Ben White showing off his well-trolled quotes at Amnesty last night.
Ben White was last night handed the opportunity by Amnesty’s UK branch to call for the destruction of Israel. Not necessarily in the way Hamas would wish to achieve it, but White wants Israel changed from a Jewish state into another Muslim Arab state. This is what White thinks is “justice”.
Lest we forget, White once wrote “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are.”
For that and other statements of his there was a small protest outside Amnesty last night. Once sign read “Amnesty is great, except on Israel”, which is probably about right. Amnesty will stand up against other human rights’ abuses except when they are against Israel. They raised their voice in anger when Gaddafi was cruelly tortured before being executed, but when Israeli soldiers are kidnapped or Israeli children are bombarded by Hamas rockets from Gaza Amnesty falls silent.
Amnesty’s opposition to Israel’s existence is now, sadly, almost policy. Virtually no month passes without there being an anti-Israel event and never will there be a pro-Israel voice on the platform. One of Amnesty’s roles is to try to bury Israel.
White was promoting his new book Palestinians in Israel: Segregation, Discrimination and Democracy and it will be instructive to jump straight to the end of last night’s talk.
After calling for “A future based on a genuine co-existence of equals, rather than ethno-religious supremacy and segregation”, with its obvious anti-Semitic connotation of Jewish supremacy, White said (see clip):
“Instead of asking ‘can we return?’ or ‘when will we return?’ Palestinian refugees can ask ‘what kind of return do we want to create for ourselves?’ I think that’s a kind of beautiful phrasing actually that speaks to the liberation of the imagination that has to take place as we move towards securing a peace with justice”:
I can’t see Israelis ever voting for their state being changed into a Muslim Arab state, so what White is basically promoting is more war and bloodshed.
White’s talk, probably like his book, was a long list of out-of-context and out-of-date quotes.
He started with an apparent quote by Balfour in 1919 – “in Palestine we do not propose to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country” – and ended with one by Moshe Dayan’s father, MK Shmuel Dayan, from 1950 – “Maybe (not allowing the refugees back) is not right and not moral, but if we become just and moral, I do not know where we will end up”.
White must spend many nights trolling through the internet and old books looking for quotes that support his pursuit of Israel, but it is obviously a money-making exercise judging by the queue of people waiting for him to sign their copy of his 90-page book.
In between quotes he criticised Israel for what he calls the “Judaisation” of the Galilee and the Negev and for Israel not allowing “Palestinian citizens of Israel”, as he calls them, to live in Israel with their spouses who come from the West Bank and Gaza. The serious security implications for Israel if it allowed the latter are obvious, but Israel’s security isn’t high up on the list of White’s priorities.
During the Q&A he praised the protests during the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra’s concert at the Royal Albert Hall saying that the protests:
“Were targetting a body, the IPO, that receives funding from the Israeli state and also does concerts and stuff for Israeli soldiers.”
He raised the accusation of anti-Semitism aimed at him and said:
“The irony of the accusation of anti-Semitism against me in this context is that it is precisely opposition to all racism that informs my personal opposition to Israeli apartheid”.
And when someone asked him about Hamas and its policies White simply said that the evening wasn’t about Hamas but he hoped that the questioner would “support efforts to end the discriminatory practices against the Palestinians”.
It seems that Hamas is not much of an issue for White or Amnesty, whereas the Jewish state’s existence is.
More clips and photos from last night:
Ben White on “Jewish and Democratic?”
Ben White on “Judaisation” –
I bought this last night as no one else was buying.
RichardMillett's Blog 
Complain to Amnesty about prejudice towards Israel and eyes glaze over. They cannot understand why anyone would want Israel to survive as a Jewish State.
Amnesty has been hijacked by one individual who has a personal vendetta against Israel. I offered him Ruvi Ziegler to speak but it was turned down.
White’s first “book” was full of falsehoods and misquotes:
http://blog.z-word.com/2009/07/lies-damn-lies-and-the-apartheid-analogy/
I will be writing about this “book” idc
Nice post, Richard.
Speaking of Amnesty, I gave a speech at Kenton Synagogue on Monday. I didn’t even mention Amnesty yet many of the audience approached me afterwards with very deep concerns about the direction Amnesty is taking on Israel and Jewish issues.
These were ordinary – and in many cases elderly – Jewish people who are upset by Amnesty’s bias and demonisations. Those who obsessively demonise Israel and hijack otherwise admirable organisation into joining their bullying vendettas should be ashamed.
PS – Richard, during my speech and the Q&A I mentioned your blog several times, and said it is the best blog around. No, ssshhhh, I don’t want thanks. I’m almost too humble to even mention what I said. đź‰
Thanks, Chas. Feel free to expand on what you said. Thanks for the retweet also. I sent it to #palestinians48 so thanks for that also.
“The irony of the accusation of anti-Semitism against me in this context is that it is precisely opposition to all racism that informs my personal opposition to Israeli apartheid”.
This is such an obvious disconnect from reality, so obviously delusional, that I repeat: this man is not mentally all there. He manifests strong signs of a paranoid-schizophrenic disorder. And let’s not start on his obsessive-complusive Israel disorder.
