Introducing the Batsheva Ensemble Dance Company from Israel who are currently touring the UK.
In her review of their recent performance at The Lowry in Salford Sally Cinnamon writes of Batsheva:
“The talent, maturity and complexity of the dancer’s abilities belie their tender age. Dancer, Oz Shoshan prologues the show as the audience filters to their seats. He’s dancing alone on stage. It looks improvised, it might be choreographed, either way, it’s the best opening I’ve seen in recent years and a sample of things to come.”
But, as ever, when an Israel production comes to town so do those who harbour a particular hatred towards the Jewish state and its Jewish citizens. Cinnamon writes:
“a couple of the protesters infiltrate the performance and bring proceedings to a temporary halt. It’s a sour start to the evening and although everyone has the right to protest, it seems bizarrely worthless to be hollering remonstration at young dancers.”
Cinnamon signs off her review:
“The show is on tour throughout the UK and has been harboured by protest at every venue so far. It shouldn’t put you off. There were those outside in the cold that protested and there were those of us watching that warmed to some of the very best young dancers in the world.”
This Friday the company are performing their Deca Dance at the Brighton Dome. Here’s the trailer:
There was due to be a Saturday performance, but The Dome pulled it due to concern over security. Their idea is to beef up security for the one night instead of spreading it over the two nights. This is a shame because Jews who live in Brighton who keep the Shabbat and who bought tickets for the Saturday night performance cannot go to the one on Friday night.
The usual accusation being thrown at the Batsheva Ensemble by the protesters is that it is government funded and, therefore, being used by the Israeli government to promote Israel in a good light. If this isn’t pure anti-Semitism then where were the protests interrupting British and American government funded shows when those countries went into an allegedly illegal war in Iraq?
An anti-Israel activist who recently spoke at a meeting in Brighton about disrupting the Batsheva Ensemble said:
“I do support a non-violent disruption of the Batsheva performance. I encourage everyone to go and protest there. I would support people in non-violently disrupting a performance that I don’t think should go ahead, the performance needing the funding that it does.”
Here’s the audio:
So once again it seems people will be having their evening’s entertainment disrupted having paid good money for tickets. It happened at the Royal Albert Hall when the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra performed. It happened when Israel’s National Theatre (Habima) performed The Merchant of Venice at The Globe.
Now it is happening to the Batsheva Ensemble, a young dance group making a name for themselves on the world stage.
Incredibly, no charges were pressed against any protesters who were taken out after disrupting despite those protesters acting contrary to Section 68 (1) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, which states:
“A person commits the offence of aggravated trespass if he trespasses on land and, in relation to any lawful activity which persons are engaging in or are about to engage in on that or adjoining land, does there anything which is intended by him to have the effect—
a)of intimidating those persons or any of them so as to deter them or any of them from engaging in that activity,
(b)of obstructing that activity, or
(c)of disrupting that activity.
It is about time the venues and police acted by pressing charges.
RichardMillett's Blog 
Unfortunately, the Israel-bashing has become such a natural thing in UK that no one, including a large part of the UK Jewish community, sees the illegal aspect of such bashing.
A day will come when even these illegal actions won’t be enough to satisfy the hate in the hearts of these despicable people. Be ready for the UK equivalent of a Kristallnacht.
Jse
the Kristallnacht needed quite a bit of support and organisation by the then ruling government. Without that such a nationwide outrage is hard to imagine.
Im Herbst 1938 wurden noch 15 Gemeindeangehörige gezählt. Ende Oktober 1938 wurden die Gemeindeglieder mit polnischer Staatsangehörigkeit abgeschoben. Beim Novemberpogrom 1938 wurde die Synagoge im Inneren zerstört (s.u.)
http://www.alemannia-judaica.de/rendsburg_synagoge.htm
It says that that town of nowadays maybe 25.000 people (back then 10000?) had less than 15 Jews left living there when a group of guys took a van/truck to drive there from as best I remember Kiel, a bit less than 40 km, to wreak havock. Somebody must have told them that there is something they should go for in that out of the way place. In the piece it says it was a guy from Rendsburg who bombed the synagogue but I read the story of his helpers going on their excursion years ago in a library book by some local hobby-historian and he sounded both credible and knowledgeable i.e. it weren’t single haters going on a rampage inspired by something, no whoever was in charge made sure it happened in as many places as possible.
