Israel’s “beautiful resistance” to suicide bombers: A response to St James’s Church Rector Lucy Winkett

St James’s Church’s Rector Lucy Winkett’s defence of her church’s installation of a replica of Israel’s security wall in a piece for The Guardian is a legal and moral failure.

First the legal side. She states that Israel’s wall is “illegal under international law”. It is incredible that so many non-lawyers (and a few actual lawyers) state this with such ease when there is little proper evidence of such “illegality”.

Rector Winkett is relying on the 2004 Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice. A frame repeatedly projected on to St James’s Church’s replica wall states “In 2004, the International Court of Justice in The Hague stated the Wall was illegal and it should be dismantled.”

But an advisory opinion is just that; advisory and an opinion. It sets no legal precedent.

Even if Israel’s wall was “illegal” there is the legal argument of self-defence. If I used illegal means to stop someone killing me I would be guilty of nothing more than self-defence. In parallel with this Israel’s wall has stopped Palestinian suicide bombers killing Israeli civilians.

There are legal opinions for and against Israel’s security wall, but for Rector Winkett to declare the wall “illegal under international law” makes a mockery of her claim in The Guardian that “we are not ‘pro’ one side or another”.

On the moral side Rector Winkett derides as “irresponsible” those who claim “we are aligning ourselves with those who support the Holocaust, suicide bombings or that we are antisemitic”.

But Rector Winkett’s wish for Israel’s security wall to come down will encourage suicide bombers sent by the likes of Islamist terror group Hamas to resume their murder of Israeli civilians, including those living on the West Bank, which the building of the wall has successfully disrupted.

The Hamas Charter specifically calls for the murder of Jews, so, yes, Hamas does support the Holocaust, suicide bombings and is blatantly antisemitic.

And then there are the organisations that St James’s Church has expressly aligned itself with for Bethlehem Unwrapped.

Rector Winkett writes that St James’s is supporting “a peaceful Palestinian principle known as ‘beautiful resistance’; expressed in theatres, music projects…”.

Sami Awad, director of the Holy Land Trust, might believe in “beautiful resistance” but that doesn’t exclude a belief in violence. Awad is on record as saying that such non-violent resistance “is not a substitute for the armed struggle.”

Incidentally, all net proceeds from Bethlehem Unwrapped go to the Holy Land Trust. (That is should there be any net proceeds, the cost of the 12 day replica wall installation being an incredible £30,000.)

Meanwhile, recent news footage shows Interpal’s primary trustee Essam Mustafa with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

And War On Want and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions are part of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, a movement that campaigns for Israel’s destruction.

Rector Winkett writes in her Guardian piece that all viewpoints are listened to without exception and that visitors have been allowed to write a prayer or message of peace on the wall and that anything offensive has been immediately removed. She also writes that most conversations have been respectful.

Sadly, many have not been. A woman going in to St James’s Church for Bethlehem Unwrapped’s comedy evening responded to a question about the Holocaust with “What Holocaust?” A supporter of Israel was called a “friggin Jew” and “quenelle 4 ever” appeared on the replica wall (see middle of replica wall below written in blue):


Rector Winkett also writes that people have written “this wall saves lives”. However, this was subsequently changed to “this wall enslaves lives”.

Bethlehem Unwrapped is not a respectful project however much Rector Winkett is trying to convince us. It mocks Israel’s valid attempts to keep both Israelis and Palestinians alive. Palestinians cannot now be sent as suicide bombers by Hamas.

And it fails to recognise even the possibility that the main problem for Bethlehem’s Christians is not the security wall at all but intimidation by Hamas similar to that carried out by Islamists elsewhere.

Moreover, St James’s Church’s Bethlehem Unwrapped festival has attracted antisemites, Holocaust deniers, those campaigning for the destruction of Israel and those who condone violence to that end.

This may not have been St James’s Church’s intention but this is what has happened and for this Rector Winkett should apologise to Britain’s Jewish community which is bearing the main brunt of the backlash.

The biggest irony is that St James’s Church itself is protected by a security wall; a tall metal fence that contains a locked door. When the door is unlocked it is heavily guarded. Some may call this a checkpoint.

St James’s Church is, understandably, protecting itself from anyone harbouring ill feeling towards it and who may be inclined to carry out an atrocity similar to those carried out against Churches in Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria and Egypt by militant Islamists.

Israel is doing the same.

(This piece was originally posted at CiFWatch)

127 responses to “Israel’s “beautiful resistance” to suicide bombers: A response to St James’s Church Rector Lucy Winkett

  1. Brilliant!

    I was invited to speak at Bethlehem Unwrapped. The more I hear about it the more relieved I am I declined.

    Great piece, Richard.

    • richardmillett

      Thanks, Chas. Alan Johnson from BICOM did amazingly well it seems but it was predictably a very hostile and nasty room from the sounds of it. Thanks, Alex. Credit should go to all the comments and research I have read on this travesty. It is worse than first thought.

    • It was your loss, everything went great, the spirits were high, amazing atmosphere both inside and outside the church, people came from all across the UK, the wall came down , sign of things to come, Happy 2014, UN year of Solidarity with the Palestinians.

      • herbert deutsch

        What crap. They even refuse to reocgne Israel]s righ to eixist

      • May the wall come down, on the heads of hamass, hezbullah and fascists like you Carol.

      • I can understand how frustrating it must be for the Palestinians and their support networks . The security barrier put an end to homicide bombings as a means of ‘ Beautiful Resistance ‘. That’s what this is all about . Winkett and her stooges are evil personified for portraying the barrier as anything other than its intended purpose which is to save lives . May their frustration , anger and hatred continue forever . Let them set their teeth against as others have before and break them in the process .
        Their dancing , feasting and music playing evenings are played out over the tears and continuing grief of every family member of those killed during the intifada years . That is how our enemies danced in joy for our downfall each time before .
        I view this event , the Rector and her acolytes in precisely the same vein . They can dress it up however they like . Employ the Livingstone formulation to their hearts content . We know what you are and more importantly you know it too .

  2. Alex Griller

    Thank you so much, Richard. This is an excellent, reasoned but heartfelt article that highlights all the inanities and tragedies of Bethlehem Unwrapped. What a travesty it all was.

  3. So superb, Richard! Thank you!

  4. Francis Ebbecke

    People who have informed themselves as to why the wall is there to begin with in Israel should not be offended by it. It is there to protect the Israelis and Palestinians from the terrorists. It has done so. Unfortunately, the replica wall at Saint James is given the interpretation as some sort of imprisonment symbol by those who chose to delude themselves.

    • It’s to protect the Israelis at the expense of the Palestinians, here are the voices of the people who live right by the wall

      • Bravo Stormfront Carol, you finally got something right: the fence is to PROTECT Israelis at the expense of those who try to TERRORISE them, the “Palestinians”.
        I’m happy to see you took your meds today. Not totally good but improving.

      • Stormfront Carol, it is to protect the Israelis at the expense of “Palestinians”, who are attacking them… Yes, that is the work for the Israeli government. Work of PA is to stop the aggressors, not to incite them as they do.
        Thanks again for proving yourvracism and yourvlack of understanding of international law, namely the right to self-defence.

    • Fascist Carol, The anti-islamofascist wall is paid for by Israelis. Not by your so called “palestinian” fascists.

      The fact that the anti-Islamofascist wall thwarts jihad means that the wall is effective.

  5. If there were a wall separating Lee Rigby from Michael Adebowale, Lee Rigby would not have been hacked to death.

    • Well said !

    • Zionists will use every single atrocity around the world to justice their daily atrocities against the Palestinians.

      Starting from the holocaust which took place in Europe, had NOTHING to do with the Palestinians or Palestine, yet today, EJ, WB, Gaza, refugee camps are still going through daily holocaust for something that has NOTHING to do with us, we’re the world’s sacrifice.

      Each and every single day, Palestinian children are blind folded, tortured and detained, Palestinian child is Killed every 3 days, 8 children a day are dying from starvation, when is this going to end?? how much longer are we suppose to watch.

