Malia Bouattia, Dr. Durgham Saif, Baroness Hussein-Ece, Dr. Yousef T. Jabareen, Ben White
There was a burning question at the back of my mind when two highly successful Israeli Arabs came to London today to tell a crowd of 100 people at the P21 Gallery how oppressive Israel is towards its Arab citizens which make up 20% of Israel’s population.
For one hour I sat listening to Israeli Arab MK Dr. Yousef T. Jabareen tell us how Israel “treats its indigenous people as second and third class citizens” and how “Israeli law is similar to the racial classification during racial apartheid in America” and how Israel is “a Jewish state for its Arab citizens but a democracy only for its Jewish citizens”.
He told us how there’s a big difference in the education, welfare and infrastructure budgets between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs. Nine to one, apparently.
I listened to Liberal Democrat Baroness Hussein-Ece OBE, who was chairing the event, complain that “a country that claims to be a democracy deprives people of freedom of speech”.
While Dr. Durgham Saif said “Israel is a fine democracy, but only for Jews” and how “Israel appropriates Palestinian land and Judaises it by transferring it to Jews” and that “We are the Indians of America”.
Then Malia Bouattia,the Black Students’ Officer of the National Union of Students, compared Israel’s apparent oppressive treatment of its Arab citizens to the UK’ “targeting of Muslims and pro-Palestine activists”. She claimed that “UK Muslims find their democratic freedoms are comprehensively stripped”.
And she seriously thinks that in this country “discussion about Palestine is all but illegitimate” which she blamed on “the Zionist and Neocon lobbies”.
Ben “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are” White was the final speaker. He referred to Israel as the “so-called Jewish state” before calling for Israel to become a “state of all it citizens, not a Jewish state”.
Then I had my arm up for another 55 minutes during the Q&A. The Baroness called everyone else in the room who wished to ask a question but ignored me. I asked if I could ask a question but she again ignored me. I then asked her why she was ignoring me and suggested she was doing it purposely to which she replied she didn’t know who I was.
So with two minutes left I rose and spoke. I just about managed to ask Dr. Yousef T. Jabareen how could he accuse Israel of oppressing its Arab citizens, of being undemocratic and of so underfunding the Israeli Arab education system when he himself was a Member of Parliament, a lecturer at the University of Haifa and Tel-Hai Academic College, had studied in Washington and was now here in London verbally attacking Israel?
I received such loud boos, hisses and abuse as I stood there that I swiftly took my seat. Needless to say I would have asked the same of Dr Durgham Saif, Professor at Al-Quds University in Abu-Dis, who also studied and lectured in Washington and who is a member of the Israeli Bar Association.
But by then I had already been shouted at by the Baroness for “disrespecting the meeting”.
In fairness to Dr Jabareen he listened to my question and answered, albeit unsatisfactorily. He simply complained that he was not allowed to visit the Al Aqsa Mosque and that many Israeli Arab leaders were banned from leaving Israel.
Meanwhile P21 itself is quickly becoming a hub of hate with constant anti-Israel lectures to the wider public. During the Q&A a young Romanian woman said she loved Jewish culture but not what Israel was doing to the Palestinians and she asked what she could do to help. Malia Bouattia said she should join the BDS movement.
One audience member did ask why we don’t hear from the other side to which Ben White, laughably, responded that Israel’s message is dominant in the media so there is no need to have any balance at events like today’s.
In 20 years time the lunatics in these audiences lapping up this extreme anti-Israel propaganda will have taken over the asylum so I just don’t understand why our supposed Jewish leadership organisations (JLC, BICOM, ZF, Board of Deputies etc.) are abdicating all responsibility where these horrendous events are concerned.
RichardMillett's Blog 
well done richard for bearing witness
Well done! I despair at what has happened to free debate in this country, especially when it comes to Israel in particular and at universities in general. Anyone considered remotely controversial is either shouted down or not invited to speak at all.
Totally ludicrous that the behaviour at this meeting proves to be the exact replica of what Israel is wrongly accused of. It is high time that Arab MKs who travel the world badmouthing Israel were suspended from the Knesset in the same way anyone from virtually every other country in the world would be.
LOL! He should not complain (my guess, falsely) that he cannot visit Al Aqsa. In all fairness, if some citizens of Israel cannot do it, namely Jews, they should stand in solidarity and refuse to visit Al Aqsa, even if allowed to do so.