Who could give such orders in Britain today? who has the organisation for it?
Really, Silke? Kristallnacht required some help? And Merah required just to have no care for life… SO WHAT? Nothing, Jews die the same in both cases.
Here we go. Yusef wastes no time bringing up the Holocaust. This compulsive alarmism and catastrophising is nothing short of pathological.
Yusef: Do you know what happened during Kristallnacht? Do you honestly think that British paramilitaries and civilians, watched by the police, are going to burn down synagogues all over the country, destroy and plunder Jewish shops and businesses, ransack Jewish homes, hospitals and schools, murder, arrest and imprison thousands of Jews, putting them in concentration camps. You’re insane.
pogroms have happened not only in Germany
if I were a Jew and would witness those idiots sniffing around for ever more targets I’d fear pogrom is next also …
First, my hame is Jose, not Yusef, a name that proves your antisemitism.
Your reaction is exactly the same as those who said that of the Germans who would NEVER burn down synagogues.
You are not only insane, you are also very stupid and very RACIST.
In France, no one would have believed that someone would kill Jewish children because they were Jews. But it happened despite all the ridiculous racist ignoramuses that said it was not possible.
Jose is sadly correct on all points.Don`t underestimate as idiots these `protesters ` they are footsoldiers testing the British waters to see how far they can `push`the well trodden fascist path.Remember `they` have been successful in closing down “Ahava” in the heart of our capital city.This is an inseparable and interchangeable code of Anti-Semitism/Anti Zionism.The tactics can be studied in the history books on the rise of Nazi Germany circa 1933.The chameleon adapts to suit our era.The message is clear ,we too must adapt and activism in all its forms is the immediate imperative.
Thanks Paul. Indeed, I was mentioning what Mr. Millet also mentioned: the incredible laxism of the police towards these racist demonstrators perturbating peaceful and very legal activities. Once they understand law does not apply to them, they will have to put it to the test event further. This was the Nazis technique, before 1933, when they were not even the government of Germany.
This must be stopped, just like the Nazi Iranian regime.
The sooner the better. And it is already late.
Hi Simon
Very pleased to hear you gave the bastards a taste of their own medicine .
Napier was the same in Edinburgh , squealing to the police that I was filming him and should be stopped , and all the while his thugs disrupting Batsheva and screaming obscenities at the audience as they entered .
I don’t agree with Jose s Kristallnacht comment earlier in the thread . As Silke correctly points out , there is a world of difference between State sponsored hate and that which pertains to organisations such as the PSC which remain a cult as Finklestein succinctly put it . One which has no critical mass and no political traction .
Nevertheless Jose is correct in drawing a comparison in the methods used by the PSC and that of the early days of Nazi Socialist Germany .
Standing outside Jewish owned shops in Brighton or Covent Garden handing out leaflets to passers by telling them not to shop only differs from in the eventual outcome – we hope .
PSC is a safe repository for antisemites to go about their filthy business under the cover of antizionism . I don’t need the likes of the Hardyments , Greens and Berlins to remind me of that . Just the fact that Greenstein has to hold an EGM to expel one such character and then with a 20% membership against his expulsion tells me all I need to know .
That is exactly what I meant: it’s a slippery slope. Don’t worry, Kristallnacht can happen again. It just requires that nobody acts soon and energically enough. Impunity while breaking the law is the only incentive these racists need. Then, comes breakdown of economy and a scapegoat that is readily available, the Jews.
I get the impression that you actually want to see another Kristallnacht, as not only a twisted vindication of your own paranoia, but also as a perpetuation of your sense of victimhood, without which you would cease to exist, and your identity would crumble. Why are you so afraid of freedom and truth?