      Thank god for St James’s church for standing up for what’s right when the rest of the country is busy feeding the monster that created this problem.

      • Fascist Carol,

        Too many atrocities committed around the world are committed by your islamofascists.

        Islamofascists are at war with Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, gays, girls who have offended “family honor”, and the Wrong Kind of Muslim.

        Your heartless islamofascists shoot, stab, bomb, hijack, behead, poison, throw acid in the face of innocents all over the world.

        Nothing is safe from islamofascists. They brainwash their children to aspire to die trying to kill the other – with the reward of 72 virigins.

        Your so called “palestinians” ARE nazis. They do nazi salutes, they celebrate your fascists socialist hitler.

        Churches in the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan”, Nigeria and Egypt are bombed. Christians killed. Why does St. James side with the murderers of Christians?

        Fascist Carol, Why do YOU side with Fascists?

      • Stormfront Carol, take another dose of your meds. Effect has already disappeared

      • Brian Goldfarb

        If she’s still reading this far back, Carol says “today, EJ, WB, Gaza, refugee camps are still going through daily holocaust for something that has NOTHING to do with us, we’re the world’s sacrifice”, perhaps she’d care to start by defining “holocaust”, before using the term as loosely as she does.

        Just a simple request, then we can talk about whether that is actually happening in E. Jerusalem, etc, especially as the Moslem/Palestinian/Arab populations of these places are increasing. Oddly, this doesn’t happen when a holocaust occurs, as any decent dictionary will tell her, as well as appropriate academic books…I can recommend a few, if she likes.

      • Brian, a Holocaust survivor, Meyer drew upon memories of his own past to demonstrate how he believes they relate to events in the present. Meyer left Nazi Germany at the age of 14 and lived as a Jewish refugee for the next three years in the Netherlands. He lived underground and worked with Jewish resistance groups for approximately a year but was eventually betrayed and landed in the Auschwitz concentration camp, where he remained for 10 months. Since then, Meyer has been the director of Philips Electronics, a violin designer and, today, is a writer and speaker for Palestinian rights.
        “There are many forms of genocide,” Meyer told the Wheel before the conference, noting that as a teenager, he was unable to attend school in Nazi Germany. “So one form of genocide is preventing young people who want to learn something and want to develop their personality from doing so. Mass deportation is genocide, and hunger is genocide. There are … many, many forms of it.”
        Before the lecture, Meyer also explained that he hopes students and other audience members would come out of the lecture recognizing “that the Holocaust has a lesson. Never genocide on any group, no matter whom it may be.”
        Meyer began his speech by stating his views on the differences between Zionism and Judaism. Zionism is usually defined as the movement for Jewish rebirth and sovereignty in Israel, he said.
        He said Zionism is in “stark contrast with Judaic ethics; it’s racist and separatist. He claimed Zionists have one goal: to garner the maximum Palestinian region, but with the minimum number of Palestinians in it.
        Meyer said he feels those who support the “inhumane and unjust policies of the Israeli occupation” misuse the Holocaust to justify policies toward the Palestinians.
        “They say nobody will ever or has ever suffered as much as they did in the Holocaust,” Meyer said, adding that Zionists have created a “‘monopoly’ that justifies the dispossession of Palestinians.”
        According to Meyer, Israel use their suffering during the Holocaust to lessen the “injustice” of their current actions against the Palestinians. Meyer added that he feels students often are not educated enough on the implications of the Holocaust to see a clear connection to events today.
        Prior to the Holocaust, Meyer said, Germany “conditioned the dominant society to participation in dehumanization. For the Jews, he said, that meant arrest without warrant.
        “Only those who have been dehumanized through … brain washing attempt to dehumanize others,” he said.
        Similarly, Meyer said he feels the Israelis utilize “indoctrination through propaganda” toward the Palestinian people, a tactic he also compared to those of the Nazi Party.
        Israel is already charged with Genocide and war crimes, as during the Nazi times, no one realised the extent of the atrocities until they got in, Gaza under the Israeli siege is yet to be opened up or assessed, Israel has 5000 illegally detained without any charge, including hundreds of CHILDREN that are TORTURED and abused.

      • So Stormfront Carol, do you have only your deranged rants to supoort your hate speech? Remember that Israel has escaped all condemnations and being charged by kangaroo courts is no proof.
        Remaining of your argumentation is rants and hate speech, antisemitic demonization coming from

      • Brian Goldfarb

        All I will say in response to Carol, below my comment, is that she fails to answer the point. That is, where is her definition? Instead, she hopes that lots of words will obscure the lack of an answer.

        Doesn’t though.

      • Stormfront Carol, “Palestinians” are the only ones justifying, inciting and supporting atrocities. They are also the only ones committing them on a daily basis.
        Hide your racism better and don’t forget your meds.

      • Carol, sweetie – or should I call you Parissa? – we all know you have no basis for that made-up statistic “Palestinian child is Killed every 3 days, 8 children a day are dying from starvation, when is this going to end?”

        When are your lies going to end?
        BTW – the Holocaust that you claim “Palestinians” had nothing to do with was fervently supported by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini who made a special trip to Berlin to meet with Hitler and exchange tips with him on how to kill the Jews.

    Winkett is a trustee of Amos Trust. Says it all.

    • What exactly does it say?? support the Palestinians??? what’s the crime here, being born a Palestinian or supporting the Palestinians??? please don’t forget to explain why.

      When will you realise that your Zionist propaganda is NOTHING more than a slogan that doesn’t make sense, exactly what the Nazi’s used to do about the Jews, , history repeating itself.

      • The crime the “Palestinians” and yourself commit every day and with each and everyone of your messages is antisemitism. You are guilty of spreading hate of Jews, in the form of lies, distorsions and total fantasies that you cannot even discriminate from reality.
        “Palestinians” are also guilty of terrorism since 1948 and before, either by direct participation or, more recently, by electing their terrorists as leaders.
        Their plight is well-deserved. They can complain only to themselves and to those who are stupid enough to listen to their drivel. Meaning you included.

      • Jose dear, don’t you think if the Israelis honestly had any problem in the last 65 years with BRUTALLY occupying the Palestinians under military law, they would have kept it up all these years?? they would have moved back to where they came from, most have duel American/Canadian and European nationalities, they would have cared enough about their children to want them to have a better future, not keep up the professional victim, every one hate us, don’t know why, while they’re training and arming their kids through the IDF to kill and maim Palestinians.

        Israelis have been terrorising the Palestinians for 65 years and you are so twisted to imply otherwise, this is what your occupation is about Only monsters can support this

      • Stormfront Carol, Israelis are no more brutal than they need to be with terrorists and to protect civilians from their evil goals.
        The rest is even more fantasies coming from the Stormfront website. When you are off your meds, you believe all the antisemitic chants you hear.

      • Stormfront Carol, here are the crimes of “Palestinians”:
        – pogroms for centuries on Jews
        – murder directly or indirectly by refusing entry to Mandate Palestine
        – accomplices to genocide of Jews by supporting Hitler or by clearing the way to Arab armies
        – terrorism, support of terorism and incitement to it, amiunting to war crimes
        – freely electing terrorist as their leaders, thus justifying all measures necessary to protect the lives of Israeli civilians
        – child abuse, brainwashing them into terrorism
        Take your meds.

  7. “Alan Johnson from BICOM did amazingly well it seems”

    Great Richard – he raised money for a BDS organisation, helped rehabilitate the reputation of an antisemitic church, and changed no one’s mind …

    • richardmillett

      what i meant was he did incredibly well in what he said. according to some he gave a brilliant speech. i didn’t presume for one minute he helped Israel’s cause last night.

    • How do you know that he didn’t change any minds? If he changed just one or got anybody thinking with a little more depth then his efforts are well worth it.

    • Agreed . I wrote to BICOM asking them to reconsider but to no avail .