Good title, Richard, and let’s spell out what was being “white-washed” at Amnesty: Ben White’s bigotry, and those of his admirers, who are very proud of casting their anti-Jewish activism as a struggle for human rights. Many of these rights were codified in the wake of the Holocaust — to which the Palestinian mufti enthusiastically contributed — and nowadays, professional “pro-Palestinian” activists like Ben White make a living by singling out Israel as the collective Jew who is to be blamed for surviving and for the consequences of Arab and Muslim unwillingness to countenance a Jewish state on a speck of Middle Eastern territory that is about 1/3 of the size of the properties taken from the Jews in Arab and Muslim countries.
And I would love to hear an example of Ben White’s opposing “all racism” – clearly, he has no problem with the anti-Jewish racism expressed in the Hamas Charter, or anywhere else in the Muslim world. Indeed, he wants Israel’s Jews to live in a country where the Palestinian mufti (and everyone else) is free to recite the Hadith calling for the killing of Jews.
Well said
I was at that meeting, my first foray into an Amnesty sponsored event. Amnesty of course is a misnomer, as this organisation with its kaffiyeh clad staff, is anything but a symbol for all that the name infers for freedom and democracy. It is blatantly obvious that it harbours a culture of anti Israel resentment with the PSC Jew haters swanning around the building as though they owned it.
I engaged in a conversation at the book stall with a young devotee whose name I can’t recall who seems not to have heard of the recent proclamations of the PA Mufti that it is decreed that all Jews must pbe killed and who defended himself by saying that these were not his words, but those of Mo. This young man first denied that it was said, then said “so?” then questioned the probity of the translation. Well here it is for him to get translated for himself if he doesn’t accept this version. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151991#.TyMtfvFYCSM
It is rather odd of course that he hadn’t heard this news as it has been condemned across the world – even the not so friendly NYT printed something about it! I will of course email him some links as promised together with other items we touched on like Abbas proclaiming that a future Palestinian state will be Jew free, and Mohammed Al Zahar of Hamas calling for death to all Jews, not just Israeli Jews, and that nice Mr Haniyah, the darling of Jihad Jenny, recently arriving in Tunis to the crowds shouting with his encouragement “Death to the Jews”. I guess all this is of no consequence in the lives of the kaffiyeh clad groupies
On to the meeting. Ben White has to be the most boring speaker on earth – I have never heard so much propaganda delivered in monotone sequence, supposed quote after supposed quote, out of context and out of time. Now he did say he was expecting the “Anti-semitism” card to come up – wonder why? Context is of course the key here, as placing a quote without relevant background information is pure propaganda, used to impress a preconceived notion on an audience. White obviously got a first in this activity at Cambridge – it was the only thing he excelled in all night. He made much of the Arab MK Haneen Zoabi who wrote the foreword to this book, describing her plight at the hands of the Israelis. He called her a Palestinian citizen of Israel and not simply an Israeli which she in fact is. So who’s the racist now, denying a person equal status so that they can fit in with the theme of his book. However, he did forget to tell us that this Israeli citizen, a member of parliament, had taken a unilateral decision to meet with Hamas, that terrorist organisation that calls for genocide of all Jews, that is not only banned in Israel, but also in the US,UK and EU. This is treason and yet she remains free and in Parliament. What other country would tolerate such behaviour? And he says Israel is not democratic! Obviously he got a U in politics at Cambridge!
And so the evening continued, with White accusing Israel of “Judaising” it’s own Jewish state, drip feeding his audience the delights of their fancy, so they could go home replete with cheap wine, apple juice and a head full of propaganda….
http://www.thejc.com/blogs/jonathan-hoffman/whose-human-rights-does-shamnesty-not-support-defenders-israel
Shamnesty suppresses free speech and has been hijacked to support one employee’s obsessive hatred of Israel.
Shamnesty never even called for Gilad Shalit’s release.
Enjoy the Za’atr sprinkled liberally on white un-sweet cheese (labanee) and all on a freshly baked flat pita made by an Arab woman in your local park. Only this, of course, never happens everywhere in Jewish Israel because we keep Arabs out in accordance with errr… no, wait. We don’t.
Palestinian Za’atr: next time ask for their powdered Palestinian Unicorn horn. Because you know that if the “Palestinians” found unicorns, they’d kill them and crush their horns!
I sat and listened not just to White, but also to the audience. It was full of people who thought that their trip through the tunnels at Gaza were like Orwell going off to fight in Catalonia. They had names like “Charlotte”, “Nathan” and “Natasha” (I’m not joking). But to hear them bay at participants who questioned White, and to hear them laugh at his pre-prepared dismissals was disgusting. The middle-class left in Britain love to have someone to hate — and now they have Israel and the jews, and they are running with it. It is how they make sure there is some “other” compared to whom they are morally purer and more civilised. They are like the children of Hyacinth Bouquet, only wearing Che Guavara t-shirts.
It was truly ironic to hear Ben White talk about how the Palestinians don’t have a voice, when I knew of several people who Amnesty had banned from the meeting.
Amnesty was concerned that a Palestinian who supported White received death threats from jews, but Amnesty is totally unconcerned about those in Israel, Britain, the US, Holland, Denmark, etc. who have received death threats from muslims.
I only recollect one mention in White’s talk about muslim terrorism in Israel (he called them “guerillas”, thus justifying them as soldiers). No mention of the 2 State Solution rejected by muslims over and over again. No mention of the jews kicked out of Iraq and North Africa. No mention of the Hebron massacre in 1929.
Calling it a “whitewash” is euphemistic. It was anti-jewish propaganda. For White and his baying neo-national-socialists, everything in the Middle East is the fault of the jews. How else to explain his complete failure to provide any contextual information?
