Yachad’s Ben White love-in.

What to do about Yachad?

This UK based organisation that calls itself “pro-Israel, pro-peace” had an inauspicious start in the UK.

On October 31st last year at a panel event at UCL Yachad’s Hannah Weisfeld endorsed two of Israel’s main demonisers; Israeli human rights organisation Yesh Din and the vicious anti-Israel website +972 Magazine.

And at SOAS on January 30th this year on a panel to discuss Is BDS working? Weisfeld hinted that she just might endorse a boycott of part of Israel’s Jewish community when she said of the “settlements”:

“I think we would be having a very different conversation in this room if the BDS movement was about a targeted boycott. I am not saying that I would necessarily support it, but I think the entire debate would be different, because I think the position would be a position that does not put people on the defensive because it recognises the legitimacy of the other side to exist and I think that the level of criminality that exists inside the Green Line, over the Green Line is not distinguished…is exactly the reason BDS will not succeed in ending the occupation.”

The legality of the “settlements” is a valid argument to have in my book but not to condemn outright a boycott of Jews is unforgivable and in my book “I am not saying that I would necessarily support it” is tantamount to saying “I might support a boycott of Jews living on the West Bank”.

Seeing that Yachad calls itself “pro-Israel” and that Israel needs all the friends it can get in a time of increasing anti-Semitism not so cleverly disguised as anti-Zionism Yachad should have been given time to prove its credentials.

We’ve tried, we’ve listened but Yachad has done Israel no favours at all so far.

Yachad is pro-Israel to the extent that, unlike the Palestine Solidarity Campaign for example, it believes the Jewish state should exist. Incidentally, I have heard it put that the reason that some mainstream Jewish organisations embrace Yachad is that they see Yachad as a buffer to stopping young British Jews joining the PSC.

Some endorsement!

One of Yachad’s main arguments is that if Israel does not vacate the West Bank Israel will inevitably lose its Jewish and democratic status as the West Bank’s alleged 2.5 million Palestinians will, when added to Israel’s own Arab population, eventually outnumber Israel’s Jews.

Such a calculation has been deconstructed in this study by Bar-Ilan University which puts the number of Palestinians on the West Bank at 1.41 million.

I wanted to compare Yachad’s claim to the BIU study so I sent an email to Yachad on March 27th asking for their source. I received no response.

I did receive an invite to Yachad’s upcoming events at The Jewish Museum (June 10th), the Marjorie and Arnold Ziff Community Centre, Leeds (June 14th), Finchley Reform Synagogue (June 17th), Hampstead Synagogue (June 18th) and the London Jewish Cultural Centre (June 19th) on the proviso that we “start a conversation within UK Jewry about these issues which are at the heart of the ongoing conflict”.

First, Yachad wants these issues to be discussed amongst “UK Jewry”. What about the views of the UK’s Muslim and Christian etc. friends of Israel? Yachad may as well hang a “Only Jews welcome here” sign outside their events. And, yet, Yachad has the nerve to compare Israel to an apartheid state.

Second, is it not the height of arrogance for Yachad to presume that the democratic wishes of Israel’s electorate can be so easily overridden by “a conversation within UK Jewry”?

Supporters of Yachad could do no better than make aliyah and win hearts and minds in Israel in order to change government policy. Jews in the UK have no vote and little, if any, influence on Israeli government policy. Yachad should be having the “conversation” in Israel where it might actually count.

Supporting Yesh Din and +972 Magazine is one thing and scaremongering over the demographics of the region is another but Yachad can’t get much lower than reaching out to one of Israel’s main enemies and demonisers; Ben White.

It did just that on Twitter when on April 27th, in the name of “diversity”, it asked White to comment on their new blog and, in particular, a piece by David Landau which makes the scaremongering argument over the demographics of the region I have outlined above:

The piece, by the way, attracted just four comments.

As Yachad is all for “diversity” it is a surprise they didn’t reach out to far-right fascists because the difference between their views and some of the views of Ben White is minimal.

Like those on the extreme far-right White is a hardcore anti-Israel polemicist who wants the Jewish state destroyed. And in his book Israeli Apartheid: A Beginner’s Guide White cites an essay by Roger Garaudy who was fined the equivalent of $20,000 by a French court for questioning the Holocaust.

On June 29th last year White was due to share a platform with homophobic preacher Sheikh Raed Salah at a panel discussion until Salah could not appear due to having been arrested after entering this country despite being on a banned list.

Salah eventually won his deportation case despite, inter alia, believing that homosexuality is a “great crime” which signals “the start of the collapse of every society” and laughing at the memory of taunting a Jewish teacher with a Swastika.