  8. herbert deutsch

    well said

  9. Brian Goldfarb

    I sent the following letter to the Rev Lucy Winkett (and posted it as a comment on Anne’s Opinions (see Richard’s blogroll for the link). I can’t say that I really expected a serious reply (sent 1 Jan, 20.10):

    Dear Rev. Lucy Winkett

    I was disappointed, but not surprised, by St James’s erection of a travestied copy of Israel’s security barrier across the Piccadilly facade of the church. Disappointed because I would have hoped that professing and practising Christians would acquaint themselves with the facts (which, as C.P. Scott noted all those decades ago, are sacred, even if subject to interpretation) before making such an outstandingly one-sided statement. Incidentally, what impact does such a blatantly political statement have on the church’s Charity status? As I am aware from my own voluntary work, registered charities are supposed to stay well clear of politics.

    Among these facts is, as many have already told you, the fact that since the erection of the barrier, suicide and other terrorist attacks within the 1948 Truce Line between Israel and her neighbour have virtually disappeared. I do realise that depriving terrorists of their right to attack innocent others may well infringe those terrorists human rights, but this is a small price to pay, as I am sure the victims of the 7/7 attacks in London would assure you.

    Then there is the fact that the International Court of Justice declared that any sovereign state may erects a barrier of any sort on its own actual border, and this is a perfectly legal act under international law. It is regrettable that Israel’s isn’t, in fact, so built in its entirety, but this could easily be remedied, unlike the lives, limbs and suffering of the victims of terror. The barrier can also, in the event of peace, be removed.

    However, for there to be peace, there needs to be an agreement between at least two participants in whatever the conflict is. Or, as Perez de Coelha, former Secretary General of the UN, said in relation to the conflict over the Falklands Islands and the failure to find a peaceful solution, “It takes two to tango”. By focussing exclusively on the supposed evil of Israel and the Israelis, your church’s efforts serve only to objectify the Palestinians: they have no agency in this matter, but must be seen only and always as the victims of others. Why aren’t you and the others responsible for this event pressurising the Palestinians and their allies to come to the negotiating table (which is open and before them, courtesy of, inter alia, the US Government) to negotiate in good faith? Or would that deprive the collective you of a simple and easy propaganda victory?

    For that matter, why have you chosen this issue and not others? Why not, for example, take the opportunity to remind the world of the unlawful occupation by Morocco of Western Sahara? Or of Turkey’s invasion and occupation of Northern Cyprus? Why not take a stand on China’s invasion and occupation of Tibet? All worthy subjects for your compassion. Come to that, why are you not protesting what is happening to your co-religionists across the Moslem world? Can you name a country in the Moslem world that is as tolerant of Christians as is Israel? Or as tolerant of Moslems of any denomination as Israel is? Why do you not choose to highlight the fate of Sunni Moslems in Shia-dominated countries, or that of Shia Moslems in Sunni-dominated ones?

    No, you would rather choose an extremely soft target: the one country which is a self-proclaimed Jewish state, the one where about half of the world’s Jews lives.

    And, in any reply you make, please don’t tell me “after what happened to them, Jews should know better”. It is equally valid to riposte that after what happened to the Jews, the world should know better.

    And I wasn’t disappointed, re a reply. This is what I got back (4 Jan 16.04):

    Thank you for contacting us.  As you can imagine, the Bethlehem Unwrapped Festival has generated an overwhelming response both in writing and in person at St James’s Church, with a wide range of views expressed.  We are unable to reply to every e-mail personally, but Lucy Winkett has asked me to draw your attention to her blog written this week in the light of these responses.  It can be found at

    Joanna Hines & Tony Sanchez
    Churchwardens on behalf of the PCC of St James’s Church, Piccadilly
    So, of course, I wrote again (4 Jan, 18.34):

    Thank you for this.

    However, having read the new Comment is Free article, I in no way regard this as a response to my email, but as a defence of what has already been done. Hardly the same thing.

    But then I don’t think I really expected a direct answer, nor, I suspect, do others who take the general stance I have taken, and who have written directly to you.

    Being busy is no reason for failing to respond, even in general terms, to specific criticisms. Rather, it is an evasion.

    Yours sincerely

    Brian Goldfarb

    PS I don’t expect a direct answer to this email either. Surprise me!

  10. herbert deutsch

    I think there is a much more serious criticism of Lucy Winkett and her church. To Wit, as both Christians and religious leaders they are moral cowards. They are utterly silent about fellow Christians being massacred and denied basic religious rights in the Muslim world. Today a Christian girl sits on death row in Pakistan for example. Yet their focus is Israel. Can you image a wall protesting Christian treatment? Now, of course, that is safe and they can sleep safely, but to take on the the protection of fellow Christians in the Muslim world — can’t do that, they might be attacked. In short, they are the worst type of Christians — dishonest, moral cowards. .

    • Herbert Dautch, you obviously are not aware of the years of appeal by the Jerusalem churches to the international community to come and witness the reality of the Palestinian Christians in Palestine, and what ever is left of Christianity where Jesus Christ was born, lived, died and resurrected.

      There’s less than one million Palestinian Christians who saved Christianity for 2 thousand years, left on this planet, when Israel was created we were double the number of the Jews, it might be too late to save us, but it’s the churches duty to save what ever is left of Christ’s place if they want to call themselves Christians.

      • If Jesus were alive today, he would be in danger of being shot, stabbed, poisoned, beheaded, stoned to death by islamofascists.

      • Stormfront Carol, remember itvis the Muslims who are ethnically cleansing their Christian brethen from PA-occupied land. Gazastan has nearly finished with them.

      • Stormfront Carol, Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Christians thrive. Take your meds.
        Your parents were idiots who wanted to take Jewish possessions when they would be pushed to the sea. They bet on Arab genocide and lost.

      • Israel defied the odds and logic of Arab fascists and Jew hating Brits and prevailed in in 1948, just three years after the end of WW2 and the Holocaust?


      • Carol (aka Parissa), the reason for the decline in the numbers of Christians in places such as Bethlehem and the rest of the twrritory under the control of the “Palestinian Authority” or Hamas, is the persecution of Christians by the Muslim majority, rape of Christian girls by Muslims, forced conversion, the desecration of the Church of the Nativity by Muslims who held the priests and monks there at gunpoint while using it as a base to attack Israelis, threats to Christian shopkeepers and businessmen by Muslims – the list is endless. Strangely enough, the Arab Christian population in Israel is thriving, and is even campaigning in favour of compulsory military service for Christian Arabs – who are currently exempt from military service. And strangely enough (not), their leaders are now being threatened by the Israeli Arab (Muslim) leadership.

      • herbert deutsch

        If the view is that Israel is responsible for the decline of Christians in the areas controlled by the Palestinians, then the holder of that view might do well to take their head out of a place where the sun does not shine. At the risk of investing this absurd proposition with some sort of legitimacy, Carol might try to explain why Christians are disappearing throughout the entire Middle East, Pakistan or Bangladesh among other places.

    • You’re right Edward, all the things Israel been practicing on the Palestinians since 1940s, and now trying to convince the world he was Jewish and have NOTHING to do with Christianity, which coincidentally happened to be named after him.

      • Stormfront Carol, only Muslims threaten the life, existence and freedoms of Christians in the Middle East.
        Try to remember that before your next intake of meds.

      • Stormfront Carol, fortunately Israelis did not apply to “Palestinians” what Arabs applied to Jews: murder, pogroms, attempt to genocide, demonisation and delegitimisation.
        Arabs do these things to themselves without help anyway.
        Take your meds.

      • Jesus WAS a Jew, sweetie. Born a Jew, lived a Jew, died a Jew. Deal with it. What did you think he was? A Muslim?
        Christians claim Jesus was descended from King David, don’t they? Or are you saying King David wasn’t a Jew either?

  11. Excellent post as always Richard .
    Hearing some of the appalling comments made by some of those attending the various events on other nights , Im not at all surprised that Alan Johnson of BICOM received a hostile reception . He should not have agreed to speak in the first place . It was incumbent on BICOM to take their lead from the Embassy and pull out from this wretched hate filled event . He achieved nothing but give them a fig leaf of respectability and legitimacy . It was a hatchet job conducted by polemicists with Rector Winkett at the head of the whole rotten edifice . Shame on her and shame on the Bishop of London for allowing it to take place on his watch and his approval .

