (though I tried and tried at first). A by-product of this was that I ended up learning about the pre-WW2 history of the land of Israel.

        So, my hope is that as more and more of us in the west learn about Israel, we will also learn about and understand the situation in which Israel finds itself. I see the liberal media as being profoundly complicit in the jew-hatred directed towards Israel. Not only have we not been provided with the historical context of the formation of Israel, we haven’t been informed about the history of the spread of islam. I realise that for many left-liberal jews, they do not want to see muslims suffer. I don’t want to seem muslims hurt, but I want them to face the same shame about islam as most ex-christians feel about christianity, or many British people feel about the empire, or many Americans feel about the slave-trade, or Germans feel about the Nazis. Muslims need to be made to face up to the history of their religion and recognise it is a shameful history.

        As for the concepts of Left versus Right, they are truly not useful. Contemporary Chinese Communist capitalism should make that abundantly clear to any ideological dinosaurs. The liberal-left such as the American Democrats really didn’t have much trouble supporting the slavery of black people and the KKK. http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/oped/owens/02/racism.html

        You might say I’m contradictory for rejecting the terms of Left versus Right then talking about “the liberal left”. Alas, I have to use the terms because that is all we have. In this context one has to think of the knowing use of such terms as like Wittgenstein’s ladder: when we get to where the ladder takes us, we can throw it away as no longer needed. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein/#Nat1

        The UN Declaration of Human Rights is a profound marker in terms of civilisation. I’m more interested in upholding that than in the politics of Left versus Right. But the muslim world has rejected the UN Declaration, offering instead the Cairo Declaration, which puts sharia law above all human rights. We can divide the world into those who support universal human rights and those who reject them. That is a far better ground on which to judge politics than Left versus Right.

        BTW Richard, email me if you are banned from any events, and I will go along and film them for you, and provide you with the video via Dropbox or some such service.

      • Hi James,

        Welcome aboard. I found your comment very interesting, beginning with your growing up in a ” trotskyist household” – and my mind was already boggling as I asked myself what this means. Truthfully, I never knew such things exist.

        I assume you all had round spectacles, Dad had a little beard and Mum never bought an ice-axe, but what else? What does Trostskist cuisine consist of? I’m guessing vegetarian and bland, but I could be wrong.

        Please tell us more!

      • James, I still think most ordinary Democrats would balk if the party declared support of KKK in the current world, although I take your point about the left’s general support of tyranny. It’s like the two meet at the back of a circle both trying to deny a partnership. I do agree with you re labels. I am often called right wing, but of course it is not I who wears the wing! Sometimes common reference has to be used to make a point though. For me there is only one issue and that is the Islamic imperialist genocidal attack on the world. It’s bigger than any individual group or opinion and unless people like yourself who has taken the time to study, get involved in a proactive way we are all doomed. Ask Richard to put us in touch and I can explain more.

  32. Pingback: Letting Their True Feelings Out : Israellycool

  33. Roger
    ” no place less safe for a Jew to be than Israel ”
    Really ! In that case , it would be better to die with your held high, than to live as an unter menschen .
    But youre wrong in any case .

  34. Claphammer
    My mention of EDL /BNP was only as a reference to the panel and those in the audience . All would see themselves as humanitarian activists for Palestine . In reality the methods used to control the independent reporting and the foul racist abuse that we were privy to throughout the evening was no different from a Nazi rally . These people are fascists and reactionaries . The police should investigate and prosecute the university for allowing it to take place .
    Tonge bleats that she bears the scars of Zionists attacks on her . One can only hope that we added a little extra for good measure .

  35. Roger: Nevertheless, Israel is where I shall end up. The situation is similar to what it was 70 years ago or so, insofar as a callous and heartless world is again ditching us in favour of the tyrant. And yet, things are not quite the same in one respect; the Jews now have a flag, a country with a powerful army and air force. They will not go quietly this time – Never Again!
    If only the Six-Million could look down and see….

  36. I have described at least once on this excellent blog by boyhood meeting, with a not unattractive Irish lady of my age in Hyde Park Corner more than three decades ago. Though our discussion was primarily focused on the Arab-Israeli conflict, it also touched on other subjects and as might be expected for two curious enthusiastic youngsters there was that usual measure of unintended, but far from unpleasant chemistry the existence of which many readers will recall from such encounters. The lass had light hair and bluish eyes and this writer weighed considerably less than he does today (especially after over-partaking of the exceptional cuisine of the Ramada Neyanya this Shabbat).

    At some point in the conversation the topic of either Nazism or the Holocaust, or both arose and my new acquaintance expressed her opinion that “Hitler didn’t kill enough..” Such things rarely happen, but I was left quite wordless. After several seconds for recuperation I explained that the dialogue could not continue. Let her think she’s won the argument, but I shall not lend even the slightest legitimacy to such a “viewpoint” by in any way discussing it. Even to conclusively refute it would be to have given it too much credence.

