“Naqba Day” extremists spew hate outside Israeli Embassy.

Hezbollah flag, with gun, on streets of London.

Hezbollah flag, with gun, on streets of London.

It is testament to the power of propaganda that the Palestinians and their “supporters” still react with incredible rage to an event that never concerned them and that happened 63 years ago.

1948 was the Jewish Spring, when the Jewish people decided that no more would they subject themselves to the whims of societies that were less than welcoming to them.

Pogroms in Russia, the Holocaust and being treated as dhimmi by Arab countries had taken their toll and by 1948 they had fought off British colonial rule in their ancient homeland and through the United Nations re-created a Jewish state in British Mandate Palestine that has been thriving ever since.

63 years later we finally have the Arab Spring, although it is turning into an Arab Slaughter with Christians now being attacked in Egypt and Libya and Syria massacreing their own people, the latter probably with the help of Iran.

But in 1948 the Arabs thought they would massacre not their own people, but the Jews. But it didn’t happen. The Jews won. It was the ultimate insult for these Arab countries that had treated their own Jews as inferior subjects for so long.

In response many Arab countries forcibly ejected their own Jewish populations. Around 900,000 Jews from Arab countries, who were indigenous, lost everything. Racist laws forced them to leave the Arab countries with nothing.

Out of a Jewish population in Arab countries of about 1,000,000 pre-1948 only 5,000 remain now. It was an ethnic cleansing of the highest order.

Yet, 63 years later instead of creating something positive the Palestinian national identity is marked by hatred and disaster. Their self-identity is based on little that is positive, but on what they claim has happened to them. It is a victim mentality of the highest order. “Naqba Day” is a symbol of their victimhood.

And so to London today where about 200 of their most extreme supporters called for Palestinians to get even more violent. They screamed “Victory for the Intifada” and waved the Hezbollah flag with its AK47 gun on it.

They called for jihad against Israel, called Israel a “terrorist state” and called for Israel’s destruction. Goodness knows what they were saying in Arabic. Please let me know if you can translate the clips below.

The Naturei Karta turned up about two and a half hours late to a heroes welcome. Children sat atop the shoulders of the extremist anti-Israel protesters; another generation about to grow up fed with lies and hate.

Meanwhile, the pro-Israel protesters sang “The People of Israel live”, which was slightly more positive than the hate-filled anti-Israel protesters. You will sense the hatred from the following clips:

The photos.:

Israeli Embassy

Israeli Embassy

Naturei Karta

Naturei Karta

View from Wagamama's

View from Wagamama's

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335 responses to ““Naqba Day” extremists spew hate outside Israeli Embassy.

  1. I’ve been waiting to see if any demonstrations would take place over Syria’s murder of 1,000 protesters, but alas no. The mob only comes out when Israel is involved.

  2. Richard
    you are indispensable

  3. After being exposed to those troglodytes and their poison, a trip to London Zoo would be required to enjoy the grace, dignity and absence of hate in our four legged and winged friends as an antidote.

  4. Jonathan Hoffman

    well done to all the pro–Israel demonstraters

  5. Richard…great coverage of the London Demonstration.
    Like you, I have been reporting these events…the 63rd anniversary of Nakbar may go down in history as the day Israel had to begin a desperate public relations battle for public sentiment, not to mention fighting a potential 3rd Intifada. (Link: “Nakbar Demonstrations A Fight for Public Sentiment) http://beforeitsnews.com/story/636835)

    Americans and Jews around the world have to be wondering how the Obama Administration will deal with the message that is coming from Hamas’ Prime Minister, Ismail Haniyeh, who told 10,000 worshipers in the Gaza City Mosque on Sunday that Palestinians have a “right to resist Israeli occupation,” and he reiterates that the Islamic movement “will not recognize Israel.”

    Obama better get it right this time…so much is at stake.

  6. thanks for the pics and videos, pity the support for Israel was so small… not one of these hypocritical fucknuts would ever protest for the Syrians or Egyptians that were murdered….

  7. How many of these reprobates are asylum seekers , how many illegals . How many ‘ students on non existent language courses
    How many are members of hizb – tahir
    How many were admirers of bin laden/ al Qaeda
    Jihad 9/11
    How many are vicious anti-Semites
    How many are contemptuous of Britain and have no concept of British history ,culture,
    democracy
    But the biggest question is why did the previous government allow this scum in in the first place

    • Brilliant, couldn’t have said it better myself.
      Idea for poster:
      Bin Laden is Dead
      – We are NOT Sorry For Your Loss

    • Because they were scum themselves, gangsters far more interested in votes and their fraudulent expense claims than the good of the country.

  8. Great post, thanks as always for documenting this.

    (On a sidenote, I still act with rage at a different event that took place more than 60 or more years ago, and that didn’t concern me directly.)

    • richardmillett

      But you don’t call for the destruction of someone or something, do you, and wave a picture of a gun around?

  9. This is worth remembering. Pro-Israel demonstrators singing the British national anthem. Can you imagine this coming from the Muslim pro-fakestinian supporters?

  10. Sharon Klaff

    Hey Richard – great piece! Nice to see the view fromWagamamas as it is evident that the suport was miniscule!! Bravo to the youngsters who came out for Israel – no violence on their tongues and no hatred in their eyes; and thanks to the EDL who supported us from across the road, resepecting the fact that many amongst the Jewish community did not want them to mingle with us, unlike the hate filled mob sporting Hizbollah flags emblazoned with a rifle, supported by those frock-coated filthy bearded Yiddish speakers. They will one day have to account to God for their sins!

    • FREE PALESTINE

      so now you agree with edl. hahaha. FREE PALESTINE! when you see a ISRAELI BULLDOZER CRUSHING A WOMAN AND HER CHILDREN WHO WERE STOOD OUTSIDE THEIR HOME you know what SCUM you people are

      • richardmillett

        “Free Palestine”, you have never seen that. You are just fed on lies and propaganda and you, being ever so full of hate towards a Jewish state, believe it all and question nothing.

      • Free Palestine

        as you seem to be so knowledgeable on bulldozers, I’d very much appreciate it, if you reminded us all about the two incidents of bulldozers driving Amok through Jerusalem and then I am sure you can tell us this story in much more detail. Thank you!
        Gaza man … near the Rafah tunnels was killed accidentally when he was run over by a bulldozer.

        http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/05/gaza-man-run-over-by-bulldozer.html

      • Message to ” FREE PALESTINE ” –

        The mainstream Jewish Community do not ” agree with edl ” .

        Jewish Groups from The Board Of Deputies Of British Jews to The Zionist Federation , & Jews Against The EDL , have all condemned the EDL’s links with the Far-Right & violent Football gangs – the EDL is completely unwelcome at any Jewish Demonstration & activities .

      • Sharon Klaff

        Ian – why on earth are you apologising to Free Palestine – whoever this annonymous entity is?!! Where do you suppose those views about Israel come from – of course the very media you accept when they write about the EDL as far right etc. Do some research – they are not BNP or far right wing – they are simply Englishmen who are demonised in the same way Jews are by bigots like this entity who calls itself Free Palestine. They are simply English Nationalsits and for me there is something refreshng about people who stand up for who they are rather than embracing soemone elses ideology under sufference. So please don’t apologise for anyone having views that are not dictated by what you call the mainstream Jewish groups.

      • Dear Sharon ,
        It wasn’t an apology it was a political statement .
        All the Jewish Community Groups are opposed to the EDL ( including The CST Who collect Intelligence on Far Right Groups which endanger the safety of The Jewish Community ) – I think that You should ask Yourself why the whole Jewish Community Framework condemns the EDL – it is it because We have good reasons to mistrust the aims & methods of the EDL !

      • Ian

        since that “Framework” seems to be good at record keeping – are their findings as to Unions online somewhere?

        Unions being dear to my heart I’d sure appreciate a comprehensive look at their record.

        Thanks!

      • I believe you can get free psychiatric help on the NHS. Yes, even for illegal, benefit scrounging, fake asylum seekers like you. Get some.

      • “the EDL is completely unwelcome at any Jewish Demonstration & activities ”

        Ian, you do not speak for all Jews. Certainly not for me. I admire the EDL.

    • Sharon, are you aware how deeply anti-semetic the phrase “frock-coated filthy bearded Yiddish speaker” is, you should be ashamed of yourself, you arn’t fit to advocate for Israel, we don’t need people like you

  11. Hey great stuff dude. Just caught this via FB, was at the rally myself. Good to see so many people cheering and chanting on our side. The peaceful side.

    You didn’t happen to catch anything of the guy getting dragged away midway through the rally?

    • richardmillett

      Yes, someone has a photo of it on facebook. I will try to put it up.

      • I didn’t see him trying to climb over our fence, but I saw him being carried away, someone said he got tazered?!

    • richardmillett

      I have just added a photo of a protester being dragged away by the police.

  12. Well done to Richard and all those that attended especially since this event coincided with the We Believe in Israel conference. You all proved that action is far more important than words.

  13. elaine racussen

    once again the lesson for us to REMEMBER, only we care about Israel and thank g-d we will never have to rely on any other nations to defend Israel.Ami Yisrael Chai

  14. elaine racussen

    the lesson is well learnt after 63 years, thank g-d Israel does not have to depend on anyone else to protect the land of Israel………….educate and educate and educate the younger generation over and over again so that they know the truth.
    am yisrael chai

  15. Thanks for your account, Richard ! You are so right that the Palestinian identity is based on hatred and disaster. Did you hear the protesters chanting in Arabic ‘Khaybar, Khaybar !’ – a reference to Mohammed’s massacre of Jewish tribes in Arabia? Let there be no doubt in anyone’s minds – these people are interested in genocide, not peace.

  16. Thanks for this Richard, from where we were positioned we couldn’t see them properly – or hear exactly what they were saying – as they were round the corner from us.
    I went to the conference as well, but left in the middle to go to the rally and went back later. Both were amazing and everyone who went to either should be very proud.

  17. Hi Richard
    Keep up the good work-it is a breath of fresh air and so were Israeli supporters-I went there but didnt see those Israel supporters so left early-but then I was confronted by two old arab women who told me they were proud of suicide bombers/shaheeds-one of them said she had a British passport-my question is why has Britain allowed Islamist Terror to flourish in our great liberal Democracy? It is a Pandoras box of hate-
    Sadly the best days of SOAS are long gone-it is now a hot bed of anti-semitism and extremism-well keep us posted and keep reporting.

  18. Small beautiful demonstration by the pro-Israel. A group that could have been much bigger by including the supporters EDL.

    • Daniel Marks

      Bigger, but not so beautiful, they’re an ugly lot, they are.

      However, I agree with Vivian throughly and say, “Bring in the EDL!” They’re far more likely to scare the radical Islamists than nice Jewish boys and girls are.

      I also get a strange unexplainable joy as my eyes feast on the leather jacketed skin-heads and their intricately tattooed, mini-skirt clad, Guinessr swigging lady friends waving Israeli flags. Surely I am not alone in so feeling!?

      • the other dayI heard an in interview with Vidal Sassoon who told that he roamed the streets of London post-WW2 wearing heavy boots and putting them to good use …

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00brt2w

        The man is dear to me because when he came up with that fabulous haircut “wash, shake and go” way way back then he freed me from an incredibly heavy obligation of how to spend my time.

        I never knew he had such terrible terrible early years (after all Sassoon is a famous name and all Jews are rich ;-((( ) and he would have wanted to become an architect and since he couldn’t he devoted himself to highlight bone structures and thereby made me a huge gift to women all around the world.

      • Sharon Klaff

        No Daniel, you are not alone. It never struck anybody amongst the Jewish community in teh UK that just as we the Jews and Israel are subject to adverse propaganda so are the EDL demonised. I have met some of them and spoken with them and they are salt of the earth people fighting for a democratically free England and Englishmen based in Christianity and the morals and ethics of the Old Testament, just as we are fighting for Israel and Jews based in the same ethics and values of the Old Testament. Just as we have little in common with Islam and the liberal secular “elitists” who desire that Jews, Israel and the EDL would simply pass on by, so does the EDL. As I said many times before, Jabotinsky taught us that in times of strife we must fight the greater enemy together with those whose greater enemy we share. We all share the greater enemy that is Islam and all it represents in its efforts to destroy the Judeo-Christian ethic that is our Western Civilisation and we must hang together in peace for the sake of peace.

      • Dear daniel & Sharon ,

        Sorry to have to point this out to You but the EDL is a Far-Right group that has crossover links with the BNP & other Racist & Fascist individuals , it has extensive contacts with violent Football Hooligan gangs .

        http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/edl/

        The presense of the EDL on Jewish Community demonstrations is deeply embarrasing to The Jewish Community & provides ammunition that Anti-Zionists use as propaganda against Israel – the EDL is completely unwelcome on any activity that We organise & no Jews should touch them with a Bargepole !!!

      • Ian

        in 30s Germany Socialists and Communists and all kinds of other left groups wouldn’t touch eachother with a barge pole which greatly increased the ability of the Nazis to win the street fights.

        I don’t know anybody from the EDL – one would have to see them up close. And from a European view point Jews can be as lily-white and angelic as they want, “we”‘ll still find fault.

        Vidal Sassoon the famous hair dresser told in a recent interview I heard that he roamed the streets of London post WW2 in heavy boots and used them on those who even then wanted to go after Jews.

        In European parliaments below state level all kinds of unsavoury coalitions and cooperations take place. They get started, they get dissolved and in the meantime they serve their purpose.

      • Dear Silke ,

        The reason for the lack of Unity between the SPD ‘s Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold and the KPD ‘s Rotfrontkampferbund Fighting Groups was that Stalin forced the Communist Party to adopt the ” Third Period ” ideology that ludicrously claimed that the Socialists were ” Social Fascists ” and were the main enemy not the Nazis .

        Israel & the Jewish Community do not need or want to build any alliances ( temporary or otherwise ) with Right-Wing Reactionaries like the EDL – We need to build alliances with Progressive Groups in Civil Society ( Trade Unions , Political Parties , The LGBT Community , Women’s Organisations , other Ethnic Minority Communities etc ) .

        Zionism needs to create a long-term , cohesive & responsible consensus in British Society – there is no short & easy way to achieve this but surely the EDL has no part to play in the Constructive Engagement that We need to undertake !

      • Ian

        you oversimplify the disunity at the left more than a bit especially when you claim it was all Stalin’s fault and they couldn’t help themselves. I know that is mainstream historian view but as I explained with the example of Roumania mainstream historian narrative tends to streamline things a bit, much easier to remember that way.

        All those nice lovable groups you list, how long have Jews been trying to woe them? As best I know in Germany for quite a bit more than some decades. How reliable proved they to be as partners? I honestly don’t know but as protectors they sure weren’t worth that much. You might as well advocate for Jews to befriend prostitutes. Some of them have been found to have saved Jews in Berlin when we were so eager for slaughter.

        Aren’t the groups you mention those who like the Guardian? I know some of the German newspapers ours prefer. Woeing them is as promising as the attempt to spin straw into gold.

        I just read that Scottish Unions or one Scottish Union is rooting for Anti-Zionism. Or maybe it’s just Glasgow Unions.

        All in all I think Jews aren’t obliged to teach all kinds of peoples manners. They have an inalienable right to be treated with the same decency and fairness as all of us expect to be treated. Instead they are always expected to walk the extra mile. Why?

        They should work at their Nobel prizes, that’s what they are insurpassable at and it is good for all of us if they keep getting them. ;-)

        And they should not have to worry about turning all kinds of groups who are too dumb, too ignorant, to conceited to see the light by themselves into Zionist friendly whatevers.

      • Sharon Klaff

        Ian – no it is not embarrassing to have people support us – it is very brave of them to do so given the weight of anti-Israel sentiment propogated by the mainstream media too lazy to do some research before they report propaganda as fact.

      • Sharon Klaff

        Ian – what is the authority of this hope not hate blog you sent the link to. What is its authority? Who is behind it? Can you send me details so I can do my own research please?

      • Dear Sharon ,

        I beg to differ – it is deeply embarrasing when Anti-Zionists like the AHAVA Boycotters & Tony Greenstein & others hostile to Israel tell lies on their websites & papers about so-called Zionist co-links with the EDL .

        My information about the EDL doesn’t come from the mainstream media it comes from detailed Intelligence gathering work ( often collected from deeply Brave undercover agents from Searchlight who have infiltrated the EDL & BNP ) from Searchlight Magazine .

        The Israel Haters desperately want to link Zionism with the Far Right because they realise that this would sabotage Jewish Community engagement with Civil Society – We must do everything We can to repudiate the EDL .

      • Dear Sharon ,

        The Board Of Deputies & The CST would provide You information about the EDL & why the Jewish Community should have nothing to do with them .

        Hope Not Hate is the educational arm of Searchlight Magazine . Searchlight was set up by Anti-Fascist Activists during the 1960’s & 1970’s & originated from people who had come from organisations like The 43 Group ( Jewish Ex-Servicemen Who fought Oswald Mosely’s Fascist organisation after the 2nd world war ) & the 62 Group which followed on on the 60’s – Many of these Activists were Jewish .

        I believe that Martin Sugarman from Our AHAVA demonstrations has been involved in Anti-Fascist campaigning so You can ask Him about these issues .

        Politically – many Searchlight members were involved with the Communist Party but Searchlight always had a policy of complete Political independence from other Groups – many Searchlight Activists are Jewish & Searchlight has always had close links with The Jewish Community ( The Union Of Jewish Students has worked with Searchlight for many years holding joint events – that s how I first heard of Searchlight ) . In terms of Israel Searchlight realises that Israel is central to Jewish Identity & also that the Far Right have historicaly used Anti-Zionism as a way of being Anti-Semitic . Searchlight distanced Themselves from Unite Against Fascism ( the Anti-Fascist Front Group for the Socialist Workers Party ) when UAF started to run a Whispering Campaign that Searchlight were ” Zionists ” .

        Searchlight is a Progressive Organisation , active for decades , which has excellent relations with The Jewish Community .

        http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/

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  20. Having been at the demo I have posted some more pictures and comments here:

    http://edgar1981.blogspot.com/2011/05/pro-and-anti-israel-demonstrations.html

  21. I was torn between staying at the conference or confronting the jihadis
    Chose to stay as I believe it will do more good in the long term to learn and acquire the extra tools needed to better represent and argue the case for israel
    Having the opportunity to listen to the powerful message from colonel Richard kemp was worth it alone
    I also didn’t need to take an immediate shower from being up close to the extremists

  22. The evil and deranged Lamis Deek incites hatred and genocide at the Nakba protest in New York. Notice the Neturai Karta supporting these Jew haters. Welcome to the theatre of the absurd.

  23. Daniel Marks

    Sharon raises an interesting point. Today there are two non-Jewish groups, both extremely pro-Israel and both rising in power and influence. I am, of course, referring to the European Right and the US Evangelist Church.

    It may be because they often seem more Zionist than the Jewish communities of their respective countries or it may just be that they’re not the type of goy that we want to invite to our daughter’s wedding, but we have failed to truly embrace either group or to show any appreciation for their support. Instead we’ve allowed ourselves to be brainwashed into believing that the former are all Nazis, and the latter just barmy. We prefer to waste valuable time and resources forever trying to persuade the European Socialists and the US liberals that we really aren’t as bad as they think.

    I once heard a wise man explaining that after the Jew lived 2,000 years among those who despised him, he came to the conclusion that they couldn’t all be wrong, so he began to hate himself too. Therefore, if an Arab wants to kill us we see him as being authentic and worthy of our respect, if he wants to live with us in peace he must be a Quisling who represents nobody but himself.

    Likewise, we are inherently suspicious of any gentile who supports Israel or the Jewish people. Maybe he’s a missionary, maybe he’s just mad. Nobody could actually like us for what we are, could they?

    Maybe it’s time to reread the old dusty book, untouched by some for so many years:

    “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

    • Daniel

      I certainly genuinely and truly like you from what I see from you around here, and I have liked a lot of those Jews I got to know over the decades.
      But do I like all Jews – I guess not (I heard Mondoweiss’ Weiss in an interview and find him highly unlikeable)
      do I like Israel – no idea – probably yes – provided you talk with your hands like a proper mediterranean should ;-)

      So why do I try my very best? It is simple: I hate slander and love fairness and Israel is treated in a way that I find outrageous and which gets me in a state whenever I read something new. Also I am highly egotistical and not a bit ashamed of it. I am convinced that with should Israel ever be in trouble (heaven forbid) my life is going to change for the worse. So even if I were infected by the anti-semitism-virus which in all likelihood I am not I’d still root for Israel because it is in my very own interest that you fare well and that those Scharia-besotten nutters don’t get at you.

      In short though I can’t be sure I like y’all I still deeply care for your well-being.

      • Daniel Marks

        I promise you Silke that as I typed, “I will bless those who bless you”, I thought of you.

        May G-d bless you. I know he has blessed me to have a friend like you.

      • Daniel

        lets then hope that your blessing me will result in my becoming many many many a majority

  24. Sharon Klaff

    Daniel you are so right. Its time we extended a hand of appreciation to those who support us as it is they who see the Light. The lefties and liberals and so called high and mighty are simply deluded in their belief that the buck stops with them and they are the first to be duped by propaganda. Witness their support for the Russian Revolution, Cuba, Vietcong and so on – anything that has an ism but no Light.

  25. JanSuzanne Krasner

    Sharon and David…An interesting conversation about recognizing the need to unify groups of people who may have different reasons, but still one goal: The very survival of the State of Israel. The various political and religious groups of Arabs, no matter what their country of origin or where they live, their religious sect, or political leanings, are uniting under the commitment to end Israel’s existence and replace it with a ‘Palestine’ created from the ‘Right of Return’. It wouldn’t be so bad if the Jews that decided to stay in the midst of the return, would not fear for their lives. Arabs are the true believers in Apartheid and have full justification for killing in passages of the Qu’ran. I want to know what will it take for Non-Muslims to get this…not to mention these ‘foolish’ liberal self-hating, dhimmhi Jews?

    • Daniel Marks

      Hi JanSuzanne,

      It’s strange how many people call me David. It was my father’s father’s name and two of his great-grandchildren were named after him. For some reason when I joined the IDF they also thought that David was my name for about a week.

      Though descended of a Moabite woman David the son of Jesse became the greatest of all our kings. We still sing “David, king of Israel, lives and exists!”

      However, my name is Daniel….Daniel Marks and I’m pleased to make your acquaintance.

  26. Daniel

    but please keep in mind that alliances need not be for eternity, they can be temporarily and must be earned by each partner over and over again.

    When I got my hands on Churchill’s WW1 long version I learned much to my amazement that Roumania switched sides, dithered, promised here and there and everywhere while the one volume histories tell us always a rather straight story about Roumania. Now not even 5 volumes can tell all the ups and downs in a relationship over more than 4 years.

  27. JanSuzanne Krasner

    Yes. History has shown how alliances are made, broken, and remade…they are always for common goals. Once attained, the other issues surface and friction develops.

  28. Well done to Everybody Who demonstrated in Support of Israel – I’m sure that We would have had even more people if the demonstration had not clashed with the ” We Believe In Israel ” Conference .

  29. JanSuzanne Krasner

    Daniel…I do apologize. David happens to be my favorite male name, but Daniel is quite fine, too. Nice to meet you, as well. This has been a good dialogue.

  30. Daniel
    at Elder of Ziyon I currently always see an ad by Finnair including this picture which reminds me that I should really read the story about Daniel in the lions’ den for once for myself – It is used quite proverbially in German and therefore it would be more than appropriate if I finally got around to reading the tale myself.

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  32. Jonathan Hoffman

    http://thejc.com/news/uk-news/49007/arrest-during-israeli-embassy-nakba-day-protest

    The guy arrested was Barney Laurence. Not a name I know – I don’t think he comes to the Ahava picket for example.

    Meanwhile the faux ingenue Jody McIntyre – the man who uses his wheelchair as an offensive weapon – has a venomous little piece in today’s Indy:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/05/16/a-right-to-return/

    • richardmillett

      I added a photo of someone being carried away by police on my blog. If it’s him in the JC article then he is always at ahava.

  33. James Lovelace

    According to the police’s National Domestic Extremism Unit (following a year-long investigation throughout 2010): “EDL are not far-right extremists”. http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/98004 Of course, it pains communists like The Morning Star to admit that. And the communists who run the UAF also won’t admit it – tearing up photos at the UAF conference that showed the black, asian and jewish people at EDL demos and meetings.

    Neither will the communists who run Searchlight face the truth. Would you care to show me one piece of evidence that demonstrates that any of these self-styled “anti-fascist” organisations run by communists has ever carried out a demonstration against Hizb ut Tahrir? For those of you who don’t know, Hizb ut Tahrir is the most fascist party to appear in Europe since WW2 — they wish to abolish democracy, have a pan-national state (Caliphate) run under islamic law, with non-muslims as 2nd class citizens, and with the execution of homosexuals, and the entire pan-national states efforts geared to the destruction of Israel. In Germany HuT is banned for their anti-semitic hatred. Both Tony Blair and David Cameron have promised to ban HuT. Yet HuT still has conferences (like the one in March 2011) attended by over 1000 islamo-fascists. NEVER has HNH protested against this organisation of hate; NEVER has UAF protested against these fascists.

    After 25 years the supremacist views of organisations like HuT have filtered throughout the muslim communities of Britain – such that the pro-terrorist, murderous Zakir Naik was invited to address 3 football stadiums of muslims around the country. And even the gay muslim group IMAAN says “we would welcome the caliphate”. Statistics have shown year after year that anti-semitic attacks in Britain are rising, and moreover that muslims/arabs are massively over-represented in these attacks. Yet still organisations like HNH insist that EDL is “far-right” and “anti-semitic”, when the police experts have contradicted this, and when EDL has a jewish division and welcomes jews to go to meetings or demonstrations and observe for themselves.

    HNH had their wake up call on Remembrance Day 2010, when their reporter heard British-born muslim fanatics deny the Holocaust happened, and heard British muslims glorify Hitler and the Waffen SS: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1018/a-plague-on-both-their-houses . One has to ask: “why did the HNH reporter have to hear that for himself, when the slightest investigation would reveal the historic support of muslims for the Nazis”? After HNH discovers that such disgusting islamic nazism exists, they say they will target it in future. Well, guess what. 6 months later, and they’ve done nothing about it. Nothing about “Gay Free Zone” posters being plastered across London. Nothing about the “pro palestinians” last sunday calling for the extermination of the jews. HNH have proven they are the enemy of the EDL. But they have not demonstrated they are the friend of jews. They have proven they will do anything they can to protect islam from criticism.

    • Dear James ,

      Sorry all Your piece about the senior Police Officer’s statements proves is the rather inadequate nature of His analysis of the EDL – of course a Police Officer Who may well be very politically prejudiced against the Left ( as the Morning Star article said the Police spend much of Their time spying on Trade Unions & Left Groups ) & may have a complete lack of understanding of the danger of the EDL to Democratic Society . Let us remember that individuals linked to the Far Right ( like the Soho pub bomber David Copeland Who was linked to the BNP ) have been arrested recently planning terrorist attacks & bombings – not to mention the constant Racist violence that Racists & Fascists carry out . Other Police Forces have taken a different & more far sighted approach to combatting the EDL – seeing the threat that the EDL pose to peaceful relations in Society & liasing with Groups campaigning against it – Searchlight regularly gives Intelligence to The Police & Security Agencies . The Morning Star article finishes with a quote about the Police Officer : ” If He does not know the Fascist affiliations of leading and founding members of the English Defence League then We should club together and buy Him a subscription to Searchlight Magazine , where He would find these links set out in fine detail . ” – with all due respect I wish that some of the people posting uncritical comments about the EDL would do likewise & read Searchlight for the real facts about the EDL !

      You seem to want to say that all Left-Wing Groups are the same – actually many Searchlight Activists would be very critical of the opinions of the Morning Star Faction – Who would be completely different to the Trotskyite SWP people found in UAF . I have already alluded to the fact that both Searchlight & Myself have many serious political differences with UAF – obviously I am extremely concerned about SWP control of UAF & the Anti-Zionist atmosphere that SWP/UAF brings with it .

      The campaign that HNH/Searchlight have recently undertaken against Islamic Extremism is very new – but surely You should give HNH/Searchlight credit for developing the right policies – do You know that the SWP & UAF have made Sectarian criticism of this campaign ? Historically Searchlight has campaigned against the Far Right – all Anti-Fascist organisations have only gradually started to address the growing thrat from Jihadist Terrorism . Your criticisms of HNH could equally be applied to all the mainstream Jewish Community organisations Who have also been slow to act on these matters . Finally Searchlight concentrates mainly on infiltrating the BNP & EDL to collate Secret Intelligence .

      You say the EDL has a ” Jewish Division ” . This so-called ” Jewish Division ” is an extremely small & unrepresentative group existing mainly on passive Facebook membership . I have personally met the leader of the EDL/JD , ( and although She obviously sincerely believes that She is doing the right thing & is principled enough to Actively campaign for Israel on the streets ) I found Her to be very problematic in the way She campaigned at AHAVA & saw Her argue with members of Our demonstration in a Sectarian way . The AHAVA demonstration had to request that She & Her Group be given a seperate Pen area to demonstrate in so that We could distance Ourselves from the unwanted & uninvited EDL/JD presense at AHAVA .

      Finally , I think that it is quite unfair for You to say that HNH/Searchlight have not demonstrated that They are the friends of Jews . Do You know that one of the founding members of Searchlight volunteered to serve in The I.D.F when He was younger ? Searchlight has had many leading Jewish Activists . Many Searchlight Undercover Agents show fantastic Courage & self-sacrifice in infiltrating the Far-Right Groups that continue to have vicious Anti-Semitism as their core-ideology – Their Bravery helps protect The Jewish Community from Terrorist Attacks & Anti-Semitic violence – I think that You should show a little more gratitude for that support !

      • “Sorry all Your piece about the senior Police Officer’s statements proves is the rather inadequate nature of His analysis of the EDL – of course a Police Officer Who may well be very politically prejudiced against the Left…”

        You show your bigotry here. You assume that only “the Left” can be independent-minded. Yet as a Leftist, you automatically assume that a national police team of a hundred experts is less capable and is more biased than a few scruffy communists who hang out with Searchlight/HNH. The information from the Left regarding the “far right fascism” around militant islam has been abysmally inaccurate. The Left was universally accusing EDL of having put up the “Gay Free Zone” (Homos Heraus!) stickers in Nottingham and London in July, October and February this year, and I didn’t see Searchlight doing anything to “investigate” this homophobic fascism, nor did I see Hope Not Hate mount a campaign against such hatred. All the witness statements and CCTV imagery demonstrated that the men doing this were “asian” (poor hindus and sikhs getting tarred with muslim fascism) — all the men arrested for it, and the man charged, had muslim names. Imagine the song-and-dance HNH/Searchlight would have made if those stickers had said “Juden Heraus” and they had been put up by people with white skin – but because it was muslims attacking homosexuals, you just ignored it. Searchlight hasn’t bothered to expose the muslim groups calling repeatedly for gay people to be executed over the years – that’s obviously a form of hatred that is seen as permissible to “the leading anti-fascist” organisation. And now you just want to make excuses for your own bias, bigotry and apathy.