Then, which Arab leaders are not allowed to leave Israel? Does he mean leave Israel for an enemy country, meeting terrorists and performing high treason? Damn! Is there a country where this is welcome?
Why can’t Persian Jews leave IslamoFascist Iran?
Thanks Richard for your important work. The Board of Deputies and other Jewish organistions in the UK that are meant to defend and support the Jewish people have no concept of understanding that the “holocaust did not begin with the gas chambers it began with words ” ( Irwin Cotler ex justice minister of Canada ) They prefer to be silent rather than challenge the slander and hope it will all go away. An interesting eg from the past when the language of British ministers seemed to filter down and have had a direct link to the pogrom in Manchester in 1946 http://netanyalynette.blogspot.co.il/2014/10/james-parkes-from-1945-slightly-mad.html.
It is up to individuals to counter the influence of these anti Semites. One way each person can make a small difference is by promoting Israel’s positive actions towards its Arab citizens and others . Publicising Israel’s weekly positive news at http://www.verygoodnewsisrael.blogspot.com would be helpful. .
Richard
Baroness Ece may not of known who you were before the meeting , but was obviously primed by White or one of the others at the start . That’s why you were not called on to ask a question . How telling that these polemicists have the gall to question Israel’s democratic values and free speech while shutting down your right to question the veracity of their case . You trouble the likes of White and others who prefer to speak in an echo chamber of sychophants .
Excellent work as always . Like you say what’s the point of BICOM and the other Machers if they cannot be bothered to confront this relentless propaganda and disinformation .
About UK Jewish orgs, most of them have the ancient mentality: duck and wait for the attacks to end as if they defend, they will be attacked even more. They would rather feed the crocodile…
The new challenge for them is to defend Israel whatever the cost, because, whatever they do, the crocodile will eat them as well.
Thanks for being there.
I agree, Jose. It’s the ghetto mentality.
2000 years of persecution is certainly one of their best excuses. But it is still an excuse.
Good man Richard. Not many positives, but here is one: We have all seen this type of toytown bolshevik behaviour before, but it should be remembered that it is ultimately self-defeating in the eyes of the silent majority, certainly within developed countries. Which is presumably why it is quietly tolerated by the gov, and why the Board of Deputies apparently think it does not warrant attendance or a dignified response.
Like much of what passes for public debate in the world of haters, perhaps the best that we can do (as you are) is document and publicise it? This is also the great importance of sites like Memri and YouTube – they show up close what anti-Israel / anti-semitic opinion formers are saying to their over-enthusiastic captive audiences, and as we know it is neither pretty or civilised.
Israel’s more positive mission and influence can be presented separately and will quite righty shine in comparison. Further, I think it is important to remember the role that economic deprivation plays in all of this. Waves of anti-semitism have historically been closely linked to economic cycles. That is why they are useful to failing governments, and people who cannot understand these things for themselves.
So tell me what exactly we,p are supposed to do? What is the plan?
Jose, I think you hit upon a profound truth. The historically justified ghetto mentality has preserved the faith and human lives. But in the totalising information age of the internet the game has changed. There has never been a more effective time for Israel (the people and the land, religious or secular) to be a light unto the nations. What I see online is this slowly taking shape almost despite what anyone wishes on either side of the various arguments. The seriousness and accelerating globalisation of the threats facing both Israel and the diaspora makes this process all the more urgent.
Again a first class piece of reporting – hats off to Mr Millett. One can only be impressed by his resolve and courage entering the lion’s den so regularly. (and indeed discovering the location ,and attending these gatherings).
The ongoing question remains: why is it impossible to have a rational debate with the “Israel haters?”
Is their case so fragile that they will countenance no argument?
Are they so concerned with the (lack of) strength of their argument that they cannot accept any opposing argument?
Whether it is mass street protest or inter-personal debate it seems that “they” cannot cope with reason – and hence their aggression.
Unfortunately this is now the norm for meetings on college campuses.
We live in a sad and dangerous world and Mr Millet’s conclusion reflects my own very real concern- what kind of world will our grandchildren inherit?
Wasn’t it Zionist pressure that stopped a legitimate debate at a university in regards to the legitimacy of the Israeli state. Yes it was, funny how that’s ok though?