It is clear that your insanity is greater than previously thought (and that was already a lot). Indeed, being a paranoid does not attract or prevent nasty events from happening. You would have said the same if anyone spoke about the killing Jewish children because they are Jews, before the Merah affair in France. You are totally insane denying facts even when they are under your nose.
well Jose as best I remember amongst those who were murdered for being Jews in the Chabad House in Mumbai very few years ago was a child or rather would have been, if there hadn’t been a courageous Nanny.
Now should we take a bet that dear James is going to argue that the killers of back then would have never killed the little boy? i.e. it was a case of pure luck that there were no children killed. And what about those who massacred the Fogel family? They killed them including the Baby for the sole reason that they are Jews.
As to James mental health:
As best I know sometimes even proper and carefully measured out medication can create hallucinations as a side effect. Maybe James should try to go off his for a while and after taking deep breaths of fresh air go for a good old fashioned session of binge drinking and after sleeping it off re-boot his mentals from scratch.
Yes Silke, you are right, but “Griffin”, the new avatar of our local troll, would have argued that this is India and Pakistan, hardly a ‘civilised’ area like UK and France. So I preferred to use the Merah example. It happened here, just on the continent that said “nevermore”.
And by the way, you still suppose very stupidly that I am Jewish (with your “Yusef” or your “identity” and “victimhood” speak) though I never pretended to be a Jew. Shows your fundamental antisemitism.
http://nickcohen.net/2009/02/12/jesus-im-turning-into-a-jew/
Jesus! I’m turning into a Jew!
bear with them Jose! – I have been told that the only reasonable explanation for that I think how I think is because my Zionist lover/husband/boy friend orders me to do so.
LOL! Yes, could be that Jewishness is a contagious form of ‘cancer’, just like Zionism, the liberation movement of the Jewish people.
In the American revolution times, they called that ‘cancer’ “freedom” and “independence”, though.
let me give you my answer:
could it be that you have forgotten how vast the areas are which have been rendered “judenrein” since the end of WW2?
If that isn’t ground for a continued feeling of belonging to a targeted group then I don’t know what it might be.
Dear James, let me offer a comparison of my own – you argue as if you’d live in a world were women are the ones who rape men.
you call yourself Yusef Kutner on Facebook and deny you’re a Jew there too.
No, I call myself “Jose” and that is all. I never asserted or denied I was a Jew or the reverse. What I deny is that you have any knowledge about it, since I never asserted or denied anything. Therefore your asserting that I am a jew is antisemitic.
Mr. Millet, this is enough proof “Griffin” is our old troll, coming here again to shift from subject to personal attacks.
”They killed them including the Baby for the sole reason that they are Jews.”. This is a stupid thing to say. The killers were driven to violence by the violence done to them since the occupation of their land began. Itamar is one of the most radical and violent of the settler communities in the territories. The people of Itamar have consistently terrorised the local indigeneous fellahin, destroying their olive trees, shooting at them when they try to harvest their olives, stealing the olives they do harvest, contaminating their fields and wells with rat poison, killing their animals. The aim is to make their lives so miserable that they will leave. It’s called ethnic cleansing. And this is all on the palestinian fellahin’s rightful land, which they have farmed for centuries. They were there long long before the Caucasian squatters from Brooklyn turned up to terrorise them, driven by a deranged and irrational belief that God gave them a land title deed 3000 years ago. Ignoring all this background is irresponsible and myopic.
James
the claimed destruction of olive trees has been debunked I don’t know how many times or don’t you know that it is regularly “proved” by publishing pictures of how a plantation looks after the trees just had their regular and necessary pruning.
But more to the point there is no, absolutely no, oppression that entitles somebody to cut a baby’s throat.
And that is all of an answer that exculpators of baby-killers are worth. You are delusional and a sadist to boot.
I see that Mr. Millet’s blog is being use by pure antisemites to express their support of the killing of babies, just because they are Jews.
And I had the illusion this was a pro-Israeli blog!
Why don’t you just ignore him?