    I have had similar incidents including the occasion a few years ago when a small Presbyterian group visited us one evening. While sipping tea, their priest told me that they had been to Ya’ad Vashem (Holocaust Museum) that day and on seeing the pictures, he couldn’t help recalling similar images that he had seen of the Israeli “occupation”. I seriously considered just kicking the anti-Semite out of my house, but chose the more moderate path of tearing the ill-fated man of the cloth to pieces. He apologized and took back what he had said, though I still wasn’t sure whether I had not betrayed the memory of a few grams of ash somewhere under the ground of Auschwitz, that was once my great-grandfather.

    My point is that while I do believe passionately in the freedom of speech I do not believe that I have to converse with everyone or even relate to every opinion. Calling Israel an Apartheid state is idiotic, but if someone expresses that view and I think that he is genuinely mistaken, I might try to set him right. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is a vicious immoral form of Holocaust denial, and whoever makes such a statement does not deserve to be related to in a civilized manner by human beings – Jews or Gentiles.

    While I commend Richard for providing a vital service by educating as to the existence of such monsters, I have no intention of talking to them. If they want to destroy us, let them pack their debris and come out to join the Hamas or the Hezbollah in the glorious armed struggle. Let them put their money where their mouth is.

    Still on the subject of money, I believe that I am not the only Zionist here who, if given the chance, would make sure that the purchase of a return fare would be unnecessary – in such an eventuality.

    • You’ve disappointed me with that story .
      I thought the punchline would be that you had agreed with her , booked a room at the Cumberland which is just across the road and then left her with the immortal words ”
      Guess what . you’ve ……..by a Jew !
      Now that would have been impressive
      ( apologies to Silke and Sharon for overtly sexist remarks ” Just a one off and out of character .So I’m told

      • Harvey

        yes it is a sexist and insulting to men remark

        I hope that you cherish your own body enough to not exchange body fluids just to make a point.

        And come to think of it I have “proof” that you don’t: Some years ago a thesis from a student from an Israeli university made the net-rounds in which the woman had “proved” conclusively that IDF-soldiers refrained from raping “Palestinian” women because of racism.

        Her conclusion was of course as nonsensical as imaginable but I cherish the study because it “proved” that Israel’s soldiers don’t do rape, which I in the interest of all women caught up in conflict can’t praise enough.

      • booking a room and making her foot the bill while avoiding any “action” would be more to my taste.

      • Truthfully, and this is only with the perspective that many years have afforded me. I still prefer Harvey’s epilogue, but as I was wearing a skull-cap and Tzitzit (not to mention other characteristic Jewish features) , I hardly think anyone would have been too surprised as I revealed my Jewishness.

        In reply to Silke’s criticism, there are few sacrifices I would not make for a cause in which I truly believe, and the “exchange of body fluids” with an attractive anti-Semite does not sound overly-exorbitant. I suppose we could make the tale less sexist by using an active rather than passive voice and telling the unfortunate victim, “Guess what . You’ve just ……..a Jew!”

        I’m flattered by Silke’s absurd implication that my “avoiding any action” would be such a gruesome punishment for that Jew hating utterance.The least said about that one the better.

        Finally, still with romance, Ruben will be interested to hear that I am to attend a memorial say at Yad Va’Shem tomorrow for Doctor Solomon Schonfield.To that end I appear to have landed a hot blind date with a lady of his generation, who was in the Kinder Transport, and is the grandmother of one of my 9th graders.

        She will identify me because of my dustman’s hat and I’ll recognize her because she hobbles.

  37. Gosh you are incorrigible Silke . There was me thinking that it was sexist towards women and you were only concerned about the damage done to men and in particular Daniel . Either way I unreservedly withdraw my remark , said part in jest and part anger at the womans remark to Daniel uttered so many years ago .

  38. I too, used to go with my pals on a Sunday afternoon to Speakers’ Corner. This was in the late 40′s and 50′s but I cannot boast of any conquests or amorous encounters. Sunbathing in the Serpentine on a Saturday was the place for that! You were well-advised though to keep clear of Rotten Row; you would meet the wrong sort of girl there…!

    Daniel must refer to the late 70′s or early 80′s when I no longer went to Hyde Park, so we could not have crossed paths. By that time, the fun had gone out of Speakers Corner; the atmosphere had become threatening as the souk mentality reached the streets of London, abetted by their leftist apologists. It used to be a tourist attraction that didn’t exist elsewhere else. The English sense of humour is no more, as well as the barracking and jeering, all in good fun. What replaced it was much more serious with physical threats, if the views expressed were not to their liking. It now warranted a police presence where there was none before.

    Speakers Corner had been an old English institution and excercise in free speech; you could say what you wanted in good jest, which alas is no more. It is a mirror reflection on what is happening to the country at large. Freedom of speech is now one sided because of the threat of intimidation and violence.