        You cite Copeland’s prior connections with the BNP (I think he was no longer a member at the time of his bombing campaign), as implying that any supporter of EDL who previously voted BNP is equally murderous and hateful as Copeland. Copeland appears to have been a lone loon — yet the jihadis have been demonstrating for a decade that they are working in a co-ordinated way, attacking across international boundaries, and attacking a variety of targets. And the hatred by these muslim extremists is meted out on parliamentarians, jewish organisations and individuals, gay organisations and individuals, lone women, teenage-girls, and random members of the public. Yet still Searchlight/HNH have chosen to ignore this for more than ten years. You say “Historically Searchlight has campaigned against the Far Right – all Anti-Fascist organisations have only gradually started to address the growing thrat from Jihadist Terrorism”. And you accuse the Police of bias?? My politics are neither right nor left, but correct me if I’m wrong, but “National Socialism” was a form of socialism and therefore left-wing. Didn’t the fascists hate the Italian monarchy? Lefties like you seem to have an extraordinarily simplistic grasp of politics – it never seems to cross your mind that left-wing terrorism and hatred are just as bad as right-wing hatred and terrorism, and that when there is discrimination and hatred, the skin colour of those perpetrating it should not be a factor. You create organisations like “Hope Not Hate” where you try to take over the very definition of hatred, and then choose to ignore those brown-skinned islamo-fascists who were ever-so closely entwined with the Nazis, just because they don’t fit into your crude and simplistic definitions of “fascist” or “hatred”. Amazing how their skin colour blinds you, isn’t it? What is that if it is not racism on the part of Lefties like you?

        The Left have aided and abetted jihadis and islamo-fascists, by twenty years spent focusing on the BNP when they should ALSO have been focused on the muslim fanatics, . You can’t even use ignorance as an excuse — Peter Tatchell and the gay group Outrage were trying to draw the Left’s attention to these things from the early 1990s. Outrage was one of the groups who used to picket Hizb ut Tahrir conferences (at threat of death from the islamo-fascists): http://www.petertatchell.net/religion/islamic.htm . Yet the so-called anti-fascist organisations like UAF and HNH/Searchlight have done nothing about the rise of islamo-fascism. Is it any wonder most of us now despise the blinkered and craven Left? Is it any wonder that across europe, and even liberal Canada, it is the right-wing who are gaining ground everywhere? It’s been down to right-wingers like Melanie Phillips to point out that throughout the last decade the anti-semitic violence in London has been rising year-on-year, and to point out that muslims are disproprotionately represented in this violence. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_4_anti-semitism.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7831897.stm Yet when has Searchlight/HNH focused on this?

        When has HNH/Searchlight ever exposed the far-right fascism of the muslim extremists? Hizb ut Tahrir seeks to abolish democracy, to gear the entire pan-national fascist state to be in permanent war, to execute homosexuals, to destroy Israel, and to institute religious apartheid against dominated non-muslims. They’ve been around in Britain for 25 years and are banned in Germany because of their anti-semitism — how can you not be embarrassed that your “leading anti-fascist” organisation has been silent on such extreme fascism? Hizb ut Tahrir has had conferences where they had between 1,000 and 10,000 attendees. I assume you and your “brave” undercover “anti-fascists” have actually attended a BNP conference, so please enlighend me — in the last 20 years or so, has the BNP EVER had 1,000 people at a conference? Please cite the issue numbers or even months/years when Searchlight published any expose of those islamo-fascsists (you can’t do it, and that’s why Searchlight is a joke). Where was Searchlight/HNH last Sunday when British muslims were once again calling for the extermination of the jews? Why were you not videoing that and putting that on the HNH website? Even allowing that HNH/Searchlight have been irresponsible and blinkered for the last 25 years, since last November when one of your “brave” investigators heard for himself (what has been obvious to everyone else for years) that British islamo-fascists wanted to re-create the muslim Waffen SS, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE SINCE THEN TO EXPOSE ISLAMO-FASCISM? I have seen not once piece of action from Searchlight/HNH — the muslim fascists putting up “Gay Free Zone” stickers would have been an opportunity for the Left to show that it will stand up to brown-skinned fascism, but you did nothing. The actions of muslims outside the Israeli Embassy was another opportunity to expose their genocidal jew hatred.

        So, I’m not posting uncritical comments about the EDL. I’m posting informed comments. You are the one who is posting uncriticial AND uninformed comments. According to the UAF, when the BNP representative on the Greater London Authority turned up at an EDL meeting, asking what he could do for the EDL, he was met with a damning critique of the BNP’s history of racism, anti-semitism and holocaust denial. http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2010/11/edl-rejects-barnbrook-approach.html According to the EDL, when he was still hanging around after that roasting, he was told to leave before he was stabbed! Yet still Searchlight/HNH continue to treat the EDL as though it was aligned to the BNP. On the EDL website one of their leaders (a Sikh) has posted a statement explicitly denouncing the BNP, because he’s tired of people saying the message is not getting through: http://englishdefenceleague.org/content.php?329-A-Letter-To-Our-Ideological-Opponents

        I couldn’t care about the different debates raging between dinosaur left-wingers about the number of proletarians who can dance on the head of a pin. I’m interested in stopping hatred and discrimination — whether that hatred is based on race, religion, sexuality or class. But what you are proving is that for you, fighting such hatred is just a means to satisfy a wider communist agenda. You are the people who have usurped the fight against hatred and turned it into a vehicle for your extraneous political ends. Being opposed to anti-semitism should be something that we demand of the left and the right; being anti-gay is something for which we should denounce black or white people. Because of the racism of the left, they will permit anti-semitism and homophobia if the people doing it have brown skin. Worse still, the Left will oppose those who say “no, such hatred is wrong, whatever your colour or religion”!

        Finally , I think that it is quite laughable that you seek to silence criticism of the pathetic years of failure of Searchlight/HNH by saying one of the founders of Searchlight volunteered to serve with the IDF when he was younger. Hooray! Super! Let’s all worship him and put him and those associated with him beyond all criticism. Oh, hang on… didn’t Roberta Moore also go to Israel and volunteer for the IDF and fight for them? So does that mean we should put her and the EDL beyond criticism? If my information is correct, she then went and joined the British Army. So she has demonstrated her willingness to die for Israel, and her willingness to die for Britain. Yet still your organisation alleges she would have truck with Nazis.

      • “Sorry all Your piece about the senior Police Officer’s statements proves is the rather inadequate nature of His analysis of the EDL – of course a Police Officer Who may well be very politically prejudiced against the Left ( as the Morning Star article said the Police spend much of Their time spying on Trade Unions & Left Groups ) ”

        The Morning Star? Trust a loon like you to get his ‘info’ from the Morning Star, a childish rag produced by eternal fifth-formers.

      • “The Morning Star? Trust a loon like you to get his ‘info’ from the Morning Star, a childish rag produced by eternal fifth-formers.” Er, Leah, it was James L, attempting to defend the EDL, who used the Morning Star as a source to claim that the EDL is “not far right”. Anyway, do you prefer the Daily Mail? “A demonstration by far-right group the English Defence League again descended into violence today as extremists began fighting among themselves.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372725/Shaming-St-Georges-Cross-Vile-EDL-thugs-2-000-strong-hate-protest-wear-flag-coloured-burkas-confront-Muslims.html#ixzz1N4DU28ZY

        Or: “At the same time, five other members of the far right EDL and another person were arrested at various addresses on suspicion of conspiracy to cause an explosion at a Bournemouth mosque.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298086/Seven-arrested-Bournemouth-far-right-mosque-bomb-plot.html#ixzz1N4DxSxtG

        See also http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373996/Family-grandmother-killed-Muslim-driver-slam-EDL-thugs-using-picture-hate-protest.html

    • On the police and the EDL: “Following the Manchester protest, when 48 people were arrested during street violence, the Bolton Interfaith Council Executive issued a stark warning that race relations were under threat and Communities Secretary John Denham compared the EDL to Oswald Mosley’s Union of British Fascists, who ran amok in the Thirties. In response to these fears, the National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit, a countrywide police team set up to combat domestic extremism, has been investigating the EDL.
      ‘The concern to me is how groups like this, either willingly or unwillingly, allow themselves to be exploited by very extreme right-wing groups like the National Front and the British Freedom Fighters,’ Metropolitan Police chief Sir Paul Stephenson has said…
      Professor Matthew Goodwin, an expert on far-right organisations who has advised the Home Office, says that the police are right to monitor the EDL and to take them seriously.
      ‘(The EDL) is now well-organised and not just a minor irritant. It has become a rallying point for a number of different groups and to have them marching through sensitive areas is a major concern.'”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1238213/This-England-On-trail-English-Defence-League.html#ixzz1N4GIr6Pp

      • but remember also:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Außerparlamentarische_Opposition

        Joschka Fischer – later German Foreign Minister and as best I can tell respected to this day – belonged and not as a non-violence advocating bystander. When he came to his senses, I don’t know. But at least once he threw a stone at a policeman, so I guess he was watched very intently.

        oh btw way back then or rather still during the run-up to their heyday we moaned that the authorities would watch the right much more fearfully than they would watch the left.

  34. Ian,

    The Israel Haters desperately want to link Zionism with the Far Right because they realise that this would sabotage Jewish Community engagement with Civil Society – We must do everything We can to repudiate the EDL .

    What about the Israel Haters in the Unions? Any data on them? Any brave undercover agents reporting from them?

    Your info on the behaviour of the German left in pre-war Germany makes me suspect that you are oversimplifying things.

    Of course I am aware that ties with the right will get Israel bad press from the oh so virtuous left, but will it really be worse than what they get now?

    Already another British Baron at the UN has had his grab at the headlines by bashing Israel for Sunday’s happenings way before all the facts are known. He is from the Labour party? Is Labour on the left in Britain?

    • Dear Silke ,

      Yes there is obviously a major problem with Anti-Israel activity The Trade Union Movement – that activty is again orchestrated by Political Groups like the SWP & others Who attempt to Hijack Our movement for their own Sectarian motives – Most Trade Union Members are unaware of this activity & would not support it – I am an Activist with Trade Union Friends Of Israel Who campaign against the Boycott & advocate a constructive dialogue between The Histadrut & The Palestinian General Federation Of Trade Unions to aid the Peace Process & build Unity between British , Israeli & Palestinian Workers .

      http://www.tufi.org.uk/

      http://www.tuliponline.org/

      Same goes for The Labour Party : Labour Friends Of Israel .

      http://www.lfi.org.uk/

      • Ian

        how noble you make it sound

        a constructive dialogue between The Histadrut & The Palestinian General Federation Of Trade Unions to aid the Peace Process & build Unity between British , Israeli & Palestinian Workers .

        By now I’ve spent quite a bit of time in the blogosphere and whenever I heard the word progressive the next I read was Israel must do this, that and the other.

        I was never told by “progressives/constructives” the Palestinians must do this, that and the other.

        I sincerely look forward to your proving that I am wrong, that I have missed out on all kinds of stuff, that my view is heavily skewed and so on and so forth. Nobody could be happier than I am if for one, only once I could come personally across somebody who doesn’t ask Israel to spin straw to gold.

      • ”a constructive dialogue between The Histadrut & The Palestinian General Federation Of Trade Unions to aid the Peace Process & build Unity between British , Israeli & Palestinian Workers .”

        @Ian: I can’t believe this stuff. What Palestinians? Do you mean the fakestinians who are really Arabs occupying Jewish land. What peace process? Do you mean the suicide bombers, qassams, sudden jihad attacks, genocidal charters etc. You are really living in noddy land mate…..take the ideological peace and love neo-Marxist blinders off and face reality. What you fail to do is recognise the nature of evil. Do you understand? Evil. Amalek. Nazis. Islam. Evil that wants to kill Jews. You don’t dialogue with this. You crush it out of existence before it annihilates you.

      • Dear Silke ,

        I fear that You are misunderstanding what I am saying . I am using the words constructive dialogue to differentiate Our approach from the negative behaviour of Anti-Israel Groups like The Palestine Solidarity Campaign Who advocate Boycotts of Israel & breaking links between British Trade Union s & The Histadrut .

        I do indeed believe that it is noble that Activists from Trade Union Friends Of Israel ( many of Whom are not Jewish ) are standing up for Fairness & basic Trade Union values of building Unity with all The Workers in Israel/Palestine & facing the hysterical bullying from the Anti-Peace extremists from the Totalitarian Left within Our Movement .

      • Dear Roger ,

        We have debated this issue before & I don’t really have the time or energy to rehash old arguments .

        As a Trade Unionists it is My responsibility to build Fraternal links with Workers from all Countries – I am glad to help promote discussion & Solidarity with My fellow Israeli & Palestinian Brothers and Sisters – I also have Arab-Israeli & Palestinian Friends Who bear no relation to the image that You portray Them as .

        As a Jew & a Zionist it is My duty to campaign against Anti-Israel prejudice within The Trade Union Movement & to do everything that I can to assist Israeli & Palestinian Trade Unionists to engage in the dialogue that could be so important in reaching a Peaceful future for both Peoples .

        I am proud of all the efforts that so many Trade Unionists ( both Jewish & Non-Jewish ) play in building confidence & Unity for all the Workers in Israel/Palestine .

  35. Congrats to Daniel …

    Aren’t you good at getting worthwhile discussions going …

    I, of course know nothing of either organisations, I just perceive that the old divisions between right and left are not adequate any longer. Heck, if I can become an admirer of a pious man and, more importantly, trust him to respect my personal freedom, new frontlines have to be established.

  36. Sharon Klaff

    Thank you Silke and James Lovelace for saying what I would have said. I researched Searchlight many years ago and decided it wwas not for me – as I understand it, it is communist inspired. I am not a communist and certainly not even a socialist, so I guess then I must be “right wing”!!

    Ian, our solution to Jew hatred and Israel bashing is certainly not through the Unions and the left wing agenda. Perhaps you have heard that the left have a strange alliance with Islam and both hate Jews using Israel as the focus so they cannot be accused of Judeophobia. If they didn’t hate Jews why do you suppose Ian that our university campuses are so riven with pro Islamic anti Jewish activities? Why are there so many boycotts against Israeli doctors, academics, food, businesses?

    From what I heard at the Bicom meeting on Sunday there is very little understood about the BDS and how they function. We were told by the Israeli expert that we have to tell those who call Israel an Apartheid state that it is not and we were told by the person on that panel who spoke about Islam that “Islamism” is a relatively new phenomonen!! Neither signed the petition of C4T calling the BBC to expose the true face of Hamas. These are the mainstream you are referring to so why should I rely on them for my safety and that of the land of the Jews?

    When I received an annonymous hate letter from a man who had served in the British Army in the Palestinian Mandate pre 1948, I called CST and they were not interested. I did my own research and uncovered an entire network of pro Arab Jew haters in Wales who were and I guess still are very active against Jews and Israel. The then mainstream Jewish community were not interested and I guess that is why so little is known about the Palestine Scrapbook that is so supported by journalists who write for newspapers like the Independent.

    • Dear Sharon ,

      I think that You have honestly addressed the major difference between Our different approaches in campaigning for Israel – You are Politically Conservative & I am Politically Socialist – There is nothing wrong with holding either opinion but We should recognise that We may take very different approaces & Hasbara techniques in Our work .

      I sincerly believe that Israel Activists must work within Progressive parts of Civil Society ( The Trade Unions , Student Unions/Universities , LGBT Communities , Womens Groups , The Churches , etc ) because these are the areas in which Our Anti-Zionist enemies are concentrating their efforts & being so sucsessful – We need to take the Fight to the enemy & comprehensively defeat their Anti-Semitic propaganda . This strategy to defeat the Anti-Israel extremists has been advocated in great deal by the Israeli Reut Institute NGO Group – I think that Reut has by far the most knowledgable & dynamic proposals for combatting the Global Anti-Israel Movement & I believe that The Jewish Community should immediately start to implement it’s campaigning tactics .

      http://www.reut-institute.org/

      • Ian
        am I right in getting more than a whiff of friendliness towards JStreet from that Reut outfit’s site?

      • Dear Silke ,

        I don’t think that The Reut Institute has anything to do with JStreet – I personally have many criticisms of JStreet – Reut is purely saying that Israel’s Supporters in the Diaspora are best placed to start Their Own Grassroots Campaign for Israel & take the Fight to the Enemy .

      • “I sincerly believe that Israel Activists must work within Progressive parts of Civil Society ( The Trade Unions , Student Unions/Universities , LGBT Communities , Womens Groups , The Churches , etc ) ”

        I see that this eternal fifth-former thinks that ‘The’ [sic] Churches are ‘progressive’. Dear, dear … what was it that Huss said as the peasant woman added a stick as he was being murdered at the stake?
        The Methodist church is antisemitic. The Quakers are antisemitic. The idiot Rowan Williams appeases Islamists. So does the idiot bishop of York. These clerical sewers are anything but ‘progressive’.

  37. Avi Abraham

    Hi All,
    A big thanks to all those that came to the rally on Sunday. Regarding the argument here regarding the ‘EDL’ or EDL Jewish division, at the time when organizing the rally, the CST had some concerns that they would turn up to our event. However they came and peacefully stood opposite us.
    On a personal level, I am not sure what to make of the whole ‘EDL support for Israel’ situation. I do know that they have a terrible public image, but then so does Israel.
    I had messages sent to me in support and against them showing up and someone sent me a link below to check out. To a certain extent it does seem they have been treated unfairly. Please give your thoughts on the 9 minute video below. Thanks.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/edlmediawatch#p/a/u/1/no1HlGC7bIg

    • I think most of the video is very well done but it loses a bit of impact when it shows the EDL in all its diversity (it feels a bit like poster-childism) – that’s no criticism from my part it is a fact universally acknowledged (as Jane Austen would have said) that it is impossible to convincingly show/prove/demonstrate what you are not.

      They come back to first class effective with that last version of the “cake” graphic.

      As I have said here months ago, as far as I can see from my very very scarcely imbibed info and from being from another country.

      The EDL seems to have started in quite an ad-hoc manner and their muscular approach is of course attractive to some people we self-appointed nice ones don’t consider especially civilised. The proof will be in how well they manage their membership.

      Remember the German Greens managed to “acculturate” our throwing stones at the police of the 70s and turned one of them into a Foreign Minister who apparently was considered respectable around the world.

      • “their muscular approach is of course attractive to some people we self-appointed nice ones don’t consider especially civilised”

        Then don’t consider me civilised.
        Whatever.
        I’d rather ally with the EDL than live under sharia and be considered ‘nice’.
        Many people who oppose the EDL are simply snobs, including many who think they are on the ‘progressive left’ but would run a mile rather than meet genuine working-class people. And some of them would rather ally with Islamo-fascists than with genuine working-class people, especially those who have tattoos in the wrong place (a butterfly on one’s shoulderblade is fine, of course, it’s sooooo cool and trendy, one can even see it in Vogue, the Bible of champagne socialists).

  38. Avi Abraham

    Richard
    Can you upload the Israel vid to youtube please?

    • richardmillett

      done. why haven’t i done this earlier. thanks. i will upload other clips also.

  39. “It is testament to the power of propaganda that the Palestinians and their “supporters” still react with incredible rage to an event that never concerned them and that happened 63 years ago.”

    One, moreover, that never happened. To call it ‘naqbah’ is like calling the defeat of the Third Reich a ‘naqbah’ for the poor innocent Germans.

    • Leah
      don’t rejoice prematurely – as best I can tell we haven’t given up the warm-up phase is still in trying its best

      • Eh?????

      • I am German, so I should know a bit about it and there are many actors working on establishing the Germans’ right to have their grievances acknowledged.

      • I simply didn’t understand what you were driving at in yours of 7:44, which I found somewhat opaque.

  40. “To a certain extent it does seem they have been treated unfairly. ”

    They have been vilified and demonised by the same scum that vilify and demonise Israel: Al Beeb, Al Guardian and the rest of the lefto-fascists determined to destroy this country.

  41. Hope Not Hate are scum. They are extremely selective in who they speak up for, and they have never come out publicly in support of Jews and Israel against genocidal Islamo-Nazis.

    • Dear Leah ,

      Your Comments are ridiculous & offensive – see My above posting that outlines in detail HNH/Searchlight infiltration of Anti-Semitic Hate Groups – many Jewish Communities have been saved from Anti-Semitic attacks by the amazing Courage of Searchlight Agents .

      • Your refusal to face reality – if it really is that, and not a deliberate decision to have a closed mind in the face of the Islamic onslaught on the free and civilised world – is what is ridiculous and offensive.
        Once again, you do NOT speak for all Jews, only those with a closed mind.

    • Daniel Marks

      Hi Leah,

      By way of clarification, are Hope Not Hate “pond scum” or some other type of scum? In the latter eventuality, could you elaborate?

  42. Sharon Klaff

    As far as I am concerned their is only one “far right” group to investigate and that is Islam and the introduction by stealth of Sharia Law into the UK. It seems nobody on the left is prepared to do this. I don’t read Searchlight as I expended them years ago as too left wing for me. Like many who write on this blog, I too resent the left putting it about that they are the only ones with the answers and the morality required to run a democratic country. I am happy to shake the hand of anyone who doesn’t want to be governed under Sharia Law – the biggest threat this country faces and hence that Jews face.

    • Sharon

      judging by all criteria I read that are applied to Left and Right I am definitely on the Left. But I hope and am pretty sure that that fact hasn’t damaged my ability to connect with reality. That said ,much to my amazement it turns out that these days whenever I take to somebody online it turns out he/she is from an area that in my youth I wouldn’t have touched with the proverbial barge poles. It seems sanity, clear thinking, good ethics wander around and feel better in different groups at different times.

      And since I am a fan of cool fresh air, delicious to breathe, I realise that right now I find that more readily available amongst people of convictions I had good reason to stay away from when I was young.

      And the most beautiful thing of it all is that those people who used to be so close-minded (eng-stirnig) in my youth are now the more open, the more tolerant and the more accommodating for stubborn think for themselves like myself.

  43. roger at 9:31

    Elder of Ziyon told that there are in fact lots of Palestinian workers in Judäa and Samaria who defy their sham of a government and keep working happily for Israelis. Maybe these are the workers Ian is talking about.

    But somehow I can’t see these workers having a union because otherwise in months and months of reading of the back and forth between the PA trying to force/entice the workers to stop working somewhere somehow the word union should have crept up.

    So maybe that elusive Palestinian Union is another one of those PA Potemkin-style endeavours which they wave around to get money from their donors?

    Maybe we should ask Ian very politely but very insistently to provide us with very detailed and checkable info on the doings and affiliations of these unions. If it were unions of honest PalArab workers delivering an honest day’s work for an honest pay I’m willing to listen further. Otherwise I’ll label it sham as so many nobel sounding things before.

    • Dear Silke ,

      Very politely I suggest that You contact the PGFTU directly if You want detailed & checkable info on Palestinian Union matters – I’m not part of The PGFTU so I can’t provide You with that type of information .

      • No Ian
        I won’t contact them directly. You presented them as a saintly outfit that one should woe – if I do that I know something about that outfit BEFORE I sell them for being the truly good ones.

  44. A bit OT but an interesting account of the ‘We Believe in Israel’ event. Maybe next year it should be renamed ‘Apologists United’

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/05/inside-the-we-believe-in-israel-conference/

  45. Roberta Moore

    Ian Sternberg,
    Yes, you met me. And I challenged you to explain to me what a “nice” Jewish man like you was doing by writing for the utterly biased, defamatory Searchlight. And what did you do in response? You simply shrugged.

    You saw me at the Ahava many times, and guess what? We only came because the security guard of the Ahava was EMBARRASSED for having such a minuscule support from the Jewish side. Once we arrived, he was beaming! He said his heart fills with joy when we come, because we have balls.
    We make noise. You do NOT.

    You said:

    Quote

    [Jewish Groups from The Board Of Deputies Of British Jews to The Zionist Federation , & Jews Against The EDL , have all condemned the EDL’s links with the Far-Right & violent Football gangs – the EDL is completely unwelcome at any Jewish Demonstration & activities .]

    I don’t know WHO are you to claim such rubbish. The BOD are a bunch of appeasers. I have evidence of their “gala” dinners where they have invited MUSLIM diplomats from hostile countries to share their “Kosher” meals with them.. oh yes, and also drinking champagne. So the BOD means NOTHING to us. Their opinions are dirt under my shoes. Who cares about what these kapos think? I certainly don’t.

    Jews against the EDL? Hahah! Who are they? They are just a name. Their Facebook page has been inactive ever since it opened. And all the posts there are in SUPPORT of the EDL. Swallow that.

    As for the “Zionist” Federation, well.. what can I say? Care to tell me when were they ever really Zionist? All they do is lend Israeli flags or demos but FAIL MISERABLY to show on Shabbat and even at other times, when there are Pro-Israel demos, even when they have nothing to do with the EDL.

    Failures all of them. But let’s not forget the CST, I can’t leave them out can I? What have they ever done for us? I am a JEW. Why is the CST against ME? Is it because I lead the EDL Jewish Division? Boohooo! I could not care less. They are nothing. And for the record, there were only 3 of them at the demo on Sunday. What could these poor guys do if there had been a riot? I would have loved to see them try to contain the Muslims.

    The EDL are experts on this. We fight back. We have more stewards at our demos than you could possibly get from the CST. Frankly the CST is a JOKE.

    Now get your facts right. The EDL is NOT only comprised of football hooligan thugs. HOW DARE YOU????
    Are you calling me a football hooligan? Are you calling ALL our members football hooligans?

    Once again I quote you:

    [The CST Who collect Intelligence on Far Right Groups which endanger the safety of The Jewish Community ) – I think that You should ask Yourself why the whole Jewish Community Framework condemns the EDL – it is it because We have good reasons to mistrust the aims & methods of the EDL !]

    Let’s see what the CST has on us then. I challenge them to PROVE that every single one of our members are football hooligans, dangerous to “the whole Jewish community”, BNP , Nazis and Fascists. Go ahead. I am challenging every single pathetic claim you have made here. And I won’t have your “opinions” as evidence. Bring us facts.

    The media (including the idiotic JC) accuses me of having BNP links. I also challenge them to prove it. You lot like to demonise us but I tell you what, none of you can prove a single thing you claim. And I am frankly HORRIFIED with the fact that you too jump on the wagon of demonization of the EDL. What’s your problem? Are you scared that the EDL is more popular than that pathetic Searchlight magazine?
    Tough isn’t it? We are. Deal with it.

    Again more crap from you:

    [The presense of the EDL on Jewish Community demonstrations is deeply embarrasing to The Jewish Community & provides ammunition that Anti-Zionists use as propaganda against Israel – the EDL is completely unwelcome on any activity that We organise & no Jews should touch them with a Bargepole !!!]

    The presence of the EDL is a heaven sent to ALL of us. I speak as a JEW now. YOU are the embarrassment to the Jewish community. Your lies are disgraceful and completely unfounded. How exactly is the EDL providing ammunition that anti-Zionists use as propaganda against Israel, you foolish creature?
    Here you are claiming that we are unwelcome in any activity you organize, and yet I have to laugh because you don’t organize anything. And when you do it is a pathetic failure.
    I think Jews should not touch YOU and any other KAPO as yourself with a bargepole indeed, not the EDL, because “football hooligans, skinheads and Nazis” as we are, we welcome ALL races and ALL religions.
    You on the other hand, reject even your own. KAPO indeed!

    Watch these and tell me how exactly we are BAD for Zionists and Israel.

    As you can see most of the posters here support us, and they think HNH and SEARCHLIGHT are scum. Guess what? So do I. I think both of these organizations are pathetic, biased and worse of all, ISLAMIC APPEASERS.

    I find YOUR comments about the EDL highly offensive so if I have offended you with my comments, GOOD. Don’t thank me though as the pleasure was all mine.

    I hope you think twice before you open your mouth to say lies about the EDL again, because if you cannot prove the crap you say, it is considered LIBEL. Remember that. You made libellous comments about us.

    My challenge to you and everyone else who regretfully thinks like you, remain. PROVE we are racist. Prove we are BNP. Prove we are fascist. Or STFU before we get pissed off with people like you who LIE about us just to make yourself sound important. You are NOT. Digest it.

    We are here to stay. We WILL continue to support Israel, we WILL continue to fight for Israel and if you are too damn stupid to get to grips with that, then that is tough. Am I bothered? LOL! Should I be? Haha!

    Your lies will not go far Ian Sternberg, and neither will the lies of your Searchlight, HNH and all the COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST crap you follow, for you are the real NAZIS against your people.

    My advice to you: Do not let your tongue overtake your brain. If you have nothing constructive to say, then please return to your insignificance.

    Ps. I hope Richard Millet (Who by the way has guts, and is a person I have grown to like, just like Jonathan Hoffmann) does not remove this comment from here.
    These 2 guys were the first ones I saw in the Jewish community showing some guts, something you truly lack.

    Am Israel chai!
    No Surrender to scum!!!

    Roberta Moore
    Leader – EDL Jewish Division

    • Dear Roberta ,

      First of all I refrained from using Your name & I tried to describe You in My post with respect as somebody Who has sincerely believes that They are doing right even if I think that They are misguided in the Organisation They are members of . I will try to ignore the insults that You have made against Me & just let People judge Your Organisation by Your Own language & arguments .

      In return You show just the type of offensive Sectarianism that I spoke of .

      Point By Point :

      1 : I didn’t simply shrugg I had a copy of Searchlight in My hand that I showed You – I just couldn’t believe that You would deny EDL crossover with Far-Right Groups even when Searchlight extensively documents them . Your comment about Searchlight being utterly biased and defamatory make Me question why a member of the Jewish Community would criticise an Organisation that has defended the Jewish Community from Anti-Semitism for decades .

      2 : Why is The CST against You ? is it because You call Them a joke even when thousands of Them give up Their time week in week out to help safeguard Our Jewish Schools & Synagogues & meetings ? Are You aware of the Intelligence that The CST gathers on Anti-Semitic Groups & Islamic Extremists ? Mayby it’s because You call Their fellow Organisation The BOD Kapos ? Mayby it’s because They just believe that it is wrong that You allign Yourself with a Group like the EDL that is damaging to the interests of The Jewish Community .

      3 : If You want to call making extremist unitelligable slogans in a screeching fashion Making noise then I’m glad I don’t make noise – I’d rather engage with members of the public in a reasonable & effective way !

      4 : You continually use the vile & offensive term Kapo to smear Anybody in The Jewish Community Who criticises Your Organisation – it is utterly repugnant that You call The Board Of Deputies Appeasers & Kapos . You question whether The Zionist Federation were ever really Zionist !!! what a ludicrous allegation – The Zionist Federation has been Supporting Israel for over a century . The Zionist Federation has organised dozens of demos over the years from demonstrating in support of The Israeli MIAs to demonstrating in support of Israel outside the Israeli Embassy during The Second Lebanon War & after the Flotilla incident .

      5 : The Jews Against The EDL Facebook page was indeed swamped with offensive comments because supporters of The EDL made a policy of posting on it – Who would want to post supportive comments when They would be subjected to the sort of bullying language that was used there ?

      6 : I never said You were a Football Hooligan , I never said that all Your members were Football Hooligans – But even You would admit that many EDL members are Football Hooligans . One of the Leaders of The EDL said that Football Hooligans were a fundamental part of his vision because They were up for Violence & already in the areas of demonstrations on Saturdays because of the Matches . Do You really think that The Jewish Community would not be concerned about an organisation that has Football Hooligan Gangs as a major component ?

      7 : I have never claimed that You are in any way connected to the BNP – but again some EDL members are . I certainly beg to differ that the EDL is more popular in The Jewish Community than Searchlight is – I challenge You to try & do a joint meeting with The Union Of Jewish Students like Searchlight do – I think that They would tell You in no uncertain terms that You would not be welcome !