  12. Subject: Bethlehem Unwrapped St James Church
    The Bishop Of London
    Dear Sirs

    I refer to the event ‘Bethlehem Unwrapped ‘ which is taking place under the auspices of Rector Lucy Winkett at the Church of St James Piccadilly . I am sure by now you are aware of the following link and comment by Rector Winkett in today’s Guardian .

    Frankly just the title itself is enough to make one despair . How can Rector Winkett maintain the enterprise is not about taking sides . The whole event from start to finish is about taking sides . It has effectively air brushed the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2007 , a time when homicidal maniacs were crossing an open border into Israel in order to explode themselves within Israeli shopping malls , restaurants and buses . Targets were carefully researched so as to strike at peak times in order to maximise the casualties . Bombs were loaded with ball bearings in order to increase the kill ratio within a wider radius of the detonation .

    Since the construction of the barrier , there have been no further terrorist attacks within Israels pre 67 borders and as a consequence no direct retaliation by Israel .

    With the country grinding to a standstill , the security barrier was viewed as a last ditch attempt to prevent such acts of barbarism.

    But Rector Winkett ignores that . Instead she focuses on the effect on Palestinian life . The inconvenience of check points , of disruption to daily life . She does this while glossing over the cause . Her priority is Palestinian inconvenience over Israeli lives .

    Perhaps in order to be truly impartial as she claims , she might have considered a request to the Israeli Embassy for the remains of an exploded Egged bus , blood stains intact just for authenticity to be positioned alongside the faux wall

    But this obviously did not occur to her despite her claim to balance and impartiality . That is why her letter to the Guardian does not ring true . It is but a feeble attempt to placate those opposed to the church being used as a political battleground for partial agit propaganda purposes . This is in fact gesture politics of the worst kind .

    I am constantly reassured and take great comfort from the many messages of support from Christian Friends who have disowned this disgraceful revisionist version of the Second Intifada and the almost total dismissal of the suffering caused by it.

    Coming so soon after the Rev Stephen Sizers unbecoming conduct , I would have thought this was the last thing either the church or the Jewish community needed . It appears I was wrong .

    I find it difficult to accept that this event , with all the planning required and conducted with the utmost secrecy would have escaped your notice and permission . If that is indeed the case it will require more than a standard ‘ lessons must be learnt ‘ response but a full enquiry with recommendations for a review of procedure before allowing such stunts to take place in future .

    Yours faithfully
    Harvey Garfield

  13. Edward, thank you for destroying the lies of Carol.

  14. The Palestinians are obsessed with hate.
    They are a hateful people with lives ruled by prejudice, terrorism and murdering innocent civilians.
    The Pals never contribute nothing to society, other than whining that Israel doesn’t want to live under Sharia law.

    Any sane human would CONDEMN Palestinian leaders brainwashing their children to strap bombs on themselves to murder Jewish children.

    How do the Palestinians raise so many people who have no regard for human life? What kind of gutter do these animals come from? What kind of Evil could think it is an act of heroic and religious martyrdom to slaughter children waiting for buses, to blow apart people in their sleep, to kill women doing their marketing, to target the weak and defenseless at malls.

    Why do the Palestinians clamor like vultures to take credit when they butcher Israeli school kids on a school bus?
    Through the Palestinians hate, an entire generation has lost the capacity for humanity.

    Israel should be commended for its extreme restraint. Which other country would tolerate blood thirsty terrorists who glorify murdering civilians.

    The racists are Palestinians who praise Israeli buses being blown up with old people on board. Pizza restaurant and Disco’s where Israeli teenagers hung out, blown up.
    Crude racism was an old man in a wheel chair is pushed off a ship alive, because he was a Jew.
    Does the name Leon Klinghoffer ring a bell? OH i forgot, dead Jews don’t bother Carol.

    Palestinians get more aid per capita then any people on earth yet they are always angry. All foreign aid should be cut off till they grow up, stop firing missiles at civilians, and learn to be productive humans instead of moochers and terrorists.

    The real problem is global Arab/Moslem insistence to spread hate, violence, wars, terrorism, lies, false accusations against Jews and reducing Jews to subhumans or second class citizens – slaves or servants – without any human rights.

    My advice to these Pals is very simple.
    Quit trying to blow up innocent Israeli families on buses. Stop trying to murder Jews at pizzeria’s and disco’s..
    Tell the Pals! You want your welfare handout from the West, than stop with the terrorism and your child abuse death cult.

    Hamas and Fatah are always ready to sacrifice women and children for their greed and hatred.

    The Palestinians will blow up the same hospital that gave them excellent care. The will try to blow up the power plant providing electricity from Israel. Their hate knows no end. Until they love their children more than they hate the Jews as Golda Meir said.

    Today, some 62% of the population of the Palestinian Authority say that suicide bombings against civilians are often (37%) or sometimes justified. Only 16% reject this tactic entirely!
    Its good to know that only 16% of Palestinians have a soul
    Wednesday, September 11, 2013
    Once again, Palestinian Arab support for terrorism is the highest in the world
    Pew Research just released their latest Global Attitudes report on how the Muslim world views extremist groups and terrorism.

    Once again, Palestinian Arab Muslims are found to support terrorism and have a higher regard for terrorist than any other group. By far.

    • “The Palestinians are obsessed with hate.
      They are a hateful people …”

      The “Palestinians” are not, and never have been, a people. It’s time we stopped playing into this game. The Arabs of Eretz Yisrael defined themselves as Southern Syrians and only invented themselves as a people in the mid-1960s. In a 1977 interview to the Dutch newspaper “Trouw”, PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen admitted: “the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.”

      Furthermore, former Israeli Knesset Member Azmi Bishara, who can hardly be accused of being a Zionist, admitted in a TV interview, that there was no such thing as a “Palestinian” nation, as distinct from the Arab nation. See:

      And how about the Hamas member who admits the same thing?

      The greatest mistake Israel ever made was to agree to “two states for two peoples” – because that implies recognition of the FAKE “Palestinians” as a people.

      • “The Palestinians are obsessed with hate. They are a hateful people with lives ruled by prejudice, terrorism and murdering innocent civilians…The Pals never contribute nothing [sic] to society…no regard for human life…what gutter do these animals come from…Palestinians are racists…they are always angry…Palestinians are FAKE as a people…”


        In their own words:

        “Death to Arabs” “Arabs to the Gas Chambers”
        Scrawled by Israeli soldiers and radical, heavily-armed Jewish settlers in Hebron on the walls of smashed Palestinian offices, apartments, businesses and homes, along with their excrement and urine, during “Operation Defensive Shield,” which Ariel Sharon launched on Good Friday, Mar. 29, 2002.

        “The Arabs are vipers…We must exterminate their seed.”
        — Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, former Chief Sephardi Rabbi of Israel, and one of Israel’s most important religious leaders. Rabbi Yosef said this, and similar statements, repeatedly from the pulpit to cheering crowds of Jewish followers. He also condemned opposition politicians and gays, and asked God to “strike these Ishmaelites and Palestinians with a plague.” Yosef founded and was spiritual leader of the extremist, ultra-Orthodox Shas Party, which is now the 4th largest political party in Israel and has been welcomed into coalition governments of both Labor and Likud.

        After Rabbi Yosef’s recent death at age 93, Israel’s Prime Minister Binyamin ‘Bibi’ Netanyahu called Yosef’s passing a mayor blow to the Jewish people, “who have lost one of the wisest men of this generation…a teacher of tens of thousands.” Israeli President Shimon Peres was even more effusive. “When I pressed his hand,” Peres said, “I felt I was touching history, and when I kissed his head it was as though I kissed the very greatness of Israel.”

        So: What Ovadia Yosef stood for is “the very greatness of Israel.” Really?