Wasn’t it cancelled by police for security fears?
“Legitimate” means “denonising”, “delegitimising” and “applying double standards”? Then the police did well to prevent thqt antisemitic hatefest.
Legitimate means constitutional,permissible,lawful, how is it not democratic to be able to discuss such things?
LOL, stupid! it is unreasonable to do it like antisemites do it, on unreasonable premises.
Delegitimising Israel is antisemitc. And this conference was nothing but that, antisemitic delegitimisation of Israel. No doubt every good antisemite approves it.
Without being sycophantic, it is true about the unbalanced media representation of the bullying tactics of the Israeli state. What one musnt confuse is the Israeli state with Israelis .there are many Israelis that find the treatment of Palestinians abhorrent. The vile right wing politics of the Knesset simply does not represent them!
I don’t know if you are being sycophantic. But antisemiti, that is pretty sure.
Oh my the ol “anti Semite” card one someone talks truth ! That’s a new one. Can’t you come up with some more powerful as hominem than that ?
Unsruprisingly the antisemite rise the “antisemitic card” argument. Oh it wasn’t an argument, btw!
As far as you are concerned, “antisemite” is a descriptive term, not an ad hominem.Just like a guy with an IQ of 60 would be called an idiot.
And there are probably more citizens of Israel who find the treatment of the Palestinians by their own elected leadership – Hamas and the PA – far more abhorrent although you and your fellow-travelers who claim to support the Palestinians obviously think it is quite acceptable because you never criticise it.
But what kind of leadership steals international aid funds and uses them to line their own pockets, build luxury villas, and buy weapons with which to attack a sovereign member of the United Nations?
What kind of leadership steals construction materials intended for building homes, schools, medical facilities and the suchlike and uses them to build rocket launching pads, underground bunkers and control centres – often under hospitals – and tunnels through which to attack Israeli civilian targets?
What kind of leadership uses / forces its citizens to become human shields in the event of war?
And where’s the opposition? What happens to people who oppose Hamas, who think that the lives of the ordinary people in Gaza would be better if these international aid funds were devoted to welfare instead of warfare?
You may dislike the current Israeli government but all citizens of Israel have an equal vote and the make-up of the Knesset reflects the collective will of the people – the people who live there, who know what it’s like to live under siege conditions surrounded by people who want to destroy them and who’ve been trying to do so since 1948.
In the last election – despite the intervention of Obama – the majority of the population chose not to vote for the left just as in the last UK election people chose not to vote for the left of centre parties. That’s called democracy. You obviously prefer left-wing dictatorship.
So given the choice, where would you prefer to live – in Israel where there is freedom of speech, freedom to oppose the government, freedom to elect the people you want or in Gaza or the West Bank under the rule of Hamas or the Palestinian Authority, neither of whom brooks any opposition?
I don’t know if you’re spouting anti-Israel propaganda and making false allegations out of ignorance or prejudice. If the former, then I suggest you do a bit more research before applying finger to keyboard. If the latter, you should be honest enough to admit it.
Ignorance at McKenzie’s level doesn’t exist. It is called antisemitism.
I SUPPORT PALESTINIANS RIGHTS BECAUSE OF THE VILE RIGHT WING ISRAELI STATES OBVIOUS DISTASTEFUL DYNAMICS IN THEIR SUBJUGATION OF FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS!
Let me rephrase. You support ‘Palestinians’ because you’re a vile antisemitic right-wing nutcase.
Mark, Ultra Right Wing Islamofascists aren’t Human. They are TERRORISTS.,
See 9/11, 7/7 2004 London transport, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, Boston Marathon, Pam Am 103, Metrojet, Lee Rigby, San Bernardino, Sydney, Copenhagen, Ottawa, Beslan, Bamiyan, Mumbai India, Nairobi Kenya…
Yes but bear in mind that when originally constituted the organisers at Southampton limited access to the debate for pro-Israel speakers and this was the major reason that there was some pressure to cancel the event.
As far as the police were concerned I am sure that they were concerned that the meeting would descend into chaos as so often happens.
See my question above!
I must be honest – I do not understand how anyone can find much pro-Israel bias in current western media coverage. Perhaps this is, as it were, ‘in the eye of the beholder’. It is certainly not in mine however.