      8 : Why You provide ammunition for Anti-Zionists – The AHAVA Counter-Demonstration was continually smeared by the Boycotters as joint demonstrating with the EDL every time You appeared staged photos appeared of Us ( taken from behind etc & including My conversation about The EDL with You ) these were taken up by other Anti-Zionists like Tony Greenstein as proving Zionist Federation links with The EDL . Everybody Who knows Me realises that I have no support for The EDL ( and They certainly will now ! ) but it is embarrasing for The ZF & for Our work in organisations like The Trade Union Movement if They see such propaganda & believe it – Anti-Zionists see such propaganda as a very useful way of sabotaging Hasbara work in Civil Society .

      9 : Only one or two posters have said that They might be unsure about what They think about You Organisation – I have purely provided information & links from Searchlight for People to make up Their Own minds . HNH & Searchlight are none of the things that You accuse Them of -They have spent decades protecting The Jewish Community from
      Anti-Semitic Violence .

      10 : I wonder how Your comments would stand up to the sort of detailed Intelligence that Searchlight , CST , The Police & M.I.5 have about the EDL – just for the record the last person Who threatened Me with Libel was an Anti-Zionist Who objected to My Support for Israel on a local Newspaper site .

      11 : I am not remotely interested in being important or sounding important I just do what I do because it is My responsibility to Support Israel & The Jewish People .

      12 : Roberta You are right that Richard & Jonathan have guts – so do I -and so do You . This argument is not about Your qualities as a person , as I have said before I know that You care deeply about Israel & You are prepared to stand up for what You believe in – this argument is about whether or not The Jewish Community should lend it’s Support to an Organisation like the EDL an organisation that it cannot control & may eventually prove to be a danger to The Jewish Community & other Ethnic Minority Communities . I urge You to think carefully about what You are doing .

      13 : Your Youtube video is mostly ok but it mainly deals with The Jewish Division which admitedly doesn’t carry all the problematic baggage that the Football groups carry or the dodgy political links that some EDL members have . Also it carries images of people Who are not EDL supporters & demonstrations not organised by the EDL . Finally it even contains a brief shot of Me !!! just before the end – I reckon that Demonstrating on the Streets in Support of Israel rather demolishes Your argument that I am some sort of Kapo !

      Shalom ,

      Ian .

      • “I just do what I do because it is My responsibility to Support Israel & The Jewish People ”

        Has anyone ever explained to you the use of lower- and uppercase?

    • “The BOD are a bunch of appeasers.”

      Hear, hear!

  46. Ian 9:54 pm

    Reut explicitly advises against the Washington embassy not being nice with JStreet …

    NGO-Monitor doesn’t have them listed as who funds them. A short look showed me that they are another of those outfits funded by the US i.e. you’ll never find anybody you can pin down.

    I had for good reasons quite a look at the NIF – it is hopeless to find out to whose call they listen as it is hopeless to find out via whom my own government offices are trying to meddle with Israeli politics. All in all these outfits with such a high flying language as Reut make me feel uneasy. I am willing to get un-paranoided but for the moment I regard them with misgivings, too little straightforwardness.

  47. Ian at 10:04 pm

    The Palestinian General Federation Of Trade Unions

    who and what is this outfit – who are the members, who funds it, who directs it, whom protects it from whom

    and no more generalities please!

    • Dear Silke ,

      They should speak for Themselves – Their Website is :

      http://www.pgftu.org/ensite/

      Obviously as Palestinians They are not Zionists – there will be many things that TUFI & The Histadrut disagree with Them about – but Our role is to debate these issus as Workers & try to find common ground that benefits both Peoples .

      • Ian
        you are not a member of the EDL but seem to be informed really really well about them.

        You promote the cause of Union collaboration emphasising that the Palestinian one is part of the package. But when asked about them, you claim that you can’t provide information because you are not part of them.

        Very politely I suggest that You contact the PGFTU directly if You want detailed & checkable info on Palestinian Union matters – I’m not part of The PGFTU so I can’t provide You with that type of information .

        When I combine those two info-bites I can’t help assuming that you are “part” of the EDL.

        I look forward to your helping me to overcome my confusion.

        Thank you!

      • Dear Silke ,

        I am reluctant as a Jewish Trade Unionists to define The PGFTU .

        But as You have continually pressed Me for information :

        The PGFTU is largly made up of FATAH supporters ( one of the issues about Palestinian Trade Unionism is that They did not held elections for quite a while & many officials were appointed by the political organisations – The PGFTU has more recently increased it’s democratic accountability to it’s membership ) . As FATAH supporters The PGFTU is part of Palestinian Civil Society that advocates participation in the peace process ( obviously They are Palestinian Nationalists Who often criticise Israel very stridently ) . The PGFTU has not called for foreign Trade Unions to boycott The Histadrut . PGFTU members on strike in Gaza have been attacked by HAMAS Who are hostile to Free Trade Unions & the FATAH organisations . I would imagine that PGFTU gets it’s funds from a number of sources including membership dues & grants that the international community gives to build Palestinian civil society – PGFTU also engages in a agreement of co-operation with Histadrut in which Histadrut collects some fees from Palestinians working in Israel which it forwards to The PGFTU for the funding of projects that benefit those Palestinian Workers .

        No doubt Your going to try & pick My arguments apart but I have tried to provide a fair & reasonable answer to your questions .

        Ian .

      • Ian
        I am not trying, I just specialize in discrepancies and so I notice once again how specific you can be when it comes to the EDL
        and how unspecific you are when it comes to the Palestinian union which you praise as promising models for cooperation.

        (Israeli organisations have their own reasons to work with their counterparts in Judäa and Samaria which are so complicated I just take them at their word that they do their very best or at least try to very very hard)

        But you are campaigning for a model of lets call supporting Hasbara and you promise that it will be much more successful than checking what could come out of getting acquainted with the EDL. That you feel the heat from Israel’s enemies for it, is no good argument. You may behave as impeccably as only immortals can, they will still find fault. Therefore I think you must convince us that you speak for the stronger side and for reasons other than that you have the ability to mollify Israel’s critics.

        So here is another specific question:
        The members of the Union are Fatah-members and they have a bias against Israelis which is understandable but that EDL-members have as best I remember a bias against people who hurl abuse at the coffins of dead British soldiers is not understandable?

        From the little I know the Pakistanis most interesting to me are those who defied Fatah’s demand to stop working in the settlements? Were they members of that oh so wonderful Union with the must be tolerated idiosyncracy of saying unfriendly things about Israel to start with, were they allowed to stay in after having disobeyed or don’t they qualify as members anyhow and if so for which reasons?

    • Dear Silke ,
      Sorry I haven’t answered your question yet – after 180 + comments it’s getting a bit hard to follow all the different threads .
      I believe that one of the most important aspects of Israeli/Palestinian/British Trade Union cooperation is that Trade Unionists have working class solidarity as a unifying ground that transcends the poltical differences – this is what makes Trade Union dialogue such a poyentially powerful aspect of the peace process . In terms of trust with The PGFTU – I hope that they are trustworthy & I hope that they believe that we are trustworthy . All Trade Unionists have their own personal opinions & political viewpoints – many PGFTU members have FATAH affiliations , many Histadrut members are connected to The Israeli Labor Party ; many British Trade Unionists are affiliated to The Labour Party – as long as we are honest about our ideas & don’t put them above the search for common ground in the peace process then we will be doing good work .

      Some of what I have just said may sound like generalities but I hope that has given you some idea of how trust should be seen in international conflict resolution .

      • Ian

        it is worse than generalities – it is dodging

        there is the discrepancy

        that you claim to know all about the EDL and tell everybody to stay away from them even though they say nice things about Israel

        and

        that you claim to know next to nothing about the Fatah-Union and tell everybody to embrace them while you warn that they say un-nice things about Israel

        All in all you have convinced me that what you are advocating for is too contradictory and convoluted for me to follow.

        In case you don’t remember what I wanted to know: here it is again:

        what about the Palestinian workers who defied the PA and continued to work in the settlements. What is their relation to the Union?

        You recommend close cooperation with the Union, therefore I expect you to know.

  48. Daniel Marks

    Hello Roberta, – EDL Jewish Division,

    On behalf of your many Israeli fans, I join Ian and others in welcoming you to this excellent blog.

    On the 23rd of July last year I wrote the following mail to your colleague Jack (whose surname eludes me):

    “Hi Jack,

    I would be interested in establishing an Israeli branch of the EDL for ex-patriots, if such a thing does not already exist. Please contact me.”

    Alas, though many months have passed I have yet to receive a reply.

    In the meantime we have launch an unofficial Israeli branch of the Jewish Division of the EDL, meeting occasionally to discuss the relative merits of various, mainly London and Manchester based football teams. Also after seeing you guys waving the Israeli flag and singing G-d Save the Queen we have taken to ending our meetings by hoisting the Union Jack and singing Hatikva. I myself am proud to be the deputy vice chairman of the:

    Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Division of the Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League.

    I was glad that you clarified the fact that you are not a football hooligan, neither am I. While I was responsible for some offensive graffiti as a lad and did try, unsuccessfully, to mutilate a telephone box once, strangely it was the football part that put me off. I would have been happy to inflict light injuries on total strangers, because they were wearing the wrong colored scarves, however, I was always acutely aware that to do so would mean sitting (or more likely standing) through 90 minutes of a game which, quite frankly, bored me silly.

    The thought of just turning up afterwards for the ruck did cross my mind once or twice, but well-informed friends assured me that to do so, with or without a scarf, would not really qualify me as a football hooligan. Also while I was more than willing to be the perpetrator of such violence, the thought of being on its receiving end was distinctly less attractive, and even generated within the contemplations of a timid 13-year-old an odd inexplicable trepidation.

    I convey fraternal greetings to you and the Jewish Branch of the English Defense League football hooligans or otherwise. We would be honored were on your next visit to our region to address us and bestow upon my colleagues and I official EDL (Jewish Division) recognition. We’ll provide the sushi, you bring the Guinness!

    Shalom,

    D. Marks

    Deputy Vice Chairman, Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Division of the Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League

  49. Roberta Moore

    Ian,

    I do not mind if you use my name. I do not use fake names or hide it, so go for it.
    Yes, you described me “respectfully” while attacking the organisation I am part and proud of, as BNP/NAZI-LIKE/FOOTBALL HOOLIGANS/THUGS.
    If they were any of these things do you think I would have joined and opened a Jewish Division? THINK!!!

    In reply to your points:

    1. You DID shrug. And you did show me the magazine but it was too late. Searchlight has COMMUNIST ideas, and as you should know (if you don’t yet know) that communism = fascism. So you are a Fascist Jew. Capisce?
    Searchlight is defamatory because it targets a group which is NOT racist (EDL) instead of actually targeting the real racist/fascist groups such as Hizb-ut-tahrir, MCB, etc…
    Searchlight can criticise all the anti-Semitism they want but if they do not act pro actively to ensure it is properly dealt with, it counts as nothing.
    Where was Searchlight or HNH when we (The Jdiv) managed to cancel 2 hate filledIslamic conferences in the same month, single handedly?
    Where were these organisations when we Hisb-ut-tahrir gave their conference attracting over 1,000 people? NOWHERE. And not a mention of these in any of your silly magazines. If you were question why I DESPISE these organizations, then question no more. Here is your answer in black and white.

    2. The CST is not against ME personally. In fact my dear, I know a few of them myself. But if truth be said they are a Joke. What kind of intelligence have they provided on the EDL to “prove” they are racist/fascist/nazi/BNP? I have not seen a single one. What I have seen are old videos showing some of our members angry and making racist comments indeed, but you cannot use that to tarnish ALL of us. Most of those people were kicked out of the EDL and only 2 weeks ago we also did a major clean up within our ranks. So where is your “evidence” and “intelligence” NOW?
    Yeah yeah…. I see some CST hanging around synagogues and schools, but so what? What does that mean to us Jews as a whole? As I said, only 3 turned up to the demo on Sunday. There is absolutely NO WAY they would be able to contain the mob. The EDL does contain the mob and scare them, precisely because of our reputation. Jews do not scare Muslims in the same manner we do, because we actively and physically campaign against them.

    They can believe me wrong to join the EDL if they want, but until they take a firm and proper stance I could not care less about what they think. They mean nothing to me, and never helped me in any way. The EDL has. It helps us all. Damaging the Jewish community? LOL!! Oh please! Get a grip will you? Since when people supporting the Jewish community and doing demos FOR Israel damages the Jewish community? Enough of this commie crap.

    3. And you have FAILED miserably at that. You criticise us but you provide NOTHING in replacement. And make no mistake, you have no reason whatsoever. Communism has no reason. WHO are you trying to kid here? What are Jews doing by being communists? Have they forgotten Stalin so quickly? Remember Ian that it was NOT the CST that saved the Jews in Russia, but a so-called “Terrorist” Chaim ben Pesach, the JTF leader. A man whom everyone demonizes and yet a man who saved over 1.5 million Jews from the iron veil in Russia. A HERO!!!

    4. I know a Kapo when I see one. If this term is offensive then it is because the hat fits. The ZF and BOD can organize as many demos as they like but while they keep on inviting Muslims from Hostile countries to have dinners with them, and continue to appease them, they are and always will be KAPOS. I won’t go into details on this now, but I could easily expose the truth about what these organizations do behind our backs. The only reason I don’t do it is because I have people I like inside these organisations and do not wish to tarnish all of them with the same brush, although the organization leadership is rubbish.

    5. Are you saying Jews cannot defend themselves? Abusive comments? LOL! What do you expect when the abuse comes first from JEWS who attack us as Nazis? The very picture of that page is offensive. It shows a guy inside our ranks giving a Nazi salute and he is NOT EVEN EDL!!!! So what do you expect us to do? Tolerate this lie? Not on our watch! Perhaps you should show us first the abusive language you lot used to attack the EDL with that disgraceful page. You have no idea of the damage you have done to the Jewish community. No idea!!

    6. Our members are not football hooligans and you know it. The EDL may have started from a group of them, but a lot has changed since then. Besides you should be grateful to these “football hooligans” because they are the ones who are saving your ass right now. It is because of their “hooliganism” that they are taken seriously. Or are you blind not to see that the Muslims only achieve what they want through VIOLENCE???

    We are not violent, but if others attack us we will retaliate. You on the other hand would RUN. We do not fight wars with woossies. Understand? You do not put scribes into a gladiatorial arena. You do not give swords to priests. Get that into your head and wake up. Our organisation has all these things. Street armies, scholars, experts in several fields. We are only 2 years old, and a lot will be changing from now on. We are GLOBAL, haven’t you noticed? GDL (German Defence League), NDL (Norwegian), ADL (Australian) and so on. We ARE making a difference. We ARE getting our message across. Who do you think are doing these things? Football hooligans? Get a grip.

    7. We despise the BNP, Read our website mission statement.
    http://www.englishdefenceleague.org
    And I did not say we are more popular in the “Jewish community”, I said we are more popular WORLDWIDE. To me that sounds a lot more popular than just being popular in the Jewish community. Don’t you think?
    I don’t want to do joint meetings with Searchlight or the Union of students. Why would I want to associate myself with Kapos and appeasers? I am glad I wouldn’t be welcome. I say the same to them. But I must admit, several Jewish students have already joined the EDL. So much for our BNP / NAZI connections, huh? Stop the lies now please.

    8. Ah so because I turn up to support Israel and some mugs take photos of us and make up stories, it is MY FAULT? How dare you? Witch hunting now? Frankly I do not care about any anti-Zionist bloging about us or inventing stories to match with their photos. I have more important things to worry about, such as fighting against Islamisation of this country. And as you said, they were smeared by the boycotters and not myself. And who is Tony Greenstein? What does he mean to me? NOTHING.

    I made leaflets which I paid from my own money, to expose the truth about what Ahava does and PROVING they were not acting illegally. Perhaps you want to compare our leaflets and see which one is better written or stronger in message? Passive fighting leads us nowhere.

    I will reply to the rest in a couple of hours. I have to go out now.

    Roberta

    • Daniel Marks

      “I challenged you to explain to me what a “nice” Jewish man like you was doing by writing for the utterly biased, defamatory Searchlight. And what did you do in response? You simply shrugged.” – Roberta (yesterday 10:13)

      “I didn’t simply shrugg I had a copy of Searchlight in My hand that I showed You..” Ian (today 12:18)

      “You DID shrug. And you did show me the magazine but it was too late.” – Roberta (today 7:41am)

      In fairness when Ian said, “I didn’t simply shrug (his spelling)” his intent was not to deny the shrug altogether. Had that have been his intention; he would doubtless have written “I simply didn’t shrug” or just “I didn’t shrug”. The adverb “simply” was borrowed Roberta. He meant to say that while he had shrugged, that was not all he had done. Specifically, he had also showed Roberta his Searchlight.

      In other words:
      While you say that all I did was to shrug, I did much more than that. I also showed you My (his capitalization) Searchlight.

      Regarding Ian’s frequent capitalization of pronouns such as “My”, “You”, “Their, etc – such usage is not unknown particularly in reference to deity.

      Deputy Vice Chairman, Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Chapter of the Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League

      • Your Excellency, Daniel Marks, Esq.

        I am very sorry to note that my unfortunate habit of not abstaining from splitting the verb as I would do in German is taking more and more root in the so very beloved by me English language.
        I promise myself day in day out to abstain but once I get excited about whatever I forget all about it and split the verb recklessly, if need be by inserting whole sentences.

        So please blame Ian’s “simply” slip on my influence. I and others like me are the really guilty party. I’ll keep trying to overcome this mistreatment of the wonderful language but unless somebody would take it upon him to chastise me every time I suffer a relapse I doubt I’ll have much success.

        I wish your newly founded Office all the success in the world and trust that once you feel that you have consolidated to the point that you can handle online membership I will be allowed to join.

      • Daniel Marks

        Silke,

        Would you like to establish the German Gentile Department of the Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Chapter of the Official Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League? We may still have room.

      • Dear Mr. Deputy Vice Chairman,

        Thank you for your kind invitation – I feel greatly honoured and humbled by your trust in my feeble abilities at the same time.

        Would it be OK for you, if I go by the title

        Gentile German Affiliate

        of the Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Chapter of the Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League and the Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League?

        As I can’t find out from here which of the two is owed precedence I of course am willing to change the order in which I mention you any time provided you can agree on the matter. In the meantime I think I should add an asterisk explaining that the correct order is still under discussion.

        With a heartfelt Count Me In I remain Yours truly devoted to the cause
        Silke
        GGA-MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ-UIUKEBJDEDL*)

        PS: I hope we will soon find activists willing and worthy to establish Chapters in other towns.

        PS: Could it be that your acronym has become victim of a typo? Wouldn’t MAAORCUIUKEBJDEDL be more in sync with your mission?

        *) Correct order of chapters still under discussion.

    • Roberta ,

      Searchlight is not a Communist organisation . Searchlight had some Communists who were leading members ( although many of them were very critical of The CPGB ) but it has members of all political views & none . I am a member of The Labour Party & I don’t call myself a Communist – although if you want to call me a Communist then I’m not going to loose any sleep over it . It’s not very helpful to say that Communism & Fascism are the same – Communism & Fascism are two very different political ideas . Fascism is the complete destruction of political democracy undertaken by a mass movement of the middle-class involving the supression of The Trade Unions – as a Trade unionist & member of The Labour Party it is ludicrous to call me a Fascist Jew – although it was of course meant as an insult .

      Are You admitting that You had a problem with racists that you have recently tried to address ? ok fair enough – lets see what your organisation now does in the future .

      Natan Sharansky said on sunday at the ” We Believe In Israel ” conference that Soviet Jewry was supported by the coalition of students & housewifes . I have just looked up Chaim Ben Pesach on Wikipedia – I encourage readers to do the same & make up their own minds about this man .

      The Zionist Federation only holds an annual dinner – as far as I remember it’s speakers & guests are Israelis & Zionists – I don’t know what You are referring to about Muslims from hostile countries .

      I was shocked by some of the comments placed on the Jews Against The EDL Facebook page ( including the frequent use of the word Kapo ) & I was offended by the statements made against a leading member of Anglican Friends Of Israel who is one of the most active Non-Jewish supporters of Israel . I also objected to the rudeness shown to a member of the public at the AHAVA demonstration when She questioned why EDL/JD members were continuing to enter our pen area after the organisers & Police had asked EDL/JD to demonstate in a seperate pen . I agree with You that criticism of the EDL/JD should not involve personal insults – shall we agree that both sides in this debate have used harsh language against each other – lets try to refrain from continuing to insult each other .

      Some EDL ers are football hooligans and you know it . Searchlight has recently reported on the sectarian in-fighting amongst different factions of the EDL – with serious violence directed at each other – The Jewish Community does not want to be connected with an organisation like that .

      The Jewish Community organises it’s own defence with The CST in cooperation with The Police & Security Services . If the time comes when we need to use more robust tactics to defend ourselves then we will review those methods in our own Community . I just don’t trust the EDL & we should maintain complete independence for our defence organisations .

      You don’t know me so don’t say that I would run from physical confrontations – if I needed to I would try to do whatever I could to defend my Community .

      I tried to read the mission statement – I’m not a member so I couldn’t read it .

      So The Union Of Jewish Students are Kapos as well !!! please try to stop insulting Jewish organisations that disagree with you .

      It is your links with the EDL that enabled the Boycotters to smear the AHAVA counter-demonstration & The ZF . I realise that You don’t see that smearing as Your responsibility but We believe that Your organisations presense at AHAVA made it more difficult for us to get our message against the Boycott across to the public .

      Good for you that You paid for leaflets – but all of us have contributed financially to the campaign .

  50. Roberta I don’t know a lot about the EDL, only that they have a bad reputation. That’s why pro-Israel groups don’t want to be associated with them. It’s hard enough being an active, vocal supporter of Israel – being called a Nazi, fascist, baby-killer, etc – without the EDL’s bad reputation being applied to us as well. There’s nothing extremist about supporting Israel, but we are called that anyway, and being associated with the EDL who are also called extremist makes it even worse.
    Pro-Israel and pro-Jewish groups here have a difficult task in supporting Israel and protecting it’s supporters without being alienated by the whole country as supporters of a “terrorist state”.
    Again, I don’t know much about the EDL, but if you care so much about Israel, and the majority of pro-Israel groups will have nothing to do with the EDL, why don’t you just leave the EDL? Israel needs it’s supporters, but campaigning against Islam or whatever the EDL does doesn’t help Israel.

    • Zahava

      I am getting told that the EDL has members with well developed muscles who will protect Roberta if she should be threatened.

      Can you provide the same kind of elder-brother-won’t-let-“it”-happen feeling?

  51. Ian,

    Continuing from where I stopped:

    9. You have provided BIASED and WRONG information. Now what I should really do is establish if you did this deliberately or due to your own ignorance about our group. And since there is no excuse for such ignorance anymore, I am tempted to believe that you deliberately tried to smear our name.
    HNH and Searchlight are APPEASERS. They ARE what I accuse them of. I have plenty of evidence. Our EDL LGBT division has gathered a decent amount of evidence against your organisations, you know? The fact that while we do not make our business to pick fights with everyone, we do make our business to collect a lot of intelligence about such vile groups for future reference.
    I quote you:

    [ HNH and Searchlight – They have spent decades protecting The Jewish Community from
    Anti-Semitic Violence .]

    Enlighten me on this. Elaborate please. Tell me exactly what and how you have spent “decades” PROTECTING the Jewish community from Anti-Semitic violence. Show me PROOF for your claims too. I will give credit when and if credit is due.

    10. I quote you again:

    [I wonder how Your comments would stand up to the sort of detailed Intelligence that Searchlight , CST , The Police & M.I.5 have about the EDL]

    Go ahead Ian, provide me with the full “detailed” intelligence that you CLAIM to have on the EDL, and please also do us the courtesy to include the same “detailed” intelligence from the CST, Police and MI5. I guess you forgot to read the Morning star: “EDL NOT FAR RIGHT”. This is the intelligence the police has on us, and as they said, they came to this conclusion by INTELLIGENCE gathered on us. Would I be wrong to think they also included intelligence from the MI5? Perhaps even the Mossad? ;)

    I think you are upset because these organisations have rejected Searchlight’s intelligence on us. I wonder why…

    I want proof, not the usual diatribe garbage of demonization against the EDL.

    [just for the record the last person Who threatened Me with Libel was an Anti-Zionist Who objected to My Support for Israel on a local Newspaper site .]

    I have not threatened you. I do not make threats. I warn. I already informed you of libellous comments about our group. We will not tolerate being called things we are not, such as “far-right, nazis, skinheads, racists, anti-Semitic, extremists, .. etc” Such comments without proof are libellous. I am sure you are capable to understand this.

    11. [I am not remotely interested in being important or sounding important I just do what I do because it is My responsibility to Support Israel & The Jewish People ]

    Then do your job properly and stop writing lies while appeasing Islamo-fascist Jew hating gay hating scum. You have deliberately set out to attack the biggest group in the UK who actively supports and campaigns for Israel.

    [12 : Roberta You are right that Richard & Jonathan have guts – so do I -and so do You . This argument is not about Your qualities as a person , as I have said before I know that You care deeply about Israel & You are prepared to stand up for what You believe in – this argument is about whether or not The Jewish Community should lend it’s Support to an Organisation like the EDL an organisation that it cannot control & may eventually prove to be a danger to The Jewish Community & other Ethnic Minority Communities . I urge You to think carefully about what You are doing .]

    12. Ian, are you saying that the Jewish community ONLY “lends” (Note that you did not even say GIVE) their support to organisations they can CONTROL? WTF????
    Let me tell you something, we do not NEED the Jewish community’s support to be honest, and we do not care if all of them hate us. This will not cause any impact on our work. We exist without your support and we will continue to exist and act as we want, without your support if needed be. This is not our loss but the Jewish community’s loss.
    We will NEVER be a danger to the Jewish community because I am Jewish and I will make sure this never happens. Besides I have the means to ensure it never happens within the EDL. A few weeks ago during a demo in Blackburn (did you see the video?) Tommy Robinson (EDL Leader) kicked out from inside our group a small group of anti-Semitic scumbags and embarrassed them in public. These people were kicked out of the EDL and have opened their own tiny fringe group. We cannot control everyone who joins us, not more than you can control anyone who joins any Jewish group, and as you said, you guys have already tried to infiltrate our organisation and I bet that most have been exposed and kicked out. We do not like communists. We do not like fascists. Anyone with such idiotic ideas will be exposed and kicked out of our group. We are no danger to any minority ethnic group. We have a Pakistani Christian division which is supported by the British Pakistani Christian organisation. We went to their demos to support them and increase their numbers. We have a Sikh division. We have a LGBT division. I urge you to investigate us properly instead of claiming to have intelligence on us, which are clearly a bunch of lies.

    Nor HNH or Searchlight have EVER spoken in support of the Pakistani Christians, Coptic Christians from Egypt, Zoroastrians from Iran, Christians from Sudan, and every other single minority group that are still being persecuted under the filthy Islamic shariah law. WHY NOT? Why have you totally ignored this?

    How about the Islamic abuse of children and women in Islamic countries, such as Yemen or Afghanistan? Where are your articles about these? Where is your article about the murder of homosexuals in Iran, Saudi Arabia and Uganda?

    Do you want to see what the EDL has written about all these things? Shall we compare notes? ;)
    Shall we put it to the people to judge WHO is actually doing some work here? Do you ever look at our website and several blogs? I bet not.

    Prove you have guts Ian. Prove it by standing with us to support Israel and Jews, and to address the issue of Islam. Or are you SCARED of what “the others” will say about you? Prove to me that your love for Israel is bigger than your fear of their shallow attacks.

    13. There are hundreds of EDL videos in youtube, our blogs, etc. These are not all done by the Jewish Division, and so that you know the Jewish Division IS the EDL too. We are all one group, Ian.
    The main group before the Jdiv might have had problems in the past, but who hasn’t? WHO amongst us are perfect?

    What amuses me is to see a communist / Fascist accusing the EDL of all sorts. It is quite hypocritical, don’t you think? How can a fascist nazi accuse us of racism when we have proven time and time again that we are not?
    What will it take for you lot to grasp this?

    We are NOT a political organisation and we don’t want to be either. We are a human rights pressure group, and this is what we focus on. We are against Shariah law and Islamisation because these two things are fully in breach of Human Rights.

    I would be happy if you took some time to reflect on the things I said. While I sound quite blunt in my words, I do not hate you. I just think you are misguided and misinformed, and because of this you should stop defaming the EDL until you can either come up with evidence for your claims.
    I know that it is hard to make communists see sense but if you want to talk to me, I will gladly meet you.

    You cannot cover the sun with a sieve. Jews are joining the EDL, we have quite a decent size group of Jews from several cities in the UK. Our Jewish support is not minimal and we also have the support from key players in America, The Netherlands, etc. We just don’t make a big deal out of it. We are humble, you see?
    You said our video show some images of people who are not EDL supporters, but can you prove they are not? Regardless of that, your magazine and photos on the ZF website also shows people who are NOT Jewish or Zionist supporters, such as the infamous ARAB DIPLOMATS you lot keep inviting to your gala dinners. Or are you assuring me that these Arab Muslims from hostile Islamic countries all love Israel and are Zionist?

    Get my point? People in glass houses should not throw stones.
    Shalom ve tachshov al col ma she amarti.

    Roberta
    EDL Jdiv

    • Roberta ,

      I provided links to Searchlight & Hope Not Hate , I also read Searchlight every month . Searchlight has documented connections to other extremists & football violence . I could equally ask You to to provide Your claimed intelligence against Searchlight & HNH – are you really saying that a secret EDL group has managed to infiltrate a secret Anti-fascist group ?

      Like all intelligence groups much of what Searchlight has done is secret & we are never going to know what it has achieved ( in the same way that most of what Mossad does is never revealed ) . Sorry but if If I know anything secret then I certainly won’t be sharing that information with you !

      Searchlight runs informants within Far-Right hate groups . For an account of the type of work that Searchlight carries out then readers might want to read
      ” The Other Face Of Terror – Inside Europe’s Neo-Nazi Network ” by Ray Hill with Andrew Bell .
      Ray Hill worked as a Searchlight spy inside some of the most fanatical and dangerous Fascist organisations in Europe . Carrying concealed tape recorders and watched by hidden cameras , Ray Hill met and talked with leading extremists in order to gather hard evidence of their activities – and was responsible for preventing a major terrorist attack in London aimed at starting a ” race war ” in Notting Hill ” . This work & stories like it are what Searchlight have been doing for decades ( & this undercover activity has prevented many attacks on Synagogues from Fascist groups for Whom Anti-semitism was their core -ideology )

      Ask The Police , CST , M.I.5 for their secret intel – I don’t have it because I’m not in any of those organisations . But all those organisations would have taken information from Searchlight .

      I never said that You or any other member of the EDL/JD were any of those things – but some EDL members come into those categories . You however have written that I appease Islamo-Fascist Gay Jew Hating Gay Hating Scum . Quite how as a ZF National Council member , Pro-Israel activist ,who demonstrates against Anti-Israel Boycotters on the streets ,I am supposed to do this I fail to see – but of course You are just insulting Me yet again !

      Searchlight/HNH are opposed to all those human rights abuses that You catalogue – Searchlight/HNH concentrated on campaigning against the Far-Right because that is what the organisations exist to do . I will make an effort to try & read some of your websites .

      I do stand up & campaign for Israel on the streets & in The Trade Unions & Labour party – I just don’t do it with Your organisation because I don’t trust Your organisation . On the issue of Sharia/Fundamentalist Islam I am a supporter of Melanie Phillips & her work against Islamic extremism – again I trust that kind of responsible poltical & social campaigning – I don’t trust Your Organisation .