I’m sure that if one scoured the works of the anti-semitic Left (from the National Socialist and German Workers Party on), one would find many phrases that were precisely like those in the “discourse” used by White. He had 100 years of documents from Balfour onwards to scour for selected phrases. I wish someone would take his slim little book and compare it to the discourse of the Nazis.
Well Joe, three of us had to force our hands to open our wallets to purchase one of these diatribes (goodness, my elbow is aching with the effort and my head is bursting that I actually contributed to White’s coffers) so that it could be scoured and exposed for the propaganda that it is. Here’s what he said and I quote:
“The Peace Process is just a process that is not meant to bring peace”. White must know this from the inside as it were, being a useful idiot for Hamas and Fatah both of which groups have charters that prescribe Genocide for all Jews worldwide.
You forgot the designer kaffiyot! I spied one made of the finest spun cotton that D&G would be proud to use, red white and black, casually slung in a contrived way around the neck and shoulders and a self professed-disclaimed Jew paying more attention to her emails than the lecture, but agreeing with all that was said – could it be that the boring monotone got to her as well? Another multicolored linen piece interwoven in white, green and rouge/bronze thread, tassels galore hanging all round with tightly plaited cords knotted at the ends at each corner, neatly draped for fasionista effect across front and back with stylistic folds that wouldn’t look out of place at London Fashion Week. It seems this was the place to be seen last week!
Yeah, that’s quite a rebuttal you’ve got going there, Joe!
Israel will sleepwalk into a one state solution: if the point of no return with regards to the Judaisation of the WB hasn’t already been reached (nearly 750,000 Israelis now live outside of the green line!), then it is only a matter of years before that happens. At that point, Israel will have no choice but to give West Bank Palestinians (and West Bank Israelis of course) equal civic and political rights as Israeli citizens or implement full blown Apartheid in that territory.
Israel (and her pundits here) may be very concerned about her security but have no long term vision whatsoever, unless â€muddling along and further colonising’ can be considered a long term strategy. Increasingly the colonisation of the WB (and East J’lem) is being talked about as part of Israel’s security strategy but full withdrawal of most settlements and maintaining the military occupation until final status agreement is reached would be far, far more beneficial for Israel’s security.
Those here who oppose that idea should be honest and declare themselves unequivocally in favour of â€Greater Israel’…
Wow, to my surprise I actually agreed with a lot of that.
You come over as so paternal about Israel, sometimes, Gert. I would have thought that a “one state solution” is precisely what you want. I’m shocked to hear you propose something “far more beneficial for Israel’s security”. Israel might thank you and consider your advice but reject it. But as a “one state solution” is what you really want why don’t you keep quiet and lick your lips as it unfolds? Why give Israel the heads-up?
I think this picture illustrates all that Gerd most hopes for.
The best pieces I read are those who after having accurately and in detail described all the Catch 22s involved in any agreement with partners who have a long record of not being good at keeping promises aka unreliable then spare me the part with the VoilĂ I know the solution and here it is.
But those who spare me it probably only do because they haven’t read any of Gerd’s copy+paste-ies yet.
oops – here’s the link
Watch this carefully Ben White and take note: We the Jewish people will never again allow the likes of you and your creed to put us through another Holocaust. You can dress up your hatred and vilification of the Jewish nation however you like, you can write propaganda embracing a cause that is hell bent on repeating another attempt at Genocide of my people, the Jewish nation who gave the world THE prototype for freedom, democracy and human rights that you now claim as your own, but you will never be victorious. You support an organisation that uses replacement theory to recreate themselves as the Jews whilst they annihilate the real People of the Book. Watch those jets streaming over Auschwitz and know of the might and power that will never allow this to happen. Listen to the words and voices that speak and sing and know that this is a proud people, a fine people and a people that have vowed never to succumb to the evils of Genocide.
Amen to that – To White, Sizer and all Replacement Theologists, Islamists, Finklers, Communists and all their flotsam, jetsam and acolytes …
“I can understand very well that some people are unpleasant towards Jews”.
Richard, can you explain exactly what you find unacceptable and offensive about that statement? I can also understand. Don’t you?
I’ve also noticed a disturbing development in your discourse, where you are throwing around the term ‘antisemitic’ in the same opportunistic and careless way Muslims and their Leftist sympathisers exploit the word ‘Islamophobia’. For example, ‘….with its obvious anti-Semitic connotation of Jewish supremacy’. What is antisemitic about highlighting that Jewish supremacy exists? It’s an observation of something that you don’t like and obviously are in denial about.
Do you think Israel is a supremacist state?
Richard:
Israel rejects just about anyone’s advice, including that of its greatest benefactor, so it’s rather a moot point.
I was in favour of an agreed two state solution for 30 years. I’ve explained that amply and time and time again here at the house of the hard of hearing. Israel has made a TSS impossible with its settlement policy. But the Palestinians? They still exist and they’re not going anywhere.
Why do you approve of very fart from Netanyahu, the Revisionists in general and the Council of settlers included when you know very well nothing good can come from an ultranationalist expansionist movement? A bad case of philosemitism, perhaps?
Because I know, as do you, that removing every Jew from the West Bank wouldn’t make the slightest bit of difference as was the case with the withdrawal from Gaza.
oh but removing every Jew from Judea and Samaria would make a difference, it would give unhindered access to that beautiful shooting range towering over Jerusalem.
And you can understand anti-Semitism? You can understand why people don’t like Jews?