Mark Mckenzie illustrates the problem. First, the derogatory tone when using the word “Zionist”. Zionism means Jewish self-determination, something that should be the right of all peoples, EXCEPT, it seems when this refers to the Jewish people. This was certainly the case when France became a Republic: to the individual Jew everything, to the Jews as a nation, nothing. Mckenzie’s position also reveals not only de-legitimacy, but accusations of “bullying”, but provides no evidence. This is because no evidence is required when it comes to Israel or Zionism, as it is something that “we all know.” Notice too, to avoid being accused of anything nasty, Mckenzie appeals that we must not confuse the Israeli state with the Israelis. This is a similar position to, “some of my best friends are Jews.” If some (good) Israelis agree with me, then I cannot be accused of anything.
Second, despite the anti-Israel western media, Mckenzie wants to assure us that it is the “bullying tactics of the Israeli state. Once again, there is no need for any example as to how and what constitutes this bullying, other than the fact that Israelis voted for a particular government which the Europeans, amongst others, do not like. Strangely, they do not seem to be able to comprehend that both Hertzog and Lapid, have much in common and if we were to examine exactly what the late Rabin said, Netanyahu is far more to the “left”. Indeed, Rabin never agreed to a Palestinian state in any form; instead he accepted something “less than a state”.
I do not understand what Mckenzie means “without being sycophantic”. I do find it glaring the avoidance of noting that since Rosh Hashana, murderous attacks on Israelis have occurred daily resulting in the murders of 30 Israelis and seriously injuring hundreds. Therefore, Israel is forced into taking action to protect its citizens from incitement from Abbas, Hamas etc and that this incitement is based on antisemitic lies, fabrications and libels, resulting in the deliberate use of children to carry out these grotesque attacks. But, when it comes to dead Jews, especially dead Israeli Jews, this is irrelevant compared with “bullying Israel.”
As Ban Ki Moon assures us, “it’s the occupation” and “human nature” and therefore legitimate and understandable to murder Jews and it is totally unacceptable that Israel is determined to protect its citizens, even if it means inconveniencing the Palestinians who are not Israeli citizens. It also inconveniences Israeli citizens, but who cares! Strangely, a number of polls suggest, that the Palestinians living in Jerusalem want to live under Israel and not the PA. Indeed, when Lieberman suggested that Arabs living in the “triangle” be permitted to be included under the PA,there was an uproar! No, they want to live under Israeli “occupation” where their conditions are the best in the Middle East; and they know their lives would be miserable under the corrupt kleptocracy of Abbas. Indeed, the leaders of Hamas and the PA always use “Israeli” hospitals as their choice. They are not stupid but they do think (and they are right) that the West is utterly stupid for believing their lies, told in English, while saying the opposite in Arabic.
It’s curious, however, that given 2000 years of Christian and Muslim persecution, the Jewish people (and many other peoples) did not enact the murderous rage exhibited by the Arabs, which commenced from 1920 to 1948, when there was NO “Occupation”, NO “Settlements” and NO State of Israel. Indeed, the only abuses going on was being done to the Jews, who are “second class” dhimmis. This dispute is not about land or rights. From 1920, the idea of a Jewish state and that Jews are equals is not just abhorrent. It is shameful and humiliating to the Arab which is why the conflict is Arab-Israeli (and not Israeli-Palestinian); and it is about destroying the Jewish State. This is not even remotely hidden. Read the two PLO Charters; and the Hamas Charters. The PLO was founded in the mid-1960s BEFORE the “Occupation”, so what exactly was to be “liberated”? The answer: the whole of the Jewish State of Israel which is why the Arabs refuse to acknowledge and recognise the Jewish state. I suppose Israel insisting on this recognition is another example of Israeli “bullying.”
It is about time Mckenzie and others stopped treating the Arabs as if they can be excused their agency and responsibility. The Arabs are treated as if they are not equal to western society and therefore they cannot be expected to behave in the way western societies behave. It is this “colonialist” mentality that encourages Arab murderousness. It is also because why would they West fear 14 million Jews, compared with the 1.6 billion Muslims and all that oil etc. The West fear the Arabs; the West hate the Jews and have done so for 2000 years. This week, it has been nauseating to listen and watch the world’s meaningless words for the 6 million Jews they allowed to be murdered, while at the same time, excoriating and singling out the 6 million Jews – sorry, Israeli Jews they clearly hate.