      I don’t call myself a Communist , I’m not a Fascist Nazi – insults again !

      Jonathan isn’t one of Your members , I’m not one of Your members , I doubt that a lot of the people You have put on your videos are Your members .

      Anyway it’s gone 1 oclock in the morning again for the 2nd night of writing these posts – I’ve got a job to go to tomorrow .

      Shalom ,

      Ian .

      • Daniel Marks

        Hi Comrade Ian,

        You may be a nice guy, but you write very long comments, followed by even longer ones in which you explain what you didn’t mean to say in the previous ones.

        I know that Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Mao and all those guys used to make five hour speeches too, but please bear in mind that they had the KGB there, to escort anyone who fell asleep to a gulag. Since you don’t have that luxury, you may want to make your points in a shorter, snappier, more fun to read manner.

        Ask yourself, “What is my main point?” “What do I really want my readers to hear?” Sum that up in five to ten sentences and then just bash it out on the old keyboard!

        All the best,

        Daniel

        MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

      • “Searchlight has documented connections to other extremists & football violence”

        Searchlight is a disgrace. It is too ignorant / stupid / cowardly / bigoted to document Islamic extremism. It picks on easy targets like the EDL.

      • Daniel Marks

        Leah,

        We are not an “easy target” and if that is another attempt to imply that Brother Goldman of our Givat Ze’ev branch has a larger than average derrière, though probably accurate, it was wholly uncalled for!

        Sincerely

        D. Marks

        DVC

        MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

      • Ian

        I don’t trust Your Organisation .

        OK, but you trust Fatah Unionists and never mind what they say about Israel? and you tell me that they are the go-to guys i.e. the to be trusted guys.

        An organisation which publicly mouthes off on Israel is to be trusted, because what it says needs to be disregarded or “never-minded” (which IMHO is part of the infantilize them attitude and thus deeply and objectionably racist)

        Another organisation which publicly stands up for Israel is not to be trusted, because what any of its members says or may have said off the record needs to be taken dead serious.

        Do you have undercover agents in the Fatah Union to check up on the difference between their public and their off-the-record stuff?

        I hope you grant me the right to find you confusing and contradictory and I sincerely hope you’ll cure me of that feeling.

        GGA (Gentile German Affiliate)
        MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ-UIUKEBJDEDL*)

        *) Correct order of chapters still under discussion.

  52. Michael Goldman

    Hi Roberta,
    Unlike Maaleh Adumim, the Givat Ze’ev branch of the EDL is very much in its first stages.
    We are as a rule wholly against any form of racism but do indulge every once in a while in group racism when the wives are otherwise occupied.
    Please keep this to yourself as we could be in a lot of hot water if we were found out, as I’m sure you can well imagine.
    We are a lively bunch but lack the organization of the Ma’aleh Adumim branch which is certainly one of the more active in the central division of Israel.
    We are however growing in leaps and bounds.
    We hope to have the first ever summer camp of the
    ” Unofficial Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League” in August and would be honoured to have you come along as a gueat speaker if you are free.
    We tried to organize a mass telephone bashing operation which was very badly attended due I am sure to the popularity of mobile phones.
    Hope to see more of your postings.

  53. Daniel Marks,

    Hello there! Your post put a smile on my face!
    I am sorry you did not hear from our colleague Jack. I believe that at that time we had issues with our Website and perhaps not all messages were received. The Jewish Division was opened in May 2010 but I am touched to see that someone else also thought of creating one in the EDL.
    I must confess I never heard of the unofficial Jewish Division until now. Why didn’t you guys contact us?
    Mark, I will be glad to discuss things with you and perhaps you may accept my proposition to join us as one. Let your Jdiv “hooligans” join with our Jdiv”hooligans” and we can make our forces stronger. I do need a co-leader as well. There is much to do and I have been overworked these days.
    Email me so that we can discuss: edljdiv@live.co.uk
    Would very much like to meet you – Sushi sounds good ;)

    Regards
    Roberta EDL Jdiv

  54. Hi Zahava,

    We only have a bad reputation because the media is afraid of our popularity, so they do everything to damage us. I don’t care that much about what they say about us, or the personal attacks I get from the media, or certain Kapos. I am above this crap. But it pains me to see our community being lied to by these vermin. However if these people truly wanted to know the truth they could check it for themselves instead of listening to the bullshit from Guardian, JC, Searchlight, HNH, UAF, etc. As I said, there is no excuse for such ignorance in this century.

    I understand your fears but what you guys are doing is stopping from giving Israel your support (alongside us) just because you are scared others will call you Nazi or baby killers. And who does that? The MUSLIMS!!! The MEDIA, and idiotic groups like those I mentioned above. Come on! WHO CARES about what they say? Who cares if they call us nazis or baby killers? We know we are not! So why listen to their crap and let it get to you? Fight fire with fire. If they accuse you, you say: PROVE IT. That’s it.

    Besides, two can play that game. Remember: “People can only hurt you if you let them”.

    [Pro-Israel and pro-Jewish groups here have a difficult task in supporting Israel and protecting it’s supporters without being alienated by the whole country as supporters of a “terrorist state”.]

    I know. So address their lies. Together we can prove Israel is not a terrorist State. And the task is only “difficult” to those who are afraid to call their enemy by their name. Be honest with yourselves, so that you can also be honest with all.
    Don’t cry when they call Israel a terrorist state, prove them wrong. Shout back.

    [Again, I don’t know much about the EDL, but if you care so much about Israel, and the majority of pro-Israel groups will have nothing to do with the EDL, why don’t you just leave the EDL? Israel needs it’s supporters, but campaigning against Islam or whatever the EDL does doesn’t help Israel.]

    I will not leave the EDL because there isn’t a single Jewish group that deals with the real threat to Israel, which is ISLAM. Campaigning against Islam is the ONLY THING that helps Israel. The Palestinian x Israeli issue is all about Islam. The violence towards Jews and Israel is because of ISLAM.
    Why should I leave the EDL when we are obviously targetting the correct enemy not only of Israel but the rest of the world?
    Please read some History of Islam. Read how they were the ones responsible for the biggest and main Black Slave Trade the world has ever seen and how MILLIONS died in the hands of the Arabs. Read how Mauritania is still a slave country. Read how Islam has managed to destroy all the greatest civilizations with sheer brutality and how the “civilized” people thought they could DIALOGUE with them.

    No. I will not make the same mistakes our ancestors made. You said campaigning against Islam does not help Israel? Mind telling me what does?

    Roberta

  55. Hi Michael!

    You made me laugh! You have a Givat Ze’ev branch as well? Cool!
    I would be honoured to speak at your gathering.
    Send me an email so that we can organize ourselves. I have no problem having you guys all together under the EDL Jewish Division, and having your own branches as you wish. It will really be a G-d sent as as I said I am overworked and we have so much work to do. We all work very hard, and it will be great to have more people on board to work with us and relieve the pressure.
    I would be delighted to meet you guys. Organization and efficiency is a must for our work and I am sure that you guys will be a very welcome addition to our ranks.

    Kind regards
    Roberta
    EDL Jdiv
    edljdiv@live.co.uk

  56. Daniel Marks

    Ian,

    On behalf of the recently recognized MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ (Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Chapter of the Official Israeli UK expatriate Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League) we take exception to your characterizing our glorious league in unflattering language and no less to your shrugging your shoulders – a shrug you have not denied – while conversing with our Division Leader Roberta.

    However, in the spirit of Jewish brotherhood and reason we invite you to visit our Israeli branches, meet our members and learn about our activities. I cannot speak for the more newly established branches such as that of Givat Ze’ev Branch, but I believe in Maale Adumim you will find open minds, kind hearts and receptive ears. It seems like only a decade ago when the mere mention of the British immigrant problem would have you branded as a racist or worse. In the last election leaders of all parties spoke candidly of the issue and only a fool or a blind man (or a blind fool) would imagine that this predicament will just disappear.

    While we do not claim to have all the answers, or even always remember all the questions, we do believe that as ex-patriots who care passionately about the future of Britannia our voices too should be heard.

    Kind regards,

    Daniel Marks

    Deputy Vice Chairman, Maale Adumim Area Office of the Religious Chapter of the Official Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League

  57. MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ – :) It’s such a mouthfull
    haha!!

    Roberta

  58. Roberta

    is it true what James said, that you served in the IDF ?

    – tell the story please!!! what came of it?

    – the IDF, the fact that women could serve, made my teenage heart rejoice way back in the 50s – it was such good news, so full of hope, a real breath of fresh air …

  59. Silke,

    Yes it is true. I joined the IDF and when I left Israel and came to England I joined the British army and stayed for 4 years. What came of it? Many many good things, and loads of experience in how to deal with the Islamo-fascist scum. :)

  60. Michael Goldman

    Daniel,
    Here in Givat Ze’ev we are getting a bit fed up of you flaunting your letters like a cheap whore.
    Do you hear me singing the praises of the GZAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ ?
    No, because here in Givat Ze’ev we believe in action !
    Yes, while you in Ma’aleh Adumim sit around on your lazy behinds happy to bask in the glory of your letters and your once prodigious past, we in Givat Ze’ev are working hard for the cause.
    Only last week after a wine and cheese evening we graffitied the mayor’s car and pasted up 50 picures of Julie Andrews .
    Roberta
    We did you proud!

  61. Daniel Marks

    I have no intention of being drawn into any kind of verbal confrontation or mud-slinging match with Brother Goldman of the GZAORCOIUKEBJDEDL. However, in the interests of clarification I would make several points.

    1. In seems inappropriate and not in the true spirit of our EDL to refer to our “lazy behinds”.

    2. The Maale Adumim Area Office has been as active as any EDL branch in the Judea and Samaria district.

    3. In terms of our activities, naturally much must remain clandestine, but our overt goings-on include a daily shiur (lesson) in Talmud Bava Kama (except for Tuesdays and Fridays, a twice weekly shiur on Chulin and two shabbat shiurim in Sanhedrin and Pesachim. All these are in line with the instructions of EDL Head Office who have taught us, “If you want to be a good English Jew, first be a good Jew.” (Sister Roberta)

    4. This week on Thursday evening we are holding our annual general meeting, numbers are expected to be significantly greater than last year. Brother Goldman has been invited.

    5. Regarding the Giva’at Zeev Branch:

    Much has been made about their shabbat minyan (quorum for purposes of prayer), an achievement that we have as yet been unable to match.

    I have, however, heard rumors that this is not really a legitimate EDL synagogue, but they have just formed an ad hoc coalition with local Habad activists, moved into their synagogue, renamed it EDL and told the congregants that the initials stand for “Everyone Davens Loveably”. Such an act of trickery and deceit, again, is not in the spirit of the EDL that I know.

    There are other rumors that Goldman has registered the Giva’at Zeev Branch as a charity to avoid paying income tax and is now skimming off the top to finance his wife’s extravagant lifestyle, which includes frequent so called “fact finding missions” to the Dead Sea. The same sources say that Goldman is financing his son-in-law’s Hitler had Chicken Feet (HHCF) research institute.

    If these reports are accurate it is for Goldman to explain how such carryings on are forwarding the cause of the EDL and in line with our ideology, if not, let him say it loudly and clearly.

    Sincerely,

    D. Marks

    DVC

    MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  62. “Fascism is the complete destruction of political democracy undertaken by a mass movement of the middle-class involving the supression of The Trade Unions”

    You are as ignorant about Fascism as you are about Communism. Fascism has never been a ‘mass movement of the middle-class’. And Communism is also the complete destruction of political democracy involving the supression of the trade unions.

    As to the ludicrous claim about protecting Jews from antisemitism for decades, do stop taking those hallucinogens.

  63. Daniel Marks

    “Roberta I don’t know a lot about the EDL, only that they have a bad reputation.” – Zehava

    Hi Zehava,

    I suspect that I know to what you are referring when you talk of our “bad reputation”. If you are intending the resurrect certain charges made against Brother Goldman of our Givat Ze’ev branch, I would only remind you that the incident was many years ago, nothing was ever proven in court and most importantly the “fruit salad” mysteriously went missing and was never found.

    I hope this clarification will finally put the matter to rest and that the good name of the Official Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League will rightfully remain untarnished.

    Sincerely

    D. Marks

    DVC
    MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  64. Sharon Klaff

    Much is written about the Hamas Charter, but little about the PLO Charter, which is still today the foundation of the PA. http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm
    This link is the PLO official translation and so the English words chosen are sometimes suspect – see comment on use of the word Zionist instead of Jew.
    …….Article 22: Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland……..
    Note in article 22 the reference to looking for the support of “progressive”…forces. In this quest the PLO has been more than successful. Negotiators and activists must always realise when a battle is lost. The “progressives” have long thrown in their lot with the PLO/PA and approve the latest union with Hamas. The PLO/PA has achieved recognition as the “good cop” in this union through very positive propaganda learned at the feet of Goebbels, and the “progressives” Ian wishes to work with accept that distortion of reality to the extent that even successive Israeli Prime Ministers see them as partners for peace.
    That is why people like us are taking to activism. We are not all political animals who love the fray and we seek no personal glory. Most of us do not earn our livings out of activities that we fund ourselves. We are neither left nor right, but simply scared witless about the kind of world we are leaving our grandchildren. Ideally we would like simply to get on with our lives and enjoy the fruits of our labour, but we find that impossible as “never again” is happening again, and again the world, influenced by the “progressives” in the media and political entities like Trade Unions are looking through the cesspit that is bubbling at surface level, the steam clouding their vision.
    No we do not need to work with mainstream anybodies as they too are deluded about the aims of “progressives”, clouded by diplomatic discourse that has little to do with getting facts out to the general population so we can preserve our heritage, our Judeo-Christian ethic that gives us in the West the kind of civilisation we cherish.

    • Please do not confuse poor Ian about the Arabs, which in his silly world are never the threat – the threat comes from the EDL only, because he has swallowed the BBC’s lies.

      • Dear Leah ,
        In fact I never said that Arabs are never the threat – You made that idea up from Your own imagination .

  65. Ian,

    I have over 20 years of experience in the counter-Jihad world. Your attempts to deny that you and your organisation are communist/fascist are both laughable and pointless. We have had”intelligence” on your group for ages now. Or do you still think the EDL is all about “football hooligans and skinheads”? Communism and Fascism have NO PLACE in the Jewish community.
    I want you to get a few things into your head:

    1. You do not speak for all the Jewish community
    2. You are yet to provide full evidence for your absurd claims about the EDL
    3. You have less support than you care to realise. Just read all the comments on this thread and check it out for yourself.

    I quote you:

    [Are You admitting that You had a problem with racists that you have recently tried to address ? ok fair enough – lets see what your organisation now does in the future .]

    We didn’t try. We addressed it and kicked them out. We resolved the problem in one day. Now why do you question our organisation when it’s yours that does NOTHING for any of us?
    What is it that you and your organisation do apart form demonizing the EDL and slow drip feeding the Jewish community with your fascist and communist ideas, trying to brainwash them against us?
    Show me something concrete and positive that you have achieved.

    [Natan Sharansky said on sunday at the ” We Believe In Israel ” conference that Soviet Jewry was supported by the coalition of students & housewifes . I have just looked up Chaim Ben Pesach on Wikipedia – I encourage readers to do the same & make up their own minds about this man .]

    As I said, there is no excuse for ignorance at this day and age. Contact the man himself and ask him whatever you want. People should stop believing the lies that are spouted on the internet. After all, you also LIE about us the EDL. So you are not innocent of defamation either.

    [The Zionist Federation only holds an annual dinner – as far as I remember it’s speakers & guests are Israelis & Zionists – I don’t know what You are referring to about Muslims from hostile countries]

    I have photos to prove it. This is all you need to know. Our intelligence is working very near to all of you, be sure of it. “By way of deception, thou shall do war” ;)

    Ah so you were shocked by the comments on the EDL FB page on “Jews against the EDL”? Oh excellent news! I am so pleased that you were offended as that was truly the same intention as YOU HAD when YOU opened that page to deliberately offend us. An eye for an eye, Ian.
    We NEVER opened pages to attack anyone in the Jewish community but you felt that you should pick a fight with us and opened a page to deliberately get the whole Jewish community against us.

    I was SICKENED to see a “Jew” opening a page to attack other Jews. SHAME ON YOU! People that do things like that, are lacking on self-confidence. See, we don’t need to play dirty to expose you lot.

    I also object to the rudeness of your communist/fascist/deceiving organization Searchlight, when referring to all of our EDL members.
    Regarding the Ahava situation, a couple of EDL members complained to me about the language YOUR ZF colleague (I won’t name him/her) used against us.
    So stop attacking us, stop lying about us, and we won’t have issues with one another. Stop trying to get the whole Jewish community against us by using LIES to support your points. This is disgusting and evil, principally when we are actively campaigning for Israel and Jews. You only make an ass of yourself and it makes you lose credence. Not that you had any anyway.

    And the reason these insults are flying around is because we will not remain silent while you lot try to demonize us as well. What makes you think you, a communist/fascist Jew, is better than us? Get over yourself.

    Some EDL ers may be football hooligans (or were). So what? Some Jews are also football hooligans, and worse even..
    Are you saying that Jews don’t have sectarian differences and arguments against other Jews or even the “goyim”? You keep on talking about “The Jewish Community” but what “Jewish” community are you referring to? Ashkenazi? Sephardic? Chassidic? Karaite? Falasha? WHICH ONE?

    FYI, I have chassidic “friends” who are very racist against Black people. Oh and the Ashkenazim of the Middle East back in the 1930s we also very racist against the Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews. Will you attempt to deny this now?

    I tell you Ian, the Jewish community has very little friends, and it will have even less if people like you are not put on a leash pronto. Once again I and others remind you: YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR US. And at least here you definitely have little or no support at all.

    [The Jewish Community organises it’s own defence with The CST in cooperation with The Police & Security Services . ]

    Poor you then. We organise our own defence. We don’t need CST or the Police. Our police liaison is only to organise our demos and the logistics.
    What would you and the CST do if the Muslims attacked you? Run?
    None of you can fight, save from a very few number. But at least our “hooligans” can and will defend one another, and protect the women.

    You don’t have this “brotherhood” in your ranks.

    [If the time comes when we need to use more robust tactics to defend ourselves then we will review those methods in our own Community . I just don’t trust the EDL & we should maintain complete independence for our defence organisations .]

    Hahahah. yeah, you will learn Krav Maga right after someone stabs you or beats you to a pulp. Oh please! You make me laugh with your naivety. It is obvious you have never been in any Army or had a fight with anyone in your life. At least the EDL has REAL MEN. ;)

    [You don’t know me so don’t say that I would run from physical confrontations – if I needed to I would try to do whatever I could to defend my Community .]

    You ran away from my challenges, so I have no doubt you would run as fast as you could if anyone attempted physical confrontation with you, Ian. I know how to tell the difference between strong men and weak ones, between warriors and “scribes”. If you could not even defend yourself, how could you defend your community? Ah lemme guess, you would call the CST. Do they have a 999 service for emergencies too? LOL!!

    [I tried to read the mission statement – I’m not a member so I couldn’t read it .]

    Ok. I will copy and paste it for you in my next post.

    [So The Union Of Jewish Students are Kapos as well !!! please try to stop insulting Jewish organisations that disagree with you .]

    Yes they are kapos if they attack us, and if they claim to be supporting Israel, while opening their legs to Islamo-fascist scum, which is precisely what they are doing. It has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not. It’s about their actions towards Israel and other Jews.

    [It is your links with the EDL that enabled the Boycotters to smear the AHAVA ]

    Absolute BULLSHIT and you know it. It was the MANAGER of the Ahava who did not have balls to go to court against the protesters. These pro-Palestinian asses were protesting there a very long time even before we came along. STOP TRYING TO BLAME US, Ian!! How low will you get??
    They have been smearing the Ahava even before the EDL was created. You are such a bigoted liar! Now you have doubtlessly proven to me that you have no honour at all, and that you are prepared to LIE to save face from your own failures. Unbelievable!!

    [I realise that You don’t see that smearing as Your responsibility but We believe that Your organisations presense at AHAVA made it more difficult for us to get our message against the Boycott across to the public .]

    That’s because it is NOT our responsibility ye foolish creature! You want someone to blame for your failures but we will not be your scapegoat. You NEVER got the message across anyway.

    I would love to see if Jonathan Hoffmann agrees with your bullshit of blaming us. Jeez now you are totally out of order!!

    • Roberta ,

      Chaim Ben Pesach – a man that Wikipedia reports as somebody convicted for firebomb & pipebomb attacks and who is Homophobic ( what happened to your support for Gay Rights ? ) – is this the sort of tactics that you propose The Jewish Community adopt ?

      It wasn’t just me that had deep concerns about your organisations presense at AHAVA . All the Jewish demonstrators left our pen area when your Croydon Division turned up & we agreed that we would do the same if it happened again . It wasn’t me who liased with the Police & requested that you be given a sperate pen to demonstrate in – mayby you remember who told you how much embarrasment you cause for him & our counter-demonstration at the BOD meetings .

      I didn’t run away from your challenges – I wasn’t at AHAVA to waste my time talking to you about what 99% of The Jewish Community already know – that The EDL is a threat to The Jewish Community relations with other sections of British society & is a negative & reactionary organisation . I was at AHAVA to talk to members of the public about why the Anti-Israel Boycott is wrong & prejudiced against Jews .

      The language that you use against UJS is completely disgusting – You should be ashamed of yourself that say such disgusting things about the young leadership of The Jewish Community .

      • Ian
        may I hope for an answer to my last question or is the subject closed for you?

      • Roberta Moore

        Ian

        [Chaim Ben Pesach – a man that Wikipedia reports as somebody convicted for firebomb & pipebomb attacks and who is Homophobic ( what happened to your support for Gay Rights ? ) – is this the sort of tactics that you propose The Jewish Community adopt ?]

        You COMMUNISTS love twisting people’s words and intentions, don’t you?
        Chaim may be homophobic, that is HIS CHOICE. His personal issues with Homosexuality means NOTHING to us, because we the EDL are all for GAY RIGHTS.Chaim might not like Gays, but at least he does not call for their MURDER, like your Muslim friends do.

        And don’t you forget silly man, that a lot of the Jewish community are also homophobic, that includes the Torah. So what is your point exactly??

        Hypocritical as it is, and although the Torah is against homosexuality, there are plenty of HOMOSEXUAL ORTHODOX JEWS. Deny this and I will rub the evidence on your face.

        Now what else will you try to use to discredit Chaim while ignoring that this “homophobic” man saved over 1.5 million Jews from Russia? WHO have YOU saved? No one.

        [It wasn’t just me that had deep concerns about your organisations presense at AHAVA . All the Jewish demonstrators left our pen area when your Croydon Division turned up & we agreed that we would do the same if it happened again .]

        More LIES. You say ALL left the pen, but you know you are talking shit. Shall I provide video evidence that you are lying? Interesting to note is that at least 5 people from YOUR pen have given me their names and phone numbers for contact. THEY approached me despite your disapproval. It seems you have no control over anyone’s opinions actually.

        [It wasn’t me who liased with the Police & requested that you be given a sperate pen to demonstrate in – mayby you remember who told you how much embarrasment you cause for him & our counter-demonstration at the BOD meetings]

        That’s right. It was Jonathan. But not because WE cause him any embarrassment (as the embarrassment would have been caused by the ZF to the EDL in fact) but because he was afraid the leftist communist scum you hang out with, would take photos of him and twist the fact to say he was part of the EDL, like they did before.

        That is only because Jonathan CARES about what those kapos say about him, while I do not give a damn. And NOT because he doesn’t support us or our stance on Israel. Get it?

        [I didn’t run away from your challenges – I wasn’t at AHAVA to waste my time talking to you about what 99% of The Jewish Community already know – that The EDL is a threat to The Jewish Community relations with other sections of British society & is a negative & reactionary organisation . I was at AHAVA to talk to members of the public about why the Anti-Israel Boycott is wrong & prejudiced against Jews .]

        99% of the Jewish community now is it? Hahahha
        When I went to the demo on Sunday, loads of these 99% Jews did not know we had a Jewish Division in the EDL, because Kikes like you and the JC lie to them, saying it is a conspiracy, that there are no Jews in the EDL. You do this to stop people from supporting us, but we will ensure all these lies are trashed and exposed, and also the perpetrators. Just you watch. I didn’t want to do that, but I see you have no qualms about lying to your fellow Jews.

        Furthermore, more taqqiya from you. How can you claim to be at Ahava to fight against boycotting Israel when the organisations you support proudly, ALL CALL FOR BOYCOTT OF ISRAEL? You are not being honest with yourself, nor with your friends. Shame on you!!

        [The language that you use against UJS is completely disgusting – You should be ashamed of yourself that say such disgusting things about the young leadership of The Jewish Community .]

        The language I use is fitting for these communist scumbags. I have nothing to be ashamed of when I insult fascist scum. And for your information, there is absolutely NO LEADERSHIP in the UJS. Most are appeasers and kapos. All of them call for the two solution State, and all of them are stupid enough to believe you can still have dialogues with the terrorist vermin of Fatah and Hamas.

        Who are these low lives leading exactly? Not me for sure.

        Is this what you want for the whole Jewish community? You want us all to follow the ways of appeasement and open our legs to be raped by the terrorist scum?

        SHAME ON YOU!!! You are the one who should be ashamed of the two faced work you are doing, of the contradictory information you are attempting to pass, much like the UNHOLY Quran, you lie, lie and lie.

        At least Chaim ben Pesach does not lie, and says what he thinks. He does not try to hide his intentions like you lot.

        This conversation made me now even more determined to expose your actions to the whole Jewish community.

        Don’t worry I will send you a copy of the article for your perusal. Let’s see how you feel when you are the one on the receiving end. Only this time it will be all true, while you only have your lies as back up for your biased and bigoted opinions of us.

        I would die for Israel, while you betray her and us all.

      • Roberta Moore ,

        Now You are using the Anti-Semitic word Kikes to insult Me ( and the Jewish Chronicle – the leading Jewish newspaper of The Jewish Community )

        You are becoming increasingly abusive & lying – none of the organisations that I support would ever be in favour of a Boycott of Israel ( The TUC has passed motions in support of a Boycott of Israeli goods from outside the 1967 borders – I am completely opposed to that & have actively campaigned against all & any Boycotts in my work with Trade Union Friends Of Israel )

        Stop threatening Me & I advise You to refrain from making libellous statements such as that I am in favour of Boycotts of Israel . I will be reporting Your comments to The CST , UJS , The JC , The ZF , The BOD & all the other Community Organisations that You are abusing – if You keep on making threats & unfounded allegations then I may also report You to The Police .

        I do not wish to have any further communications with You .

  66. “If you could not even defend yourself, how could you defend your community? Ah lemme guess, you would call the CST. ”

    Who do we call? Ghost-busters! La la la, la la la …
    (That would be very appropriate, given Ian’s hallucinations. Maybe he dreams about that monster in the fridge.)

  67. Daniel Marks

    “I tell you Ian, the Jewish community has very little friends,” – Roberta.

    By way of clarification, our leader Roberta had intended to say, “… the Jewish community has very FEW friends,” thus making reference to their number, not their stature.

    The EDL has never discriminated against individuals on the basis of their size and among are members are tall, short, big, little, fat and thin. We apologize for any misunderstanding that make have resulted from this inadvertent slip of the pen.

    Best wishes,

    Daniel Marks

    DVC
    MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  68. Leah you are sooooo right! Hear hear!!
    I am so happy most people here are on the same wavelength as me!

    Apologies for the misuse of bold letters (didn’t know I could do them. It seems I messed it up a bit), and apologies for using the word “little” instead of “few”. I am a foreigner after all :P

  69. Ian,

    Please save me the bother. I do not read Searchlight or HNH and never will. It is so sickening that it makes my stomach churn. I much prefer to spend my time watching Spartacus or reading about the life of Genghis Khan. At least I learn something from these two.

    I seriously find it very amusing your insistence in claiming to have “intelligence” on us and passing this “intelligence” to the Police or MI5. Do you have any idea how pathetic that sounds?
    You may do as many essays on football violence as you wish, but you cannot link this to every single member of the thousands of EDL and/or their supporters. So any “intelligence” you claim to have is definitely bullshit or you are bluffing. I personally believe in the latter.

    [are you really saying that a secret EDL group has managed to infiltrate a secret Anti-fascist group ?]

    I did not say that. But do you think I would tell you if we did? ;)
    You really have no idea about what we do or who we truly are, do you?
    So much for your “intelligence”. lol

    [Like all intelligence groups much of what Searchlight has done is secret & we are never going to know what it has achieved ( in the same way that most of what Mossad does is never revealed ) . Sorry but if If I know anything secret then I certainly won’t be sharing that information with you ! ]

    Don’t try to make your communist organisation sound important, Ian. Admit the truth. You have absolutely nothing on us. If you did you would not hesitate to use it against us ;)

    [Searchlight runs informants within Far-Right hate groups . For an account of the type of work that Searchlight carries out then readers might want to read]

    LOL. So since all you said above is bullshit, I believe that you are still fooling your readers with the typical commie lies. tsk tsk tsk… at least we are honest with our members and supporters.

    Once again I challenge you to dish every single “intelligence” or dirt that you have on us. If you hate us so much, which truly seems to be the case, go ahead and use all you got against us. Problem is, you got nothing and you know it. You got to be careful these days Ian.. you don’t know who is your friend and who isn’t. As I said, we know a fair bit about your group, and what Islamo-fascist ass lickers you lot truly are.

    Now, you mentioned Ray Hill’s actions regarding prevention of a terrorist attack. Can you provide evidence on this claim? If he filmed things secretly, where are the films? Where are his reports? What organisation did he infiltrate? Go ahead and show us. But I bet you have nothing to show for.

    [Ask The Police , CST , M.I.5 for their secret intel – I don’t have it because I’m not in any of those organisations . But all those organisations would have taken information from Searchlight .]

    No. I am asking YOU, because it was YOU who made a claim that these guys have intelligence on us, and intelligence which was given by YOU (Searchlight). So why should I ask them? Why don’t YOU show me the intelligence YOU have on us? (The same one you claim to have given to these organizations above).

    Ian, please.. quit the crap ok? The more you claim this kind of bullshit the more you lose credibility. I challenge you to prove we are Far right, fascists, nazis, etc..
    Will you take my challenge or keep avoiding the issue?

    Just because some EDL might be bad guys it does not mean we all are.
    And frankly I find worse guys in the Jewish community than in the EDL. At least the EDL got their heads screwed on and know what they want. The Jewish community in general are far more dangerous to Israel and Jews than any EDL could ever be. You are targetting the wrong enemy and you WILL get burned if you persist.

    I said it once and I will say it again: ZF, Searchlight, HNH, Peace Now (and several others) = bunch of Islamo-fascist, gay hating, women hating scumbag appeasers. (save some people).

    [Searchlight/HNH are opposed to all those human rights abuses that You catalogue – Searchlight/HNH concentrated on campaigning against the Far-Right because that is what the organisations exist to do . ]

    Prove it to me by writing about the ISLAMIC ABUSE of WOMEN in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen for once.
    Write about the ISLAMIC SLAVERY in Mauritania – a country which is still in chains.
    Write about ISLAMOFASCISM against homosexuals.
    Write about the Qu’ran asking for the MURDER of Jews and Christians.