  39. Rubin
    I used to go in the mid 70s . It was a fun place back then with an amazing diversity of speaker from gay rights to Irish Republicans aka Sinn Fein . Certainly not the assorted loons you see today .
    Herut had a stand there . There was a charismatic Scottish Jew Ronnie Jacobs who spoke every Sunday . He was loud and proud and very right wing . He was brilliant with hecklers who could never land a blow on him and used to retire to lick their wounds .
    It’s strange that we talk about Speakers Corner now . By coincidence I saw Ronnie last Thursday in a greasy spoon in Colindale while I was waiting for my car to be serviced .
    I was saddened to see this once fearless virile firebrand of a man now a rheumy eyed man staring vacantly into space . We had a brief conversation and he vaguely remembered it but it was not the same man I remembered from all those years ago . Sadly the passage of time withers some more than others . I prefer to remember him as the man from Speakers Corner all those years ago .

    • I would go there quite regularly during those years and often spoke on the Herut stand. I was very young, but enjoyed the “rush” tremendously.

      Speakers’ Corner on a Sunday afternoon was also where I overcame my stammer.

  40. Daniel
    As soon as you mentioned Rabbi Schonfeld, Yad VaShem and your date with a Kindertransport ‘girl’ the penny dropped. It is the 100th anniversary of his birth.

    You will no doubt tell your students of this honour. You may also want to read out an article to them that I wrote about the Rabbi five years ago, in the AJR Journal. Go into Google and Rabbi Dr Solomon Schonfeld and scroll down to Bending the Rules, the Unsung Hero, Rabbi Solomon Schonfeld.

    • I’m in Yad Va’Shem and there are three newspaper items on the main notice board with your article in the center.

      • which proves that “we” are people of excellent judgment and taste to have hung on once we had discovered this excellent blog?

        Good to know and no, this is no attempt at irony. I am just glad Richard is getting the recognition he deserves.

      • Sorry for being unclear. The above comment was directed at Rubin.

        The memorial day commemorating the 100th year to the birth of Rabbi Solomon Schonfeld was originally planned to take place in the synagogue of Yad Va’Shem, but the response was so overwhelming that it was moved to the main auditorium where there was standing room only.

        Though I knew the Rabbi a little in his later years I can offer nothing that compares to Rubin’s expertise. The Rabbi saved many thousands of Jews – especially children – during the Holocaust at a time when most people were taking care of their own lives and “minding their own businesses”.

        I refer all readers to the excellent article:

        http://www.ajr.org.uk/index.cfm/section.journal/issue.Dec07/article=971

  41. We see how how Islam eradicated the Coptic language in Egypt thus Islamifying that country and how it runs an Apartheid state in Bangladesh, slowly eradicating Hindi  and repalcing it with Islam. This is the plan for what they call Palestine except the Jews will not lie down and wag the collective tail.  That is why they use replacement theory to convince the world that they are the victims and the Jew the imperialists.  But let’s see, are Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Persia, Malaysia etc Jewish or Islamic states when Pakistan and Bangladesh were once Hindu, Egypt Christian, Persia Zoroastrian and Malaysia Buddhist?  Do these facts not serve to prove who is the imperialist and who simply will not be conquered? 

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/the_jihad_against_bengali.html

    excerpt:

    The Jihad against Bengali

    Today, Hindus in Bangladesh and throughout the Indian subcontinent are reluctant to make demands in a majority Muslim country.  They typically remain silent about grievances, as they have little hope of equitable resolutions under Muslim control.  Their activities are limited, and they regularly face discrimination.  They are accountable to their Muslim masters, have fewer rights, and their movements are restricted.  It is not uncommon for a Muslim to stop and question a Hindu in transit, inquire of his travel plans, and demand to see his documents as well as the money he is carrying, which can be extorted with impunity.

  42. Thanks for opening my eyes , never heard of these people until now , followed a link from a Israeli site .
    Could someone please answer the question asked above :
    ” Have they heard of Neve Shalom and Givat Haviva. Would they support these? ”
    I am a Left wing Israeli and after hearing what these people had to say about us I am even more convinced that the only solution is a Two State solution , I dont think that they are interested in peace , do they ever talk about us living together ?

    • Two states of course being Israel with Jordan as Palestine. However, unless Islam is taken seriously and dealt with accordingly there will be no peace anywhere in the world. One only has to notice what kind of governance is replacing the old Arab tyrants across North Africa and in the ME to understand that a discussion about two states is simplification of the problem and really has nothing to do with the greater scheme of things. Certainly hiding behind a wing – left or right – will ring to solutions either.

  43. “Israeli” has discovered that the Palestinians want to destroy us and drive us into the sea and so he (or she) has come to the conclusion that our best course of action would be to give them suitable conditions from which to endeavor and do so, namely a sovereign state, full control of imports (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) etc.

    If our non-Jewish readers or any Martians who have just landed think that this is a Jewish joke, be assured that “Israeli” is quite earnest. Furthermore, he or she represents a significant number of my well-meaning countrymen – perhaps a majority.