You mean like they ignore you? Or me? Until they go to the school where your children go, like Merah did? Or until they create a Merah by incitement? Ignoring a threat doesn’t make it go away. And all threats are verbal until they transform into action.
So give me a good reason to ignore antisemites.
I’m not disagreeing but banning anti-Semites doesn’t help incitement go away either.
But it does! Incitement rely on media like yours to be spread. Otherwise, they would remain relatively harmless, limited to word of mouth.
And anyway, there is no reason why you should participate to that incitement-spreading, just because they won’t stop incitement elsewhere.
Jose
this very definitely and undoubtedly is a pro-Israel blog, but I guess I am not the only one who “enjoys” hearing the latest from the idiots – and given James’ latest – or last? – they are really out of ammunition … and to read that cheers me up. OK it’s a weird pleasure but I like to see my opponents flailing helplessly with no arrow left.
At least, we now have a clear picture of the antisemite “Griffin”.
wise intervention Richard. Jose needs to calm down and stop misconstruing my remarks. He comes across like a paranoid schizophrenic. I did not once support the killing of the Fogel family and the murder of babies. I just stated that they belonged to a community that has repeatedly terrorised and violated the local fellahin and their presence on land that they stole from the local inhabitants is hightly provocative and placed their family in great danger.
Liar!
Don’t get mad at him! 😉
He cannot even start to give a beginning of a hint of a proof to any of his statements. You’ve been living in fiction for too long, “Richard”!
Jose, I agree with you. This is what these people are like. People like Griffin have no proof AND accuse Jews of racism.
The paranoid schizophrenic sadistic idiots are those who support baby killings on SUSPICIONS that their parents (?), their relatives (?) their neighbours (?) did something wrong (?), while unable to state exactly what or who.
Visiting a shrink may help, but frankiy I doubt it.
Jose..listen carefully because this is a serious matter in which people’s lives are at stake. Stop pretending you care. The Fogels were partly responsible for the death of their children because they knowingly placed them in an extremely dangerous situation because of their crazed religious beliefs. To a sane human being, this is not difficult to understand, but to a fanatical ideologue like you and others on here blinded by denial and partisan thinking, it is beyond comprehension.
Why were Rabbi Holtzberg and his wife murdered at Chabad House in Mumbai in 2008 then?
Easy: the Chabad Jews were ethnically cleansing the Hindus.
It is believed that it will take some time.
“Griffin” aka whatever, I suggest your life of fiction is now getting to an end. You will go to see a shrink and get the medical attention you need. LOL!
”Why were Rabbi Holtzberg and his wife murdered at Chabad House in Mumbai in 2008 then?”
Because they were the targets of antisemitic Islamic jihadists. The Fogels were murdered for other reasons. It is disingenuous of you to compare the two events. The fact is that the Fogels were in the wrong place. One of the most dangerous places in the world. Just insane.They were in one of the most fanatical and violent settlements, a community that was hated by the Palestinians for its racism and religious supremacism. Putting your children on the front line like that is unforgiveable. I know you think that they were murdered just because they were Jews. You completely remove them from the equation.
The Holtzberg’s were murdered because they were Jews and I imagine because of the racist ideology they represented. I can understand that people who are referred to as satanic and sub-human by Rabbi Schneerson could get a bit miffed. As fars as Schneerson was concerned, I am also one of those satanic souls, but unlike the jihadists, I’m not a psychotic religious supremacist on a short fuse.
Wow! By your reasoning all Jews have a reason to be murdered. Now where have we heard that before, I wonder? All down the years certain thugs have found a reason to kill Jews. James, you’re that thug, just in a different era.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
Jose
of course are pogroms which don’t have government sponsorship and support deadly also but I believe that, cynical though that may sound, unorganised spontaneous mob actions offer more chances of survival and therefore should be kept separate.
I think by summarizing all massacres/killings/murders under one label one lets off today’s killers too easily. They are working on a brand/a method/ a scheme of their own, I think.