    Why don’t you EVER write about these extremely blatant breaches of Human Rights? Do it. Prove me wrong. I want you to show me you oppose the real Human Rights abusers, because the EDL is not abusing any Human Rights, and we are certainly NOT far-right.

    Do your frigging job properly and tell the truth. Stop defaming us, stop attacking us. We are on your side FFS!! I have never seen a single article from HNH or Searchlight exposing the truth about Islam. Why is that? It’s because YOU ARE ALL ISLAMO-FASCIST APPEASERS. Will you deny it? Ok, so prove me wrong.

    [I do stand up & campaign for Israel on the streets & in The Trade Unions & Labour party – I just don’t do it with Your organisation because I don’t trust Your organisation .]

    I do not see the Labour party or the trade unions campaigning for Israel. Please tell me when was the last demo you attended on this.

    [On the issue of Sharia/Fundamentalist Islam I am a supporter of Melanie Phillips & her work against Islamic extremism – again I trust that kind of responsible poltical & social campaigning – I don’t trust Your Organisation .]

    And why don’t you trust us when we say everything Melanie says, when we actually deal with the problem? It’s easy to say you don’t trust our organisation, but you have provided no factual evidence for such.
    Guess what? I don’t trust yours either, and it seems from the comments here that most people don’t either. They seem to trust us more, but that’s because we are honest and you are not. We use truth, and you use lies.

    Not nice is it?

    [I don’t call myself a Communist , I’m not a Fascist Nazi – insults again !]
    But I call you a communist because this is precisely what you and your organisation are. I did not call you a fascist nazi, I called you a Fascist JEW. And that you indeed are.

    [Jonathan isn’t one of Your members , I’m not one of Your members , I doubt that a lot of the people You have put on your videos are Your members .]

    I don’t remember claiming you are.
    Likewise I don’t think that those ARAB DIPLOMATS which have been photographed with the people of the ZF are members of the ZF. Are they? ;)

    I agree with Leah here:

    [“Searchlight is a disgrace. It is too ignorant / stupid / cowardly / bigoted to document Islamic extremism. It picks on easy targets like the EDL.”]

    She is bang on the money.

    • No Roberta

      you are saying that also the peace now are hatings gays and that is not right. There have many gays in peace now and a lot of them are with us! They are good mens and also want to solver the Palestinain occupation problem.

      WE are standing behind them all.

      Good luck!

      Gamil

      • What’s the “Palestinain occupation problem”?

      • Gamil

        as to people with a same sex preference in peace now you mention only men. What about women?

        If they aren’t at Peace Now could you tell me where their favourite place of assembly is?

        Thank you!

        I hope your camels are doing fine.

        Silke
        GGA-MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ-UIUKEBJDEDL*)

        *) Correct order of chapters still under discussion.

      • Roberta Moore

        I missed replying to Gamil’s point on the homosexuals he has in Peace Now.

        So Gamil, as a Muslim, do you accept Homosexuality is part of Allah’s creation? Are you aware that there are homosexual animals in nature?
        Do you admit homosexuality is a NATURAL thing, rather than an abomination as you Muzzars like to claim?
        Did you know Muhammad was BISEXUAL???? His lover Zahid is mentioned all over the Hadiths.

    • Roberta ,

      You admit You never read Searchlight – therefore You have never been prepared to look at our evidence .

      Ray Hill’s infiltration of the Far-Right ( handled by Gerry Gable of Searchlight ) is a matter of historical record – do some research , read the book – look at the evidence . Can You use a search engine ? Wikipedia will tell You that Ray Hill foiled a gun-running operation of The British Democratic Party in 1981 & prevented a bombing of the Notting Hill carnival by The National Socialist Action Party . Ray Hill’s work was the subject of a World In Action documentary on tv .

      Amongst other support for Israel in The Trade Union Movement I have helped man the Trade Union Friends Of Israel stall at The TUC Congress for the last 6 years .

  70. Hullo Leah (very beautifull name!)

    Ah the zionistic palestine stealing and making a horribul occupation on our lands. May be you were not in Isreal but they have also builded unlegal settlements, angry road blocks and slow internet connections.

    All the Best

    Gamil

  71. Roberta Moore

    Gamil,

    I have personally met Mr. Gavri Bargil, who is the biggest KAPO Islamic ass licker I have ever met. He is not very bright either.
    I believe he is the Executive Director of Peace Now, or was.

    Although I did not specifically say or imply that “Peace Now” are gay-hating people.
    I think their DEGENERATED views go beyond gay hating. The people of Peace Now are KAPOS. Ignorant retards who have no idea of History or even common sense.

    I attended a pathetic lecture from Gavri Bargil at the LSE last year and I had to interrupt the retard quite a few times, because he not only LIED about the situation in Israel, he also tried to convince us that a 2 state solution was the “only viable” thing. What a load of crap!

    Peace now is pathetic. They think nothing of splitting OUR LAND in the middle and giving yet more ground to terrorists. And we all know what Islamofascist scum are like. The more you give the more they want.

    I do NOT think they are good men at all, and the Palestinian PROBLEM has to be sorted out by whoever created the damn problem in the first place, i.e. ARAB LEADERS.

    They already have a Palestinian State. It’s called JORDAN.

    Finally I want you to learn something and learn it well. The term PALESTINIAN was used ONLY for JEWS who lived in those areas. The Arabs would not accept to be called Palestinian UNTIL YASSER ARAFAT created the PLO with the sole purpose to oust the Jews from the area.

    The real problem facing those Arabs (FAKESTINIANS) today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in.

    This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights. In their frustration they feel that the only hope and choice they have is to try and steal someone else’s country! And guess what? You KAPO lot are helping them do just that.

    Talk about BETRAYING your fellow Jewish brothers and sisters, huh? Talk about opening your legs to be raped.

    You want to solve the “Palestinian” problem? Easy. Send them back to where they came from, or at best to JORDAN, where the population is 95% Palestinian.

    Not that hard, is it?

  72. Roberta Moore

    Gamil,

    What do you know of History?

    Let me teach you a bit:

    There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as “Palestine” and the very notion of a “Palestinian Arab nation” having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct “Palestinian” culture or language.

    Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964… three years BEFORE the Arabs of “Palestine” lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called dead leader of the “Palestinian” people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab “Palestinians” are a manufactured people…a people with no history and no authenticity… whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

    Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel’s First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem’s Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

    Very often one hears the revisionists and propagandists finding ancient historical links between the “Philistines” (“Invaders” in Hebrew) and the Arab “Palestinians.” There is no truth to this claim! The Philistines were one of a number of Sea Peoples who reached the eastern Mediterranean region approximately 1250-1100 B.C.E. They were actually an amalgamation of various ethnic groups, primarily of Aegean and south-east European origin [Greece, Crete and Western Turkey] and they died out over 2500 years ago!

    Those Philistines were not Arab… and neither was Goliath! The Arabs of “Palestine” are just that… Arabs! And these Arabs of “Palestine” have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!

    And if you don’t believe me, you are free to do your own research and PROVE ME WRONG, by using accredited Historical and Archaeological evidence.

    I will NOT support ANY group (Jewish or not) that not only perpetuate these lies to the world but also tries to sell our Land of Israel to the Islamo-fascist enemy.

    None of you of “Peace Now” have the basic level of knowledge in History of the Middle East, therefore you are all a bunch of ignorant people who remind me a lot of the Muslims who cannot speak Arabic, and depend on others to tell what the Qu’ran or the Hadiths say.

    Get an education in History before you try to claim Zionists have stolen “FAKESTINIANS” land. Get it?? Do your damn homework, as most of you are lazy brained and totally ignorant.

  73. Hullo Roberta!

    WE say “A woman can hides her love for 40 years, but her disgusting and angry even not one day” . You are very angry and say some things that are non-true.

    “I am a Palestinian and you must not say that I do not exist and My people also! may be you do not exist. If I will not exist you will not also. we can live or to die together and we wants to live.

    I will not talk about history only the future. We must solve all our problems, make real piece and you might return to Poland or London we will to see!

    Good luck with all nice fatty skinheads!

    Gamil

  74. Roberta Moore

    Sharon,

    You ROCK! :) Go girl!!! Tell them as it is!

  75. Roberta Moore

    Gamal,

    You are a “Gamal” aren’t you? No, sorry.. Gamalim are actually smarter than you.

    [WE say “A woman can hides her love for 40 years, but her disgusting and angry even not one day” . You are very angry and say some things that are non-true.]

    Yes I am very angry. Know why? Because of UNEDUCATED and IGNORANT people like you who preach LIES after LIES about Fakestine and claim Zionists stole the land from these degenerates, who by the way started coming to ISRAEL when the Jews started to create a mighty infrastructure that NONE OF THE ARABS had.

    [“I am a Palestinian and you must not say that I do not exist and My people also!]

    No, you are not. You are a FAKESTINIAN. Palestine as a country does not exist and never existed. If you were born within “Palestine” then you must be over 100 years old. If you were born after the land of Israel was RE-FORMED then you are either an ISRAELI, or a JORDANIAN. Simple as that. ” Your people” are NOT Palestinians either. They are what you are, a people who came from Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Lybia, Egypt or some degenerated Islamic hell hole, to Israel in order to push the Jews out of their land.

    I take you are a Muslim too, right? Only Muslims would be this stupid, despite your own UNHOLY Qu’ran stating in black and white that Israel IS the land of the Jews.
    PROOF:

    Qur’an 5: 20-21

    ” Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.”

    Qu’ran 17:104

    “And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, “Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering.”

    And I will throw this in as well, as a supplement.

    Get a Quran and READ IT.

    [If I will not exist you will not also. we can live or to die together and we wants to live.]

    You can exist but you are NOT a Palestinian. And if you die, it does not mean we will die together. I will still live, and so will my people. Your threats are pathetic.

    [I will not talk about history only the future.]

    That’s because you know jack shit of your past and you could not last a single minute in a debate with me or whoever else does. You can only know the future when you know the past.

    [We must solve all our problems, make real piece and you might return to Poland or London we will to see!]

    We don’t have a problem. You do. You are the one who has a fake identity which you and your idiotic leaders use to harass my people. You want peace? Then go back to Jordan, your Palestinian land.

    Jews were in existence even before Arabs were. And by the way, according to “Lawrence of Arabia” Arabs are also a FABRICATED PEOPLE. Don’t you forget EVER that it was the BRITISH who created Saudi Arabia.

    [Good luck with all nice fatty skinheads!]

    They are better men than you could ever be.

    Good luck with your burka clad dragons and your filthy bearded vermin. ;)

  76. Roberta Moore

    Gamil,

    By the way, I am Brazilian you moron.
    With a Lebanese mother and an Italian father.
    Why did you say POLAND or LONDON? I will answer that for you: Because you are just another one of those pathetic illiterate students who believe all Jews came from London or Poland.

    Thanks for exposing your ignorance to us. It’s not a coincidence that Jews have won over 72 Nobel Prizes while Arabs won 4 and from these 4 one was a fluke (Yasser Arafat).

    Swallow that.

  77. Hullo Roberta and Leah!

    I am happy that we talking and not killing each’s others. We say if a camel will make fart noise it will not hurts you but if he will walk on your feet you can not walk!

    We are not agreing on all things but I am seeing that you are understanding my view and think!

    I have not said you must to return to Poland by may be. Also Roberta Nebuchadnever is not the President today (ha! ha!) You must read more new newspapers.

    Good luck!

    Gamil

    • “I am seeing that you are understanding my view”

      Hardly. You are an ignorant liar with a view straight out of the antisemitic Arab propaganda book. Roberta has exposed your lies and ignorance brilliantly.

  78. They have not some answers. !

  79. Roberta Moore

    Gamil,

    [I am happy that we talking and not killing each’s others. We say if a camel will make fart noise it will not hurts you but if he will walk on your feet you can not walk!]

    They also say, “Don’t poke the tiger with a short stick as you will get hurt.”

    Now, will you prove me and the real Historical facts I gave you, wrong? Or will you run away with tail between your legs as you are doing now?

    I never lost a debate to a Muslim. Know why? Because I use facts. You use lies.

    And no.. I do not understand your view at all. I already told you that you are misguided. Learn History then you may return to debate with me.

    I don’t need luck. I have facts. What’s your excuse?

  80. Roberta Moore

    Ian,

    Sharansky knows damn well who Chaim is. When Chaim was denied aliyah his people went to sharansky and asked: “What the hell is going on? Intervene.”

    His reply was: “There is nothing I can do.”

    But there was plenty he could have done. At that time he was forming a coalition, all he would have had to do was to demand Chaim to be allowed to make aliyah, because they are not going to let a coalition fail over that, but he did nothing.

    Sharansky himself was one of the people Chaim freed.

    As you can see Ian, you are hanging out with filth and therefore the filth is rubbing onto you.

  81. Hullo Roberta!

    Why are you thinking I have my tail (between legs)? I am human been like you. this is sounding as racialism!

    I will to debate you! Come to Palestine, bring Leah we can do “threesome” debating I am not scared. Tell me when you come and we kill the sheep but not wine!

    Good luck!

    Gamil

    • Gamil

      sheep???

      and I am not invited?

      there is all this talk about camel being so wholesome down to its urine’s ability to cure cancer as some Saudi? scientists have found out recently.

      So why only sheep? Why not treat the two ladies to the really good stuff and give piss a chance?

      • “Why not treat the two ladies to the really good stuff and give piss a chance?”

        Good one :)

        “Tail between the legs” is an English expression, not a Portuguese one. It means that Gamal is running away from historical facts. Running away from the historical facts is something that Arabs are very good at (one of the few such things, by the way), which is why they are so incredibly backward.

      • the “good one” is a quip from commenter Serjew at Elder of Ziyon and he says he is from Brazil …

        thanks for confirming that tail between legs is English also, but since German uses tail for the most noble body part of the male I prefer to visualize it German style in this context … ;o)

    • Gamil

      I don’t know about Portuguese or whichever language Roberta is using here, but in German tail is what we call the proudest part of the male anatomy and at least I think at the mention of “tail between legs” not of animals but of certain mens’ intriguing way of moving about as if …

  82. Roberta is scared ha ha. Good night!

  83. Roberta Moore

    Gamil,

    Address my points on the Qu’ran and on the Historical facts I posted.
    Now, do you admit that Palestinians are a fabricated people and that Allah is a ZIONIST too? ;)
    Do you still want to kill all Zionists?

  84. Roberta Moore

    As I said, I never lost a debate to a Muslim. Anyone still wonder why?

  85. ‘I never lost a debate to a Muslim.’

    Now you was lost ! (ha ha)

  86. Roberta Moore

    The only thing I lost was my patience with such a childish moron like you. But I wouldn’t expect any intelligence from such inbred creatures.
    Yallah! Go play with your camels or with your sister.

  87. Must too go two my to wifes.

    Goodnight

  88. in the spirit of brotherly and sisterly love and happyness let us all join and sing along

    If I were better informed about your area I would of course adapt the lyrics, but I trust that Gamil can do that a lot better than I could

    In the meantime I find the rhythm intoxicating and irresistible.

    Gamil, Do you live in a tent? as beautiful maybe as Ghadaffi’s are?
    Tell us more about it, as you know I am really keen on info about camels.

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yalla+ya+nasrallah&aq=0&oq=yalla+ya+nas

  89. Roberta Moore

    Silke,

    Arabs have been eating camel shit for years.
    They say it cures Dysentery. Indeed, the wonderful Germans discovered that that there was something in the Camel’s dung that cured the disease, so they set out to produce pills and give them to their soldiers.

    Meanwhile the lovely Germans (having produced these pills for their troops) decided that it would be more fun to let the Arabs do what they had been doing for centuries, eat shit, instead of giving them the pill.

    You got to love the Germans!

    Read more:

    http://morrigandunn.blogspot.com/2010/04/bacillus-subtilis-story-when-arabs-ate.html

    • Roberta,

      I thought it was a hoax but apparently it is not

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_subtilis

      it is still sold in Germany as Utilin but it seems to be of the homeopathic kind and I don’t believe in that stuff

      I trust that some of it survives in “real” medication but they’ll hide its ancestry probably from all but the initiated.

      If the Germans kept the less cumbersome to ingest pills from their Arab allies tells one a lot of how reliable allies powerful people make.

      The Arabs would do better to try to learn to be honest friends of Jews, remembering that the devious Germans of the time were Jew-free.

  90. Roberta Moore

    Silke,

    I never post lies. ;)

    • I never thought so, but even the most honest person in the world can fall for a hoax or get mislead or find out he/she has been gullible. (If I think back it has happened to me innumberable times.)

      When that happens and said person with no ado readily admits to it I find him/her the more trustworthy for it.

      Elder of Ziyon for example recently had it happen to him not so long ago and behaved in the most commendable way imagineable.

  91. Roberta Moore

    Ian,

    [You admit You never read Searchlight – therefore You have never been prepared to look at our evidence .]

    That’s because your magazine is a bunch of lies, and I don’t waste time reading lies.
    The magazine you showed me, had an article on the EDL and 80% of it was a lie. Why should I agree this is evidence of anything?

    [Ray Hill’s infiltration of the Far-Right ( handled by Gerry Gable of Searchlight ) is a matter of historical record – do some research , read the book – look at the evidence . Can You use a search engine ? Wikipedia will tell You that Ray Hill foiled a gun-running operation of The British Democratic Party in 1981 & prevented a bombing of the Notting Hill carnival by The National Socialist Action Party . Ray Hill’s work was the subject of a World In Action documentary on tv .]

    Great. But he never “infiltrated” the EDL.

    [Amongst other support for Israel in The Trade Union Movement I have helped man the Trade Union Friends Of Israel stall at The TUC Congress for the last 6 years .]

    The TUC? So you are a BOYCOTTER OF ISRAEL too? Shame on you!!!!

    http://www.academics-for-israel.org/index.php?page=v9n6

    Now you have exposed yourself. Boycotting Israel is how you “HELP” Israel???
    Thankfully I am not associated with you. At least the EDL has dignity. You communist scumbags have no decency whatsoever.

    http://www.academics-for-israel.org/index.php?page=v8n9

    http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3944

    I shall let everyone here judge you by the company you keep, shall I????

    Now you realise WHO is the embarrassment to the Jewish community? Liar!! You are not a Zionist, you are a COMMUNIST who supports and works for those who want to boycott Israel.

    Disgraceful! Disgusting!!!!!
    And you have the chutzpah of speaking about the language I use on such scum?? Be grateful that I am quite mild. I use worse language towards the enemies of Israel because this is what vermin understand.

    What I cannot believe is that people like Jonathan Hoffman, who is a true Zionist regardless of the shit he gets from the APPEASERS ZF itself, has any association with the likes of you.

    You know what? I think I will get our writers to write a whole article exposing YOU, SEARCHLIGHT, HNH and the TUC, and post it on our main website, and in several other Jewish websites, principally Pamela Geller’s as it get over 500,000 readers per month. I may even do it myself.

    Here is an extract of an article of this page:

    http://israelseen.com/2011/02/17/the-british-trade-union-movement-israel-and-boycotts/

    “Over the past thirty years the Trades Union Congress (TUC) and member unions have regularly adopted resolutions containing anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian rhetoric.

    A whole generation of British left-wing trade union activists has been raised on a diet of conference motions whose only mention of Israel is in connection with its “brutality” and “oppression” of the Palestinian people.

    The current political position held by the leaders of Britain’s working class reflects a historical bias and amnesia concerning the state of Israel.”

    Now I will ask you a simple question, Ian:

    Do you believe “Palestinians” are being oppressed by Israel?

    I think it is shameful that you have adopted Muslim Taqqiya against your fellow Jews. It does not cost to be HONEST, you know?
    You are a deceiver. I hope EVERYONE sees these articles and what they say about the TUC which you wholeheartedly support.

    KAPO is the correct word for you.

    • Roberta ,

      You are completely Bonkers !!!

      Anybody with even a single brain cell knows that TUFI is the organisation that campaigns against the Anti-israel Boycott campaign at The TUC Conferences .

      You have certainly never lifted a finger to help support Israel within The Trade Unions – so shut up with Your lies about people who are actively fighting for Israels cause within our Movement !

      No I don’t believe that Israel ” opresses ” Palestinians – simple enough answer for even a half-whit like you to understand ?

      Ian .

    • “[You admit You never read Searchlight – therefore You have never been prepared to look at our evidence”

      Well, I have read it, and it’s as bonkers as Ian is.

  92. Interesting, thanks for the info on the camel dung, I’ve never heard of that (of course, we are getting quite a lot of dung here from Gamal).

  93. Ian, threatening Roberta with the police (normally you sue people for libel in the civil courts, dearie. But by all means go to your nearest nick and have the desk sergeant laugh at you). God, you are ignorant.

    “the Jewish Chronicle – the leading Jewish newspaper of The Jewish Community”

    A ridiculous rag, forever happy to give antisemites houseroom on its blogs and expel Israel-supporters who are not sufficiently polite to its even more ridiculous editor. A fitting paper for the craven Jewish community and the moronic BoD, I suppose.

    • Very well said Leah!

      It seems our “friend” Ian is not only worried that I will expose his true actions but has now taken to use threatening behaviour. Good job that I do not lie and would not even volunteer to expose him if I had no evidence of what I am talking about. Perhaps he can try the gagging injunction. hahahah.

      BOD, CST, UJS = Islamo-fascist appeasers. Would love to see Ian prove me wrong.

  94. Sharon Klaff

    Ian, Roberts et al – pease stop this scrap – there are more important issues to get on with. We can each in our own way make an impact without destroying the other. We have a common enemy – don’t lose focus in pesonal issues.
    XX

    • Sharon,

      I apologise. I got caught up in this debate with Ian because I know he is an apologist and Israel can do without these kinds of people to be honest.
      I did not have any intentions of fighting with him, in fact I had hoped he would see sense, but he chose to threaten me instead. This only proves I am right and he is afraid.

      It’s cool. You are right. I can deal with him later. We do have more important things to do and a much bigger enemy, although I have to say that these Leftist Jews are extremely dangerous to the welfare of Israel. It’s because of them that Israel is being attacked by all and from all sides. They have ENABLED our enemy to do so, with all the rubbish and lies they spout.

      Unfortunately I do not think that what Ian is doing is helping anyone, least of all the Jewish community. Quite the opposite. We do not need him interfering with our work to be honest. It is a shame, but ma laasot?

    • Dear Sharon ,

      I agree with You – but I have been subjected to a a whole load of personal abuse & lies ( such as the allegation that I am in favour of Boycotting Israel ) – You know that I actively campaign at AHAVA & in The Trade Unions against the Boycott & Anti-Zionism .

      That person obviously has very different political views to me but it is completely reprehensible that she is resorting to the sort of untruths & character assassination that she is engaging in .

      Best Wishes ,

      Ian .

      • You and your little mates resort to personal abuse, lies and character assassination every time you repeat vile lies about the EDL. Sort yourself out before trying to put someone else’s house in order.

        And for crying out loud, learn to use uppercase properly.

  95. Ian,

    [You are completely Bonkers !!!]

    LOL! Thanks. Is this the best you can do?

    [Anybody with even a single brain cell knows that TUFI is the organisation that campaigns against the Anti-israel Boycott campaign at The TUC Conferences .]

    And yet YOU support TUC. Explain to me WHY.

    [You have certainly never lifted a finger to help support Israel within The Trade Unions – so shut up with Your lies about people who are actively fighting for Israels cause within our Movement ]

    And I WON’T ever help people like that either. I do not associate myself or help COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST scum who pretend to be helping Israel, while demonizing her and her people.

    [No I don’t believe that Israel ” opresses ” Palestinians – simple enough answer for even a half-whit like you to understand ?]

    Thanks for the answer. Now you can explain to me WHY you support TUC and these BIASED BIGOTED Trade Unions. I am waiting…

    [Now You are using the Anti-Semitic word Kikes to insult Me ( and the Jewish Chronicle – the leading Jewish newspaper of The Jewish Community ) ]

    Hahah! Anti-Semitic? Are you calling ME an anti-Semitic?
    I used to word to express my DISGUST with those who are apologists, appeasers and cowards like you and the JC.
    The JC btw is NOT the leading newspapers of the Jewish Community. regretfully these apologists are still in the market and we should all BOYCOTT them for the lies they spout and denigration of Israel. I prefer ARUTZ SHEVA. Are you going to sue me for that? lol!!!

    [You are becoming increasingly abusive & lying ]

    I am not abusive. If I was you would know only too well. I don’t need to lie. I am being honest and if the truth hurts you, tough!!

    [none of the organisations that I support would ever be in favour of a Boycott of Israel]

    LIAR. The TUC is, and you have CONFESSED supporting and even working with them. Stop denying the obvious. Your words and confessions are here for all to see.

    [ ( The TUC has passed motions in support of a Boycott of Israeli goods from outside the 1967 borders – I am completely opposed to that & have actively campaigned against all & any Boycotts in my work with Trade Union Friends Of Israel ) ]

    And yet you still WORK for them and WITH them. So much for being “totally opposed to that”, huh?
    You are surely not doing a very good job in “actively campaigning against all these boycotts. Why don’t you ACTIVELY CAMPAIGN against TUC?

    [Stop threatening Me & I advise You to refrain from making libellous statements such as that I am in favour of Boycotts of Israel .]

    Ian, my dear I already told you that I do not threaten, but WARN. A threat means that you may or may not carry out what you say you will, but a WARNING means you DO carry out. And since I have evidence that you not only work for, but SUPORT the organisations that regularly CALL FOR BOYCOTT OF ISRAEL, you do not have a leg to stand on in court. Libellous statements? It would be if I was lying but I am not. And everyone here can see that.

    [I will be reporting Your comments to The CST , UJS , The JC , The ZF , The BOD & all the other Community Organisations that You are abusing – if You keep on making threats & unfounded allegations then I may also report You to The Police .]

    LOL! Go for it. Report whatever you damn well like. I am not afraid of you or your lies, least of all of your empty threats. Go cry to your apologist friends, and make sure you tell them exactly what I am saying about them. Let them all know. Yes, please! Save me the bother. Better even, show them this whole conversation.

    Oh and report me to the police as well. Hahaha! Do you really think you will bully me with your threats, Ian? DO IT. By all means, report me to the MI5 too. Hahahaaha.
    You are a joke, you know that? Threatening me like the Muslims. Very interesting… it seems you have learned a thing or two from the FATAH terrorists you want to have dialogues with.

    [I do not wish to have any further communications with You ]

    Then leave. But make sure you answer our questions first, before you do like Gamil and run with your tail between your legs. I want to know WHY you are supporting a group (TUC) that supports the boycott against Israel.

    I will start my article on you this weekend, and get my “infiltrators” to finish it off. ;)

    Ps. It’s just a shame that you have chosen to defend the undefendable. If it wasn’t for the fact that you are an Islamo-fascist/communist apologist, and someone who supports an organization that supports the boycott of Israel, I would not expose you. The left has failed us. The communists/socialists have betrayed us.

  96. I will apollogize Roberta for I had not known that you are Zionist that is not living in Isreal. I was thinking that you are on holyday or anything but now I no you are living in Brazil and also England sometimes that I am saying good luck!

    You are a good Zionist for you have may be ran away from Isreal or may be they (Bibi) have not wanted you in Isreal it is not important. I like you and am hoping that many many Isrealys are also leaving and running away. Very good!

    You are also funny for you was teaching me all about yours history in Isreal and also Neverhadanever (or something) but you are living in Brazil for cheap beers and England for nice fatty skin-heads with belly. If you are loveing Israel and if you are having a big history lesson why you ran away? say me Roberta.

    Now Roberta, I am not wanting to hear history lesson, I am wanting to ask if you are the good Zionist and if you are then why are all the Isrealys not good Zionists and running away also?

    You are a good man and you are also helping the Palestiean course!

    Thank you Roberta my freind
    ha ha

  97. Ian,

    As promised, here is our Mission Statement
    _________________________________

    English Defence League: Mission Statement

    1. Human Rights: Protecting And Promoting Human Rights

    The English Defence League (EDL) is a human rights organisation that exists to protect the inalienable rights of all people to protest against radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non-Muslims.

    It also recognises that Muslims themselves are frequently the main victims of some Islamic traditions and practices. The Government should ensure the individual human rights of members of the Muslim community to openly criticise Islamic orthodoxy, to challenge Islamic community leaders without fear of retribution, to receive full equality before the law (including equal rights for Muslim women), and to leave Islam if they see fit and to do so without fear or censure. Muslims have the right to demand reform of their religion to make it more relevant to the needs of the modern world, including the need to fully respect other groups in society without fear of retribution.

    The EDL calls upon the Government to repeal legislation that prevents effective freedom of speech, which is essential if the human rights abuses that sometimes manifest themselves around Islam are to be stopped.

    The EDL believes that radical Islam has a stranglehold on British Muslims. It keeps them fearful and isolated, especially the women that it encases in the burqa. It misrepresents their views, stifles freedom of expression, and radicalises their children, whilst continually doing a discredit to those who do wish to peacefully co-exist with their fellow Britons.

    2. Democracy and the Rule of Law: Promoting Democracy And The Rule Of Law By Opposing Sharia

    The European Court of Human Rights has declared that “sharia is incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy”. We have seen in recent years a great deal of accommodation with sharia norms based on the premise that sharia rules can be simply attached to our existing traditions and customs. In reality sharia is an alternative to our legal, political, and social systems.

    Encouragement of halal food, Islamic courts, and the demand to respect Islam are all aspects of sharia designed to undermine our established way of life on the road to the crystalisation of the full sharia alternative. Sharia law makes a fundamental distinction between Muslims and non-Muslims, and the EDL will never allow this sort of iniquitous apartheid system to take root in our country. The EDL will therefore oppose sharia appeasement in all its forms.

    3. Public Education: Ensuring That The Public Get A Balanced Picture Of Islam

    A central part of the EDL’s mission is public education. For a long time the British political and media establishment have been presenting a very sanitised and therefore inaccurate view of Islam shaped by the needs of policy-makers rather than the needs of the public. This has acted as a barrier to informed policy-making and made the solution of real problems impossible. In pursuing this self-defeating and destructive policy, the Government has effectively been acting as the propaganda arm of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    The EDL is committed to a campaign of public education to ensure that all aspects of Islam that impact on our society are brought into the open so that they can be debated in a forthright and honest manner. It believes that only by looking at all the facts can society be effectively and humanely governed. If there are aspects of Muslim tradition that encourage the activities of Islamic radicals and criminals, then these need to be properly addressed without fear of accusations of racism or xenophobia.

    The public must have a more balanced and less sanitised view of Islam that allows it to ensure that decision-makers are held to account for their policy-making choices, choices that affect the harmony and security of the nation.

    The EDL promotes the understanding of Islam and the implications for non-Muslims forced to live alongside it. Islam is not just a religious system, but a political and social ideology that seeks to dominate all non-believers and impose a harsh legal system that rejects the democratic process. It runs counter to all that we hold dear within our British liberal democracy.

    4. Respecting Tradition: Promoting The Traditions And Culture Of England While At The Same Time Being Open To Embrace The Best That Other Cultures Can Offer

    The EDL believes that English Culture has the right to exist and prosper in England. It recognises that culture is not static, and that over time natural change takes place, and that other cultures can make contributions which make our culture stronger and more vibrant. However, this does not give license to policy-makers to deliberately undermine our culture and impose non-English cultures on the English people in their own land.

    If people migrate to this country then they should be expected to respect our culture, its laws and traditions, and not expect their own cultures to be promoted by agencies of the state. The best of their cultures will be absorbed naturally and we will all be united by the enhanced culture that results.