    Thank G-d that up until now we have always had an even more idiotic Palestinian leadership adamantly rejecting even our most suicidal of offers.

    Welcome to the blog – Israeli. You’re just what we need!

  44. ” Two states of course being Israel with Jordan as Palestine. ”

    No Sharon, Two States as here :

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/about/aims/

    • Israeli, you are delusional. Take a look at this http://gm2j.com/main/
      It’s serious and it’s imminent! Daniel is quite right, most Israelis don’t know what’s happening in their own back yard. Wake up – there is another genocide coming our way – look beyond your nose, or don’t you care to be Jewish and alive! You remind me of the spoilt princesses powdering their noses whilst the sky is falling in!

      • I am not delusional thank you Sharon , I know very well what is happening in my own country .
        First time I have ever heard a kibbutznik described as a spoilt princess :)

  45. ” Welcome to the blog – Israeli. You’re just what we need! ”

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm . .
    are you sure ?
    I’m pro Israel but also pro Peace with the Palestinians but not at the cost of our survival .

    • So you are reconciled in reality to a one party state that is yet another Islamic republic forming part of the world caliphate. You won’t remain on this earth unless you embrace that ideology and dress your womenfolk head to toe in drapes after they have been circumcised. Thank goodness Israel has a government that understands a little more than you do as I for one do not wish acquiesce.

      • No I am not reconciled in reality to a one party state that is yet another Islamic republic forming part of the world caliphate.
        I am a follower of the Two State Solution.

      • “I’m a follower of the twostate solution” – that’s delusional!

    • Hi Israeli,
      I think this might be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

      Like you, I am “pro peace” with all our neighbors, certainly not at the price of our survival. Neither do I believe that I am not alone in this matter; author of this excellent Blog together with Harvey, Sharon, Silke, Ruben and pretty much everyone else are in agreement.

      We all desperately want to live in peace, friendship and harmony with each other and with the world, and none of us want to endanger ourselves, our families or each other.

      • ” We all desperately want to live in peace, friendship and harmony with each other and with the world, and none of us want to endanger ourselves, our families or each other.”
        Amen Bro .

  46. Israeli
    This is not some sort of right wing blog or Khanist mouthpiece .
    We are a small group of individuals who regularly come into contact , research and oppose the many boycott divestment sanctions organisations which make up the so called red /green alliance .
    I would like to emphasise from the outset , that these groups have no interest in a two state solution as you see it . Most will reject the notion out of hand . Their battle cry is” From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free ”
    This is not rhetoric . This is fundamental to their mission statement ie the delegitimization of Israel leading to dismantlement of the state .
    Even Norman Finklestein has publically sought to disassociate himself from the movement .
    There are a few who are not quite so overt in their objectives but quietly under the radar state yes to two states but with the caveat of ROR for all Palestinians .
    Leftist organisations such as Peace Now , JStreet , J word etc are at best naive and at worst simply facilitating the objectives of the enemy .
    You need to understand that for these people there is no compromise except for expediency an interim solution leading to a regrouping and a final push for the whole cake .
    Your collusion knowingly or otherwise is an act of treachery . Simple as that .
    We have a good understanding of the enemy ranged against Israel . Night after night Richard attends their meetings and painstakingly records their nefarious activities . If you came to the Uk which is probably the epicenter of the third intifada you will come away with a very different perspective .

    • ” Israeli
      This is not some sort of right wing blog or Khanist mouthpiece ”
      I would not be talking to you if I thought for one moment you were Kach .
      ” the delegitimization of Israel leading to dismantlement of the state .”
      Not going to happen .
      ” ROR for all Palestinians .”
      Dont agree to that either .
      ” Leftist organisations such as Peace Now , JStreet , J word ”
      Know nothing about the other two but Shalom Akshav do not facilitate the objectives

      of the enemy .

      ” Your collusion knowingly or otherwise is an act of
      treachery . Simple as that .”
      Be careful haver you are talking to an IDF officer (res).
      ” If you came to the Uk ”
      Not going to happen , rather learn here .

  47. Pingback: Israel Apartheid Week – victories and defeats | Anne's Opinions

  48. ” Your collusion knowingly or otherwise is an act of treachery . Simple as that . ”
    Hey Harvey, I can fix you up in a combat unit tomorrow .
    Wanna put your body and life together with your mouth ?

  49. Israeli
    It’s not a question of who has the bigger cajones .
    There is a tendency among Israelis ( if indeed you are an Israeli – we only have your word for it ) to be fairly insular . To not care or comprehend the forces , non military which are ranged against it outside Israel .
    The organisations I speak of have absolutely no adherence to the concept of an irrevocable peace accord on the basis of your somewhat naive conditions .
    Withdrawal from post 67 west bank and Gaza and the splitting of Jerusalem into west Israel East Palestine is not the end of the process merely the beginning .
    It does not include or negate Palestinian ROR to Israel pre 67 . In other words there is no irrevocable peace accord following withdrawal from west bank Gaza and east Jerusalem .
    It is natural for good people to believe in the best will and intention of others . No body wants eternal conflict . It was no different in pre war Europe .
    Those that wish harm on Israel will not stop until Israel disappears . If what you state is all that is required for peace , then what was the excuse between 48 and 67 when there was no occupation and no settlements .
    This is not about an independent Palestine existing as part of a two state solution
    First and foremost this is about the negation of Israels right to exist .