It is not the same as those guys back in 1938 who boarded their small truck intoxicated by the idea that their Führer would love them for their night’s dedicated “work”. Once those of today will have come up with their own to be adored one I’ll be more open to comparisons.
May that person never be born … (and yes I am perfectly aware that lots are out there trying to claim the heritage and yes I think the rabble is waiting for them) – but 1938 started at the latest in 1923 – it took a while to groom/anoint the monster. Therefore I am always on the look-out for somebody with charisma who appeals to groomers from the elite.
As I said before, it is a slippery slope. Allowing or showing negligence (as the French did) in front of the Israel-bashing and Jew-scapegoating is a path that was already travelled. It starts with individual actions, then organized racists join the bandwagon. Then impunity and neglect of the law embolden them into performing organised pogroms. Economic depression (remember we’ve got one?) and scapegoating of israel and Jews will bring those to a relative majority. They reach 15% in French elections already, the third party in France.
Jose
there were attempts at stopping the Nazis – repeatedly they were forbidden to hold rallies, they were forbidden to wear uniforms and badges in public
in the end the state and the states always failed when insisting on civilised behaviour.
Why don’t the organisers of these events for whose abilities to make a profit these idiots can’t be good, don’t manage to come up with an ingenious idea to stop those interrupters? How about everybody buying a ticket signing an agreement that if he/she interrupts the performance to the point that they have to be taken outside is owing an amount of money.
Disturbance will be hard to define though because I think one would not want to fine spontaneous applause and/or cries of Bravo and yes booing also. Thus they would have to agree with their signature to submit without question to the judgment of an arbiter. But then the poor guy/gal would probably need police protection for the rest of her life.
Asking for a money deposit before each performance. Those who disrupt it would not be refunded. LOL!
I’m afraid stopping hatred is not that easy. It requires zero-tolerance.
signature acknowledging the arbiter as competent accompanied by money deposit is an improvement
money at least when it really hurts is a kind of zero tolerance
since it seems the other traditionally zero tolerance weapon of shame seems to have lost its power.
I see the biggest problem in how to draw the line between events like this and harassment for political reasons i.e. that has nothing whatsoever to do with the event.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring#Premiere
I don’t believe in that kind of techniques because it takes too much time to perform, being applied to all preventively.
It is acceptable only when there is a lethal risk such as terrorism. Thus scanning everyone before entering Israel, or any mall in Israel. But not for stopping disruption of an artistic performance. This is unrealistic.
Fink disrupted the IPO concert and Mooney was outed as La Ritournelle,a vile commenter on Guardian CIF. They cannot complain when their concert is disrupted.
http://www.schott-music.co.uk/shopnav/events/Saturday November 17th 2012, 7.00pm
If on a Winter’s Night – Vocal Concert
Siobhan Mooney (mezzo-soprano), Deborah Fink (soprano) and Stephen Bowen (bass), accompanied on the piano by Dominic Saunders, perform an eclectic mix of classic opera, baroque works, standards and duets.
In fact it wasn’t Jose who brought up the Holocaust, but James Griffin who keeps bandying it about for his own agenda; not as a concerned well-wisher as he tries to make out, but as a holocaust-trivializer. He plays it down by bringing up examples of questionable victims.
Kristallnacht was in 1938 and the decision to implement the Final Solution took place at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942. Jose is rightly tying to draw attention to what intolerance and the rising threat of anti-Jewish hatred can ultimately lead to, even in this country where you would have least expected it. Much of it Islamic-driven, backed by the fa-left, academic circles and unions, disguised merely as anti-Zionism. (There is such a hearing taking place currently in London).
Primo Levy wrote, those who deny the Holocaust are capable of perpetrating the next one…!
True, Rubin. I remember German Jews saying that the country of Goethe and Beethoven couldn’t do something as inhuman as killing innocent Jews, just because they are Jews.
I knew that it was possible that someone killed Jewish children in France, with all the incitement going on in the media. It happened. The police didn’t do its work and let the future perpetrator prepare its massacre while they had enough data to act. Negligence because they lacked imagination or didn’t care what happens to French Jewish citizens.