    The EDL is therefore keen to draw its support from all races, all faiths, all political persuasions, and all lifestyle choices. Under its umbrella all people in England, whatever their background or origin, can stand united in a desire to stop the imposition of the rules of Islam on non-believers. In order to ensure the continuity of our culture and its institutions, the EDL stands opposed to the creeping Islamisation of our country, because that presents itself as an undemocratic alternative to our cherished way of life.

    Our armed forces stand up and risk their lives every day in order to protect our culture and democratic way of life. They, also, are inclusive of all England’s diversity, and are a shining example of what a people can achieve in unity. The EDL is therefore committed to opposing any and all abuse that our men and women in uniform are subjected to, and will campaign for legal remedies to ensure that those working within these important institutions are not exposed to abuse or aggression from within our country.

    5. International Outlook: Working In Solidarity With Others Around The World

    The EDL is keen to join with others who share its values, wherever they are in the world, and from whatever cultural background they derive. It believes that the demand for sharia is global and therefore needs to tackled at a global as well a as national level, so that this demand will never be realised. The EDL will therefore have an international outlook to enhance and strengthen its domestic efforts.
    ______________________________

    Now Ian, you point out to me and to ALL OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY:

    1. Where we are racist
    2. Where are we damaging Israel or Jews
    3. Where we are linking to BNP

    Etc..

    Show me any of the organizations you work for or support addressing the ISLAMIC PROBLEM.

    A group is judged mainly by its leadership. Did you hear the EDL LEADERS’s speech on 24th October outside the Israeli embassy?
    Judge that or STFU.

    • I would prefer for him to STFU. Morons who swallow the BBC’s lies get on my tits.

    • Roberta,

      Any chance you could work to rectify the following annoying phrases?

      “our legal, political, and social systems”

      That second comma is an annoying mannerism by OUP (and it’s American style, too). It has no place in good British English.

      “2. Democracy and the Rule of Law: Promoting Democracy And The Rule Of Law By Opposing Sharia”

      (And similarly in the other subheads)

      Only Democracy should be capitalised. British English does not capitalise every word in a subhead, only in a main title. Once again, this is American style, and is very annoying as well as wrong in British English.

      Thanks!

  98. Roberta Moore

    Leah,

    I am afraid I cannot change it now. But I will surely inform our editors to pay more attention to the English grammar ;)

  99. Gamil
    you are a mischieveous little dodger – nonetheless I hope that you are a man as beautiful as this one

    Look at it and then stop being so cruel and start telling me all about camels.

    • What is this fascination with camels? You are not suffering from dysentery, I hope!

      • Roberta Moore

        LOL!!!!!

      • thanks for asking, heaven be thanked I am not afflicted with dysenterie and if I should ever be so unlucky to catch it I’ll resort to the time honoured deeply German cure for it which is Salzstangen http://www.lebensmittelfotos.com/wp-content/gallery/backwaren_frei/salzstangen_01_amapur.jpg
        and Coca Cola ;-) (seriously I kid you not, we ascribe magical qualities to the stuff.)

        but ever since I read Robert Graves on Lawrence of Arabia which had a lot of camel lore and tribal lore (quite a tough to manage bunch they are) in it I have been eager to learn more. And since Gamal is not going to stop trying to woe you two he may as well do something for me also.

        i.e. from earlier threads I know that his livelihood depends on camels.

        I am by nature a very curious person and therefore I am quite distressed that Ian recommends the Fatah Trade Union without apparently having any undercover information on it.

        a case of “Where ignorance is bliss, it’s folly to be wise”????

  100. Roberta Moore

    Leah,

    [You and your little mates resort to personal abuse, lies and character assassination every time you repeat vile lies about the EDL. Sort yourself out before trying to put someone else’s house in order.]

    I agree with you on this as well.

    Ian has done character assassination of the EDL countless times, by claiming to have “intelligence” on us. All he had were opinions and bullshit he gathered from the Guardian, BBC and other biased media like the JC or Ha’aretz. Ohh yeah, perhaps a couple of videos from EX-EDL members some 2 years ago, which he STILL quotes to support his lies.

    These bastards (Media) have said I was a Kahanist and member of the Kach party (which is all bullcrap). I was never a member of any party, not here nor in Israel. I did not even mention Kahane during my interview with Ha’aretz and I have evidence to prove it because I secretly recorded the whole 3 hours of it. But as soon as that article came out all those commie kapos started mouthing around that I was a Kahanist loads of other crap.

    Anyone who has ever been interviewed by the media will know how much they lie and twist your words.

    Let’s not forget also that biased websites and blogs will also attack you even though they don’t know you. They will form their opinions based on the biased media.

    I lost count of how many times I have been attacked and worse, by JEWS!!!! Well, KAPOS and apologists I mean.

    What Ian does not understand (as his yarmulke is too far up the Islamo-fascists’ asses) is that I and my colleagues are constantly being threatened. We had several death threats, and most of it for not only addressing the Shariah issue but for supporting Israel and firmly admitting we are Zionists.

    So when you have so-called “Jews” like Ian demonizing us as well, the Muslims love it, and say: “See? Even the Jews don’t like you”!

    And he keeps on spreading his crap with the intention of turning the whole community against us.

    People like Ian are quick to criticize the Neturei Karta but they don’t even look at their own behaviour. They think NOTHING of putting people’s lives in danger.

    At least I served in the IDF, at least I served in the British Army… what has he ever done?

    And likewise I say BARUCH HA’SHEM that we have some “football hooligans” in our group, because when things get tough we will not run like rats, or like the rest of the Kapo. We will stand and fight. And if Ian thinks his commie mates will save his ass when the Muslims come for him, he can think again. “First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people! So goes the old Arabic saying…

    I am so grateful to everyone who supports us and our cause, because these people truly know what would happen if Britain becomes Islamized. We just have to look at ALL the Islamic countries and how they treat their people and those non-Muslims whom they call the Kuffar. Look at how Dhimmis were treated under Islam.

    Only a retard cannot see the problem, and let’s face it, our own communities are full of these retards.

    Who do they think will help them when the situation worsens or us all? Our DHIMMI governments? Go back to Israel? We might not even have an Israel if these lunatics keep being allowed to spew their poison.

    Their stupidity truly infuriates me.

    I sincerely hope that there are still Jews out there who care about the future of their children and want to fight alongside us, because we will NOT fight for them if they are too cowardly to fight for themselves.

  101. Roberta Moore

    http://www.israellycool.com/2011/05/18/fight-you-with-us-on-the-morrow/

    Just wanted to share this with you.

    What were you saying IAN??? 99% of the Jewish community wants nothing to do with the EDL?
    Watch you fall from grace…

    • You can’t fall from something you never had.

      The fact that the BoD do not demand, loud and clear and non-stop, including through the pathetic so-called ‘chief rabbi’ in the Lords, for prosecutions to be brought for the clearest case of race hatred and incitement to murder by the Islamo-fascists and their groupies, and for the Met police commissioner to be sacked if he doesn’t have them arrested and charged, shows clearly that the BoD are kapos and dhimmis.

      • Roberta Moore

        Totally in agreement!
        Chief Rabbi? LOL! That idiot is another Islamic appeaser, constantly “promoting interfaith dialogue”, for what reason I do not know.

        The dialogue between these imbeciles goes like that:

        Muslim – Allah said we must kill all the Jews.

        Jew – Here is a knife, please behead us.

        This is precisely what is happening, and I kid you not.

        I have 3 recordings of a debate between Rabbi Shifren and another 2 very modern “rabbis” from Hendon (I will not name them to save them from humiliation) where Rabbi Shifren addressed several points regarding Islam and those two did not know what to say.

        I posted one of the videos in our blog (One which I did not film the other 2 rabbis to save them from embarrassment) but I won’t post the others because if I do, I could damage their career.

        Here is one of the videos I filmed.

        http://edl-englishdefenceleague.blogspot.com/2011/02/rabbi-nachum-shifrens-words-to-british.html

        We support Rabbi Shifren and also Rabbi Rafael Rabinovich.

        These men have GUTS! These are the ONLY Rabbis I have seen speaking out.
        Where are the others?

  102. “I won’t post the others because if I do, I could damage their career”

    And this is relevant because … ?

  103. Daniel Marks

    In line with our longstanding policy, the MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL closes late Thursday to give its members a chance to prepare Shabbat. We reopen Saturday after havdalah. Fundamental to JEDDL philosophy is the belief that more than the Jew has kept the Sabbath, the Sabbath has kept the Jew.

    The Maale Adumin regional office of the Official Israeli (UK expatriate) Branch of the Jewish Division of the English Defense League will not be holding a bonfire this year for Lag Ba’omer, but urges its members who are participating in such events to exercise caution and not to forget to fully extinguish the fires returning home.

    The Jewish Division of the English Defence League reminds its members that tachanun is not said on Lag Ba’omer at morning or afternoon prayers, likewise, shaving is permitted.

    The JDEFL Maale Adumim branch has taken note of the arrival on this excellent blog of the esteemed Palestinian propagandist and international camel dung merchant Mr G Elias. He is welcomed in the spirit of productive dialog, but urged to focus on the subject in hand and avoid name calling or personal attacks against our leader – sister Roberta.

    Other issues be dealt with in the fullness of time.

    D. Marks

    MAAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  104. Talk about verbal diarrhoea.

  105. Hullo Leah,

    To try camel urines and if they doesn’t help eating rice.

    Please to be feeling better!!

    Gamil

  106. Gamil
    do you have any idea how this much lauded camel urines are applied and most importantly – do you know where I can get some to figure out for myself, if it is as helpful as the Saudi scientists claim it is.

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/11/saudi-scientists-camel-urine-fights.html

    I checked ebay and they don’t have it on offer. I checked amazon and all they offer is a very interesting sounding book called “The Life of Pee”.

    Once I read that the ancient Romans used the stuff, not from camels but as best I remember from humans, to clean clothes with.

    Any further information from you will be much appreciated by me

    Silke
    GGA-MAAORCOIUEUBJDEDJ-UIUKEBJDEDL

    (Correct order of chapters still under discussion)

    I

  107. Daniel Marks

    Hi Leah,

    Diarrhea is often caused by lack of personal hygiene. Remember to was your hands thoroughly after going to the bathroom (preferably with warm water and soap) and to change your underwear daily.

    Feel better

    D. Marks

    AAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  108. Daniel Marks

    Sorry Leah, “wash” not “was”. Hi Leah,

    “..to wash your hands thoroughly after going to the bathroom”

    With all due respect to G Elias’ expertise, I would recommend avoiding the camel urine without consulting your family doctor.

    D. Marks

    AAORCOIUKEBJDEDL

  109. Gamil Elias

    Praise be to Allaah.

    The hadeeth referred to by the questioner is a saheeh hadeeth, in which it says that some people came to Madeenah and fell sick. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to drink the milk and urine of camels, and they recovered and grew fat. In the story it also says that they apostatized and killed the camel-herder, then the Muslims caught them and executed them. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2855) and Muslim (1671).

    With regard to the health benefits of drinking the milk and urine of camels, they are many, and they are well known to the earlier generations of medical science and they have been proven by modern scientific research.

    Ibn al-Qayyim said:

    The author of al-Qanoon (the Canon) – i.e. the doctor Ibn Seena (Avicenna) – said:

    The most beneficial of urine is the urine of Bedouin camels which are called najeeb. End quote.

    Zaad al-Ma’aad (4/47, 48).

    In the Emirati newspaper al-Ittihaad (issue no. 11172, Sunday 6 Muharram 1427 AH/5 February 2006) it says:

    One of the most important things for which camels are raised is their milk, which is efficacious in treating many illnesses, including hepatitis, and the digestive system in general, various types of cancer and other diseases.

    In an article by Dr Ahlaam al-‘Awadi, which was published in al-Da’wah magazine, issue no. 1938, 25 Safar 1425 AH/15 April 2004 CE, about the diseases which can be treated with camel’s milk, as proven by experience, it says that there are many benefits in camel’s milk. There follows some of what was said in the article by Dr. Ahlaam:

    Camel’s urine is efficacious in the treatment of skin diseases such as ringworm, tinea and abscesses, sores that may appear on the body and hair, and dry and wet ulcers. Camel’s urine brings the secondary benefits of making the hair lustrous and thick, and removing dandruff from the scalp. Camel’s milk is also beneficial in treating hepatitis, even if it has reached an advanced stage where medicine is unable to treat it. End quote.

    In the al-Jazeerah al-Sa’oodiyyah newspaper (issue no. 10132, Rabee’ al-Awwal 1421 AH) there is a quotation from the book Al-Ibl Asraar wa i’jaaz (The camel: secrets and wonders) by Darmaan ibn ‘Abd al-‘Azeez Aal Darmaan and Sanad ibn Mutlaq al-Subay’i:

    As for camel’s urine, the book suggests that it has numerous uses which are beneficial for man. This is indicated by the Prophetic texts and confirmed by modern science … Scientific experiments have proven that camel’s urine has a lethal effect on the germs that cause many diseases.

    Among the uses of camel’s urine, many women use it to wash their hair, to make it longer, and to make it lighter and more lustrous. Camel’s urine is also efficacious in the treatment of swelling of the liver and other diseases such as abscesses, sores that appear on the body and toothache, and for washing eyes. End quote.

    Prof. Dr. ‘Abd al-Fattaah Mahmoud Idrees says: With regard to the benefits of camel’s urine in treating disease, Ibn Seena said in his Qanoon: The most beneficial of urine is the urine of the Bedouin camels known as najeeb. Camel’s urine is beneficial in treating al-hazaaz, and it was said that al-hazzaz is a pain in the heart caused by anger and so on. Camel’s urine, especially the urine of a young she-camel – is used as a cleansing substance to wash wounds and sores, to make the hair grow, to strengthen and thicken it and to prevent it falling out, and it is used to treat diseases of the scalp and dandruff. In a Master’s thesis by an engineer in applied chemistry, Muhammad Awhaaj Muhammad, that was submitted to the faculty of applied chemistry in the al-Jazeerah university in Sudan, and approved by the Dean of science and postgraduate studies in the university in November 1998 CE, entitled A Study of the Chemical Composition and Some Medical Uses of the Urine of Arabian Camels, Muhammad Awhaaj says:

    Laboratory tests indicate that camel’s urine contains high levels of potassium, albuminous proteins, and small amounts of uric acid, sodium and creatine.

    In this study, he explained that what prompted him to study the medicinal properties of camel’s urine was what he had seen of some tribesmen drinking this urine whenever they suffered digestion problems. He sought the help of some doctors in studying camel’s urine. They brought a number of patients and prescribed this urine for them, for a period of two months. Their bodies recovered from what they had been suffering from, which proves the efficacy of camel’s urine in treating some diseases of the digestive system.

    It also proves that this urine is useful in preventing hair loss. He says:

    Camel’s urine acts as a slow-acting diuretic, but it does not deplete potassium and other salts as other diuretics do, because camel’s urine contains a high level of potassium and proteins. It has also been proven to be effective against some types of bacteria and viruses. It brought about an improvement in the condition of twenty-five patients who used camel’s urine for dropsy, without disrupting their potassium levels. Two of them were cured of liver pain, and their liver function was restored to normal levels, as well as the tissue of the liver being improved. One of the medicines used to treat blood clots is a compound called Fibrinoltics which works by changing a substance in the body from its inactive form, Plasminogen, to its active form, Plasmin, in order to dissolve the substance that causes clotting, Fibrin. One of the components of this compound is called Urokinase, which is produced by the kidneys or from the urine, as indicated by the name “uro”.

    The dean of the Faculty of Medical Science in the Sudanese al-Jazeerah university, Professor Ahmad ‘Abd-Allaah Ahmadaani, has discovered a practical way of using camel’s urine to treat dropsy and swelling in the liver. Its success has been proven in treating those who are affected by these diseases. He said in a seminar organized by the al-Jazeerah University:

    The experiment began by giving each patient a daily dose of camel’s urine mixed with camel’s milk to make it palatable. Fifteen days after the beginning of the experiment, the patients’ stomachs grew smaller and went back to their normal size.

    He said that he examined the patients’ livers with ultrasound before the study began, and he found out that the livers of fifteen out of the twenty-five were in a cirrhotic state, and some of them had developed cirrhosis of the liver as the result of bilharzia. All of the patients responded to treatment with camel’s urine, and some of them continued, by their own choice, to drink a dose of camel’s urine every day for a further two months. At the end of that time, they were all found to have been cured of cirrhosis of the liver. He said: Camel’s urine contains a large amount of potassium, as well as albumen and magnesium, because the camel only drinks four times during the summer and once during the winter, which makes it retain water in its body so as to preserve the sodium, and the sodium causes it not to urinate a great deal, because it keeps the water in its body.

    He explained that dropsy results from a deficiency of albumen or potassium, and the urine of camels in rich in both of these.

    He suggested that the best type of camels for using the urine as a remedy are young camels.

    Dr. Ahlaam al-‘Awadi, a specialist in microbiology in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, supervised some scientific papers that dealt with her discoveries in the usage of camel’s urine for medical treatment, such as the papers by ‘Awaatif al-Jadeedi and Manaal al-Qattaan. During her supervision of the paper by Manaal al-Qattaan, she succeeded in confirming the effectiveness of using a preparation made from camel’s urine which was the first antibiotic produced in this manner anywhere in the world. Concerning the features of this new product, Dr. Ahlaam said:

    It is not costly, and it is easy to manufacture. It can be used to treat skin diseases such as eczema, allergies, sores, burns, acne, nail infections, cancer, hepatitis and dropsy with no harmful side effects.

    And she said:

    Camel’s urine contains a number of healing factors such as antibiotics (bacteria that are present in it, salts and urea). The camel possesses an immune system that is highly equipped to combat funguses, bacteria and viruses, because it contains antibodies. It may also be used to treat blood clots and fibrinolytics may be derived from it, and it may be used to treat dropsy (which is caused by a deficiency in albumen and potassium, as camel’s urine is rich in both). Camel’s urine may also provide a remedy for abdominal complaints, especially those of the stomach and intestines, as well as asthma and shortness of breath. It caused a noticeable reduction in patients’ sugar levels. It is a remedy for low libido, and it aids in bone growth in children and in strengthening the heart muscles. It may be used as a cleansing agent for cleaning wounds and sores, especially the urine of young she-camels. It also helps the hair to grow and become strong and thick, and it helps to prevent hair loss and baldness, and can be used to treat dandruff. Camel’s urine may also be used to combat disease by using bacteria extracted from it. It was used to treat a girl who was suffering from an infection behind the ear, that was accompanied by pus weeping from it and painful cracks and sores. It was also used to treat a girl who was unable to extend the fingers of her hands because of the presence of so many cracks and sores, and whose face was almost black with pimples. Dr. Ahlaam said:

    Camel’s urine may also be used to treat the digestive system and to treat some cases of cancer. She stated that the research that she had undertaken on camel’s urine proved that it was effective in destroying micro-organisms such as fungus, yeast and bacteria.

    Dr. Rahmah al-‘Ulyaani, who is also from Saudi Arabia, carried out tests on rabbits infected with bacteria in the colon. She treated each group of rabbits with a different kind of medicine, including camel’s urine. There was a noticeable regression in the rabbits that were treated with other medicines, except for camel’s urine, which brought about a clear improvement.

    Majallat al-Jundi al-Muslim, issue no. 118, 20 Dhu’l-Qa’dah 1425 AH; 1 January 2005 CE.

    Allaah calls upon us to ponder the creation of the camel, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?”

    [al-Ghaashiyah 88:17]

    This pondering is not limited to the outward form of the camel, or even to the inner workings of its body, rather it also includes that which we have discussed here, which is the benefits of the urine and milk of the camel. Modern scientific research is still discovering for us many of the wonders of this creature.

    And Allaah knows best.

  110. Gamil
    that surely is wonderful – but how do I get a hold of the stuff in Germany when I don’t live next to a zoo and I can’t distinguish between one camel and another.

    Please open a shop on e-bay – I understand that you can ship neither milk nor urine, but how about asking one of those Israeli scientists who are so good at solving problems to develop a procedure that allows you to dry the stuff and thus let us Europeans profit too.

    All my life I have suffered from what I call tenderly feather hair – your description makes me hope that if only I could get the stuff I could get one of those luxurious growth that I have envied in my sisters from the mediterranean as long as I can remember.

  111. Daniel Marks

    Leah is indisposed; I think we can surmise where.

    We would only recommend extreme caution and for her to put her trust in hygiene and conventional medicine before turning to radical untested diarrhea medication.

    • Roberta Moore

      Bob from Brockley, you posted a 1 year old article to us. Why? Can’t you find anything newer than that?

      I like when they say we are “The thugs of Britain’s most violent football gangs”. Hahahah!!
      Oh well, at least we burn swastika and jihad flags. But perhaps Israel wants these friends instead?

      http://sheikyermami.com/2009/10/13/shrieking-harpie-symbol-chaser-and-libel-blogger-charles-johnson-tries-again-and-fails/

      I guess that our resident KAPO Jews have no problem whatsoever with Hazbollah, The Iranian Regime, Fatah, Hamas, etc.. giving NAZI SALUTES, after all they were the ones who inspired Hitler.

      But these filthy KAPOS reckon that the EDL is more dangerous to the “Jewish Community” than the Islamonazis. Interesting… perhaps these imbecilic Kapos would care to explain to me and others how they got to this conclusion.

      Last I heard the EDL was not attempting to control the world, force people to wear Bikinis or eat pork. Unless I am missing something here I would like our resident Kapos to explain to us why the animosity against the EDL, the ONLY FRIEND the Jewish community has in the UK, while they (kapos) work together with organizations that support HAMAS, FATAH and other Nazis who want to not only impose Shariah law in our countries, but also make us all DHIMMIS.

      Would like some honest answers if you please.

      • Just noticed this comment: “Bob from Brockley, you posted a 1 year old article to us. Why? Can’t you find anything newer than that?”

        Well, if you’re asking, this was published yesterday:
        ““This was not an afternoon’s fun,” Judge Patrick Thomas QC told the men. “It was a dangerous and unpleasant incident involving a mob attack on police doing their duty.”
        He said it was clear their offending was not linked to the march in Dudley last year, but towards police officers who were present to protect citizens from threats and violence.”

        http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2011/05/22/edl-thugs-jailed-after-dudley-march-trouble-66331-28738570/

        Or how about this from last week:
        “AN English Defence League supporter attacked a police horse, punching it eight times during last month’s demonstration in Blackburn”

        http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9029661.Five_in_court_after_Blackburn_EDL_rally/

        Or this from last month, presumably not done by actual EDL members, but showing what they incite:
        “A memorial bridge to a young girl in Detling, Maidstone, has been defaced with extreme far right and anti-Muslim graffiti including a call to “kill Muslims.” The graffiti, which also reads “keep Britain British” and “EDL” – the acronym for the far- right anti Islam group, English Defence League – have been scratched into the moss on Jade’s Crossing.”

        http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=5221

        This, published on Saturday, gives an idea of the sort of people the EDL attracts:
        “A WOMAN attacked several police officers, biting one, after her arrest during an English Defence League rally, a court heard.”

        http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9041017.Woman_bit_police_officer_after_arrest/

        From about three weeks ago:
        “THREE alleged members of the far-right English Defence League movement have been charged over race related vandalism including at Hartlepool mosque.”

        http://www.peterleemail.co.uk/news/local/accused_of_race_crimes_1_3336307

        And
        “TAXPAYERS forked out nearly £2million for policing an English Defence League demonstration – twice the original estimated cost.”

        http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/04/25/english-defence-league-demo-cost-police-2million-115875-23084773/#ixzz1NAgz4NKo

        I’ll stop there, but will repeat: these are not the friends Israel wants.

      • I said I wasn’t going to get into a debate with someone with such a weak grasp of reality, but I’ve been thinking about this:
        “But these filthy KAPOS reckon that the EDL is more dangerous to the “Jewish Community” than the Islamonazis. Interesting… perhaps these imbecilic Kapos would care to explain to me and others how they got to this conclusion.”
        Roberta means the Board of Deputies and the Zionist Federation when she says “these filthy KAPOS”, so not many people will take her seriously. But I think a lot of people do think that the EDL aren’t so bad compared to the Islamo-fascists, and in a war you take the support you can. So this is worth taking seriously. But we must never think of this as an either/or thing. However bad the likes of Islam4UK is makes no difference to how we should view the EDL. It doesn’t matter whether the EDL and BNP are less of a threat to the community than Islamism or not, the point is that the EDL are a racist organisation. And, although this is less important in some ways, Israel supporters’ association with the EDL is a huge propaganda victory for Israel’s enemies, and that should be reason enough to steer completely clear of them.

        OK, that’s enough from me, as I’m sure Richard doesn’t really want his comment threads polluted with this stuff any longer

    • So BobFromBrockley claims that the EDL “is a racist organisation”. Would you care to show where in any of the EDL’s statements they have said they are “white supremacists”, where they have said they hate and despise non-white people, where they have said that non-white people are inferior, where have they said non-white people (or even muslims) are not welcome in EDL? You cannot show these statements because Bob’s claims are NOT true. Among the original leaders of the EDL were asian men, black men, mixed-race men, and white men. When they burned the swastika on Newsnight 18 months ago, it was perfectly clear that they were from a range of races. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.174572482560529.40860.132236756794102#!/photo.php?fbid=178940275457083&set=a.174572482560529.40860.132236756794102&type=1&theater Yet still Bob is driven by his own prejudice to ignore THESE FACTS. When the non-white editor of Liberal Conspiracy went to an EDL demo, he fully expected to receive racial abuse, and was astonished when he was simply ignored: http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/02/05/hanging-out-in-the-midst-of-the-edl/ But, of course, Bob still peddles the lie that EDL is a racist organisation when there are no statements from the organisation that he can use as evidence, when there is photographic evidence that shows he is lying, and when there is even witness testimony from antipathetic non-white people who have gone on EDL demos.

      The EDL has made many statements about its aims and positions. You can visit their website and forum and see those things for yourself – no need to form a conclusion based on Bob’s lies. Only someone who wants the EDL to be racist would concoct these lies.

      Furthermore, Bob represents a handful of isolated incidents where people associated with EDL or EDL demos have been involved with violence, and concludes from that the entire organisation is made up of violent criminals. But let us take that logic and apply it to islam — just because some muslims are terrorists doesn’t make all muslims terrorists (does it?). Just because muslims are far more criminal than other groups, does not make all muslims criminals. But that is the “logic” Bob seeks to apply. In fact, islam does enjoin violence on its followers, and does promote supremacism – something the EDL does not do.

      By following Bob’s logic “islam is a terrorist organisation”, and presumably Bob would argue that “judaism is a racist organisation”. Certainly there are many jews who see themselves as a “race”, and they make the barrier to entry into their religion very high. It is easier to join EDL than it is to become a jew — does that make judaism a “racist organisation”?

      I’m not even going to denounce violence per se. The media whores claiming EDL is “far-right” and “racist” direct neo-nazis and racists to see it as a home for them. When these racist and neo-nazi groups and individuals get close to EDL, they find out they are the ones who are not welcome. In November 2009 the EDL attacked Combat 18 over the latter’s anti-semitic views, resulting in one of the neo-Nazis being hospitalised: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.133777043306740.19688.132236756794102#!/photo.php?fbid=211031475581296&set=a.133777043306740.19688.132236756794102&type=1&theater . When was the last time that either a jewish organisation or an “anti-fascist” organisation actually fought a street battle with neo-Nazis over the issue of defending jews?

      In November 2010 a prominent BNP member was threatened with violence unless he left an EDL meeting — again he was threatened because of his long-term association with Griffin and the latter’s history of holocaust denial. http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1761/edl-rejects-barnbrook-approach

      I think it’s great that the BNP denounces EDL as “zionist” (it’s time the word “zionist” was reclaimed as a badge of honour). I think it’s great that the white supremacists of Blood and Honour despise the EDL, precisely because the EDL will attack racists and nazis like Combat 18 and B&H.

      But hey, if the jews in Britain want to carry on undermining EDL, go ahead. The BNP has admitted that its increased popularity in recent years has been fueled by Britons’ increasing antipathy towards islam. That antipathy is only going to get stronger. To me it is a great pity that all over europe it is the right-wing who are taking a stand on islamo-fascism — it is the right-wing who are going to rise and rise. I just hope that their focus stays clearly and truly on islamo-fascism, and that other groups such as jews and homosexuals and blacks do not become targets.

      It is clearly BobFromBrockley who wants a racist, violent right-wing movement to arise. As someone married to an asian, I see BobFromBrockley as my enemy.

      Here’s a collection of images from the organisation that BobFromBrockley so freely lies about: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.174572482560529.40860.132236756794102 Judge for yourselves who is telling the truth here: Bob or me.

  112. I’ve tried to read through this whole comment thread (minus the camel piss stuff) and I’ve got a few thoughts.

    First, this stuff about “the left” is both silly and beside the point. “The left” and “the right” have both contained plenty of people and movements that have been anti-fascists and friends of Israel and the opposite. “The left” includes George Orwell as much as it includes Stalin and the SWP, just as “the right” includes both Hitler and Churchill. It’s not helpful to make these sweeping statements. But the idea that because the left has failed us in recent years means we should turn to… the EDL is totally absurd, and makes no sense.

    Second, the statements about Searchlight are either totally misinformed or malicious. I have lots of criticisms of Searchlight, but that they are “communists” is not one of them. Its founders were Communists, who broke with the party, I think, when the party turned against Israel, but it is a long time since Searchlight has had anything to do with Communism. Now, it works with the police and is fully supported by all the institutions of Anglo-Jewry.

    Third, statements like this need looking at pretty carefully: “I have met some of them and spoken with them and they are salt of the earth people fighting for a democratically free England and Englishmen based in Christianity and the morals and ethics of the Old Testament, just as we are fighting for Israel and Jews based in the same ethics and values of the Old Testament. ” Just because you’ve met someone from a party and they seem like the “salt of the earth” means nothing. If you met someone from Hamas or the Nazi party and they seemed nice would not mean we should work with them does it? And what future would Jews have in an England based on Christianity?

    Fourth, it is clear from the comments how out of step with the mainstream community the EDL’s Jewish supporters are. Every major Jewish institution in this country has criticised the EDL and, while most British Jews don’t endorse everything the Chief Rabbi says, they know he is not an idiot or an Islam appeaser. This out of step ness is not surprising when the first comment in support of the EDL includes antisemitic stereotyping of “frock-coated filthy bearded Yiddish speakers”.

    There may be some salt of the earth members of the EDL, but its leadership is full of thugs, BNP rejects, terrorists, criminals, fascists and racists, and they are not the allies we should be making.

    • Its founders were Communists, who broke with the party, I think, when the party turned against Israel, but it is a long time since Searchlight has had anything to do with Communism.

      Years ago I read up on some names, Nick Cohen mentioned in “What’s Left?” and much to my dismay I found that some of them have turned to in what I am calling for myself internationalists or “without borders”.

      I, however, believe in good fences make for good neighbours and when I hear Bernard Kouchner waxing lyrical in his BBC-interview about the imminent switch from the Right to Intervene to the Obligation to Intervene I get scared silly.

      German Green Party, Joschka Fischer’s outfit was founded in the late 1970s Wikipedia says.
      “Der lange Marsch durch die Institutionen” was proclaimed by Rudi Dutschke in 1967. In the first half of the 70s I had to get work out of quite a number of temps (we had “over”-employment then) who tried to teach me the stuff. Anecdotal evidence certainly but it synched with what I heard in the MSM.