Mark McKenzie illustrates nothing but an alternative dialogue shocking as it may be there is one
So long as the facts used in that “alternative dialogue” do not themselves only exist in an alternative universe, your point would be well-taken. Perhaps you might try to respond to the fact-based points raised in judhabenzion’s long and thoughtful post. And if your response requires a measure of fantasy, invention or distortion to overcome the facts through rhetoric, rather than posting that it, you might wish instead to reconsider your position altogether.
I never thougt “antisemitic” could be translated as “alternative”. Novlang?
Correct our so called leaders are 100% responsible which is why we must pressure them everytime we can on social media and at meeting JLC are scum bastards particularly
Responsible for what? And if they are scum bastards why would you think they can do anything anyway?
This is typical of the Jewish community. Because the world has gone mad someone in the community has to be blamed.
What do you expect them to do? Take a Kalashnikov to every PSC meeting?
So I repeat. What would YOU do? What is the plan? if you have the answer to anti-Israel, anti-Zionist propaganda and lies, then please make this available to the BoD and JLC.
Mark, you don’t want an alternative dialogue! You want an unopposed podium to demonise Jews and make excuses for their deaths at the hands of the Palestinians. No different to Nazis, obviously!
But then read about the the hero of the Palestinians, namely the Egyptian, Haj Amin Al Husseini (Yasser Arafats uncle, and co founder of Fateh), who massacred Jews long before the re establishment of the state of Israel, and who was a natural ally of Hitler and the Nazis. In fact, he became close friends with Eichmann, Himmler and Hess…..as testified in the transcripts of the Nuremberg trials by Eichmann’s deputy! He also commanded Himmlers Bosnian Muslim Waffen SS. Handschar division, killing tens of thousands in Hungary!
It goes without saying exactly who you and McKenzie would support…..
tiring,base accusations,i beleive it was either the jewish terror group irgun or stern gang that also tried to side with the nazis,i also have read that they trained with mussolinis fascists…
No doubt you read that in Mein Kampf II.
TRUTH HURTS RIGHT,I REALISE COGNITIVE DISSONANCE COMES INTO PLAY HERE TOO.
If truth hurted, you would be in terrible pain here. The truth is that antisemitic neo-Nazis don’t feel anything.
mark, This Youtube Nakba is for you.
Newsreel: 0:30 Shitler meets with his pal the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem
but rather than all this poorly tried deflection,the dynamic is all about stopping the vile right wing israeli government and their revisionist politic from brutally occupying palestine…
What about facing your vile antisemitism, for once?
mark, Right Wing? What’s more Right Wing than ISIS, Al Qada, Boko Haram, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, Fascist Iran, Saudi Arabia, Hamass, Hezbullah, Al Nusra, Al Shabab?
Wrong
This particular dynamic should be about civilised discussion and argument rather than descending to intimidation and aggression
Much as we would wish we cannot necessarily affect the political issues in the I/P dialogue but at least we should be able to argue rationally and not behave as a rabble in these meetings.
Further we should be careful in this kind of comment thread to try to remain civil even if we strongly disagree and not trade epithets and insults.
That behaviour solves nothing except to make each side of the argument even more intransigent.
Hi Mark,
You talk about the:
“..legitimate debate at a university in regards to the legitimacy of the Israeli state..”
I would be interested to know in which respect you consider this debate to be legitimate. Obviously, it is legal to discuss whether any country should exist or whether any person should live. However, I’m sure you’d agree that were someone to advocate or even raise facilitate debate regarding whether, for example, all Christians in the Middle East should be massacred or whether Portugal has a right to exist, these debates would be legal though illegitimate.
Why on earth should anyone be debating the legitimacy of the State of Israel? Why not debate the legitimacy of every state in the world? Why is there anything more inherently illegitimate about the existence the State of Israel that her right to exist should be debated before Australia which precedes her alphabetically or the US which came into existence long before her? Who decided which states’ legitimacy should be debated first and according to which criteria?
Bravo Marks! You just understood what double standards of antisemitism are. See above, where I have explained that to the antisemitic troll well before.
as best I remember I’ve never read anything doubting the legitimacy of any of the other “inheritor” states of the Ottoman Empire.