White has also written “I do not consider myself an anti-Semite, yet I can also understand why some are.”

And White tweeted this comment in light of Habima’s upcoming recent performance at The Globe:

Here is that “massive picture of Howard Jacobson’s face”:

As Joseph W writes over at Harry’s Place

“Ben White appears to be linking Howard Jacobson – an English Jew – and Israeli Jewish Habima actors, by aesthetics and looks. If you are aware of the history of antisemitism, you will know that a great deal of attention was given to the physical appearance of Jews, who were portrayed as people whom one could legitimately hate based on how they look.”

Incidentally, for anyone looking to defend White on the basis that he might have been talking about the expression on Jacobson’s face here’s Joseph W again pointing out that White didn’t mention Jacobson’s expression, simply his face.

So, if you are going to any of those Yachad events keep in mind the sickening company Yachad keeps; all in the cause of “diversity”!


306 responses to “Yachad’s Ben White love-in.

  1. Y don’t think you are very well placed to criticise people on account of the company they keep Richard.

  2. Commentary101

    Mr. Millet, as a long-time reader, and a great fan, I just wanted to say: Thank you!
    I have several acquaintances who, sadly, support, or have joined “Yachad”. I hope the information you’ve provided, especially that concerning Ben White(who, they all still agree, is a nothing short of a closeted(but now, barely) anti-Semite), will be ample proof for their need to sever themselves from that nefarious org.

  3. Richard, you’re dead right on Yachad. Their mistake, I think, is that they want to echo the Israelis who are most opposed to their own government. They don’t understand that it’s one thing for for a citizen to criticize the country in which they live, as they are willing to accept the consequences of their actions; it’s quite another for a Diaspora Jew, safe in their Hampstead armchair or Hoxton futon, to do so.
    However I think you’re mistaken to demand than Yachad include ‘UK’s Muslim and Christian etc. friends of Israel’ in their discussions. This would open the door for them to pack any Jewish venue with Muslim and Christian antisemites who call themselves principled anti-Zionists, and they greatly outnumber our friends.

    • But Israel is the National Home of Jews in their Hampstead armchair and Hoxton futon isn’t it ? Are you saying people can’t criticise their own national home ?

      • richardmillett

        Israel is the home of some Jews. Like Yachad, you may not have have noticed that a fifth of Israel isn’t Jewish.

      • C’mon Rich, in the Zionist context you know the drill:

        a. Non –Jewish criticism of Israel is antisemitic
        b. Jews who criticise Israel are self-haters. Or if you want to be a sophisticate like Norman Geras, you can call them ‘as a Jew’ Jews.

        Not hard 😉

  4. Jonathan Hoffman

    I guess Yachad will be plugging White’s book next:


    Nothing would surprise me where Yachad is concerned.

  5. Speaking of the company Richard keeps…Hi jonny boy.

  6. Hang on a moment. Bare with me I’m not very bright. I mean bear with me. I continually hear that Israel is the National Home of the Jewish People. Is that so or is it not so ? If it is not so are you saying that the Jews of Hampstead and Hoxton are not really people ?

  7. I told you I am not very bright I fucked that up ha ha ha. I meant of course… If it is so are you telling me the Jews of Hampstead and Hoxton are not really people ? Help me out here Daniel.

  8. Daniel have you ever thought of making aliyah and moving to Israel ?

  9. Richard:

    One of Yachad’s main arguments is that if Israel does not vacate the West Bank Israel will inevitably lose its Jewish and democratic status as the West Bank’s alleged 2.5 million Palestinians will, when added to Israel’s own Arab population, eventually outnumber Israel’s Jews.
    Such a calculation has been deconstructed in this study by Bar-Ilan Universitywhich puts the number of Palestinians on the West Bank at 1.41 million.

    Does that mean you’re ready for the Anschluss? Or for the OSS?

    Like those on the extreme far-right White is a hardcore anti-Israel polemicist who wants the Jewish state destroyed.

    Name me one (just ONE) Far Right European political party that doesn’t now support Israel and Zionism. (Hint: there is one actually but I doubt if you’ll know it).

    See amongst other things: Yad Vashem – the top tourist attraction for Europe’s neo-Nazi and far-Right politicians.

  10. Daniel Marks


    This was truly an excellent posting raising many important issues.