        “The Palestinians are two-legged dogs.” (Or variously: “two-legged animals,” or “two-legged beasts.”)
        — Menachem Begin, throughout his political career.

        And while addressing the Knesset in June 1982 during Israel’s invasion of Lebanon, as Ariel Sharon’s tank army was rolling north toward Beirut and U.S.-made Israeli warplanes were dropping white phosphorus and cluster bombs, resulting in hundreds of thousands of Lebanese being killed, wounded, starved, terrorized and uprooted from their homes, most of them by munitions made in America, Israeli Prime Minister Begin also declared: “I have no doubt that civilians deserve punishment.”

        BTW: The first U.S Marine casualty in Lebanon in 1983 was a Marine who picked up a cluster bomblet. It exploded and killed him, and also wounded three other Marines. That cluster bomb had been dropped on the Rafic International Airport in Beirut by Israel, and had been given to Israel by U.S. taxpayers.

        “There is no such thing as a Palestinian.”
        — Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, 1968.

        “Israel should treat the Palestinians the way Saddam Hussein dealt with the Kurds.”
        — Uzi Landau, appointed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the Israeli Cabinet as Minister of Internal Security, 2001.

        “[Palestinians are] a cancer in the body of the nation.”
        — Effi Eitam, retired Israeli general and an open advocate of ethnic cleansing, appointed by P.M. Ariel Sharon to his Cabinet, 2002.

        “Our purpose is to punish the population.”
        — Unnamed Israeli army officer to the ‘Los Angeles Times,’ Nov. 10, 2000. Israeli troops were trying to crush the second Palestinian uprising, which had been touched off on Sept. 21, 2000 by Ariel Sharon marching in a protective phalanx of some 3,500 Israeli police and troops, with Israeli helicopters overhead, in a campaign stunt to the Al-Aqsa mosque (known to Jews as the Temple Mount) in East Jerusalem to claim the holy site and all of East Jerusalem for Jews and Israel.

        You see, Ken, actually there is plenty of hate to go around in the Middle East. And it must be observed that, while the world hears much about the notion of “Holocaust denial,” Israel and its rabid followers worldwide clearly have a serious case of Palestinian denial.

    Shaked: ‘How Can We Make Peace With These People?’
    In letter to MKs, Ambassadors, Jewish Home Chairwoman Ayelet Shaked calls for end to anti-Semitic incitement in the PA.
    Tova Dvorin, Arutz Sheva Staff

    MK Ayelet Shaked (Jewish Home) dispatched a letter to Knesset members and ambassadors in Israel Sunday, following reports of violent and anti-Semitic content featured on the Gaza radio station “Sawt Al-Quds”, broadcasted on FM 102.7.

    The program, named “Arva Vanet” (lit. “no homeland”), airs several times a week and profiles a “martyr” for the “Palestinian people,” according to the letter. The program glorifies that murder of civilians – especially Religious Zionists.

    Each story details a different terror attack and is accompanied by a soundtrack full of pathos. The show airs in the afternoon and evening – a prime time to reach the ears of children and teenagers returning home from school.

    Shaked gives one example of programming by the station, citing an episode which aired on January 1. “The broadcaster talked about the “martyr” from the city of Nablus, born in 1977, who blew himself up in Netanya, killing large numbers of Jews ‘by the Grace of G-d,'” she stated.

    Shaked responded, “We are trying to make peace with these people? They incite to murder and praise terrorist atrocities! They educate their children to murder innocent people! They have no regard for morals or human life!”

    Shaked noted that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu promised peace only in the event that incitement against Jews and Israeli stopped. Now that the incitement continues, “why do we continue the deception [of negotiations]? Why do we stand blind to reality?” she asked.
    Shaked concluded her letter with a statement calling on the international community to recognize the incitement against Israel from the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Gaza.

    Israel’s Security Agency (ISA or the Shin Bet) statistics in 2013 revealed that terror attacks have been on the rise since peace talks resumed.

    Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remarked Friday that incitement – not just from the Hamas, but from the PA as well – is “a major factor behind the attacks.”

    “To glorify the murders of innocent women and men as heroes is an outrage,” he added. “How can President Abbas say that he stands against terrorism when he embraces the perpetrators of terrorism and glorifies them as heroes? He can’t stand against terrorists and stand with the terrorists.”

    Netanyahu told US Secretary of State John Kerry that it is “not surprising that in recent weeks Israel has been subjected to a growing wave of terrorist attacks. President Abbas didn’t see fit to condemn these attacks even after we learned that at least in one case, I stress at least in one case, those who served and are serving in the Palestinian security forces took part in them.”

  16. There is reason to believe that there was disagreement with St James’ offensiveness from within the C of E Itself. I received the following from someone in my email list who asked for it to be circulated widely. Its author does not want to put it on line (so I don’t have a link) but it expresses sentiments very similar to my own:

    “Subject: Re: St James WALL: Response From Archbishop of Canterbury’s Office

    “Dear Bishop Chartres,

    “On Christmas Eve 2013, I visited Bethlehem. I toured around the city, and this included the Church of Nativity, the Milk Grotto and the Shepherds field. I observed the celebrations in the town square where there were many TV crews and some 5,000+ people gathered at lunchtime. There was, among other decorations, a huge Christmas tree in the plaza, music and a stage.

    “When entering Bethlehem, I did not notice any imposing structures such as is described by the St James Church. I did see an anti-terror wall near the checkpoint leading out of Jerusalem on the way to Bethlehem, and this was approximately one kilometre long. The wall I observed was along a busy highway, and not near any houses. The distance from Jerusalem to Bethlehem is 8kms.

    “Nowhere in Bethlehem did I observe a wall as described by the St James church. There were no fences anywhere near the church of nativity. The entire area was open and visible. Security was under the control of the Palestinian Authority, and there were their security forces everywhere.

    “I totally refute, the myths portrayed by the St James Church in London. The allegations they make are grossly misrepresentative of the truth. The truth is, there is no wall near the holy sites. The truth is there is no massive barrier around Bethlehem.

    “The truth is that there is a tiny israeli community under constant threat of terrorism, murder, rape and pillage, and it is they who need the protection of an anti-terror perimeter around their tiny enclave. These people are indigenous to the land, having survived many attempts of ethnic cleansing by the arabs.

    “The truth is that Bethlehem, only two generations ago was 85% Christian, but now, not less that 20% christian. Why is it that Christians have fled one of Christendom’s most holy cities?

    “The truth is that the St James Church in Piccadilly has either ignorantly or willfully bought a big lie. This lie is propaganda for the arab terrorists that threaten jew and christian alike. Sadly, the better nature of well meaning people have been subverted for a partisan cause .

    “I am appalled at the stunt of the St James Church. I urge you to make your own thorough investigation of the facts, including doing a tour of Bethlehem, and then once you are satisfied you have seen the truth for yourself, and know for certain that the stunt was rooted in sheer fantasy and propaganda, I urge you to then put a stop to the absurd, and malicious anti-semitic, anti-israel BDS movement that has hijacked one of your churches.

    “If you do nothing, you will see a slippery slide towards irrelevance, as your churches will be hijacked for political causes none of which will be in your interest or the interest of your flock, none of your making, and none within your control. If you do nothing, political extremists such as the BDS movement, will monopolise your resources in their quest to first destroy Israel, and then impose totalitarianism on the whole world.

    “If your church was to do something useful, they could highlight the plight of middle eastern christians that face oblivion – actual genocide, within our lifetimes.

    [name removed]
    Currently located in Jerusalem

  17. Babs – here is the response from the Bishop of London that people are getting. He is supporting Winkett. Welby has stayed silent so far.


    Thank you for your message about the “Bethlehem Unwrapped” programme at St James’s, Piccadilly.

    I do not know whether you have had an opportunity to read the Vicar’s article which was published in The Guardian last Thursday. I think that you will see that far from stoking animosities, great care has been taken to respond to a specific request from the united churches of the Holy Land.

    Yours sincerely.