Inaction is not acceptable at this point. The PSC and their racist likes must feel the heat! Laws exist, apply them.
In the US they have found a way to get at the producer of the latest Mohammed video – on the day I read something like that about a Jew-harasser I’ll rejoice – it seems that German media are the first to have this one
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/schmaehvideo-ein-jahr-haft-fuer-produzent-des-mohammed-films-a-865987.html
I guess that checking the IPC address of “Griffin” will show that the guy has used various pseudos on this blog.
Silke,
They got the Egyptian Copt on a breach of his parole for a previous embezzlement offence, and not for producing the Mohammed video. At first a rumour was circulating that it was an Israeli Jew who produced that video, financed by no less than one 100 rich American Jews! Which goes to prove that Jews always make a good scapegoat…!
yes Rubin I know but I just wonder whether they would have gone after him, become aware of him without that video – I admit being a confirmed skeptic when it comes to total free speech.
PS: … remember they got Al Capone for tax evasion …
By the way, Silke, ‘Palestinians’ and lefties have been caught on camera red-handed, cutting their olive trees. This is the new blood libel for incitement against Jews and justification for killing Jewish babies before they can kill ‘Palestinians’ wanting to blow themselves up in a coffee-shop full of Jewish civilians. A real shame!
Middle Ages people’s blood libels were more sophisticated: they used the death (real or not) of a Christian child to justify the assassination of Jews. Now, a mere tree is used.
Maybe they ran out of Christian children to kill by, driving them out of the future ‘Palestine’. What do you think?
Dr. Goebbels is still alive and well in the Arab world.
the most hilarious (if it weren’t so sad) fact about the olive trees is that wouldn’t they be pruned thoroughly there would be only a very meagre harvest. Thus oh so concerned on behalf of the “Palestinians” James is wishing hardship on them. Also nothing new – I wish I’d for once come across a James who cared for them.
As to Goebbels right now I have a weird experience. Thea von Harbou is the still celebrated author of the script for the most famous Fritz Lang movie Metropolis and for that she is still feted just like Leni Riefenstahl but maybe in a smaller circle.
In 1913 she published a book of short stories called Der Krieg und die Frauen = The war and the women – mind you in 1913!!! And to read her Mills&Boon-stuff without the sex is pure 3rd Reich Nazi-Germany-twisting-of-reality. It is eerie. It is so close I wonder whether Goebbels copied her, got his inspiration from her, whether the whole thing was pure evil concocted by Babelsberg or whatever German Hollywood was called at the time i.e. whether it were the creatives leading Goebbel by the nose rather than vice-versa or at least a lot more so than they ever cared to admit and got away with. Whether they were indulging in a catastrophe film in real life and realised too late that apocalypse made life difficult for them also.
http://german.about.com/library/blgzauberl.htm
The “Griffins” of this world do not care about Arabs or any other human being. The only thing they care about is how they will be able to blame the Jews. Therefore, no flotilla for Syria, although the civilian toll is now 100 times that of Cast Lead. ONE HUNDRED TIMES !!! But impossible to blame Jews for it: that would be too evident an antisemitism for Western audiences. Sorry, Syrians! Next time try to attack Israelis and the world will care for you!
Silke, this is not a matter of the effect that these human left-overs have upon you or me or Mr. Millet. I don’t care about their babble and neither do you. I care about people who are intellectually-challenged, in PC-language, and more likely to be influenced by their stupidities.
Israel has notoriously bad PR. But scaring away pro-Israel supporters by allowing these idiots to bully them on supposedly pro-Israel blogs is not the right way to enhance them.
Their goal is not to have a normal conversation but disrupt it. And Mr. Millet helps them, willingly or not.
Jose
I disagree, I think Richard does all in all a fine well-balanced job of providing very comprehensive information.
There is no ‘balance’ between antisemitism and absence of antisemitism. Eliminate the antisemitic comments and the personal attacks. Let the rest free.
Pro-Palestinian activists are cowards and nothing more, thankfully, actions like this show the public what these anti-Semitic Fascists are really like.