‘Understanding’ isn’t the same thing as ‘condoning’. I can see (understand) why 9/11 made of lot of people Islamophobic, but I can’t condone it.
Not that hard to understand, Rich.
Sorry, Gert, but I don’t “understand” 9\11 leading to people hating Muslims. That’s racism and something I, therefore, don’t “understand”.
Yes I can. Watch out for the knee.jerk reaction to my comment, Richard.
Characters like ben White are obviously loathsome bigots who choose to ignore Islamic hatred of jews and Arab violence. He and his fellow haters are wilfully ignorant because they have an agenda against Israel.
There are features in Judaism and in Israeli society…..and I know the country well….that are clearly supremacist. My point is that the fight against antisemitism must coincide with a fight against Jewish chauvinism and elitism.
Yes there are supremacist features in every country but White says Israel as a whole is supremacist.
roger
when the Times was still online I was quite often amused by how unabashed Brits would voice a supremacist opinion. There is a saying, if one points with one finger at somebody, 4 point back at oneself.
Have I alerted y’all to this delightful report on what documentary filmers have to deal with routinely in Greece? Read it and imagine what those who love to single out Israel would make out of it.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2012/01/whats-the-price-of-cheap-filming-in-greece.html
The script vetting comes right down to the interpretation of classical history and culture. Try saying that the god Apollo was a god of plague as well as of light and purity and, I’m told, you’ll have a struggle on your hands. You’ll need to go armed to the vetting meeting with a copy of the Iliad (which says just that) under your arm, and be prepared for a fight. (The fact is that Greek authorities dont like nasty aspersions being cast on their ancient gods. Plague bad, light good.)
Silke….the modern Greeks are arrogant chauvinists……with little to show for it these days…….and so are the……oh dear the list is long ……..but my point here is that many Israeli Jews are also arrogant chauvinists. I have had direct experience of this and I don’t like it. It sucks…and it’s bad Hasbara for obvious reasons. I am a supporter of Israel as Richard knows, but I don’t like any low-life cretin who looks down on me because I am a Gentile. And that includes Maimonides, the revered Jewish philosopher…..and virulent racist…and Ovadia Yousef, and Rabbi Schneerson….and,…..oh dear..the list is long.
roger
as you I don’t like being looked down on but so many people do it that I see no reason at all to single out Israelis for it. In fact if they do it, it makes me rather glad as it is proof that they are fallible human beings just like the rest of us.
(you should hear me looking down on certain academics, I think I have become quite astute at it).
As to the Hasbara argument:
when German Jews voluntarily went into the trenches in WW1 that should have been good Hasbara. Did it have any lasting effect? Yes, of course it did, my grandfather liked to tell regularly that he vastly preferred them to Austrians? But as best I can tell my grandfather’s good personal memories didn’t make one hoot of a difference when it came to saving one life.
Israelis can start all behaving like worthy of instant canonization angel look alikes, it will change no Gert-ish mind.
How did you react, when you were given the “gentile”-treatment? The same robust way you would presumably react if a Frenchman would let it rip? i.e. give as good as you get?
As to Ovadia – according to Yaacov Lozowick the total picture is quite a mixed one.
http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2010/09/rabbi-speaks-like-rabbi.html
Along with his unfortunate penchant for expressing himself in earthy bluntness, Rav Yosef has been a revolutionary force for modernizing halachic thought and integrating it into modernity. Again and again he has courageously formulated rulings that contradicted those of all his peers. He found a way to permit and encourage organ transplants; he permitted artificial inseminations; in the aftermath of the Yom Kippur War he swiftly freed almost a thousand women from Aginut, and the list goes on. Most famously, in the late 1980s he was the first important orthodox rabbi to announce that peace with the Palestinians is preferable to continued control of the West Bank.
oh and roger I forgot
the point isn’t what the modern Greeks are or aren’t – the point is if the same would be reported out of Israel keyboards all around the world would go up in flames from excessive expression of hatred.
and since it is Greece, I assume everybody (except the film crews) smiles those amused little indulgent smiles and says “oh those Greeks what can one expect”. (while I assume feeling no guilt whatsoever for looking down on them)
Anyway, Roger, you’re welcome to ignore my interpretation of events. I am just highlighting what I view as anti-Semitism. I don’t feel I throw the label around that much either. I try to keep it to a minimum.
never mind Richard, it took lots of years until male chauvinists “graciously” acknowledged that we might have a point in calling them that. These days such people are called misogynists and the verdict is usually accepted because the fact that it is open to see for all.
Since good ol’ anti-semites have changed their tune and try out all kinds of songs, even paternalistic benevolence, it’ll take them a while to be willing to acknowledge what they are doing.
Until then if it feels like anti-semitism to a Jew the likelihood is that it is just that.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/06/18/is-it-possible-to-understand-the-rise-in-anti-semitism/
It was much worse than that: White wrote “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are”
I thought I might have picked out the wrong quote. They are all horrendous.
Hoff’s right. You should correct the quote in the article, Richard?
The point is Richard that White did not ever write: “I can understand very well that some people are unpleasant towards Jews”. That is a statement he quoted direct from a Sigmund Freud Institute poll.
As Hoff said, what he did write was: “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are.”
I agree. I will change it. Thanks. It didn’t feel quite right when I was writing it.
Sheesh Rich, if you can’t understand (w/o condoning it) what leads people to hate specific groups, how can you possibly be a judge of what is racism and what is not? Ironically that’s what racists do: they don’t understand where their own bigoted views come from, do not understand that broad painting stereotypes about Jews, Muslims or any other social/religious/ethnic/professional/etc group is wrong and bigoted. No wonder they (nearly) always deny the charge!