    + Richard Londin

    The Rt Revd & Rt Hon Richard Chartres KCVO DD FSA
    Bishop of London

    • Andrew, what exactly are you expecting from a Jewish Archbishop who went to Yad Vashem during his visit to Israel, yet didn’t bother to go to Bethlehem where the Churches been appealing to the world? Is he the head of a Christian or a Jewish religion??

      • “Jewish Archbishop”?

        Fascist Carol, you have finally lost your tenuous grip on reality..

        Happy Eternal Nakba!

      • Oh dear, he’s NOT Jewish enough for you? yet we are more accepting and accommodating religion.

        As for your other rant, it’s actually an honor to be hated by the epitome of evil.

      • Stormfront Carol, the fact that you describe someone as “Jewish” while he is a Christian Archbishop indicatesvyouvare not pointing at religion but Jewish “ethnicity” (nationhood). Therefore, it was a RACIST mention to criticise his positions on the security fence.
        Racism such as you can find on your Stormfront page.

      • herbert deutsch

        Without all the adjectives and snide comments, perhaps Carol could articulate her position so one can understand it

      • Stormfront Carol, you used the word Jew instead of Zionist (“Jewish Archbishop”). Inciting to racial hatred. Masks are falling, aren’t they?

      • Thank you Herbert for being the voice of reason, I take it that non on you double clicked on the link from the Jewish Daily forward,and read the article ‘Jewish’ Archbishop of Canterbury at Yad Vashem, because in fact the Archbishop’s father is Jewish and the Archbishop had very close relationship with Israel, that’s where he spent his honeymoon.

      • So Stormfront Carol confirms her racist position by calling Jewish a Christian Archbishop. For the second time. By the way, having a Jewish father does not make one Jewish (nationhood). So Stormfront is not only a racist but an ignoramus.
        Not a revelation to anyone.

      • Jose, just because you’re in your usual denial, that doesn’t in any way make the Archbishop anything other than Jewish, that’s exactly who he is.

        As for your rest of your silly argument, I personally have a British passport, never been to Israel, no intentions of setting a foot there, yet I promise you that if I decide at any stage to go to your so called ‘Jewish Nation’ I won’t make it outside the airport, both my parents were born in Yaffa Palestine, (I’m sure they’ll ask that) my family from Jesus Christ’s days until now been nothing but Palestinian Christians, Are you saying that your so called ‘Jewish Nation’ is going to have me anywhere but on the next flight back to the UK??? stating the facts and sharing the facts with others is NOT racism and ignorance, they’re the facts.

      • Stormfront Carol, your ludicrous rants go one step further. Take your meds. Jews decide who is Jewish and who is not, not racists from UK. My grandparents were born in Poland, I’m not a Pole. Your parents were Arab citizens of the Ottoman Empire taken over by the British. They were no more “Palestinians” than the Jews living there.
        So your racism against a Christian Archbishop is clear.
        Go back to your Stormfront page for more pseudo-arguments.

      • herbert deutsch

        Carol you miss my point. Most of your postings are simply diatribes interspersed with what appear to be anti-Semitic commentary all wrapped around what appears to be a false narrative concerning the Palestinians. Interwoven in all of this is the idea that the Palestinians are a distinct people. While that may concept may play well among the poetically correct, it is false. Aas Zuheir Mohsein, Member of the Supreme Council of the PLO said in 1977:

        There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and
        Lebanese. *** It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline
        our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to
        encourage a separate Palestinian identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the
        existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical
        reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to
        continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity. Trouw (Dutch newspaper) March 31, 1977.

        The reality is that if Hamas, Hizbollah and the PLO put down their guns there would be peace. The reality also is that if Israel put down their guns there would be a massacre. As I wrote once

        Israel has a population of about 7. 9 million as of 2012, of which, “75.4% are Jewish (5.9 million), 20.6 % are Arabs (1,6 million), [and] . . . 4% ( 318,000 ) . . . ‘others.’” . Israel’s is 8,000 square miles and 263 miles long and between 9 and 71 miles wide. . The Arab states surrounding Israel and which are hostile to Israel (whether or not they have a treaty with Israel) have a combined population of over 400 million in a land area of over 5 million square miles.. In the face of these facts, the claim that Israel doe not wish peace can only be made by a madman. *** However, wanting peace does not mean abandoning reality. Israel cannot afford to make a miscalculation. “Never again” has real meaning given the charters of Hizbollah, Hamas, and the PLO calling for the destruction of Israel and the public pronouncements of other Arab countries calling for it as well.

        The criticism of Israel as a “Jewish state” and the claim that it must be dismantled is quite irrelevant unless you are prepared to also claim that Saudi Arabia and Iran must also give up their religious identity.

        The PLO says they want peace and Israel does not, it is fair to ask at least the following:

        a) To what kind of peace are you referring? If it is a Hudna peace that is not sul or peace;

        b) Why does Israel not have an equal or superior claim to this land since it
        has had a defined presence in Israel before Islam came into being, while
        the Palestinians have only had defined presence since the 1950s?;

        c) Why should Israel not believe the charters of Hamas and the PLO
        which call for the destruction of Israel set forth their true intentions? ;

        d) Is Israel not entitled to the same security as other nations?; and

        e) Since the Palestinians wish to have an Islamic state, why is
        Israel not entitled to a Jewish state?

        Thus, why should Israel be expected to negotiate a ‘just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security’ (to use the language of Security Council resolution 242 of 1967) while its many neighbors . . . openly equate Zionism to racism? Israelis should be secure . . . that their right to self-determination is protected under international law. That is, after all, exactly what most Palestinians say that they want: their self-determination as an Arab people.

        Yet the Arab Charter on Human Rights, . . . adopted in 2004, rejects Zionism . . . declaring that Zionism ‘constitute[s] a violation of human rights and pose[s] a threat to international peace and security.’ Article 2, Section 3 denounces Zionism as a ‘challenge to human dignity’ and a ‘fundamental obstacle to the realization of the basic rights of peoples.’ The charter then calls on its members to ‘condemn and endeavour to eliminate’ Zionism – not a terribly subtle call for the destruction of Israel.

        These questions must be answered by Palestinian supporters, without equivocation, if
        people wish – in the words of the John Lennon’s song – to “Give Peace a Chance.”

      • “As for your other rant, it’s actually an honor to be hated by the epitome of evil.”

        The “prophet” muhammed and his underlings hate Jews, Christians AKA Crusaders, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais, Zoroastrians and the “wrong” kind of Muslim.

        How about Morons?

        “eptiome of evil”? Let me guess.

      • Fascist Carol said:

        “‘Jewish’ Archbishop of Canterbury at Yad Vashem, because in fact the Archbishop’s father is Jewish and the Archbishop had very close relationship with Israel”

        That’s all?

        Jesus’ Mother Mary was Jewish.
        Jesus’ Father Joseph was Jewish.

        Happy Eternal Nakba Fascist Carol!

    • What a worm, but I suppose the Bish has little choice. They close ranks even when they are so blatantly and ignorantly wrong.

      And almost anything printed in the Guardian…. well….

  18. “There is reason to believe that there was disagreement with St James’ offensiveness from within the C of E Itself” – Can you say more?

    • I will tell you what’s offensive, the fact that it’s headed by a Jewish Archbishop who support Israel, the state that’s charged with genocide and war crimes against the Palestinians, Jesus Christ’s people who protected Christianity for the last 2 centuries, and the places where Christ was born, lived, died and resurrected..

      COE should decide if it’s Christian or Jewish, and act accordingly, but not have a Jewish Archbishop who visit Yad Vashem and ignore Bethlehem where Christianity was born

      • Again, the racist Stormfront Carol calls a Christian Archbishop “Jewish” while he is not, to blame his alleged support of Israel on his “race”. This is typical of antisemitic discourse, since “Jewish” obviously does not apply to the religion of the Archbishop (which is the “same” as that of Stormfront Carol, that is if she really followed it), but to his ethnic origins.
        We have here a clear case of a lunatic racist.
        Btw, I guess Stormfront Carol is the racist “Palestinian” person appearing in one of the previous videos and telling a pro-Israel Arab that she can tell an Israeli (Jew) by his speech.