    • ” Israeli
      It’s not a question of who has the bigger cajones . ”
      Oh but yes it is , if you have not learnt that yet you know nothing about the Middle East .
      ” There is a tendency among Israelis ( if indeed you are an Israeli – we only have your word for it ) to be fairly insular ”
      You dont have just my word for it , you have my IP and thanks again for doubting my word , shmuck .
      ” to be fairly insular ” can you blame us ? we tend to trust our own and with the likes of you around who can blame us ?
      HarveyY, learn something today , its our country and we will decide on our future , not you and not Ken O’Keefe .

  50. Hello Israeli – welcome into grinder!
    There was a time when we were all left-wing, we still are but not in the sense you mean. Living in England, in the past I voted Labour but my heart was with Betar and Cherut. All the parties, Mapai, Mapam etc. (I’m giving my age away) were all staunch Zionists, so what’s gone wrong? In fact, Hashomer- Hatzair were the most dynamic “settlers” of all! Unfortunately we now live in post-Zionist times and you seem to be a typical product of it. My Israeli nephews are the same. One in particular, I’ve always had arguments with on this subject. Cast your mind back to before the pullout from Gaza . He, like all ‘peaceniks’ was in favour of uprooting all those fine people from the shtachim, who are no different from yesterday’s dedicated chalutzim, and unilaterally withdraw from Gaza. I said that I don’t trust the Arabs and what if they don’t keep the peace? He replied, like all like-minded Israelis, that we would have to go back in again! No comment required here.

    If you cast your mind back further, before the Intifadas, Israelis used to go in droves into the Arab areas and villages to do their weekly shopping and save money, to fix their cars and so on. Palestinians worked inside Israel and Arab carpenters built their kitchens and fitted wardrobes. The Arabs prospered and the Israelis were jubilant, proclaiming ‘Peace in our Time’. The Arabs had too much to lose if they turned violent, all the commentators agreed. The rest is history.

    Israeli, you are for a two-state solution, so am I if it were only genuine. What, with a failed Gaza-like mini terrorist state surrounding its borders? You only have to look at the world around you, and see how Arabs and Moslems share a land with their Christian or Hindu neighbours. And what makes you think they would be any more peaceful and benign to Jews? Oh, I forgot, we can always turn the clock back and return to the status quo…

    An Israeli friend of mine who knows the Arabs well, he was born there and lived amongst them, is fond of repeating; should the Arabs ever get the upper hand, heaven forbid, not even a Jewish dog would be spared!

    Abbas, your partner in peace, to whip up the crowd, declares only yesterday, that the Jews are out to demolish the Al Aksa mosque…

    • ” In fact, Hashomer- Hatzair were the most dynamic “settlers” of all! Unfortunately we now live in post-Zionist times and you seem to be a typical product of it. ” :)
      I’m Hashomer- Hatzair and a proud post-zionist , sue me .
      ” were all staunch Zionists, so what’s gone wrong ”
      answer : the night of November 4, 1995.
      wasnt just Rabin or Peace that was murdered , it was trust in our own .
      You expect us to forgive and forget and move on but we are no better than you are , cant do it . Loved Rabin, hate what killed him , so for him we will do what he was not allowed to finish .

  51. Israeli!
    If you really are what you say, would you please traslate for me ‘Ani lo yodea’.

    • sure Rubin
      ” ‘Ani lo yodea’.” =
      I’m Israeli , lo yodea and Samaria , lo Greater Israel
      just a simple farmer that wants what we already have and no more,
      cept Peace .

  52. Everyone beware!
    I’m now convinced that ‘Israeli’ is no Israeli but an impostor. He doesn’t write like an Israeli and has not used a single Hebrew term but has come up with an obscene Yiddish word which he has mis-spelt, unless he is an American, but he claims to be an Israeli and Israelis don’t use this word.

    • I’m not an imposter Rubin
      i’m not an American
      i’m a Left wing Israeli kibbutznik ,Hashomer- Hatzair variety
      hey , go ahead and deny we exist
      but without us would never have been an Israel in the first place

  53. Israeli
    Go and troll somewhere else . Start with Jews for Justice for Palestine and then progress to Palestine Solidarity Campaign . It’s one and the same in any case

  54. Caught ya! Fraud!

    I set him a simple snare which he fell for.
    His last post appeared before the above.
    He should be ignored, as he is not honest.

  55. Yup, I think I agree with Rubin. The guy is talking nonsense and claiming that Hashomer Hazair was somehow part of the “settler movement” until 1995.