“No wonder they (nearly) always deny the charge!”
Just like Ben White denies being a jew-hater.
Amnesty is going to look like the disgustingly hypocritical organisation it is, when someone matches White’s OCD and spends 5 years pouring over Nazi documents to match White’s discourse to that of Goebbels.
One might understand many traits about a people both ood and not so good, and all peoples have a range of both, some more than others, but there is only one group that calls for Genocide of the entire Jewish nation and that group is underpinned by Jew haters like White and all those Jonathan named, including the Finklers like Kauffman in their ignorance that they might escape the noose. That has no place in a cultured sophisticated society, not least the UK, but nice society ignores it whilst those who overtly support this call for Genocide of all Jews get a free pass from the media and so called charitable organisations like Amnesty, War on Want, Oxfam and others; and of course through this, the Charity Commission that does nothing to stop them. That is not understandable, not least because all these groups and people claim to be the torchbearers of human rights, that means rights for every hate onager and terrorist except for Jews.
doesn’t anyone care that the information that was brought up was incorrect or distorted? The Ramle case for instance, it’s a simple “pinuyi binuyi”- project, the government destroys the crumbling old cabins and builds new apartment buildings not far from the destroyed neighborhoods, when the tenants have a right to move in or get money compensation and go someplace else there is a neighborhood right next to mine (in a sleep city not far from Tel Aviv) undergoing this process right now (no Arabs living there specifically but there were families of Bedouins who moved into some neighborhoods here a few years ago).
The “Judification” of parts of the country for some reason hasn’t prevented Israeli-Arabs from taking residence in those areas not to mention to move into new areas, previously uninhabited by Arabs like big secular cities, other than Tel Aviv- who always drew professionals in all fields and from all backgrounds to live in it. There is the issue of communal villages but that has nothing to do with race or religion that’s barmy on any level, I wouldn’t pass the acceptance committee to those places (you’d have to be rich first and foremost).
And it’s crazy Jewish right wingers that Israeli- Arabs have connected with so they could stop Jews moving into non-Jewish majority towns – the extreme right wing wants to put anything smaller than a city on a “culture list” so that places may keep their ethnic identity as Jewish, Arab or otherwise – seek that is, but people in Shfar’am don’t seem to mind. (Shfar’am btw is a distortion of the previous Hebrew name of that place, Shofar-Am and it was Canaanite before it was Jewish as it goes back thousand of years).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shefa-%27Amr
This is the point yuvi, context is the point. Lists of out of context quotes is propaganda as the snippets are chosen to meet a given bias. Who has the time a devout propagandist has to check it out and contest every point.
Here’s the challenge, if readers will send me links to quotes in the photographs in this blog I will correlate the research and write an exposĂ©. It’s time consuming, but perhaps it needs to be done. If we are a team we can get it done.
And yes yuvi we do care which is why we are here.
Janet Levy sent me the following news. Note who will attend and realisemjust how infiltrated society is by the secular humanist/Islamic caliphate alliance hell bent on destroying the West. Times are truly grave and it’s not simply Israel/Palestine. The secular humanists want an international socialist revolution backed by Obama and the Caliphatists want an international Islamic governance.
Chicago Mass Action (a sample of groups in their coalition listed below) plans protests during the NATO/G-8 summits in Chicago on May 19th and 20th. Â Â This is a conglomeration of Soros-supported anti-American and anti-Israel groups that has no respect for authority and no sense of decent, civil behavior. Â Expect these miscreants to wreak havoc in the City of Chicago and Rahm Emanuel to stand down. Â Â Â Â
End the Occupation
OCCUPY Chicago
Palestine Solidarity Group
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)
American Friends Service Committee
American Muslims for Palestine
International ANSWER Chicago
Code PINK
Chicago Democratic Socialists of America
Chicago Socialist Party
Eco-Justice Collaborative
Citizens for Peace and Justice
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
Gay Liberation Network
International Socialist Organization
La Voz de los de Abajo
U.S. Palestinian Community Network (USPCN)-Chicago Chapter
– Janet Levy, Los Angeles
GREG HINZ ON POLITICS
Big protests set for early in week of NATO/G8 summits
January 26, 2012
Gert
If you’re still sliming about here .
Spare the concerns and crocodile tears over Israel west bank community and how that might impact on a two state solution in the future .
You fool no one . You subscribe to so called Palestinian ROR to Israel pre 67 borders thus ending an independent Jewish state .
Trolls like you tone down their act when they enter hostile territory .
The real Gert is to be found with his nose buried deep in Greensteins backside over at his politburo website .
Harvey:
”Trolls like you tone down their act when they enter hostile territory .”
Try simple, basic logic. How can further colonisation of the WB contribute to Israel’s security? Only if you believe it’s OK if the state uses its own citizens as human shields.
Even if the RoR was continued to be denied to Palestinian refugees, further, irreversible colonisation of the WB means that Israel will have to implement full blown Apartheid in that territory. The world won’t stand for it.
how can giving over control of the ridge overlooking Jerusalem to an unreliable partner contribute to Israel’s security?
But of course being able to acknowledge the existence of conundrums is an indicator of intelligence.