      • Let me get this straight: You believe that the C of E is Jewish?
        (How does one reason or argue with a person who is prey to such delusions?

      • Babs, it’s NOT what I believe, his father is Jewish there’s NOTHING to reason

      • Stormfront Carol, your delusions about who is Jewish and who is not must not prevent you from taking your meds.
        The Archbishop is NOT Jewish and you are a RACIST.

      • Stormfront Carol, you are being more ridiculous than ever by insisting that a non-Jewish Christian Archbishop is jewish to a nearly all-Jewish blog attendance. Better take your meds.

      • Fascist Carol.

        Jesus was Jewish.
        Mary was Jewish.
        Joseph was Jewish.

        Do you acknowledge that? Or do you think they were Muslim?

      • Dear Carol what is offensive is you continuing to trumpet your ignorance.

        The head of the Church of England is the Supreme Governor.
        As you are clearly ignorant of who the Supreme Governor is, indeed as you are clearly ignorant about so many things, I will enlighten you.
        The Supreme Governor of the Church of England is H.M Queen Elizabeth II.

        It might also surprise you to discover that the Archbishop of Canterbury is Head of the Southern Province of the CoE, with the Archbishop of York being head of the Northern Province.

        As for someone Jewish becoming head of a Christian Church, I think Jesus Christ beat the current Archbishop of Canterbury by a couple of thousand years.

    • This petition is an example of the relentless Zionist hold in this country and their complete disregards to anyone’s human right to exist as human beings.

      They sent it to the Archbishop secure in the knowledge that he will carry through their Zionist agenda, expecting him to rubber stamp it and stop the church from joining the rest of the world in the UN year of Solidarity with the Palestinians.

      This petition to the Archbishop should be the test to show whether he support Israel that’s charged with Genocide and war Crimes against the Palestinians, or he support the Palestinians (Christ’s people’s right to exist).

      Here’s confirmation of receipt of my email ‘This automated response to your message confirms that it has been received at the Archbishop of Canterbury’s office.’ looking forward to their response.

      • Fascist Carol,

        If Israel were the problem, then your Islamists would be living in peace with Non-Zionists elsewhere in the World.

        Are your Islamists living in peace with Christians, HIndus, Buddhists, Bahais and other Muslims (sunni/shiite/wahabbi/salafis)???

        Clearly no. Your Islamofascists and FAKE “Christians” are at War with the entire world. Your FAKE “Christians” pray to Marx/Lenin/Mao/Stalin/Troksky and al qada.

        Where are the rallys in St. James for the Christians of Pakistan, Nigeria, the Copts of Egypt, the Christians of Nigeria?

      • Stormfront Carol, hate of Jews appears in all your rants, even for those who are not Jews but express any kind of love for Israel.
        Happy eternal stay in Hell.

      • Btw, Stormfront Carol, despite your antisemitic permanent ranting, and the permanent ranting and internation bribery of nations by Muslim countries, Israel has never been charged with any war crime nor genocide. Accusations by antisemites, that is correct. But hey!, if we believed them, Jews wiuld bake matzot in Christian children blood!
        So remember to take your meds and get off Stormfrint reading.

      • What is the difference, Edward, between radical Islam and radical Zionism? You toss around the terms “fascist” and “Islamofascism.” Isn’t it a fact that the revisionist Zionists, who have dominated Israeli governments and ideology since 1977, modeled themselves after fascism and the Nazis?

        The Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky was a devoted admirer of Italy’s fascist strongman Benito Mussollini. Jabotinsky’s disciple, Menachem Begin, who was the commander of the Irgun Zwai Leumi Jewish terror gang, and who in 1977 became prime minister of Israel, described Jabotinsky as “a speaker, a writer, a philosopher, a statesman, a soldier, a linguist…But to those of us who were his pupils, he was not only their teacher, but also the bearer of their hope.” Begin’s biographer, Eric Silver, added; “There was a darker side to [Jabotinsky’s] philosophy: blood, fire and steel, the supremacy of the leader, discipline and ceremony, the manipulation of the masses, racial exclusivity as the heart of the nation.” [Silver, ‘Begin,’ p. 11]

        Now exactly what are you talking about?

      • richardmillett

        Not sure you have the correct interpretation of Jabotinsky, but certainly an interesting discussion. For Jabotinsky it was all about military discipline as a form of defence. Jews had never had that before. He and Begin clashed I believe as, I think, Jabotinsky found Begin to be too aggressive in his outlook. For Jabotinsky it wall all about the iron wall of defence, a bit like Israel’s security wall today. Begin took that philosophy further as you recognise.

      • Same false quotes repeated from antisemitic websites, Joe! And some real ones of people without any real power or influence, religious crackpots who would not kill a fly.
        Now on the other side, what do we have? Hamas, the lords of Gazastan, Abbas the lord of PAstan, Hezbollah the lords of Lebastan… All armed to the teath and vowing to destroy the Jewish state that they will never recognise when they won’t just genocide all its Jews and probably some more, as they do in Syria.
        So go back to your exercise-books, Joe. Try another pseudo when you come back.

      • Difference between radical Zionism and radical Islam? About just as much as between a radical genius and a radical idiot. Or radical good and radical bad. Or radical modern and radical medieval.
        We know that you would hesitate between the two, Joe, so get a clue and come back with another pseudo, of course.

      • Brian Goldfarb

        Re Reflection 88: ” Isn’t it a fact that the revisionist Zionists, who have dominated Israeli governments and ideology since 1977, modeled themselves after fascism and the Nazis?” Is it a fact? Richard suggests that your interpretation of Jabotinsky’s thought is a little off the ball.

        As you don’t provide any evidence, but merely assertion, I thought that I’d do a little research on your behalf. You will notice that none of the sources are from Wikipedia, as there are those who feel that it is often a little suspect as far as its editing, etc, are concerned. So, I’ve gone for Jewish sources, but ones not likely to gild the lily. The first point to note is that one of the sources I looked at (it might be one of the Wiki ones) confirms Richard’s view of Jabotinsky’s reaction to Begin.

        Then we need to note that “revisionism” need only mean a rethink, and carries no necessary connotations of reaction (as in a moving away, or, as I suspect you would wish us to believe, a moving rightwards – as in towards a fascist stance – especially given that labour zionism, the majority view then, was conventionally socialist). The first two links below stress the “rethink” aspect.

        This is especially important in the light of the third link, which is to Joseph Trumpledor. He & Jabotinsky met and found a common purpose in the idea of a muscular Zionism, one which would defend Jewish setlements in the Yishuv – which is how Trumpledor came to meet his end, defending Kfar Giladi and Tel Hai.

        Okay, Reflection 88, this is my evidence. Where’s yours? I got mine in 2 minutes on the net. Shouldn’t take you any longer, should it?

      • It will take him forever to find any evidence as he has based his faith on. words and not on facts. Anyone idiot enough to come up with a “88” alias to a mainly jewish blog in order to wave a red flag does not deserve any consideration.

  19. Good blog Richard. I believe that any appeals to the better nature of someone like Winkett is a waste of time – she has clearly allied herself with one side, for reasons of her own and is unlikely to be persuaded that perhaps she was in the wrong. Quite often, funding for their favourite causes is what makes people completely abandon all common sense and decency in this way.

    As to the racist individual who keeps posting here – Carol – why are you people giving her the responses and attention she craves – don’t feed the troll.

  20. Cityca is of course right . Trolls live for the response . It’s their oxygen . Deny them an acknowledgement of their existence and they wither and are forced to find some other source of interaction to let them know they are alive at least on the blogosphere . Ignore them and they will shrivel up and disappear .

  21. Brian Goldfarb

    I notice that Carol has the time to respond at 6.21 pm today, 7 Jan, but not to my comment at 11.17 am, 7 Jan. So, I’ll respond to what she doesn’t say anyway.