    My attitude towards left-wing Jewish organizations abroad is a little ambiguous. I shall try to explain:

    Firstly, I have no objection to a non-Jew criticizing Israel or parts of it. Nor do I have any hostility towards an Englishman or Frenchman who happens to have been born Jewish condemning Israel’s policy as being bad for him personally, his country of birth or even the world. However, I take serious exception to Jews who revile Israeli government policy as being “bad for Israel”. Nothing vexes me more than the ignoramuses whose knowledge of the Middle East is limited to what they’ve read in the Daily Express or seen on the box struggling valiantly to “save us from ourselves”. It angers me because it is born of a hypocrisy that conceals their true intentions.

    In the case of US Jews I believe that organizations such as J Street have the potential to cause Israel some harm. Thank G-d we have so many decent non-Jewish supporters there to more than compensate for the damage what our “well meaning” brothers are bringing about. They are today’s righteous gentiles and the fact that they may wish me to accept Jesus as my “personal savior” is more than balanced by the good they do. As a Jew I’m 100% positive that he wasn’t the messiah, but if it turns out that he was, I shall cheerfully admit my mistake.

    Regarding similar organizations that exist in the UK, Argentina or other countries that have Jewish communities but whose foreign policy is basically unimportant, I feel less perturbed. I consider the Jewish community of the UK to be facing far graver existential threats (demographic, spiritual, etc) than those facing Israel. Therefore, if a hundred Jewish kids get together in London to denounce settlement building or equate the policy of the Israeli government with Apartheid, but one boy meets one girl and they eventually get married and have their 1.65 Jewish children, I say that it is better that the meeting took place than if it hadn’t.

  11. Daniel have you ever thought of moving to Israel ?

  12. The real demographic time bomb is the million or so sane Jewish Israelis. Add them to the Arabs in the occupied territories and Daniel is fucked

  13. Norman Cohen

    Having nothing of intelligence to say more ad hominem from rich or should that be real real nutjob or maybe even Rich Armbach. Why don’t you repeat the comments about anti-Semitsm that you posted on the JC Website so that everyone may see what a complete idiot you are.

  14. Richard,

    can you clarify whether in fact Yachad did delete those tweets: I read on facebook they are still there.

  15. Norman Cohen

    By the way both Daniel and I live in Israel you on the other hand judging by the stuff you post probably inhabit a sewer.

  16. Who is it who comments on this site and +doesn’t+ know Daniel lives in Israel (asides idiots)?

  17. Norman Cohen

    Oh and by the way eveb Peace Now admits quote: “Due to its close proximity to Jerusalem, Ma’ale Adumim is viewed by most Israelis as a suburb or neighborhood of Jerusalem.” … Many observers expect that under any future peace agreement Ma’ale Adumim will remain part of Israel, as was the case under the Clinton proposal and the Geneva Initiative (with a land swap to compensate the Palestinians for the territory).

  18. Specially as these sane Jewish Israelis tend to be young.

    Daniel you are old ( you were born old ) your hands are grey. We have heard your dirty stories. three thousand years, three thousand years….. of your God damned glory.

    Oh and while we are here…God and even G-d is not a reffering expression. And existence isn’t a predicate. Read your Kant old man.

  19. Jose bickering wtih you and sanity are incompatible. I choose sanity

  20. Norman Cohen

    You were never are not and never will be sane – poor choice.

  21. Jose you repeat them…in total not your edited version o))

  22. Daniel is conchover right ? Do you live in Israel ?

  23. Norman Cohen

    you have no answer so you hide in your sewer – good remain there.

  24. Norman Cohen

    rich – only an idiot repeats a question that has been answered.

    • Daniel Marks

      Well done Norman. You seem to have found a better approach to addressing the idiot than I ever could. He indeed seems to have returned to his sewer – poor rats!

      • Daniel

        just to contradict everyone – I’d be sorry to see rich go –

        Why? Because he inspired you to publish some of your high-class excellently written arguments.

        And selfish egotist I am whenever I find one of those, the sun seems to shine a bit brighter.

        And no I am not trying to be sarcastic neither am I facetious – I try to express honest admiration and realize that I am not really up to it.

  25. Please tell me this silly squabbling isn’t normal. And yes, this is coming to
    you direct from Israel.

    • Daniel Marks


      Just to echo Norman’s point, this is a first-class page with some very interesting comments. I recommend that we ignore the “Rich” crap and responses (including mine) that they provoked and focus on what are several very important topics. They include the right of Jews living abroad to criticize the policies of a democratically elected Israeli government.

      Even our old friend Gertie (of Bridlington-on-Sea) was kind enough to copy and paste a link that is worthy of some note to Tony Greenstein’s excellent blog in which he raises the question of European right wing support of Israel.

      I’m sure we’re all quite keen to hear your take on these and other matters.

      • […] in which he raises the question of European right wing support of Israel.