As far as I am aware there is endless moaning about their borders having been drawn not careful enough (as if any of the currently stable seeming borders of European countries owe their crooked shape to careful line drawing – unless of course you consider massacres via battle and/or displacements the superior line drawing process. In fact if such a statistic would be possible I’d put my bet that establishing EU-states’ current borders caused more bloodshed than those drawn by ruler. )
But other than endless accusations because of the rulers used in the process I am not aware of any legitimacy discussions of those states.
Now why not Irak, Jordan, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon etc. etc. but Israel alone?
It can’t be that she is a late-comer, because then for example the question of South-Sudan’s legitimacy would also increase blood pressures all over the world.
Richard, I applaued you for the wonderful work you are doing. However, it is not right that you go alone to these meetings. We need numbers, so next time some of us should accompany you. Ws.need to show that you are not alone.
Any Video of this Ultra Right Wing Islamofascist meeting?
Well done Richard,Wish there were more people involved.
yes I agree daniel marks,why not debate the legitimacy of the british state too,also america,the gross colonial powers need looking into for sure…
its called free speech and open debate,simple as ,oh but wait that now makes me “anti christian” right ?
Why not? But they’re not. They’re only debating Israel’s legitimacy. Why?
WHY,I DONT KNOW BUT AS ACADEMICS I PRESUME THEY FEEL ITS WORTHY OF FREE SPEECH AND DEABATE,ITS A DEBATE,WHY ARE PEOPLE AFRAID OF DEBATE…?
It seems you qre afraid to discuss your antisemitism.
LOL! With whom do you expect to debate the legitimacy of UK, USA, France, China…? I mean, what nutcases?
Your answer is purely rethorical. Since you know nothing can happen out of that asshattery.
Please Joe, try another alias!
WHY,I DONT KNOW BUT AS ACADEMICS I PRESUME THEY FEEL ITS WORTHY OF FREE SPEECH AND DEABATE,ITS A DEBATE,WHY ARE PEOPLE AFRAID OF DEBATE…?
Let’s discuss your antisemitism, unless you are afraid of that debate.
Wow,perhaps it is you Jose who is actually the anti Semite,you are fixated with the terminology and you are aware of “projection” in psychology right?
FREE PALESTINE FREE ISRAEL FROM THE LOATHESOME LIKUD PARTY .
LOL! Joe, please don’t try demantics on me!
Jose,you need to relax,there are people in this world that don’t think like you,they are anti Israeli state… 😂
Hey, Joe, you need to stop hiding your antisemitism behind what amounts to antisemitism. It doesn’t change anything. BBeing anti-Israel is being antisemitic. As if one would be anti-American just because he doesn’t like its government.
I EXPECT LEARNED MEN AND WOMEN,ACADEMICS TO DEBATE THE LEGITIMACY OF BRITAIN AND ITS BRUTAL COLONIAL HISTORY..FASCINATING STUFF…
I expect antisemites to accept debate about their antisemitism. Don’t you?
You seem fixated,it makes one wonder what you are projecting,it leads one to think that you Jose are in fact anti life,!
FREE PALESTINE FREE GAZA FREE ISRAEL !
You seem ti be fixated in Israel… as all antisemites. Maybe a shrink could help. Although it is doubtful: antisemitism is the wordt of addictions. Very few of those stricken ever kick the habit. Free Gaza and the occupiedJudea and Samaria from the monsters that rule them!
Jose has your anti SEMITISM infected you for long?
LOL! Joe, your childish qnswer to the versy serious accusation of antisemitism proves you have no respect for it, further showing you’re an antisemite.
You don’t don’t why? You don’t want to hazard a guess why Israel is singled out for such a debate? Go on stretch yourself a bit.
gosh look I’ve come out and said that I dont approve of my own countries history i must therefore be a self hating christian right, an “anti christian” bigot …
Yes, what makes you an antisemite is you anti-Israel bigotry, delegitimisation, demonising an double standards.
Is there any other country for which you do that? No? Then you’re a clear antisemite, exposing your racism to an audience that know better than the usual idiots you preach.
thanks for keeping us informed
you like to attack and repeat yourself,you seem very aggressive in your approach,you will have no success in intimidating me with your base accusations,since living in Israel many moons ago I will forever support the Palestinians right to equality in life.