In this context a question:
Why do the Gerts of this world take it for granted that Arabs can’t be expected to live peacefully together with Jews (except in Israel of course)
I was there as well and asked ben white if his book mentions that hamas teaches its children that Jews are apes and pigs, if his book mentions that arafat used to rape little boys and that in 1970, in Black September, Jordan killed 25,000 ‘palestinians’ in 11 days, a nr Israel will never beat.
I also said that since most ‘palestinians’ in Gaza voted for hamas and as such are supporters of terrorism.
Has it ever occurred to you that Israel is a veritable military superpower in the region? That a future Palestinian state would never be even remotely a match for Israel, militarily speaking? The security needs of a country cannot forever be predicated on the subjugation of an entire people.
Ask yourself why the increasing framing of the 1967 borders as a national security concern is a relatively recent phenomenon, popping up in an era of minimal Palestinian violence? Zionism is a lot of things but it certainly displays â€function creep’. Increasingly â€national security’ is a fig leaf Israel is using to â€justify’ the occupation and further population transfers. Quite a few here noddingly approve of this nonsense. As far as I’m concerned, 1948 and 1967 to present date are not separate events but a continuum of Revisionist policies. Your friends at EoZ for instance are Revisionists, if they weren’t they would roundly condemn something from which no good can come in the longer term.
To assume that Jews and Arabs cannot leave peacefully together is racist and would imply that creating a Jewish homeland in an Arab ocean wasn’t a smart thing to do to begin with: Israel will always be surrounded by Arab Nations. And Jews and Arabs did once live peacefully together, notably in Palestine. Some of these friendships endure to this day.
Continue to blame Hamas all you want but Hamas didn’t cause the occupation which much predates the rise of that organisation and the latter which incidentally Israel initially supported, clearly a case of â€divide and rule’ gone seriously sour.
Increasingly â€national security’ is a fig leaf Israel is using
I would be interested to hear the inhabitants of Sderot’s opinion.
As to military superpowers – if they give up strategic necessities without good reason, they’ll eventually pay the price in blood. But that is what would delight you and what you are looking forward to.
and because it is Sunday where I live and because it is lovely lovely lovely, both to look at and to listen to – here is an OT – it is a kind of music-video – enjoy!!!!!!!
Typical Silke. Out of arguments? Start throwing straw men and insults out of your pram. Tell your opponent he’s wannabe Judeocider! That’ll shut him up, so there! Nehneh nehnenneh…
Yyaaawwn…
“my opponent” supports these people – any questions?
I think the smile of the TV-woman is very appealing and yes attitudes like her’s make me run out of arguments.
How disgusting is this – where is the outrage Ben White?!! Where are your human rights sentiments? Were is your call for your Arab friends to behave in a civilized way if they wish to be embraced unto the nations of the world? How can you condone this, as that is what your silence shouts out loud “I am a chooser of whose liberty and life to champion and I decree that if you do not catch my fancy you can be killed and the killers praised and I will say nothing about that” this is your message Ben White. Be a man and shout out loud to your friends that they cannot be your friends if they behave that way and explain to them that they cannot have freedom or a nation state to govern if they behave that way. Then maybe we can believe your statement that you are not a Jew hater. Until then be ashamed of yourself!
Not long ago I travelled from Tiberias to Netanya with some kids and we decided to count the minarets just to make the journey somewhat interesting. There are 200 minarets along that route……a 45 minute drive. So much for the Judaisation of Galillee. The reality is the opposite. One Arab village after another right across the Jezreel valley….each with 4 or 5 minarets just to make sure you notice. Mt Tabor, Deborah’s home and the site of a major battle against the Canaanites, as well as Christ’s transfiguration in the Christian tradition, is occupied by 3 or 4 Arab villages alone. You would not believe driving between Tiberias and Netanya,,,,and that means across Israel, that you were in a Jewish state.
Nearly 750,000 Israeli Jews now live outside of the green line. You don’t have a problem with that? Neither do I. But let that courtesy be extended to ALL who reside in Palestine, with EQUAL political and civic rights. Anything else is clearly racist discrimination.
While the majority of people who live in the WB are Arabs, they do not have ANY citizenship and are clearly second class human beings in what was once their own country (*).
You can drive through areas in Antwerp and believe you’re in a Jewish town. That should bother no one as all inhabitants of Antwerp have exactly the same rights.
To believe there is no â€Judiasation’ of the WB going is folly: the majority of settlers believe they have that right, nay duty even, as part of their covenant with G-d!
(*) Please don’t give me the Classic BS about how it wasn’t a Nation State: one rights aren’t predicated on being part of a state. I live here in Britain as a legal resident (but not a citizen) and I enjoy full equal rights.
Roger, you aren’t Roger Pearse, are you? If so, I have often used your Tertullian.org for my thesis.
Best wishes,
Z
Breaking news (well, sort of)…
Two settlements for the price of one, from Peace Now! subscription email:
“White once wrote “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are.””
Actually, his assertion that he isn’t (or doesn’t consider himself to be) an antisemite isn’t for him to say. The expansion of the EUMC Working Definition of Antisemitism makes it clear that it is for the victim to declare whether or not they have suffered from antisemitism, it isn’t for the alleged discriminator to say that they haven’t perpetrated the alleged offence. This is the position for the whole raft of UK anti-discrimination legislation.
Thus, Ben White is on shaky ground with his oft-repeated statement. As the cliche has it, we’ll be the judge of that.
As always Douglas Murray puts it all in perspective.