I agree that this is most definitely a pro-Israel blog and, like Silke, I quite enjoy reading the James Griffiths of this world. I have been a life-long Jew and Zionist, but I cannot deny that there have been moments when I’ve had my share of doubts too. Nothing reinforces my sense of being one of the “good guys” more than hearing a good old bit of Jew hatred.
If I need any further proof that the James Griffiths are living on another planet to mine it’s on hearing of wicked settlers poisoning non-Jews wells once more. Back in the middle ages those were poisoning those wells to cause the Black Plague and we’re still at it today.
In the real world, here are Palestinians from Azaria shopping in my local supermarket.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10552885/When%20we%27re%20not%20poisoning%20wells.ppsx
And here is a class I taught last week. As you see nobody is poisoned.
Daniel
let me try a James-think:
it is obvious from the photo that you poisoned their minds – I detect a clear incident of brain-washing.
😉
I remember that, like you Daniel, the Israelis disregarded the Al Dura affair, a modern blood-libel on video that made prime-time new on the France 2 TV channel (kind of French BBC).
Because of that disregard, terrorist justified the beheading of Daniel Pearl to the Muslim masses. Of course, we know they would have found another reason but we are not supposed to help them find one, are we? Because of that disregard, Merah killed two Jewish children in Toulouse, France. Because of that disregard, three children and their parents were assassinated in Itamar. Aren’t you tired to help this propaganda to spread?
Of course, it does not bother you and me because we know the truth and we can separate it from this sadistic hatemongering fiction. But this is not the case for all. This, in return, vindicates the idiotic “tag mehir” actions, because extremists love when governments don’t react to violations of the law.
Again, that is a problem of zero tolerance to antisemitism, not a problem of free speech.
Daniel disregarded the Al Dura affair – were blogs already in existence at the time that came up?
The disregard of the Al Dura affair is a general Israeli problem. You could probably ask anyone in the street, there, and no one would even remember it by name. Probably, if you insist and describe it with lots of details, they will vaguely remember it. Then, they will say something “What the hell? Children get killed every day and that is unfortunate but such is war.” In Israel, the problem of antisemitism is mostly viewed as an external threat, and they deal with it. Not so in Europe.
I guess that’s why the antisemitic europeans enrage when Israel uses its right to self-defence. They take for granted that they should behave like the Jews in Europe: appeasement, turning their head and pretend they don’t see. Sorry, folks: it does not work and will make the problem worse next time.
I agree – Israelis really don’t know what they are doing – they are in dire need of our advice
sarc off
Silke, I’m happy that you have such a high opinion of Israel’s PR sarc off.
It just happens that the rest of the world, including the Israelis, disagree with you.
I didn’t say or at least I didn’t intend to say that I had any opinion whatsoever, not about PR not about anything.
I said that I feel it is none of my business – my business is to make it clear, that there are also people who have for a huge number of reasons friendly feelings towards their state.
Once in a while I notice that Israelis seem to be way too self-critical compared to what I consider to be wise – but then it is their right to not comply with my ideas, given that Germans and French and Brits and New-Zealanders all probably have lots and lots of habits that they’d find, would they notice them, equally amazing.
And if you want my idea on how to do good PR, then here it is, make yourself attractive in a romantic way (yes that has lots of pitfalls too) but at least it doesn’t keep the opponents accusations top news all the time.
The wisdom behind that is “try to NOT think of a lemon”.
You underestimate the forces against which Israel is fighting. First, Israel is still very young. Second, it will always be a very thin country, even if the ‘Palestinians’ go to their country, Jordan, where they belong.
That makes it quite difficult to defend even if Israeli Defense Forces keep their technological and motivational advantage over the terrorists.
Weakening, or letting the motivational advantage to weaken is VERY unreasonable. It embolden the terrorists and leads to war. That is what antisemitism in the area leads to. In Europe, it leads to Jew-killing, despite the peace.