FREE PALESTINE FROM THE ZIONIST REVISIONISM OF THE LOATHESOME LIKUD PARTY… SHA LOM…
Free “Palestine”? It is free since 1948. That’s why it was renamed Israel!
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your succinct reply. Are there, in your your opinion, any states anywhere in the world whose existence is clearly and indisputably justified? If so, which ones?
Marks flogging a dead horse. Joe’s double-standards of antisemitism have already been exposed. No need to kill him a second time.
To me Mark seems to be very keen on STATES getting punished by legal means. If that is so how does he propose to overcome the problem that as best I know international courts can only judge on states who are willing to get judged.
Is that maybe so because according to Quentin Skinner the state is a fiction albeit a useful one?
(his lectures on that point are available on iTunes)
I think teaching us all a bit on such complicated and confusing issues would be very much to Mark’s taste. (and unless he has listened to all that stuff already catching up will keep him busy for a long long time, a time during which he’ll have no extra energy left to spout hatred)
good question.I’ll come back to you on that one.
Try to answer first the question of why Israel. And the of why Israel first and foremost.. If not for your vile antisemitism, of course.
One would like to think that Monaco hasnt been too much of a bully in its history,also the republic of iceland seem to get things right..
LOL! But Israel has been bullied by about everyone else. So?
Let me make a list of bullies you ignore totally: ‘Palestinians’, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, China, Russia, USA, UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, etc.
Oy ve! You have to start somewhere, don’t you? But curiously you start and
stop at Israel, the victim of all the bullies I mentioned above.
Antisemitism is worse than heroin addiction.
Monaco hasn’t had missiles lobbed onto it from neighboring states/enclaves. If it did, then Monaco would be fighting back too.
Israel like all other Civilized nations has the Right to Resist Islamofascism.
By international law Palestine also has the right to resist the vile occupation of the despicable Israeli state.
Like the Yemen has rights to defend itself against the nasty Wahhabis Saudi Arabian onslaught !
By internatiinal law, ‘Palestinians’ occupy a territory given to Jews.
Mark, Jews were in the Land of Israel BEFORE the bandit who Muslims call Mooohammed came on the scene 1,400 years ago. So called Paleswinians are invaders, thieves, who demand to keep their ill gotten gain. But the Israelis are NOT the unarmed Jews of Medina or WW2.
BTW Mark, If Israel, Zionism were “the problem”, then Muslims would be living in peace with NON-Jews, NON-Israelis, NON-Zionists.
Muslims would be living in peace with Hindus, Bahais, Buddhists, Christiains, Zoroastrians and other sects of Islam (Sunni and Shiite), but they are NOT.
Whilst I am not acquainted with Mark at all, he seems to me to be an intelligent and thoughtful individual. It goes without saying that as a “right wing” Israeli and a resident of a Judean city, I disagree with many of Mark’s ideas and opinions.
I simply asked the gentleman whether in his opinion there are any states anywhere in thev world whose existence is clearly and indisputably justified.
I’m certain that after a little consideration he will provide me with a reasoned response.
In the meantime I see no reason not to remain calm and avoid tedious ad hominem attacks.
LOL! I would have been astonished that you did not find some way to support an obvious antisemite, Marks.
By the way there is no ad hominem attack in calling an antisemite by his name. Nort more than there is in callling a Nazi, a Nazi, a cat, a cat…
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your reply. You seem to have adopted the same policy as myself of ignoring the troll. I commend you for so doing.
Just to be clear, you consider about 400,000 people (out of a total of about seven billion) to be living in states whose existence is clearly and indisputably justified, while the other 99.99% – approximately – are citizens of states the legitimacy of which should justifiably be a matter for discussion and question.
Is that correct?
I hadn’t thought of the numbers involved at all,they were simply the first two countries that come to mind,with more thought on the dynamic I’ll come back with more .
But still no answer for even the second. Just Israel has to be dedtroyed.
LOL! You both have adopted the same ‘policy’ to ignore what bothers you. Since one is an antisemite, I would mind putting myself in the same category.
But not Marks.
Yes, Monaco and Iceland are the first countries that come to most peoples minds. Looking forward to the full list.
It seems you ask the same question to a lot of people then, is it a particular subject that you are deeply interested in?