      The call changed its meaning or emphasis somewhat through the years and had one of its triumphs when Joschka Fischer became German Foreign Minister.

      http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsch_durch_die_Institutionen

      The EDL was founded in March of last year if I remember correctly….

    • Roberta Moore

      Bob,

      [“The left” and “the right” have both contained plenty of people and movements that have been anti-fascists and friends of Israel and the opposite. “The left” includes George Orwell as much as it includes Stalin and the SWP, just as “the right” includes both Hitler and Churchill.]

      WRONG.

      See this video and pay attention to the Political Compass at 8:32. EDL is NOT on the Right per se, least of all FAR RIGHT.

      Stalin and SWP are LEFTISTS. Not on the Right. This shows how much people are MISINFORMED politically.

      [But the idea that because the left has failed us in recent years means we should turn to… the EDL is totally absurd, and makes no sense.]

      Yes it is absurd because the EDL is NOT a political party and they cannot solve your problems. The EDL is a Human Rights Pressure Group that forces whatever government that is in power to act for Britain and British interests. And since there is no such equivalent group anywhere, the EDL might not be the best choice but it’s the ONLY CHOICE.

      [Second, the statements about Searchlight are either totally misinformed or malicious. I have lots of criticisms of Searchlight, but that they are “communists” is not one of them. Its founders were Communists, who broke with the party, I think, when the party turned against Israel, but it is a long time since Searchlight has had anything to do with Communism. Now, it works with the police and is fully supported by all the institutions of Anglo-Jewry.]

      1. Searchlight IS communist and Socialist. Two dangerous and AUTHORITARIAN ideologies.

      2. The EDL also works with the police. And..?

      3. Anglo-Jewry institutions are LEFTIST, and therefore SWP linked. SWP = Fascism. So obviously they would support the communist Searchlight.

      4. There is no malice in truth, and if the truth hurts then good.

      [If you met someone from Hamas or the Nazi party and they seemed nice would not mean we should work with them does it? And what future would Jews have in an England based on Christianity?]

      Searchlight works with parties that support FATAH and HAMAS. What do you say about this?
      Searchlight works with people that support the Boycott of Israel and Israeli goods. What do you say about this?

      And what is the future for Jews under Christianity? What are you on about? Who said the EDL is planning to impose Christianity upon the Jews? However as far as I know, Jews live in freedom and in peace in Christian countries like USA, France, Britain, Brazil, Spain, Portugal, etc.. or are the Christians burning synagogues and murdering Jews now? Enlighten me with some evidence on this please.

      [Fourth, it is clear from the comments how out of step with the mainstream community the EDL’s Jewish supporters are. Every major Jewish institution in this country has criticised the EDL and, while most British Jews don’t endorse everything the Chief Rabbi says, they know he is not an idiot or an Islam appeaser. This out of step ness is not surprising when the first comment in support of the EDL includes antisemitic stereotyping of “frock-coated filthy bearded Yiddish speakers”.]

      The Jewish Division (Jdiv) is definitely against Jewish groups that support appeasement, and that means most of the mainstream community if I am to be candid.

      You say “every major Jewish Institution in this country has criticised the EDL…”

      What do you expect? Leftist appeasers will always criticise those who call the enemy by its name. These Jewish Institutions are working WITH THE ENEMY, so of course they would criticise us, the cowards. We did not expect them to have an ounce of a braincell anyway. But that does not bother us. What bothers us is that they are betraying our whole community and not only the EDL as a group. What pisses us off is that they are sucking up to the enemy who wants them dead, while attacking the only friend they have.

      Taking by this attitude I personally think the EDL should NOT support any of these idiots to be honest. The reason we continue is because we truly care for Israel and for our people, and we will not punish the majority for the mistakes of a few Kapos.

      The Jewish community has been disgracefully betrayed by their own. Our own leftist Jews rather do business with Hamas and Fatah than to address the issue of Islamization as they should have done years ago, when all this crap started.

      Furthermore none of you can deny the blatant RACISM coming from Ashkenazi groups towards Sephardic and Mizrachi ones. Do not try to tell me that us Jews are all perfect and set highest standards for ourselves. I could open a whole can of worms here.

      Appeasement of Islamonazis is not setting high standards.

      [There may be some salt of the earth members of the EDL, but its leadership is full of thugs, BNP rejects, terrorists, criminals, fascists and racists, and they are not the allies we should be making.]

      Quite the opposite. EDL leadership is sound. We do have a couple of EX-BNP in it, but then again I also know at least 10 Jews who voted BNP. What does that tell you?

      Furthermore, these EX-BNP members are EX BNP as I said. They had joined the BNP some 3 years ago thinking the BNP could change things in this country but they left a few months later because they did not agree with what the BNP stood for. This is why they are EX BNP and not current members. We have NO current BNP members in the leadership. None whatsoever. But in the Jewish Institutions you will find quite a few.

      Thugs? TERRORISTS??? Fascists?? Racists?? WTF are you talking about?

      Prove your words. Prove with names. WHO in the leadership is Fascist, racist or a terrorist?
      WHO has committed ANY terrorist act?

      This is defamation and lies and you know it. If you don’t know it then you are ignorant and have no excuse as there is no excuse for ignorance in this time and date anymore.

      WHO are the EDL leadership you are accusing of all these things? Names please. Let’s see if you can back your claims up.

      Oh and as for being “criminals”, again, not everyone is a criminal, and although there are a few ex-criminals amongst us (most are petty crimes), there are many more in the Jewish community. Are you saying that Jews in England do not commit crimes? That they never went to Prison? That they don’t take drugs?

      Your comments allude to Jews being utterly perfect and pure, while the EDL is ridden with all the bad stuff.

      What a load of bullshit. This is demonization and defamation, not to mention LIES.

      Shame on you. Get your facts right.

      I shall await evidence for your claims on our leadership.

      • I started to write a response to Roberta’s comments, but I decided it is a waste of time to argue with someone who has such little grip on reality and can’t imagine many readers here can take any of those points seriously. Someone that thinks Jonathan Sacks is a leftist linked to the SWP and that Searchlight is pro-Hamas is surely not going to win over many converts here. Anyone who thinks Israel’s cause is helped by the support of people who cannot distinguish between the Board of Deputies and a concentration camp kapo is not going to help Israel’s cause one jot.

  113. I just got so irritated and bored reading this discussion that I now need a peanut butter and yeast extract…..Marmite this time…sandwich with a nice cup of first flush Darjeeling tea while I read another chapter of Ibn Warraq’s Why I am Not a Muslim.

    • roger
      beware – I have at times succumbed to stress eating also – the consequences are tough to get rid off.

      Yeast must be really good for your health. I just remembered that they sell it as pills for probably a lot more than your Marmite costs.

      Here is the expensive version where they avoid the word beer, but that’s what it is – so it’s time to make a fortune introducing Marmite and/or Vegemite into the German market.

      • Marmite helped win the war.

      • Marmite helped win the war.

        for which I am deeply grateful – that you guys pulled that one of, gave me the wonderful life I’ve had so far …

      • And i could never hack it as an authentic binge eater….I have a modicum of respect for my body, which with its innate intelligence, knows there are better ways to get those endorphins flowing though the brain. And for research purposes, I attended a number of Overeaters’ Anonymous 12 step meetings in London, and Marmite never came up. Cheese, chocolate and sausages were favourites.

    • Sharon Klaff

      Enjoy! Might just do the same!!

  114. Roberta Moore

    Bob,

    I quote you:

    [ Anyway, do you prefer the Daily Mail? “A demonstration by far-right group the English Defence League again descended into violence today as extremists began fighting among themselves.”]

    Do you know why we were fighting amongst ourselves? No, of course you don’t. I will tell you though. We found some “nazis” who have been causing us a bit of trouble of late and we kicked them out. Hence the fight. They started to criticize the EDL for its Zionist views, during Tommy’s speech, so he stopped the speech, asked for these low lives to be brought to the front and not only humiliated them but kicked them out. This is not us fighting s with each other but us fighting against those who do not represent us.

    This is why the media plays a dangerous game. They LIE. And in that link you sent, the photo of the woman being arrested, she is UAF, not EDL.
    There was NO VIOLENCE at all against anyone, but a little scrap against these guys. What would you do if you had been infiltrated by Nazis? Welcome them with open arms???

    Judge not least you be judged.
    Oh and those accused of plotting to blow up a mosque… all released without charge. What does that tell you? I guess you are fond of mosques then? Those buildings are used to preach radicalism to our youth and to plot criminal activities in this country. You should read the articles of Andrew Gilligan. Here is one:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100077810/east-london-mosque-keeps-on-lying/

    And perhaps you should watch Dispatches as well, where they have secretly filmed a mosque where teachers and pupils alike abused other pupils.

    Why are you defending buildings of mosques? What do they do for you? I for one would love to see the majority of them closed down as they are terrorist nests.

    As for the third link, am I supposed then to assume you care nothing for this grandmother who got killed by a Muslim driver who had no license to drive?

    Why do you attack us for exposing the truth? Scared of it, are you?

  115. Roberta Moore

    Proof of EDL leadership kicking out the Nazis.

    The video shows members of the EDL pushing the Nazis out.

    The EDL leadership has a SIKH in it as well. Is this RACISM? Every single criticism of the EDL based on: Racism, Fascism, Nazism… FAIL!

    You are all welcome to show me anything in that speech that is racist, fascist or Nazi.

    Get your facts right.

  116. Sharon Klaff

    BobFromBrockly:
    …..Just because you’ve met someone from a party and they seem like the “salt of the earth” means nothing. If you met someone from Hamas or the Nazi party and they seemed nice would not mean we should work with them does it? And what future would Jews have in an England based on Christianity?…..

    The Hamas charter calls for death of all Jews and the destruction of the USA – the epicentre now of Western civilisation. The EDL charter does not call for the death of anyone. So no, not just because one meets people and talks to them, but also because one reads and investigates before commenting.

    When last did the EDL brace their bodies with explosives and walk into restaurants/discos/hospitals etc to kill as many people as possible? When last did EDL even have the audacity discuss the right of another human being to exist, let alone exterminate anybody?

    Agreed nothing is left or right in these matters . However, there are some ethics in the Judeo-Christian civilisation, the cornerstone of Western Civilisation that has brought us freedom and democracy, that has bypassed Hamas in its adherence to a 6th century despotic religion whose aim is a universal caliphate. Its a great pity that the police do not keep tabs on those who propogate Hamas in these sensitve parts of our country you refer to instead of concerning themselves with citizens who wish reinstate democracy rather than accepting them as no go areas for people who do not embrace Islam.

  117. Roberta Moore

    http://daphneanson.blogspot.com/2011/05/demonic-on-campus-british-students-and.html#comment-form

    The Kapos will be having their comeuppance. And I mean, those who continue to insist in “Muslim interfaith dialogues”, such as those from Searchlight, HNH, BOD, ZF, and pretty much most of the mainstream Jewish organizations.

    Don’t say we haven’t warned you. When these Islamofascists supporters come for you, ye KAPOS, do NOT run to the EDL because we will throw you back into the fire that you have created all by yourselves. You shall be left to the crocodiles you are now appeasing.

    • Roberta
      as an instant reaction I like you, actually quite a bit. You come across around here as so vibrant and full of energy and youthful

      …. but I wish you’d stop calling people Kapo

      – the environment/conditions in a concentration camp were so extreme that I find it hard to apply any anywhere else appropriate rules of decent behaviour on those who were in there stripped of all their rights.

      Fear of death even for short moments seem to strip a person of many layers of civilisation, how much more must that apply to constant fear.

      If you need to let off steam go after us Germans, we are drifting in directions where we could do with a bit of getting some correcting lashes.

  118. Roberta Moore

    Silke,

    Thanks for your kind words. :) I use that “Kapo” word because I know it will offend them. The Kapos existed before the concentration camps, and there is no excuse for what they did.

    Those SHIT (Self Hating Israel Threatening) Jews are far worse than Kapos because at least the Kapos had a genuine fear and concern for their families, which justifies (but does not excuse) their behaviour . Those of today have no fear of Islam, they believe they will be tidily looked after as Dhimmis when Islam takes over. What is their excuse to betray us all? Why are they selling us to the Islamofascists?
    We all have a choice.

    Btw, I love the Germans. Many of my best friends are of German descent and live in Germany. I am always visiting Germany to spend time with them.
    I don’t think they deserve any lashes. :P xx

    • Roberta

      When I was your age I might have agreed but believe me you are wrong on the word Kapo and in all likelihood the info that the word existed earlier and in another context is wrong. Anyway that is not the argument.

      I read quite a number of Holocaust survivors saying terrible things about Israel but who am I to judge, if I would have managed to keep my inner compass functioning after that experience. People are granted mitigating circumstances for comparatively nothing in courts (and rightfully so).

      Never trust us Germans – all that reformed sinner stuff they say about us – how you can believe that is beyond me.

      It takes 3 generations to make a lady, well we are just 66 years from our last real real real bad spree and already there is chafing against the chains of decency here and there and everywhere. They still call it Israel-Kritik but it is the same ol’ with only a very thin veneer of paint.

      So my bet would be that we’ll miss the 3 generations mark to rid us of the habit once and for all.

      If I were Jewish I’d probably try to chicken out and make it to Israel. Never mind if it isn’t perfect but it seems honest to me.

      • Roberta Moore

        Silke,

        LOL! I don’t trust anyone, but I cannot hold a whole nation responsible for what happened years ago. And you are right on some “holocaust survivors” who demonize Israel. I believe they do so because they think that Muslims are also victims of the West. They are so wrong!

        But thanks for your advice on the Germans. I know what you are saying.

        Btw, I am sure that even if you are not Jewish you can immigrate to Israel. I can’t see why not.

      • That emigration to Israel is possible for non-Jews I assume. Israel is a normal state after all.

        But by now I am too old to contemplate emigration and when I was young enough I didn’t have the right professional skills.

  119. Roberta Moore

    Bob,

    Thanks for the failure link from the JC. Perhaps you don’t know the story behind this story, hence your silliness in posting it.
    The EDL has never had a problem with the Jewish Division. Those idiotic statements that had appeared in the EDL site (before the leaders noticed) were issued by a Nazi imbecile who was one of the admins of the EDL page, and had access to the website and the means to post this bullshit on the page.

    Once I informed the leaders about these idiotic statements they were deleted immediately. We have never broken ties with the EDL, nor they with us as you can see, otherwise I would not be defending them so vehemently.

    That was a pathetic piece of propaganda and this is what happens when you blindly believe the JC, another leftist and stupid newspapers. Everything in that article is a lie.

  120. Roberta Moore

    Bob,

    Before saying stupid things such as me having no grip on reality, please do the decent thing and address my points and the video I posted if you will.

    Or perhaps you can show me how much grip on reality you have and enlighten me on how to deal with the Islamonazi issue?

    As for my comments, you seem to have missed Ian’s confession that within his group there are pro-Hamas/pro-Fatah supporters. Address that.

    And finally Rabbi Jonathan Sack’s daughter is/was an adviser to Gordon Brown (labour = SWP supporters = trade unions supporters). He is a very good friend of the Archbishop of Canterbury, the same moron who appeases Islam constantly and encourages us to learn Islam. A bloody joke.

    Have you ever heard Jonathan Sacks’ speeches on “interfaith”??

    Saying that Jews, Christians and Muslims are brothers and sisters is a lie. He lies.
    Muslims are not our brothers and sisters, they want to kill us and the Christians. In fact they want to kill every non-Muslim.

    Christians are our brothers and one of the best friends we seem to have, save from the Hindus, Sikhs and others who are also our very good friends.

    • richardmillett

      Roberta, what’s wrong with you? I have very lovely Muslim friends and so do you, I’m sure, and they do not want to kill anyone!
      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

  121. Roberta’s “The Kapos will be having their comeuppance. And I mean, those who continue to insist in “Muslim interfaith dialogues”, such as those from Searchlight, HNH, BOD, ZF, and pretty much most of the mainstream Jewish organizations.”

    Just about says it all.

    An interesting thing is that Roberta has the same aggressive, insulting, incontinent way of going about things as the anti-Israel activists who claim special Jewish authority to promote hatred of Israel. Your good, brave clever Jews insulting and demeaning those inferior Jews again, huh? We’ve got anti-Israel activists referring to their Jewish political opponents as grasping, plotting, self-interested, dishonest. On the other hand, Roberta and the EDL tells those same Jews – Jews they’re presumably trying to recruit – that if they don’t join the movement they’re dumb kappos who deserve their eventual demise. To both groups, Jews are pawns. That’s why as Roberta knows that “mainstream Jews” say no to the EDL, because the EDL can never progress Jewish interests in the UK because Jewish interests are far more similar to Muslim interests than they are different.

  122. Roberta Moore

    Richard,

    You are right. I do have some lovely Muslim friends. But these good people are in extreme minority and I am sure you know this. But what is the point of saying “some” all the time when the majority is evidently against us all, even if they don’t want to kill anyone? They still rejoice when we or the USA are attacked. Right or wrong?

    My Muslim friends know me and know how I feel about Islam. And what’s even better, they feel the same way as I do. Of course I am NOT referring to these good people out there, or the ones who call themselves British Muslims for Israel.
    My words are for the majority not the minority. There are always exceptions in everything.

    I just do not agree they are our brothers and sisters in their majority. Individuals may well be, and I am not going to dispute that.
    Hope that clarifies.

  123. Roberta Moore

    Mira

    I won’t bother to address all your garbage but this is important.
    I quote you:

    [because Jewish interests are far more similar to Muslim interests than they are different.]

    Really? So are you saying that Jews want to impose Kosher food on everyone? Are you claiming Jews want to kill all non-Jews and impose ancient Sanhedrin laws?
    Are you saying that Jews want to force all women to be frum?

    Please elaborate on your point. What Jewish interests and Muslim interests are you talking about? Have you ever in your life read the Quran or the Hadiths?

    • richardmillett

      I’m sorry but you are talking about a small percentage of Muslims. A large number numerically maybe but far, far outnumbered by moderate Muslims who carry out their religion and customs in a totally peaceful nature.

  124. Following up on Bob’s link – Roberta’s political associate, Victor Vancier founder of the inappropriately named Jewish Task Force, is an adherent of the violently Jewish supremacist kahanist ideology. Kahanist politics are banned in Israel and Victor Vancier himself is not permitted to enter the country. That may also be something to with being a convicted terrorist. No wonder the EDL are distancing themselves from Roberta’s people. Hardly anybody wants what they want.

  125. Roberta,

    “Really? So are you saying that Jews want to impose Kosher food on everyone? Are you claiming Jews want to kill all non-Jews and impose ancient Sanhedrin laws? Are you saying that Jews want to force all women to be frum?”

    Nicely framed, Roberta. But no. I have a quran on my bookshelf, but that doesn’t make any point for you. You are drawing gross caricatures of Muslims and Jews.

    Richard, I’ve taken a look at your policy. It says that “incitement to racial hatred must be considered”. Roberta here has incited against Muslims and her Jewish political opponents. Any thoughts on that?

  126. Roberta Moore

    Richard,

    Do you truly and wholeheartedly believe in “moderate” Muslims?
    Do you think the Tariq Ramadan is moderate for example?
    How many moderate Muslims do you know? But let’s say you are right. Let’s say that the “majority” of Muslims is of a moderate nature and just want to carry out their religion and customs in a peaceful nature…

    We have two things resulting from this:

    1. The “minority” that hates us is still a very very big number. Say that there are 1.4 billion Muslims in the world and just 1% of them hate us. I can still make up a very big number out there. A dangerous number.

    2. The “majority” that does not hate us want to continue being Muslims and practising their religion “peacefully”. Ok. So what part of it will they be practising? What are the peaceful things that Islam teaches, where there isn’t a single contradictory verse to come with it?

    Trust me. I am not making this difficult for you, I am just trying to expand on the point you made, which is very much the point of loads of people out there, so it’s important to clarify it.

    Islam is not a peaceful religion. Islam is a political ideology of conquest and submission. Islam believes in the Ummah (A Jewish word at that) and a Caliphate, where Muslims and Non-Muslims will be ruled by Islam and Shariah law.

    Non-Muslims will be dhimmis (those inferior second class citizens that have to pay Jizya – a blood tax – to their Muslim masters, so that they can be left alone. ) – You miss a payment and the Islamic Mafia will come for you.

    But apart from the political ideology even, what does Islam teach? How can one follow it “peacefully” when the verses of their “holy” book is all about violence and violation of Human Rights?

    This is plain wishful thinking if I may say.

    All Muslims, peaceful or not, believe in Muhammad. All of them. And Muhammad was not the best example of peaceful nature.

    • richardmillett

      Those 99 per cent of Muslims, who are moderate, I assume are practising in accordance with peaceful and modern values, rejecting what they might view as outmoded in the Quran.
      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

      • Roberta Moore

        Richard,

        They do not understand what are peaceful and modern values because modernity has yet not reached them. Is Afghanistan modern? How about Saudi Arabia? Iran? Iraq? North Sudan? Lybia? Syria? Fakestine?
        Do these countries have democracy and Human Rights?

        Sorry but you have assumed wrongly. As I said, it’s “wishful thinking” and naive. They do not see any part of the Quran outmoded.
        The majority is in poverty. Mauritania is a slave country. All are slaves to rich Muslims there. The ONLY modern and Israel friendly Muslim country in the world is Azerbaijan. They were Islamized, but they maintained their past culture of peace. Azerbaijan, the winner of the Eurovision song contest. ;)

        Sad but true. Muslims denounce nothing from their Quran.

      • richardmillett

        I’m sure they do denounce parts of the Quran. Not all in those countries are hardcore Islamists. There are many, yes, and they are a major problem, but most Muslims would not want to adhere to some parts of the Quran that seem outmoded.

  127. The last thing I’ll say is that it is nonsensical and prejudiced to judge an entire religion based on your own interpretation of its holy book. As Harry’s Place has pointed out time and time again, this is exactly what Islamists attempt to do – Roberta is asking us to do the same.

    In fact, interpreting the quran is – like the Torah and the New Testament – a work in progress, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7264903.stm

  128. Roberta Moore

    Mira

    [Following up on Bob’s link – Roberta’s political associate, Victor Vancier founder of the inappropriately named Jewish Task Force, is an adherent of the violently Jewish supremacist kahanist ideology.]

    Victor is not my political associate. He is my friend and a man I consider a Hero precisely because of his actions in Russia, actions that saved 1.5 million Jews.
    I do not believe in Jewish supremacy, so I do not adhere by it, neither can I judge those who do, as long as the target they choose for their “supremacist” beliefs are morally and spiritually virtuous.

    [Victor Vancier himself is not permitted to enter the country. That may also be something to with being a convicted terrorist.]

    There are convicted terrorists living in the country. Real terrorists who killed people. Victor never killed anyone. But the actions of your leftist colleagues, ensure that Israel is always the target of their evil.

    [No wonder the EDL are distancing themselves from Roberta’s people.]

    Roberta’s people are the Jewish people, and I do not see the EDL distancing themselves at all, quite the opposite. I am sick of this leftist crap. If I was listening to you I would have to remind you that my ears are not a toilet.

    [Hardly anybody wants what they want].

    And what is it that “they” want? Explain.

    [Nicely framed, Roberta. But no. I have a quran on my bookshelf, but that doesn’t make any point for you. You are drawing gross caricatures of Muslims and Jews.]

    You need to choose your words carefully Mira, because I did not frame you. You did that all by yourself by claiming our interests are the same as the Muslims’ interests. And what would these interests be? I asked you and I am still waiting for an answer. Stop changing the subject and answer it.

    Oh you have a Qu’ran on your bookshelf! And have you READ it? Yes or No?

    [Richard, I’ve taken a look at your policy. It says that “incitement to racial hatred must be considered”. Roberta here has incited against Muslims and her Jewish political opponents. Any thoughts on that?]

    Really? Prove it. Racial hatred is it? When did Islam become a RACE, Mira? Last year?
    And what Jewish political opponents do I have? I do not have a political organization or political interests. I have HUMAN RIGHTS interests.

    Don’t cry to Richard to “get rid of me because you cannot answer my questions”.
    Typical of the left. Cry and run.

  129. Roberta Moore

    Mira

    [The last thing I’ll say is that it is nonsensical and prejudiced to judge an entire religion based on your own interpretation of its holy book.]

    Yes it would be IF I was INTERPRETING the UNHOLY book myself, but I am not. The book has been written for 1,400 years and there is nothing left to be INTERPRETED from it.

    [In fact, interpreting the quran is – like the Torah and the New Testament – a work in progress]

    The Torah is written.
    The Quran is written.

    What INTERPRETATION are you talking about? Can you not read these books and understand them? Can you not understand their messages?
    A work in progress after 1,400 years? LOL!! You believe that, do you? Ludicrous! Listen to yourself.

    [As Harry’s Place has pointed out time and time again, this is exactly what Islamists attempt to do – Roberta is asking us to do the same.]

    What am I asking you to do? Tell us.

  130. OT
    Please can we have more support outside Ahava in two weeks time . Also outside Tesco Metro Covent Garden Bedford Street . It appears that the BDS scum have taken to picketting on a regular basis splitting their time between Ahava and Tesco

    • Roberta Moore

      Harvey,

      Send me the details and I will pass it on.

    • Dear Harvey ,

      Well done to You & Sharon & the other Counter-Demonstators at AHAVA – My train was really late so I turned up at about 13:20 when the BDS extremists were going down to Tesco .

      I went into the shop to buy some AHAVA stuff but You had gone by the time I had got out . I went down to Tesco to see what was happening – The BDS’ers had quite a number of Boycotters & They seemed to look very smug – it would be great if We could manage a good turn out next time . I told the Boycotters that I was going in to buy Israeli products & waved a couple of bags of Jaffas at Them on the way out .

      Thanks for keeping the Flag flying on Saturday .

      Ian .

  131. Ahava usual time 12- 1pm then they pack up and head off to Tesco Metro Bedford Street wc2 . No need for directions ,just follow the slime trail

  132. next one is probably 4th June

  133. Hi Ian
    Dont worry , I had some urgent business which prevented me from getting to Tesco until about 1.30 . Some of the younger air heads including one very abusive chavvy girl tried a half hearted last minute attempt to get into the shop but were slung out by security .
    I can give you some more detailed update but not on open comment board next time at Ahava

  134. Thanks Richard and Mira for weighing in as the voices of sanity, and to Ian for being the voice of sanity from the start!

    • Ian
      has not explained in anything remotely satisfying to me his unconditional support of the Fatah Union.

      My last unanswered question is: what is the status of those Palestinian workers who defied Abbas command and continued to work in the settlements?

      “You” really may be the good ones in this competition but Ian just refusing to give information on the above while promoting an organisation that according to the same Ian just says tiny little bits of hostile stuff about Israel is not really successful PR.

      If a Fatah Union says hostile stuff about Israel that of course must be tolerated because those nice Unionists don’t really mean it or don’t know what they are talking about. An opinion which IMHO is racist.

  135. Bob
    I’m really not sure anymore if Mira is indeed the voice of sanity
    Maybe up to a year or so ago , I firmly believed that the only way forward was a two state solution based on 67 lines
    However I have come to realize from listening to the myriad of viscerally hostile NGOs , Palestinian activists , amnesty , guardian, Bds etc that this is only acceptable as a short term means to an eventual one state solution ie a Palestinian states
    That’s before you get to the Palestinians and the surrounding Arab states
    Two state solution is an illusion and on that basis israel should not relinquish one metre of land
    Maybe it will infuriate potus but with luck he will be a one term lame duck
    Israels long term security and very survival is
    Paramount and outweighs the political expediency of obamas reelection dictat

  136. Michael Goldman

    Gamil
    I don’t understand what your problem is with Roberta.
    Though she obviously has strong Zionist beliefs it just seems that she has stronger patriotic feelings for England and therefore has decided to make her home there rather than in Israel.

  137. Daniel Marks

    Roberta,

    On a serious note I was reading a comment on this excellent blog involving “Kapos” with my 11-year-old son Ariel. He asked me how one Jew could use such a term to describe his brother or sister. I looked into his sweet green eyes and told him that I thank G-d that I was never tried by G-d. I was never tested as were those Jews who in impossible situations did what they could in the desperate hope that by so doing they might be able to survive or protect their families a little longer.

    In the Talmudic we are told “It happened with Rava: A man came to Rava and told him that the governor of the city had ordered that he (the man) slay a certain man or himself suffer death, and Rava said to him: ‘Rather than slay another person, you must permit yourself to be slain, for how do you know that your blood is redder than his, perhaps his blood is redder than yours?'” So that is the ruling, “rather than slay another person, you must permit yourself to be slain”. This applies even if you know that somebody else will do the job anyway, and it even applies if you know that the other person is being offered the same dilemma.

    I have no idea how I would behave in this predicament, nor could anyone who has not been tested. I know that there are too many rabbinic rulings that I do not properly adhere to, and too many universally acknowledged wrong things that I do without anyone holding a pistol to my head or that of my loved ones. If I am to be truthful, I know my ethical limitations and I have my doubts.

    To the best of my knowledge no statistics exist regarding the number of Jews who agreed to be Kapos and those who refused. I believe this is for the best as it is easy to lose sight of the fact that the perpetrators of the Holocaust were the Nazis and their willing non-Jewish collaborators, not the poor wretches who made unbearable decisions in insufferable circumstances. Incidentally, the Kapos were invariably gassed too and without doubt the leader of the Jewish division of the EDL knows that a Jew killed for being Jewish, is deemed a martyr, irrespective of what he or she was during his life.

    There were plenty of holocaust survivors who despised the Kapos and passed terrible judgement on them, there were even cases of them being executed by survivors after the war. That is their prerogative, not ours.

    We are the lucky ones who have, by the mercy of G-d, seen the rebirth of the People of Israel in its land. I told Ariel that we are bound by the words of Hillel:

    “Do not believe in yourself until the day you die. Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place.”

    • On a serious note I was reading a comment on this excellent blog involving “Kapos” with my 11-year-old son Ariel. He asked me how one Jew could use such a term to describe his brother or sister.

      And then you go on to point out that “Kapo” is indeed the term of contempt used by holocaust survivors for their “brothers and sisters”, and that these survivors not only derided these Kapos, but were involved in the summary execution of these “brothers and sisters”! I hope you told that to your son, so that he actually got a full understanding as to why one jew might call your jewicidal brothers and sisters “Kapos”.

      The anti-semitic Hizb ut Tahrir has been allowed to peddle its anti-semitic and fascist filth in the UK for 26 years, without a whimper from “Searchlight”, the supposed defender of jews. Statistics show that muslims are disproportionately identified in anti-semitic attacks in London (which level every year is at a new all-time high): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7831897.stm Tony Blair said he’d ban HuT, Cameron said they were Nazis and would ban them. But nothing has been done. And instead of joining with the forces that are opposed to nazism and islamo-fascism (like the EDL), most of the jews of Britain keep quiet.

      Whilst the jews and liberal lefties at Harry’s Place were wringing their hands about the anti-semitic muslims who were going to appear at The Troxy in June 2009 (http://hurryupharry.org/2010/05/17/poxy-preachers-at-the-troxy-bilal-philips-and-hussein-yee/), it was EDL who got that event cancelled — forcing The Troxy to shut its doors to any future Hizb ut Tahrir conferences there. Whilst the jews and liberal lefties were complaining about the anti-semitic, pro-terrorist Zakir Naik coming to Britain to address 3 rallies in football stadiums that seated 10,000 islamo-nazis, it was the threat of EDL demos outside these venues that got Zakir Naik banned from Britain: http://www.hudson-ny.org/1392/india-dr-zakir-naik

      EDL has made it clear that it is committed to supporting jews and Israel, and as the police experts have confirmed, it is not a far-right group. Yet lots of liberal jews would actually prefer to see a strong neo-Nazi movement rise up in Britain, instead of support the working class Britons take on the fight against islamo-fascism, a fight that neither Searchlight, Hope Note Hate, UAF, the Labour government, nor the Coalition government will take on.