    Though he is a fake, I would say that there are Israelis, many Israelis who support some kind of territorial compromise, the creation of a Palestinian State, etc. I do not agree with them and consider their arguments to often be logically inconsistent, not to mention downright dangerous. However, in my eyes their expressing such views is NOT an act of treachery.

    I have many patriotic friends and relatives with just such views, among them those who immigrated to Israel as Zionists, served in the IDF, etc. I strongly believe that their “solution” would not bring peace, but endanger the People of Israel.

    They, on the other hand believe no less strongly that my refusal to “compromise” could cause another war and endanger Israel no less. Their viewpoint is wrong but completely legitimate in my eyes and I seek to use the tools of facts and cold logic, rather than verbal abuse, in order to attempt change their minds.

    • ” The guy is talking nonsense and claiming that Hashomer Hazair was somehow part of the “settler movement” until 1995. ”

      not talking nonsense and claimed no such thing

      i’m not a fake daniel

      • well Israeli,

        being the kind of reader I am I’d always trust Lozowick just as I trust Daniel though both probably differ on quite a number of issues

        There is something about an argument that conveys integrity and taking into consideration a lots of what was going on AT THE TIME that I find irresistably attractive.

    • Daniel

      this is not the only post in which Yaacov Lozowick told us, his readers, that Rabin wasn’t as much of a dove as media try to make us believe these days. Do you care to elaborate or should I try to google for more? (I’ll only do it, if you order me to.)

      http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2010/11/rabin-on-jerusalem.html

      But perhaps it might be reasonable for self-proclaimed Israeli champions of peace to recognize that on Jerusalem, their anointed saint the martyred Rabin held the same position Netanyahu does.

      PS: I am pretty sure that you and Lozowick would propose different procedures but as I am sure you are for real so I am sure he is for real.
      And yes something makes me guess that Israeli is a fake. That claim with the IP-address – as best I know that proves nothing. Maybe he is good ol’ Gert trying a new angle?

  56. ” Without you? Really? You were there building the state at the beginning? You must be old. ”

    grandparents were , parents were born on our kibbutz
    as were my kids
    you want me to go richard ?
    whats up ?
    you guys cant handle the truth ??????

    • richardmillett

      What truth and how will you make the peace? No please stay. What kibbutz are you on? We can handle anything om here.

      • “What truth and how will you make the peace? No please stay. What kibbutz are you on? We can handle anything om here. ”

        not sure I want to share anymore
        WTF !!!
        ” insular ” are we ?
        maybe you should ask yourselves why !!!!!!!!

      • richardmillett

        What are you on about?

  57. deep long yawn!

  58. Gosh! You weren’t that good “Israeli” and you seem to be getting worse and worse:

    “i’m a Left wing Israeli kibbutznik ,Hashomer- Hatzair variety” – Very 1960s. It also hardly sounds like someone describing himself.

    Whoever you are, if those are your views, don’t be afraid to express them. You don’t have to pretend to be anyone in order to heard here. We will listen to what you have to say even if you didn’t build Israel in 48 or single-handedly halt the Syrians in 73.

    If you want to call yourself “Israeli”, that’s fine too. Now what was it that you wanted to say?

  59. What is the point in debating with a fibber, who flounders from one thing to another. The man calls himself an Israeli, belonging to a ‘Shmutz’ kibbutz and yet cannot speak a word of Hebrew and doesn’t even know how to write ‘chaver’. As for the riddle I set him, he only understood the word ‘lo’. He picked on Hashomer H. because I mentioned it. If he is an Israeli, let alone a kibbutznik, he should be able to tell us what Shmutz stands for, I mean in Hebrew, not German!

    I rather think that Richard has called his bluff and has put paid to it.

  60. Yes, well he seems to have disappeared anyway.

    By the way, your article was quoted from the podium today.

    • I just remembered the first time you mentioned that you had served in the IDF (I think it was in a spat with Gert). You sounded very much like a man who did his duty because it was something that had to be done and thus very admirable and that without any Gung Ho about it.

      What was said about Richard’s work? Couldn’t you be just a little bit less taciturn?

  61. What strikes me about this person called Israeli is that the writing is not like an Israeli writing English. It’s too cool dudish and a little ignorant for an Israeli, even one who professes to being left wing. In any event, there are far more things to focus on than whether or not this person is for real.

  62. ” Gosh! You weren’t that good “Israeli” and you seem to be getting worse and worse: ”
    daniel , I was not lying to you and i’m not a fake
    you have my email if you ever want to chat
    if you want to understand my politics read this at :

    http://972mag.com/to-such-an-israel-i-shall-be-a-traitor/

    I go under the nick of kibbutznik on 972
    been trying for a long time to understand the diaspora
    both Left and Right
    came to the conclusion that your all a waste of my time and energy

    • richardmillett

      What a vile, racist article. How’s Joseph in Ramallah? He announced on Twitter that I was racist and when he couldn’t back it up he blocked me like the coward he is.

    • Israeli

      didn’t you mention that you are part of a group, an NGO, a party or some such thing.