FREE PALESTINE FREE ISRAEL FROM THE LOATHESOME CLAWS OF LIKUD
We see here clearly the ‘intelligence’ Marks sees in you. A complete moron having nothing but slogan-thinking..
Mark, Chant this…
From the River to the Sea,
Paleswine Will Never Be!
Edward
Do I take from your statement as a human being that you would like to see the despicable oppression of the indigenous Palestinian culture oppressed indefinitely?
Since when Arabs are indigenous from that area? I thought they invaded it just like North Africa… History is wrong?
Mark, The despicable paleswinian terrorist cult must be put down like the rabid dog it is. Paleswiniaism, as with Islamofascism, only brings death and destruction to the entire world.
Proof of the depravity of paleswinianism is seen with the assassination of US Senator Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, the attack on the 1972 Olympics, the paleswinian celebration of the 9/11/01 sneak attack on the US, their use of women and children as human shields in the summer of 2014, the teaching of children to crave death over life, the murder of gay teens and summary execution of suspected informers whose bodies were dragged through the streets behind motorcycles.
Tibet seems fairly innocuous,as do Fiji,Tonga and Samoa.Madagascar ,Mauritius and reunion … At the end of the day,the list goes on and on.
The legitimacy of Others in my humble opinion is definitely open for debate.
FREE PALESTINE FREE ISRAEL
FREE EURABIA from RAPEfugees.
TIBET??? Good comparison. Tibet is disappearing because it hasn’t done what it had to to: defend. Unlike Israel.
Sure Marks, Lichtenchtein, Luxembourg too!
Hi Mark,
No, I have no recollection of asking that question before. Perhaps, after you’ve finished your list of countries (other than Monaco and Iceland) whose existence is clearly and indisputably justified, you might remind me as to when I asked that question to “a lot of people”,
Have a great week, and looking forward to that list.
You mentioned my answer being the same as other people’s I therefore presumed you had asked the same question before!
FREE PALESTINE FREE ISRAEL FROM THE DARKSIDE OF LIKUD!
FREE THE WORLD FROM THE DARKSIDE OF ISLAMOFASCISM and SOCIALISM!
FREE IDIOTS FROM IDIOCY!
I tried it on you but I obviously failed!
LOL! No, you can remember repeating yourself, Marks. Because you bring nothing new in your way to handle antisemites. The way thas Jews tried for 2000 years with the big success we know.
Hmm..We seem to have gotten somewhat distracted. My purpose was merely to comment that both Monaco and Iceland are the types of countries that spring to many peoples’ minds.
Anyway, back to topic; I was wondering which other states in the world there are, in your opinion, whose existence is clearly and indisputably justified.
You complained early in this excellent page that the question of a state’s legitimacy is a legitimate topic of discussion and that you were unable to understand those who labeled you an anti-Semite, or worse, for raising the topic.
I think that I rose to that challenge and made a courteous endeavor to engage you in discussion of the topic. I was scorned by the troll for so doing and trying to treat you as an intelligent thoughtful person, worthy of respect.
Clearly, before discussing the legitimacy of any one state it was important to determine which states you do consider legitimate and by what criteria. You were able to name two tiny countries with a total combined population of less than Bristol. I asked you whether that was it, you said that you would return with more. Ostensibly unable to so do have reverted to a writing style reminiscent of the troll’s with capital letters and awkwardly constructed slogans. All that is missing is his infantile “LOL”.
The obvious paradox seem to be that though you complain of not being able to discuss the topic calmly and intelligently, when offered the opportunity to so do you prefer to resort to the exact same style of writing of which you complain. I shall leave you to exchange capitalized cheap shots and one liners with the troll and wish you all the best from the Judean mountains.
AU REVOIR MON AMI BON CHANCE
One has the friends he deserves, indeed!
MAL CHANCE!
LOL! Marks, what is not missing is your repeated infantile attempt to reason with an antisemite.
All what you say has been said by me before and went unanswered because angisemites cannot answer questions about their racism.
Uou only kegitimate them, as frightened Jews have done all their lives.
If it was nearly as bad as their lies, Israel wouldn’t even let them back in!
Jose, I love that ‘demantics’. Presumably it ,means “demented and fake semantics”?
Ha! No, it just means I’m typing on a small screen on a shaky bus or that I forgot to put my glasses.