If that is not enough for you to worry, please stay put! Don’t do anything. Maybe, if your lucky, you’ll be the last one in the list. Best: you can even feed the crocodile, joining their bandwagon, and get an even better chance to be the last one it eats.
I chose to fight on their soil and criticise those who let them fight on our soil. Mr. Millet, that’s you!
Jose
so by your account saying that Israel is capable of deciding by herself what’s best for herself translates for you into my underestimating them?
I consider the country to be a country perfectly capable of taking care of herself, shaping her alliances where she thinks best, handling her PR the way she considers best, negotiating, appeasing or striking whomever she considers best.
In other words I respect her as I respect any other country while “suffering” in her case from a bias that is the consequence from having been subjected to PR-campaigns from them repeatedly, the first one at an early age. The effects of that early one reinforced by later ones now round about 60 years later shows no signs of lessening whatsoever.
I have not the slightest doubt that those PR-campaigns had the opposite effect on the James-s of this world, but then not everybody can be as smart as I am. 😉
Silke, Israel does a very bad job at PR. So, I’m just telling how to do a better job. More of the same, as you suggest, won’t help.
Daniel…I’m worried about you. Be reasonable. be honest. Those students of yours are not farmers with animals,fields and wells they depend on. Not all Palestinians are experiencing the same conditions. Just because your students are arriving at school unpoisoned, does not mean it isn’t happening in the territories. You like to put yourself across as a nice, friendly settler….although you can be a decent person but an active, and perhaps unwitting, participant in a foul and corrupt system, and I think, sadly, this is the case with many Israelis………….but many settlers are not, and they are committing violent crimes against the Palestinians with the intention of driving off their own land for purposes of ethnic cleansing. You know this but you play innocent. This is unacceptable. You know very well that there are Jews who constantly complain about so-called antisemitism but who are themselves virulent racists. This is the problem.
“Griffin” aka whatever, you are the virulent racist here, remember? You are the one justifying killing baby Jews because their neigbours MIGHT have done whoever knows what (but not you, for sure).
The ethnic cleansing of the Jews by Jordan in this area in 1948 was a very real thing. But you don’t care. The Jewish settlers don’t expel any ‘Palestinian’ by settling there but they are in some mysterious way “ethnically cleansing” them? Can’t you be serious, for a change?
I’m inclined to agree with Jose on this; Richard ought to draw the line somewhere. Free speech is all very well, but what we have here at times is a free-for-all. It’s Richard’s prerogative of course, but personal insults, anti-Semitism and Holocaust trivialization/denial ought not to be tolerated; it’s very insulting to some. In a recent post, Griffin referred to Daniel and me as “bare-faced liars”. Some people are more sensitive than others; Daniel, for instance, seems to thrive on it, but I don’t, and unless the Griffin learns to curb his tongue a little, I shall have to think of withdrawing again. I don’t want to sound like a prima donna but I can do without the aggro. Debating should be an enjoyable and stimulating pastime.
This is precisely what I said: because of the antisemitic “Griffin” (whom we know under many other pseudos), people who speak reasonably on a pro-Israel blog feel that they have to withdraw. It happens here as well as on the JC blogs, where the antisemites now rule.
In my opinion, if someone has to withdraw, it is the antisemite, the one who insults others, goes off-subject and makes personal attacks, those who disrupt Israeli dance shows, Jew-owned businesses, etc.
Rubin
On the one hand I agree with you – on the other hand I find the trolls who show up here occasionally provide me with a better insight into where they stand as if I were going to visit them in their dirty lairs i.e. I get all the necessary info as to whether they have concocted something new while I am spared wading through the sewers.
Here we go again, with the same troll. Can’t you check the IP addresses, Mr. Millet?
“Griffin” aka whatever, you are the pathological liar here. The Fogel were innocents and you accuse them of nothing, nor did they bring any law. You justify their killing and their babies’ just because you are a hatemongering sicko. Now, you know perfectly well what your antisemitic incitement leads to and you continue. You are just a left-over of humanity, with absolutely no sense of care to anyone, but you care even less for Jews.
Please seek a shrink’s attention.