“But let that courtesy be extended to ALL who reside in Palestine, with EQUAL political and civic rights. Anything else is clearly racist discrimination.” – Gert
Quite so Gert. Give them equal political and civil rights. Let them have no fewer political rights than their brothers in Syria. Freedom of expression – as long as you don’t mind being machine-gunned in the street for your trouble – Give them Saudi Arabian ballot boxes and Iranian civil rights. I gather that such arrangements are acceptable in your eyes, as your excellent blog has never, to the best of my knowledge, criticized them.
That’s the paradox, Gert. Whenever Israel says that we need genuinely democratic neighbors in order to ensure a peaceful region (have you ever heard of two democracies at war?) we are told by well-meaning Europeans not to expect Western style democracies from the Arabs. In fact, the only place in the Middle East where Arabs take part in an authentic democracy is Israel – and that’s because they’re the minority.
However, from a purely personal point of view, and this is not official government policy, I have no objections to any Palestinians, who have proved themselves to be loyal and worthy of it over a suitable period of time, applying for Israeli citizenship. As in most other Western democracies, such applications should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Clearly, if the Israeli government comes to the conclusion that such applications are not being made in good faith, but as a way of causing harm to the State of Israel or an attempt to change Israel’s character as a Jewish democratic state, it should act appropriately, changing its policy or even in extreme cases withdrawing citizenship from those who attained it by way of deceit.
Daniel:
Balderdash and piffle. In several cases the West actively supported Arab dictators, see Mubarak, Israel’s best friend! House of Saud and pre-Kuweit Saddam Hussein. Also: Shah of Iran, back then best of friends with Israel. Or see also pre-revolution Ghaddafi, after he’d been â€brought back into the fold’.
No, Israeli government position is completely antithetical to that.
In a normal state citizenship isn’t dependent on â€loyalty’: of a â€good citizen’ can only be required to respect the Laws of that country. Anything else is the road McCarthyism and worse besides that.
“In a normal state citizenship isn’t dependent on â€loyalty’..”
The acquisition of citizenship by someone who is not a citizen, depending on which country we are talking about, is usually dependant on an applicant answering certain criteria. I believe in the US this may include demonstrating a knowledge of American history and civics as well as English.
There are many holders Oaths of allegiance are administered too. For example lucky potential Canadians vow:
“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen.”
No country is obliged to grant citizenship to an alien and every country has the right to decide who it wishes to accept and who not. Naturally, every Western Democracy has legislation to determine who is entitled to apply for citizenship and who isn’t. These laws can be changed by the parliaments of these countries and anyone feeling discriminated against can take his case to the appropriate courts.
PS
50 Syrians killed today Gert! Do you have any reaction to that? More than five and half thousand innocent Syrian civilians slaughtered since the beginning of that wonderful Arab Spring. Lucky that Assad isn’t Jewish – he’d really be getting some stick from Bridlington if he was.
Daniel
As a basic premise I learned it goes further than legislation.
Granting citizenship and/or residence permits with or without work permits is considered by states part of their sovereign rights (Hoheitsrechte) i.e. in theory they may exercise those rights according to their whim and mood. Only once citizenship has been granted a right has been established.
Of course there may be treaties and other rules and regulations but the basis remains that the state is free to act in that field the way it considers it to be right.
If that weren’t though occasional amnesties would be very hard to get to pass.
Daniel:
These are empty oaths: the moment the new citizen has obtained that citizenship there’s nothing that could stop him/her from becoming fiercely anti-monarchist or a vocal critic of the state in which he/she lives, as long as he acts within the law. There can be no distinction between â€natural born citizens’ or â€naturalised citizens’.
There you go again with your â€that’ Arab Spring, as if the Arab world is a monolith and the uprisings/revolutions that are happening there are all in concert and not happening in individual countries.
In Syria the dictator is seriously digging his heels in and a bloody, protracted civil war now seems inevitable. May Assad and his cronies suffer swift and decisive defeat but it’s not likely. You won’t find an â€anti-Zionist’ that will disagree with me on that but perhaps your own interest in Assad’s defeat may have more to do with the fact that Israel and Syria are sworn enemies, whereas the dictator next door (Mubarak) was Israel’s closest ally in the region? There, fortunately, the army decided by and large not to side with the regime and the people won their first battle.
You can quit with your â€is it because I is Joooish’ spiel.
Oh dear, Far Right Douglas Murray complaining about techniques adopted by the Left and seemingly coming to the defence of the EDL too!
This is the guy who wrote â€Why we need Neoconservatism’ (A: because we need it as much as a hole in the head?)
What a schmuck!
My dear Gert – I was driving home today pondering on my response to this post, one I knew you would make before I even arrived home to read it! How did I know? Because it is the standard rhetoric of you and the Ben Whites of society who see themselves as arbiters of what is right and wrong, self proclaimed owners of what they describe as caring, humane and liberal and hence declare those who don’t support them as uncaring with lack of humanity with a fundamentalist outlook. Well I declare this is enough of letting you get away with such rubbish. Funny that it is the self professed left wing secular humanists with an imperialistic socialist agenda who are in bed with the genocidal religious fundamentalists of this world with an international caliphate on the agenda. Well buster – not me, this lady is not for dictatorships, veils, domination by men, poverty or genocide that your fundamentalist bedfellows espouse and that you accept in your preparedness to allow the annihilation of Israel and the Jewish people to satisfy your inbred Jew hatred. Douglas Murray gets it and you know that and that is why you malign him.
So how many articles critical of Assad have you published since last year Gert?