      If that is right, I’d like to get some info as to where you get your money for both your group’s office and/or meeting ground and for projects you do maybe together with other groups.

      Thanks in advance.

      • Silke,
        I’m a Leftist , I vote Left
        as far as I am aware thats not a crime …. yet .

      • richardmillett

        Do you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state? Do you believe the Palestinians should return?

      • Israeli

        if that is supposed to be an answer to my question then it is beyond my intellectual abilities.

        To put the question again, do you get any money from German organisations and if so which?

        I’ve tried to learn from our Foreign Ministry where they spend money in Germany, they said they did but had no comprehensive list. So my best chance of finding out, how and where my government interferes in Israel’s inner matters is by asking Israelis.

      • Israeli

        and I forgot, I think I still qualify as Left by our standards (and have been from the moment I had learned to think in those terms) even though I currently find neither the Social Democrats nor the Greens competent, let alone Die Linke.

  63. richard
    I dont know Joseph
    are we at war or something ?
    why do you attack those that are just trying to understand ?

    • richardmillett

      Joseph writes for 972 and lives in Ramallah where he said he is exploring my secular Jewish identity.

      • ” Joseph writes for 972 and lives in Ramallah where he said he is �exploring my secular Jewish identity�. ”

        and what exactly has that got to do with me or anything ?

      • richardmillett

        Sorry. Just presumed you would know of him, that’s all. Do you think the Palestinians should “return”?

  64. ” Do you believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state? Do you believe the Palestinians should �return�? ”
    think we should be a state of all of its citizens , free to choose with no religous coercion of any kind : a non-ideological, secular, liberal democratic state, to be officially neither Jewish nor Arab in character.,
    thats post zionism .
    The Palestinians should have their own State , to do with what they will .
    Israeli Arabs can choose to move there if they choose or not , their choice .
    But the Palestinians can have there own State they cant have ours .
    Two State Solution .

  65. ” To put the question again, do you get any money from German organisations and if so which?”
    Who me ?
    I dont get money from anyone , all I do is vote according to my conscience.
    I’m just a farmer Silke .

    • I meant not you personally I meant the club or organisation or so that I think you mentioned.

      • ” I meant the club or organisation or so that I think you mentioned. ”

        which club or organisation or so would that be Silke ?

        I support Shalom Akshav and Gush Shalom, I also support the State of Israel with my lives blood as do my children , as did my parents and their parents .
        Any body have a problem with that ?

  66. “and I forgot, I think I still qualify as Left by our standards (and have been from the moment I had learned to think in those terms) even though I currently find neither the Social Democrats nor the Greens competent, let alone Die Linke.”
    Lost me , I dont know or understand these terms
    sorry
    I know almost nothing about english politics Silke
    I came here to learn
    I know and understand Israeli politics very well
    tried to understand the americans , came across Richard Silverstien and wanted to make mincemeat out of him
    dont think its possible for us to understand each other
    think we are worlds apart

    • I am German living in Germany.

      • I am German living in Germany.
        sorry I thought you were english

        So my best chance of finding out, how and where my government interferes in Israel’s inner matters is by asking Israelis.
        all I know is that we got a submarine from you recently

  67. FM appoints first Ethiopian-born ambassador

    Belaynesh Zevadia, who made aliyah from Ethiopia as a teen, appointed Israel’s envoy to Addis Ababa

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196293,00.html

    So much about Karmi’s assertion that Israel discriminates against Ethiopian Jews! Her’s is the original blood libel accusing Jews of not using their blood i Israeli blood banks! Karmi is also guilty of inciting racial hatred, not only against Jews but against black Jews. Where’s the MET in this one?

  68. I was there, so just a few additional observations.
    The turn out was mainly Muslim/ethnic, who came to hear what they wanted to hear.
    Ken O’keefe is such an obvious crank, that I don’t think that even they took him seriously.

    The most dangerous were the 2 women.
    In particular, Ghada Karmi.
    Her entire speech was a tissue of lies, delivered eloquently and convincingly to those ignorant of the region’s history.
    She repeatedly called for the end of the “gangster” state, and tried to convince that she isn’t anti-semitic because “I live in Golder’s Green, for God’s sake”.
    The thuggish chairman, a past president of the union, did not take a single question from anyone who looked as though they might have an opposing viewpoint.
    He made one mistake when he allowed a question from an elderly, white, obviously gentile woman, who went on to read out a list of reasons why the Jews should have their homeland in Israel.
    She was a religious Christian, and after some minutes the chairman ordered her to stop with the charming words….”I’ve had enough of you”, when she said words to the effect that the Christian God wants the Holy Land for the Jews.

    The atmosphere was menacing, intimidating and openly hostile towards those few dissenters.
    There wasn’t even the pretence of a debate, in the understood meaning of the word.

    The evening was a good lesson in realpolitic for those who think that the Arab world will accept the so-called two state solution.
    Some Jews may want it, but the Arab world certainly does not.