      • Brilliantly said, James!
        It just proves my point that Searchlight, HNH, UAF, UJS, BOD, and all the rest of the “mainstream Jewish community” does NOT have what it takes to take on this fight.

        Funny that on that June in 2009 when we cancelled the Troxy event, the Jewish Division was not even 1 month old and look at what we have already achieved. Troxy cancelled, Hilton Metropole conference cancelled half way through (when we go there in time to stop the hundreds of Muslims coming in, standing in the cold and pouring rain until our job was done), Wembley Zakir Naik cancelled…. and much more than that.

        And these irrational leftist twats attack the EDL while working with organizations that support Fatah, Hamas and Israeli boycotts. Unbelievable!! There is absolutely no leadership in the Jewish community. Our students have become weaker and forgot how to feel proud of who and what they are, and they SUBMIT to Muslim bullying at colleges. How pathetic!! Seriously pathetic.
        I blame these leftist/communist idiots who keep on misinforming our youth and encoraging (more like bullying ) them to have “interfaith” dialogues. Disgusting!!!
        Only idiots have “dialogues” with the enemy who wants to kill them. And it seems we have quite an infestation of these around…

    • Daniel,

      [Incidentally, the Kapos were invariably gassed too]

      That’s precisely what I want them to know and understand.
      As I said, the Kapos from before had genuine reasons to fear for their lives, those of today do not as much, at least they are not in any immediate danger. They are just purely idiotic or at worst EVIL for betraying us.

      • Roberta

        human nature functioning the way it does every time you say Kapo you cause pain to those who are survivors or who due to being their children grew up too close to all that suffering.

        It is a cheap and hurting the wrong people also gimmick to get at somebody and I think you could do better than that.

        There is an International Two-Letter-Code denominating countries. When the SU=Soviet Union broke apart, lots of new codes were needed and Kasachstan was named KZ. There were protests in the small circle of professionals who uses these codes because it was considered insensitive to Holocaust survivors.

        My own experience has taught me that horror memories are easily triggered by almost nothing and I think the people who objected (unsuccessfully) to KZ were the ones who got it right.

      • “human nature functioning the way it does every time you say Kapo you cause pain to those who are survivors or who due to being their children grew up too close to all that suffering.”

        Kindly don’t speak for me, Silke, nor decide for me whether or not I feel pain. It is the height of arrogance. Are you the child of a Holocaust survivor? I am. And I applaud Roberta for using the word ‘kapo’ where it fits perfectly, it is neither ‘cheap’ nor anything of the kind, we are witnessing the rise of the new Nazism, so I hope she continues doing so and I will, too.

        Excellent post, Roberta, and a superb one by James.

      • No Leah

        as I said before I am German German but in the 70s I worked in Personnel and lots of the American Expatriates then in their fifties I had to take care of happened to have been German. That’s why they were chosen for the job, because they spoke the language.

        They taught me some rules of behaviour by which I abide to this day.

        My error may have been that Jew-on-Jew language is different and works by different rules.

        That maybe so but I reserve the right to wince every time kids of survivors find it necessary to inflict unnecessary and leading to no good results pain on eachother instead of trying their very best to build a unified something.

    • Shalom Daniel,

      You are a very nice guy you know? But I will not be as forgiving as you are, because forgiveness should only be used for those who are truly regretful of their actions. Communists, Socialists and Islamofascists are NOT.

      [“Do not believe in yourself until the day you die. Do not judge your fellow until you have stood in his place.”]

      When I die, my brain will stop and I won’t have the chance to believe or disbelieve in anything. And even if I did, it would be too late ;)

      I am not “judging” anyone. I am just criticising their stupidity.

    • Thank you Daniel!

  138. Roberta, do you have any idea, any insight into the way in which you come across?

    Calling people “kapos” or “morons” and peppering your posts with epithets doesn’t endear your cause to me (and I have only just “met” you) and is very poor debating style.

    Now I don’t really care about the power struggles within the EDL, nor much about the EDL itself, but I do feel distinctly uncomfortable that you are on the record in perpetuity in the way that you are.

    Can’t you tone it down?

    • Babs,

      If this is all you are complaining about, how about addressing my points first? Then we can discuss the way I debate with people.
      Thanks

  139. Funny to see that neither Bob, Mira or Ian have been capable so far to answer a single one of my questions or any other questions put to them. Ran away with the excuse of “not wanting to debate” with me. Pathetic.
    Typical leftist behaviour. As I said, you cannot reason with communists.

  140. Daniel Marks

    Hi Roberta,

    Unfortunately, your criticism of the Babs of this world is not without foundation. In an early page on this excellent blog I raised existential questions about the future of Anglo Jewry and was told that I am very “condescending” (true but irrelevant).

    You will notice that I have been arguing for cooperation between the Jewish community and the EDL on this blog and others in countless posts for ten months.

    http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/the-battle-of-monmouth-street/#comment-2734

    http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2010/08/more-attacks-on-freedom-of-speech-for.html?showComment=1282595164037#c1700837775320881073

    I have been attacked personally for doing so by both “friends” and foe, but I have remained unrepentant for this view, indeed I still believe that in the battle against Islamic fundamentalist Jew hatred in the UK there is no more natural ally than proud, decent, patriotic Englishmen.

    My great-grandfather, after whom I am named, was murdered in a Nazi death camp. I know nothing of the circumstances of his murder or whether Jewish Kapo police were involved. You accredit me with having forgiven them, but the truth is that I have no right to absolve anyone, never have and never will. My simple point was that I honestly do not know what I and my family were about to be murdered and I were told that I could save them by committing immoral acts. Do you know what you would do Roberta? Pause Roberta, close your eyes or look into those of your children, imagine the situation, then answer.

    Now I have something very serious to say Roberta, but I say it with love. You are a Jew and I must love you as myself. For that reason I will be quite candid. Every time you nonchalantly pronounce other Jewish people to be Kapos you plunge a knife into my old heart. You cheapen the Holocaust turning everyone who doesn’t agree with you; Jewish rabbis, students, community leaders all into Hitler’s collaborators. After all if all Anglo-Jewry are Nazi Quislings who can blame the Germans for what they did?

    We can disagree with our opponents without dehumanizing them. We can tear their arguments to shreds without tearing them to shreds. They are our brothers and sisters, maybe wrong, maybe tragically wrong, but they are Am Yisrael and when we sing Am Yisrael Hai (The People of Israel live) it’s them that we’re singing of.

    Roberta, I am not asking you to amend any of your political views. Maybe we’ll talk more and you’ll change my mind, who knows? Perhaps I’ll change yours. Hey, maybe we’ll discover that we already agree. I am, however, asking you to please stop using that word.

  141. Roberta Moore

    Silke,

    I know the word Kapo is insulting, this is why I use it. Rather that than swear words…
    I wouldn’t have to use it if people were more respectful towards the EDL, the only friend us Jews seem to have over here. When people call us Nazis, Racists, White supremacists, etc.. they are insulting me directly, so I will insult them back with the words they hate most.

    If they quit the bullshit I will do so also, with pleasure.
    x

    • Roberta
      I also love to insult back but there are limits – I don’t insult people with words that hurt the victims of concentration camps and I guess I’d refuse to do so, even if I weren’t German.

      Why you don’t see the difference between those who became perpetrators of their own free will i.e. with the possibility to turn around and leave and those who had to live amidst the unimaginable I don’t understand.

      • Roberta Moore

        Silke,

        I am not insulting Holocaust survivors, nor do I have any intention of doing so. It should be pretty obvious why I am calling them what I do.

        Those I have called Kapos have not been victims of concentration camps.

        [Why you don’t see the difference between those who became perpetrators of their own free will i.e. with the possibility to turn around and leave and those who had to live amidst the unimaginable I don’t understand.]

        I DO see the difference of course! So what word would you suggest I should use instead, bearing in mind that I want it to have the same effect?

      • Roberta

        Based on my current knowledge I like dhimmi quite a bit and since “oriental” Israeli Jews seem to like it also, I use it.

        But having never lived in an Anglo-country I am a bit deficient on good swear words.

        Now if you’d ask me for German stuff ;-)

  142. Roberta Moore

    Daniel,

    I am sorry I do not post replies in blogs as often as I would like. This is perhaps the first time ever that I spend 4 days writing here in this blog, and I am only doing so because I think it’s important to fight our corner. I am sick and tired of “Jews” criticising us with baseless points and stuff that happened 2 years ago FFS!

    Have these people no brain or eyes to see the reality around them? It’s extremely frustrating that I have to fight with our own to get the point across.

    I am pleased that at least you have sense and have been trying to get the community to join us. They seem to forget that we go to the same shuls they go, we live in the same area they do, at least loads of our Jdiv guys do and some others too.

    I will read the links you posted after I post this.

    [I have been attacked personally for doing so by both “friends” and foe, but I have remained unrepentant for this view, indeed I still believe that in the battle against Islamic fundamentalist Jew hatred in the UK there is no more natural ally than proud, decent, patriotic Englishmen.]

    Ditto.

    [My great-grandfather, after whom I am named, was murdered in a Nazi death camp. I know nothing of the circumstances of his murder or whether Jewish Kapo police were involved. You accredit me with having forgiven them, but the truth is that I have no right to absolve anyone, never have and never will. My simple point was that I honestly do not know what I and my family were about to be murdered and I were told that I could save them by committing immoral acts. Do you know what you would do Roberta? Pause Roberta, close your eyes or look into those of your children, imagine the situation, then answer.]

    Yes I know what I would do, but many of you would not like to hear it. But that’s just me.

    On another note, do you know what Indian Sikhs did during the Muslim invasion? They knew their women and children would be raped and enslaved, so they called all their females over and beheaded them with their consent. Then they killed themselves.

    Jews during the Nazi attacks, before the concentration camps, were also taking cyanide. Rather die than give the invaders the pleasure of murdering us. Of course, people are different and we all have a choice. It’s up to us to choose whatever we feel more viable.

    [Every time you nonchalantly pronounce other Jewish people to be Kapos you plunge a knife into my old heart.]

    Why? You are no Kapo, Daniel.

    [You cheapen the Holocaust turning everyone who doesn’t agree with you; Jewish rabbis, students, community leaders all into Hitler’s collaborators.]

    It’s not because they don’t agree with me (I never spoke to many of them, thank G-d!) but because they are working with and for the enemy. What better word do you know for these people?

    [After all if all Anglo-Jewry are Nazi Quislings who can blame the Germans for what they did?]

    If all Anglo Jewry were… but they are not. Not all thankfully. But those I know I can speak about, right? Those who work with groups that promote dialogue with Hamas and Fatah are. Those who support groups that boycott Israel are.

    Let them hurt. Perhaps they will have an epiphany one day….

    [We can disagree with our opponents without dehumanizing them.]

    I am not dehumanizing them, I just think they need to be told that their actions are the same as those Kapos. Their actions are dangerous to all Zionists and decent Jews out there. They put Israel in a very very dangerous position. I despise those who do that.

    [We can tear their arguments to shreds without tearing them to shreds. They are our brothers and sisters, maybe wrong, maybe tragically wrong, but they are Am Yisrael and when we sing Am Yisrael Hai (The People of Israel live) it’s them that we’re singing of.]

    I know you are right, Daniel. I do.
    But I do not wish to spend hours here trashing their arguments because I have to work all day and I mean all day. These last 4 days I spent here debating have delayed my EDL work big time. I wished I could say things once and leave it at that, as after all Jews are reputable for being clever and intelligent. Shame some have missed this genetic evolution.

    [Roberta, I am not asking you to amend any of your political views. Maybe we’ll talk more and you’ll change my mind, who knows? Perhaps I’ll change yours. Hey, maybe we’ll discover that we already agree. I am, however, asking you to please stop using that word.]

    Ok. But only because you asked me nicely. Well, you and Silke actually. And I like both of you.

    Let’s just hope the guilty ones do not start calling us racists, fascists or nazis again, otherwise….

    • Daniel Marks

      Take care Roberta. Next time you’re in Israel, come and visit.

      • Roberta Moore

        Will be there soon. Bringing some EDL with me, to meet up with our friends the Zion Fighters.
        But I won’t post details online. If you email me I will surely visit you be’ezrat ha’shem.

        Take care.

  143. Roberta Moore

    By the way, I just want to say that I was at the demo against the Amnesty International today, and I saw Richard, Ian, Jonathan, and a few others there.

    I wanted to say well done to all of the people who turned up today, principally to Jonathan who bravely picked up the megaphone and spoke.
    I did feel proud of them today, including Ian whom I have insulted (because of the things he said about us). But at least he showed up today, regardless of his connections with the groups that demonize Israel.

    I was thinking about apologising to him personally for insulting him here, but I kept thinking of how he was still attempting to convince others not to join us in this common cause, so I was torn.

    So now that I had my nice Calypso coffee and relaxed a bit, and also because of the nice words said by Silke, Daniel and others, I WILL apologise to Ian for insulting him.
    _________________________

    IAN, I am sorry I insulted you in the manner I did. It was really quite harsh of me and I know that. I did feel bad about the words I used towards you. Daniel is right. I shouldn’t have attacked you personally and for that I am truly sorry. I am not asking for forgiveness, I just want you to know that I feel bad for saying those things to you.

    BUT, I would ask you to think carefully about the groups you are part of and the people you are supporting.

    It confuses me and infuriates me the fact tha a “Zionist” like you are working with communists and socialists who hate Israel and Jews. I don’t know why you are doing it, and I don’t think you are in any mortal danger to take such paths, so I strongly advise you to think very carefully about who your friends are.

    Once again, I am sorry to have hurt you. I know I did. And I did mean to at the time, but I don’t mean it now.

    Roberta

    • thanks Roberta!

      what on earth is Calypso coffee?

      coffee with Marmite? ;-)

    • Dear Roberta ,

      Thankyou for Your post .

      Many of us have all said harsh things about each other over the last few days – it was never My intention to insult You personally & I am sorry if You thought that I wanted to be disrespectful to You – I guess that nobody has all the answers politically & We should all listen with respect to what the other has to say .

      You & I ( and Your collegues & mine ) were all standing up & defending Israel at the AI/MEMO event tonight – this is the sort of positive work for Zionism that I want to concentrate on promoting . Lets try to draw a line on the more controversial arguments .

      Ian .

  144. Roberta Moore

    Silke,

    LOL!! Ok. Dhimmi it is. Can I say Dhimmiwit? ;)

    Calypso coffee is black coffee with Tia Maria Liquor and cream on top.

    Check in google. It’s delicious! And for the record, I hate marmite. Horrible stuff.

  145. Ian and Roberta you have just both chocked me! Bravo.

    We can be VERY angry, even livid with each other but please please let us not hate each other. I love all of my tribe! ALL. Even those who really piss me off. (Silke you know I love you too!)

    Well done to ALL who went to defend Israel against Amnesty’s disgusting sponsoring of this genocidal NGO. Less talk more action!

    Richard I prayed that you made it out alive and await your piece on today’s indoor hatefest. I understand Christian was quite upset with the demonstration. Tut tut.

  146. Roberta Moore,

    When a not insignificant co-religionist declared: “Blessed are the peacemakers,” he could hardly have known that two thousand years later, a flamboyant Maale Adumim settler would be worthy of that blessing.

    I can only but echo Jesus’ praise for Daniel Marks and publicly wish him a Happy 50th birthday tomorrow.

    Of late I have had neither the time nor the inclination to contribute to this excellent blog but my occasional observations have left me revolted by your tone, turn of phrase, and inner anger.

    Your “cheapening of the Holocaust” with your senseless “Kapo” charges, were all the more abhorrent since I believe that politically and historically you are spot on, – and that the weight of fact and reason is clearly on your side.

    You mirror that same indefatigable passion and love of your people that inspired our Aliya all those years ago, but your loathsome vocal revulsion for the Chief Rabbi, The Board of Deputies, and the Zionist Federation and many other groups and individuals, with whom you are not in agreement, also cheapens yourself.

    Your hate-filled tirades left me wondering whether it is better to be wrong but at peace with oneself or to be correct and true but consumed with eternal infernal anger. This Matrix dilemma is a tough one, yet Daniel, Richard and many other people of standing, have shown that one can be true and correct while at the same time civil and at peace.

    Rightly or wrongly, some have associated your spouts of anger with your EDL companions. I am so pleased you have agreed to disassociate yourself with that type of offensive vernacular and adopt a more civil tongue, and I look forward to respectful debate and dialogue, but moreover to the fullest expression of your passion with your homecoming back to Israel bekarov beyamenu, amen ve-emen.

    • Daniel Marks

      There is no more wonderful birthday present than the love of the Jewish People for each other. Not because we in agreement about everything, but despite the fact that we rarely agree about anything.

      If there is anything that every Muslim and Christian shall learn from us, let it be that.

    • thanks Nick for giving the great secret away – I think I’ll treat myself to the most exquisite piccolo of bubbly I can find to toast to the event.

      ———

      For me once credible and obviously sincere apologies have been exchanged the subject is closed and should remain so.
      If I were to be lectured afterwards I wouldn’t like that one bit.

  147. Roberta Moore

    We were asked not to bring the EDL to yesterday’s demo and we didn’t. Had to message them at the last minute, but in my opinion we could have done with having them there.

    I think that we should change our strategies in these demonstrations. We are far too passive (I mean the Jewish community), and no one pays attention to such passiveness.

    Have you ever wondered why the Muslims are successful in what they do? It’s because they use aggressiveness and violence.

    I am not saying we should use violence but we should be in the same aggressive mind frame and be very assertive. We should not ask groups to cancel events, we should demand.

    There is a war technique that we must apply so that it maximises our chances of being taken seriously. We must stop being so passive.

    I want us to destroy the Amalekites just as G-d ordered us to do then.

    “The LORD said to Moses, “Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”
    Moses built an altar and called it The LORD is my Banner. He said, “For hands were lifted up to the throne of the LORD. The LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation.” (Ex 17:14-16)

    G-d made us destroy the Amalekites not because of “revenge” but of “punishment” for an unrepentant nation. Muslims are that unrepentant nation. The Cult of Islam has the power to turn normal human beings into beasts, the evidence is all around.

    Everyone has a choice and these people made their choice to hate us all. We must take this seriously and cut the evil by the root or we may well have a second Holocaust. What would you prefer? To fight now or try to escape a second holocaust? I personally think prevention is better than cure. Sometimes you cannot get a cure…

    We must organise ourselves. Our message must be consistent and strong. We must target the enemy and call it by its name. If we don’t, we will lose this war.

    Jews don’t lose wars. So we must get organised. I suggest we hold a meeting amongst ourselves to address these issues and the strategies.

    I am part of several counter-Jihad groups and we have bi-weekly and monthly meetings to do this. I am sure that the Jewish community can also do this, and learn from our experiences.

  148. Roberta Moore

    Dear Ian,

    I am glad both our apologies are accepted. :)
    And I am also glad that you want to focus on strengthening our position. So let’s do it. Let us all have a meeting, so that we can sit down and discuss our strategies. I have the support from Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Elisabeth Sabbaditsch, Geert Wilders, etc.. we can win this fight if we get organised.

    Let’s get a venue, and a few of us can meet up to discuss how to act. I don’t need to involve the rest of the EDL in these meetings, but the truth is we must all work together. Their fight is our fight. Their message is our message.

    Shall we start organising ourselves? We have no time to lose, believe me. In 25 years from now, England will be Islamised by sheer majority, and if they use our democratic rights to remove our democratic rights we are all on the path to a second Holocaust. Listen to the voices of the past to learn the future.

    We must fight now. Peace will come to our future generations if we deal with the issue now. We can do it.

    • richardmillett

      How will we be Islamised in 25 years time? There are at the moment about 3 million British Muslims out of a population of 60 million. It’s numerically impossible.
      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

      • Richard

        I don’t know the percentage of Alawites in Syria when they started aiming for rulership. Neither do I know what the ratio was for Sunni vs. Shia in Iraq but it has happened in history more than once that determined outsiders got hold of the levers of power.

        And yes I agree that we should find other words for bashing purposes than Islam. I am also for finding a replacement for Islamist because it is way too close to Islam to not be confused and yes there are decent everyday pious Muslims and I don’t want to hurt their feelings or alienate them.

        On the other hand:

        wasn’t it the spirit of trying not to alienate all Germans which made the 1936 Olympics such an event. If I had been a simple unaligned personal at the time I would have gotten the signal that if all the world considers these Nazis fit for polite company there must be something wrong with my gut uneasyness about them.

      • Don’t spoil the party Richard, we shouldn’t let a small fact like that get in the way of Roberta’s master plan.

      • Richard,

        I cannot find the video I wanted to show you right now. But I will search for it. Meanwhile I am sending you a list of the videos found under Islamisation of Europe, so that you can understand what I am talking about.

        http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=islamisation+of+europe+you+tube&hl=en&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=0ZnbTdqpAcybhQeCktS2Dw&ved=0CC0QqwQ&biw=889&bih=393

        It is not numerically impossible and I will explain why. There are several factors about this issue.

        1. Muslims immigrate here with their several wives. (Many have over 3 wives). Although polygamy is forbidden in this country, it is NOT (I repeat, NOT) forbidden for Muslims, and they claim benefits for all these wives. Then they go on to have several children each.. and so on.

        2. Muslims send their daughters to marry Pakistanis/Bangladeshis, etc.. then they return to Britain with their families, including aunts, grandmothers, etc.. (Yes it happens and they do get permission to bring their families here)

        3. When Muslims get to become 20% of the population, they will cause the same problems here as they cause in the countries they are already in numbers varying btw 10% – 25%. All hell will break lose. Want an example? The City of Malmo in Sweden. Another? The suburbs of Paris. There are hundreds of these to be honest. They will use our democratic rights to vote against democracy, and to place their own people in power.

        I would prefer to have a meeting with you all to explain these very serious issues and what it truly means to our small Jewish communities in this country. It’s not a very pretty picture I can tell you.

        Listen to Melanie Philips, Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Mr. Alan West, Ms. Wafa Sultan, Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina, Salman Rushdie, etc… there are hundreds of our counter Jihad people out there. We are constantly in world conferences debating these issues and teaching people of the dangers of Islam.

        I am not lying or exaggerating. Please pay attention. This is very serious and we should never underestimate our enemy. Maths means NOTHING. China has taken Tibet by population transfers. These people can and will do the same if they are not stopped NOW. Put them in power and the door to unlimmited immigration from Islamic countries will be forever open.

  149. Roberta Moore

    Nick,

    Thanks for your post.

    [You mirror that same indefatigable passion and love of your people that inspired our Aliya all those years ago, but your loathsome vocal revulsion for the Chief Rabbi, The Board of Deputies, and the Zionist Federation and many other groups and individuals, with whom you are not in agreement, also cheapens yourself.]

    Maybe so, but I am right.

    [Your hate-filled tirades left me wondering whether it is better to be wrong but at peace with oneself or to be correct and true but consumed with eternal infernal anger. This Matrix dilemma is a tough one, yet Daniel, Richard and many other people of standing, have shown that one can be true and correct while at the same time civil and at peace.]

    We are not at peace. This peace is an illusion. We cannot fight bestial enemies with a peaceful heart. We must feel the anger for anger is what moves you to fight. Peace does not. Peace shall come thereafter.
    Rightly or wrongly, some have associated your spouts of anger with your EDL companions. I am so pleased you have agreed to disassociate yourself with that type of offensive vernacular and adopt a more civil tongue, and I look forward to respectful debate and dialogue, but moreover to the fullest expression of your passion with your homecoming back to Israel bekarov beyamenu, amen ve-emen.]
    :) Amen to that!

    [

  150. Unfortunately I have only had time to visit here sporadically and I’m surprised to find it’s still generating comments . 315 and counting must be a record Richard
    For the record I am also in agreement that the term kapo should not be used to describe the various ” as a Jew factions ” that pollute our people
    The Jews of the holocaust who sought to save their lives and perhaps their relatives are very different from the Jews who stand shoulder to shoulder with those who would plot and undertake a new holocaust given the merest chance. These people are under no compunction to behave as they do and do so of their own volition
    Thinking about it , these individuals are far worse then the so called kapos of the holocaust
    Each of us I’m sure has had the opportunity of observing these people and I come away with the impression that they are even more zealous in what appears to be a pathological hatred for israel , then their Christian and Muslim counterparts . There have been numerous articles examining their motives but there is no clear definition as to why they should feel compelled to behave as they do
    What is the catalyst for someone like Adam Shapiro co founder of the ISM and affiliate of Hamas
    Perhaps it may sound contradictory to then say I admire the full on ballsy approach of Roberta but I do
    Jews tend to keep their heads down
    It’s our nice middle class assimilated, yet conscious of our difference , character which prohibits us getting up close and personal with our enemies . There are exceptions to the rule Jonathan , Richard , Roberta and others and we need that balance of BoD / committee / bicom etc coupled with absolute front line activists who are not afraid to confront these bullies on their own terms . It surprises them like it surprised the nazis . Jews don’t fight back in that way
    Roberta reminds me of one of the bialski brothers in defiance – the red mist descending one
    Good for her ! I don’t know too much about the EDL and if you are still here Roberta figure you could go it alone if you were of a mind to
    It’s time to give it back to them 10 fold let them know we are there at their quacker / methodist meetings . Their AI soiree and their university hate fests etc etc
    The next ahava / tesco boycott and counter boycott is likely to be on the 4th June
    Please endeavour to be there

    • Harvey and all,

      [Thinking about it , these individuals are far worse then the so called kapos of the holocaust]

      I agree totally. This is what I was trying to explain to everyone. Kapos had a reason to do what they did, but these guys are just self hating…

      [There have been numerous articles examining their motives but there is no clear definition as to why they should feel compelled to behave as they do]

      I have spent years trying to figure it out but I will not bother again. None of us should. Why should we waste our time “understanding” their reasons? Sod them. They are like this and we must deal with them, not waste time wondering why why or why. It doesn’t matter why. What matters is that they should no longer be given ANY platform to spew their hate.

      [Jews tend to keep their heads down] – Correct. They expect the problem to go away. It won’t. Time to lift our heads up, high and proud and FIGHT.

      [There are exceptions to the rule Jonathan , Richard , Roberta and others and we need that balance of BoD / committee / bicom etc coupled with absolute front line activists who are not afraid to confront these bullies on their own terms .]

      Harvey, we need to clean up the BoD first. We need to clean up the UJS, and the ZF first. Each of us must start working to:

      1. Identify the dhimmi Jew
      2. Obtain support for his/her removal
      3. Retake our fight properly

      The EDL is not afraid to face the bullies. We will physically fight if we have to. I understand this is a weakness in the Jewish community, but I don’t understand why. Some of us are ex-forces, Krav Maga experts, Martial arts experts, etc.. why the fear? The EDL are brave. We should be like them.

      We love getting close and personal with our enemy. We love putting them on their place. We must show them that if you attack one of us, you attack all of us. UNITY is the key. Work with the EDL instead of against. We can and will defend one another. We have the street armies, we have experts in the fields of Islam and Law. We have many people who are very useful in this fight, and we have international support.

      If the Jewish community works with the EDL instead of against us, we will be a mighty force, one that the Muslims will be extremely afraid of. The communists and socialists, as well as Muslims want teh Jews to hate the EDL. They want to split our forces. They HATE the fact we are not racist, that we have Jews, Sikhs, Pakistani Christians, etc in our ranks. They hate that we have black, brown, chinese, Indians, Portuguese, Spanish, Polish, Germans, etc.. in our ranks. They hate it. This is why they invent lies and try to destroy us. We are not saints. Never said we were, and that’s how I like it. If you have to fight in a war, you cannot be one.

      A few months ago, it was the EDL and Casuals united who confronted the fascists from Halifax during a pro-Palestinian event (Discover Palestine it was called). Not the JEWS. I got emails from our supporters showing me the emails they sent to Calderdale Council (See in this link) – I posted it for all to see.

      http://edl-englishdefenceleague.blogspot.com/2011/04/email-from-one-of-our-supporters-to.html

      You got to believe me when I say that we have resources, we have willing people, we have Nazi hunters, we have a whole infrastructure which we use to make things work, and we get results.

      Let’s join forces. Stop listening to the leftists, and to others who want to demonize us and split our loyalties. STOP. We MUST unite. And we are running out of time…

  151. That should have been Quaker – vagaries of predictive texting – but actually quackers is better

  152. Just never forget: ALL Muslims believe in Muhammad.
    Know Muhammad. Know your enemy.
    There is no such thing as a pious or moderate peaceful Muslim. You are either a Muslim or you are not. Muslims who believe in Muhammad are NOT peaceful or moderate. Apostates of Islam hate Islam. Ever wondered why? Listen to Wafa Sultan (You tube. Google for her).

    • no Roberta that isn’t true and it doesn’t sync with the mostly Turkish Muslims I knew – one as I said before a lovely married couple who cleaned toilets in our office at night for some extra money.

      I feel protective of those people and I don’t want to see them hurt. I haven’t yet solved the problem how to be outspoken without hurting them but I owe them the same courtesy they gave me.

      • What isn’t true? That all Muslims believe in Muhammad or that there are moderate Muslims?

        Silke, have you ever heard of Taqiyya?
        While bearing in mind all generalisations have exceptions, please note that Muslims are ORDERED by ALLAH to use Taqiyya.

        http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/65699

  153. Daniel Marks,

    Yom huledet sameach ad 120! Mazal tov!! Hope you live a very long life and remain strong to keep the Amalekites out of our land. ;)

  154. Roberta

    there are decent Muslims – they are humans, so probability has it that they come in all variations just like the rest of us

    – if they are moderates or ultra-pious, who cares as long as they are decent and neighbours who behave well.

    Now don’t tell me Robert Satloff is a dhimmi – I’ve heard and read enough by him and about him to feel sure he isn’t.

    • Silke,

      I don’t actually know Robert Satloff and never read this book, so I cannot comment.
      I reiterate, there are always exceptions to the rule. Always good ones amongst bad ones. But these are small details which are obvious.
      We need to focus on the main issue. And it’s not because there are 1,000,000 good Muslims amongst 1.3 billion of bad ones that we should not address the issue.

  155. Daniel Marks

    Hi Roberta,

    Thanks for the kind wishes and also the warning! I’ll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for any Amalakites. I have a bus load of German dignitaries visiting tomorrow, but I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. Besides, I would hardly commit mass murder on my birthday – that’s just the way I was brought up.

    We’d love to entertain you and your EDL friends, I’m guessing that none of you are vegetarians, but if you are tell me in advance.

    My email is danielmarks@walla.com

    Take care,

    Daniel

  156. Roberta Moore

    Daniel,

    Mass murder?? LOL!! Ok, not on your birthday then.. wait for later. ;)

    Thank you very much for your kind invitation. None of us are vegetarian and none of us are Kosher, so you can relax. I haven’t planned the itinerary yet but we will definitely enter “dangerous” territory singing: Whose country? OUR country! Whose streets? OUR streets! ;)

    Thanks for your email which I have saved now. Will drop you a line as soon as possible.

    Once again Yom huledet sameach!! Have a great day with lots of ugot!

    Rob