    I asked her for a definition of Holocaust, and she responded with an irrelevant rant about genocide, as though using a different word somehow settled the issue. At no time has she provided any evidence of what she asserts is happening in Gaza and the West Bank.

    Genocide has been defined as the attempt to destroy a population either physically or culturally or both. Thus the Nazi concentration and death camps as well as the physical destruction of synagogues and other cultural symbols of the Jewish population of Europe. That some synagogues survived and that some cultural symbols also survived (books, torah scrolls, records of possessions) and that as many as a third of Europe’s Jews (somehow) escaped the slaughter doesn’t negate this definition nor the scale of the attempted genocide. (And there are numerous other groups to whom this analysis could, with profit, be applied: Native Americans; Australian Aboriginals; Cambodians under the Khmer Rouge, etc.)

    However, when challenged, Carol fails to produce either a definition (and mine is but a shadow of the whole which can, if required, be written out) or any evidence. So, Carol, if there is a genocide or a holocaust taking place in Gaza and the West Bank, where are the mass graves? where are the concentration and/or death camps? (and don’t cite the refugee camps at me, blame those on Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, et al: the Israelis, to their discredit, did as the UN told them and left them alone. They should have torn them down and provided proper housing…) Where are the destroyed mosques? the piles of dead Imams? the graves of dead teachers of the Koran? the ashes of burnt copies of the Koran? How come, after 46 1/2 years of occupation (actually, only 40 of Gaza), there are far more Gazans and Moslem inhabitants of the West Bank than before 1967, if a genocide has been taking place? How come the teachers in West Bank Palestinian schools are able to teach hatred of Israel, Israelis and Jews, if there is a cultural genocide taking place there?

    Please note that I do not expect a response that in any way resembles an answer to the specific points made and questions asked. Any reply will repeat, possibly in different words, what has already been asserted. It’s what those who don’t, actually, have any evidence do: they rely on ideology and assertion to convince those who have open minds.

    Something which to the likes of Carol is a mystery.

    • St. James of Piccadilly should read and respond and ask forgiveness.

      • I’m convinced Carol is the racist “Palestinian” seen on one of the the videos aggressively answering a pro Israel Arab protesting their racist PR stunt and telling him she can recognize an Israeli (Jew) by his pro-Israel speech. A racist statement again.

    • Brian Goldfarb

      As it is now January 13, early evening, 5 clear days since I posted my comment, just above this, I take it that Carol doesn’t have a definition, let alone evidence, to support her assertion of a “holocaust” or of “genocide being committed” by the Israelis in Gaza or on the West Bank.

      Not that I’m surprised by her silence, you understand, just curious as to what her “definition” and “evidence” would have been, had she had either one or the other, or both.

      • Insane people rarely use sane definitions of words. These insane definitions are the smokescreen that hides reality beyond their grasp.

      • Brian Goldfarb

        Jose, no of course they don’t. But I wouldn’t describe Carol as un(or in)sane. There are lots of words and phrases I might use, but I am aware that I’m in polite company here, so maybe not.

        What I do find fascinating is that the likes of Carol will trade assertions and unfounded claims for ages, but run into trouble when persistently, and politely, asked for evidence. This is, of course because they have none, and when forced into a corner on this basis, tend to go very quiet.

        I stress “polite” because it is important not to give such people the chance to bridle at the labels being stuck on them (however appropriate we might believe them to be, they, of course, will take exception to them: the likes of Carol – unless actually and incontestably so outed – will bridle at labels such as “stormfront” or “nazi”). Rather, they must be forced to answer the questions: answer them or quit the field.

        Which is why I take Carol’s silence on the matter of definitions and evidence as an admission of defeat. She won’t change her mind, but is less likely to attempt to join a forum such as this again in a hurry when she knows she will be faced by such demands over and over again.

      • Hi, Brian! Being polite with Stormfront Carol just reinforces her delusion to be good company. She isn’t. Of course she is not able to answer any reasonable request to support her blatant lies. She is just happy to make Jews waste their time on her drivel.

      • Brian Goldfarb

        Having had another look at Carol’s reply to me, if Hajo Meyer and the Kuala Lumpur Tribunal is the whole of her definition and evidence, then no wonder she’s loudly silent. This is not the place to deconstruct either, but should she deign to respond…

      • Brian Goldfarb

        Okay, Jose, “polite” was the wrong word. Rather, labelling them as “stormfront” or whatever, however accurately, just, for me, plays their game. I’ve found to my cost, in terms of the my time wasted until I get back on track, is greater than my gain my just avoiding such labels.

        But that’s me.

      • Keeping them deluded about what they are may be polite but doesn’t help anyone. They’ll continue to believe their racist discourse is acceptable here while it isn’t. and David Icke may vary, so I direct those people to the correct site to express their opinions.

      • Brian Goldfarb

        Actually, Jose, I’m not writing for the likes of Carol: I care less what she thinks or (up to a point) what groups she belongs to, etc. I’m aware (from what friends have said to me) that there are many people out there who read us and don’t comment, but need arguments for the dinner table or are genuinely unsure and need persuading. They, and not the Carols of this world, are my target audience. Thus, the more I can tempt them to fail to really make their case, the better for our side. I don’t want them foaming at the mouth and chewing the carpet, but exposed as ignoramuses, who wouldn’t know a definition or a piece of evidence if it sat up and smacked them round the face.

        That’s my approach. In support of yours, a noted and respected UK writer urged me to lay off a different commenter who, she suggested, was under-educated and just loved seeing her name in print. Maybe so, I replied, but I just don’t want them having the last word, and being able to go back to their mates and saying, “see, they have no answer for us”.

      • Educating the fools has been a commendable but worthless task for centuries. Once Stormfront Carol has proven she could not be educated and comes here only to foam at the mouth and spew her hate-links, why should we try to make her life sweeter? The sweeter we are, the longer she will dwell, like a shark in fishy waters.
        Just a reminder for you: what do you call someone who does the same thing over and over and expects different results.

      • ” what do you call someone who does the same thing over and over and expects different results…”

        George Kelly, the founder of Personal Construct Psychology, called this hostility – he meant to reality:
        “..Hostility is a matter of insisting that your constructs are valid, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary..”

        Kelly’s definition of a psychological disorder: “Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation.”

  22. Fatah official confirms what we already know . Peace agreement with Israel and recovering west bank is just the first step towards total recovery of all the land .

  23. Pingback: BBC Radio 4 enables anti-Israel fest whitewash | BBC Watch

  24. League table of Christian Persecution . No sign of Israel . West Bank and Gaza in at 34 and blame laid fair and square with Islamic extremism .

  25. Hey Guys,

    Your wall got mentioned on the Channel One news last night – not exactly the first item, but there it was. So now I’m not the only Israeli who knows about it.

    Now a word to Carol, who has been terribly abused on this excellent blog over the last couple of weeks, but who I’m sure means well. Why would you suggest that Archbishop of Canterbury is Jewish?

    Firstly, his mother is not Jewish. Do you dispute that fact? Are you adopting a Nazi definition of a Jew as being anyone with any “Jewish blood” on either side? I shall not even use the term Nuremberg Laws, because at that time Hitler himself hesitated before using such a definition. I’m sure your heart is in the right place, but do you realize the implications of adopting such a position?

    Secondly, let’s say just for a moment that you and Gerhard Wagner are correct and that Reverend Justin Welby is in part a Jew or perhaps a “mischling“ according to completely discredited Racial theories, Let’s imagine that his Jewish genes are so powerful that all those years he’s spent thinking he is a Christian and learning and teaching about Christianity are as nothing. so what? In your mind does a Jew or half-Jew or quarter-Jew not have the right to an opinion? Is Obama not entitled to an opinion regarding Islam if he has Muslim roots? Why should only “pure” Christians be entitled to have an opinion on such matters? And finally, would you be berating Welby as “a Jew” had he adopted a position more to your liking?

    Carol, like I said, I have no doubt that your intentions are good, but what the hell are you talking about?