    The whole evening reminded me of what it must have been like for European Jews in the early thirties, except that the word Israel has been substituted for Jew(s), in accordance with the protean nature of anti-semitism.

    Afterwards, I challenged both Karmi and Tonge on some of their lies, with the actual facts….impossible to call them to account on all….there were too many.
    Neither responded, other than to look faintly sick because, like all bullies, they crumple when faced with someone unafraid to challenge them with the facts.
    Come to think of it, the words, evil and wicked, best describe these appalling people.

    Readers of this blog should also know that the Jewish Society, that’s right, Jewish NOT Israel Soc, at Middlesex University, has been suspended by the students union there, pending “investigations” as to an alleged offensive activity of some, or one of its members, which the union is coy about divulging, until further notice, so the Jewish students have
    no idea of what they are accused of.

    • Truthtriumphs – you are so right, the two women in a sense were worse than he pathological Breivik type O’Keefe. Harvey managed to dispel his authenticity as he has written int his blog. The women though carry a semblance of an education and as women speak eoionally and subjectively without an iota of source material to prove a point. Tonge especially is doing a tour of universities this week spewing her hogwash onto students who cheer her ego. Known Jews are barred from their meetings – in a sense we were probably the last peremitted to witness events this week.

      I can sense how Jews in Germany must have felt at being bared from universities there before the holocaust. There is a new genocide in the making and yet again the world is ignoring it. Witness UNESCO mleaving Israel out of a report on world scientific achievements:

      http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-curious-saga-of-unesco-a-global-science-report-and-the-omission-of-nobel-prize-winning-israel/

      Not only is the JSoc of Mddsx being barred, so too is Israel as the embodiment of all Jews being barred from the world.

      So let’s get together and get organised!

  69. ” The most dangerous were the 2 women.
    In particular, Ghada Karmi. ”
    Ok , thanks .
    Now I’m going to go find out as much as I can about this Ghada Karmi.
    See daniel ,
    i’m a learnin , ………………. and that is how I got here.

  70. Hi Israeli,

    If it appears that I’m ignoring you, that’s not the case. I just haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

    Let’s just say that it’s unusual for “Israelis” who weren’t Generals or at least Brigadier Generals to try to make so much mileage out of their army service. We were all in the IDF in combat units and are children are/were/will be too. I find it hard to picture you in political debate in Israel forever reminding everyone that you were a paratrooper (I assume from the boots) all those years ago. Doesn’t anyone ever ask you how that has any bearing on the subject under discussion?

    There are other parts of your biography and politics that still seem a little unconvincing. I’d like to believe you, but I know very few Israelis who would describe themselves in such a stereotypical way as you have, but maybe I’m wrong. I am unable to imagine this tough farmer (ex-paratrooper) who suddenly stopped being a Zionist one day in 1995 because Rabin was murdered and he had “loved” him so. I had always suspected that there was a certain superficiality about much of the Left-wing Zionist ideology, but this is ridiculous!

    Maybe give me a call and we’ll have a chat, so I can tell everyone on this excellent blog that you really are what you say.

    Home – 02-5354568
    Cell – 052-6671444

    • richardmillett

      Steady on, Daniel. You could get a lot of nasty calls.
      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

    • shalom daniel ,
      you can ignore me all you like
      but I came here with the best of all intentions and y’all attacked me
      I am not lying and I am not a fake
      I am a Left wing secular post zionist sabra
      I dont need your okay so you ” can tell everyone on this excellent blog that you really are what you say.”
      my home code is 04 -636 —-
      you work it out moteck
      I have no trust in native english speakers with an 02 code , wish the shabak had never had either in 1995

      • Hi Israeli,

        You see, this portrayal of the ex-paratrooper Kibbutznik farmer, caught in a 1995 time warp is just a little bit dodgy. I’m also just a tad suspicious as to the dramatic improvement in your ESL skills that seem to have taken place in one week.

        You also appear to be under the impression that Yigal Amir was an English speaker with an 02 code. With respect, you just don’t seem to know nearly enough, to be what you claim. I’m sorry but there’s much more to Post-Zionism than rambling on about your red boots and how much you miss Yitzhak Rabin. I just don’t buy it.

        You misread me. I said that I wasn’t ignoring you, but I’m giving the matter some consideration. I do not recall attacking you and have no intention of engaging you in debate until you either confirm that you are what you claim, or say something worthwhile.

  71. Why would anyone want to be nasty to me? Besides which, I am in the phone book.

  72. Michael Cohen

    Press TV at the Holocaust denial bottle again http://www.presstv.ir/detail/229369.html

  73. you dont know us as well as you think you know us
    I was refering to those who were under the balconey that supported Bibi and his grin and not to Yigal Amir
    I’m not interested in saying anything except goodbye daniel , I dont need some english immigrant to confirm who I am
    good luck with your fight with those lunatics at Middlesex University I’m sure it all gives you a purpose and forgive me for thinking it had anything to do with me