I seem to recall your devoting an entire page to a clip of a loudmouthed Palestinian agitator shouting at soldiers who did absolutely nothing to him.
How many times have you condemned the Syrian regime on your lonely empty blog? Please direct me to the relevant pages.
By the way – can you show me any instances of your calling Mubarak a dictator or in any way condemning him before it became fashionable last year? Because he fell he suddenly becomes a Zionist!? If your Bridlington Greyhound football squad lose a game, do they become pro-Israel too?
What about Kaddafi? Did you ever condemn him before he fell? If so, please direct me to the article. Was he also our ally?
In short, you are a lazy hypocrite who waits for the final goal to be scored before deciding which team you support.
just as an aside – Gert forgot to mention that Assad kept the peace until all that spring gave Islamists’ hopes a leg up.
I’ve condemned dictatorships and oppressors the world around, Daniel, unlike the Zionist navel staring twit from Ma’ale Adumim that you are.
The “Palestinian agitator” was a peaceful protestor who gave one of these snot balls that pass for â€soldiers’ in the AOF a fine piece of his mind. Truth to power! You’re not only on the side of the oppressors, you also condemn those that protest against them. What does it make you? A banal, nationalistic, ethnocentric blot on humanity and on the wrong size of history too…
I’ve now unsubscribed from this thread, so I won’t be reading anymore of your dog poo.
Thanks be to God for that you imbecilic Jew hater.
“I’ve condemned dictatorships and oppressors the world around…”
Please direct me to your condemnations of any leader who is not Jewish. Please show me where you called Mubarak a Zionist ally or a dictator before the Arab Spring.,
Please direct me to all your condemnations of Assad and all other dictators. Everyone here is waiting Gert and I’ve sent you a personal mail so you can’t say you didn’t read this. We’re all waiting.
I don’t know how to do it but I’d love to see a betting pool where we could place bets on the outcome with the proceeds going to Richard who then can use it to wine and dine nicely after one of those ghastly events he reports on so conscientiously.
I’m willing to bet 5 € that Gert will not come with any proof of his condemnations.
I’m willing to bet another 5 that he’ll soon forget that he has been exposed as a liar and repeat his lie without shame on the next occasion.
I wish to apologize to any readers of this excellent blog, and indeed to its renowned author, for having apparently unwittingly banished Bridlington Gert.
Truthfully, I’m pretty flabbergasted myself by his last posting- not so much because of his use of the word “poo”, which I haven’t heard in almost forty years, but chiefly because of that total inability to answer such simple questions.
Returning to the theme of this page and perhaps this blog, I have no objections to people being anti-Semites or even espousing their views. I can think of no reason why everyone should like Jews, especially those living in the UK, and often wonder whether my own disdain for many characteristics of large parts of Anglo Jewry was not a contributing factor in that decision to move to Israel all those years ago.
Either way, if someone does not like Jews or Judaism, I think it is much healthier for all concerned that he be allowed to peacefully and legally express this aversion, rather than having to keep it bottled up inside, only to have this emotion reemerge as “anti-Zionism”.
I know that my old pal Gert is reading this, so I shall address him. I am also conscious of the anger and frustration building up inside him after he has failed to answer such simple questions posed to him by a Jewish settler of all people. For that reason and because I have grown to genuinely like him, an affection born perhaps of pity, but an affection none the less, I shall ask my questions once more:
1. How many times have you condemned the Syrian regime and its murder of 5,500 innocent civilians on your blog?
2. Can you show me a single instance of your having called Mubarak a dictator or in any way condemning him before it became fashionable last year?
3. Did you ever condemn Kaddafi him before he fell from power?
4. Have you ever condemned or attacked any world leaders who are not Jewish?
On the other hand, if you wish to ignore these questions, that’s alright too. It’s okay not to like us Gert it really is. You’re so much more authentic and credible when using words like snot balls than you are while cutting and pasting articles from other blogs about issues you don’t understand in lands where you’ve never been. Let it all hang out Gert my friend!
I always advise every budding essayist to start by writing about the world that he truly knows. Share with your readers what you’ve seen, what you’ve heard, people you’ve loved or hated, smells you’ve smelt, foods you’ve tasted, objects you’ve touched. After many years of unabashed plagiarism, I consider it wholly feasible that with Gert’s modest “snot balls” and “poo” an true author may finally be emerging. At last we shall savor the delights of that Gert, enjoyed only by his fellow Bridlingtonians. How does an unemployed anti-Semite who lives in a town without Jews fill up his day? How does his family take to his not very lucrative “anti-Israel” obsession? Shall the little Gerts follow in those enormous footsteps? Are there any friends? And if so, why do they never visit his excellent pages?
How sad if, because of a few of my difficult questions, this blog should be deprived of all of that.
PS
You’re going to have to offer better odds than evens, if you want anyone to take that bet, Silke.
I know Daniel I know
but this establishing betting pools with the blog author taking the proceeds is a pet project of mine which needs a lot of creative energy it it is ever going to come to something.
And as to Gert having self-banned once again – I remember a time when he did it on a weekly basis and never kept the promise. So we should expect him back soon unless traffic on the blog he most adores and which currently tries to resurrect itself should pick up.
BTW when that blog went into hibernation none of the “friends” he tried to make there followed him to his own blog with one exception and that was yours truly.
He’ll be back – the scoundrel! Like all Jew-haters.
They invariably return to the scene of the crime.
Have you seen White here talking about balance! He tries to deal with the accusation of anti-Semitism, http://vimeo.com/35760875
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