        Hardly a ‘question’, Daniel. More a matter of FACT. Apart from Jobbik, ALL Far Right, anti-immigrant and former [cough!] antisemitic brownshirt parties now enthusiastically support the Jewish State. Seeing just how far Israeli politics has veered to the Right in the last 30 years that should come as no surprise.

        But Israel has never been very picky about its sources of support. File under ‘John Hagee’, ‘SA Apartheid regime’, ‘Iran’s Shah’ and other rubrics.

      • Gert

        as I belong to the state that has the copyright on brown shirts would you mind telling me, where ours root for Israel?

        We had two members of the Bundestag an one former member of it valiantly trying to fight their way into Gaza with the Mavi Marmara flotilla. All three are dedicated members of Die Linke (The Left) an organisation that seems to have a lot more than its fair share of those who still dream the dream of communism.

        As said above I insist that due humility is owed to us when it comes to Brown Shirts. Either what you have in the UK are no true brown shirts to start with or they are apostates.

      • Norman Cohen


        Daniel as the saying goes “they don’t like it up ’em.

        Now we have gert attempting to conflate the Right winfg parties Israel with the far ight European facsist parties who are supporting Israel but not because of Israel’s policies a theme which presumably he took from the anti-Semite Israel Shamir -www.israelshamir.net/English/right-wing_zionists.htm . Rangers supporters support Israel because Celtic supporters support the PLO.
        The far Right parties per se do not support Israel only when it suits their book the enemy of my enemy and all that. However as this clearly shows the far right hate Israel/Jews as much as they hate Islam http://hurryupharry.org/2012/06/08/spokesthug-for-greek-neo-nazis-compares-opponents-to-jews/ but sometimes its convenient to say they are friends of Israel – with friends like them who needs gert and rich?

  26. Norman Cohen

    arcaneone – if you have a better method of dealing with malicious unwanted trolls I will only be too pleased to hear of it. You cannot ignore it because it beleievs that gives it tacit approval to continue infesting a website. You cannot argue with it, it has no cognitive powers to speak of so you must use the only language it understands and if that means regrettably coming down to its level then so be it.

  27. Daniel do you live in Israel ?

  28. This is an important question as it impinges on the question of whether Jews living abroad have the right to criticise a democratically elected Israeli govt.

    btw there is no such place as Bridlington on sea

    • richardmillett

      Can Daniel vote in Israel might be a more relevant question.

      • Daniel Marks

        Hi Richard,

        In answer to your question, on the day of national elections I vote in Maale Adumim in the same way as any other Israeli citizen votes in his home town. We also have local municipal elections, members of the Histadrut have trade union elections and those who belong to most political parties have primary elections to choose their Knesset lists.

        I’m guessing you already knew that. Regards,


      • richardmillett

        Just like YachadUK then! Over to you, Rich.

      • Daniel

        who belong to most political parties have primary elections to choose their Knesset lists.

        Now this is an interesting bit of info for me – how long have they done it?

        I am asking since German parties try it every now and then but somehow it seems never to really take root. I don’t know why but would guess that the “elders” in the parties don’t want to give up the privilege of wheeling and dealing it out.

      • Daniel Marks

        Hi Silke,

        They are called primaries and are loosely based on the US model. Naturally, they are optional and not all the parties hold primaries, though there was talk of legislation to give financial incentives to parties holding primaries.

        Like most systems they have their advantages and their disadvantages and there are often allegations of “deals”, manipulation, corruption, etc. In my opinion they are not the best method of choosing Knesset lists and I’d be quite happy for that to be done by a smaller forum as it was before the mid 80s. Not belonging to a political party I’ve never taken part, but some of my family have.

      • thanks Daniel

        choosing or appointing a boss, no matter for which kind of group including in industry, is apt to suffer from backroom deals. As long as there is enough wiggle room for mistakes to happen and thus open space for the unexpected bloomer things are fine.

        Just guessing I’d say primaries give a leg up to telegenic people and that may be a strong argument when it comes to the highest office which when all is said and done must be held by somebody good at speaking to people.

        When it is done on all levels however then I’d assume the not conforming to current fashion ones would never get a chance.

        Parties here have also experimented with putting no-party-member-experts on secure places on their lists of candidates – so beware unless of course you want such a turn of events.

  29. Norman Cohen

    rich as much as you would like it not to be and one ses the maliciousness in your question Israeli citizens living in Judea and Samaria (which is not abroad) have as much right to vote in elections as do Israeli citizens living in Tel Aviv Netanya etc. This applies whether those Israeli citizens are Jews or Arabs or any other ethnicity.

    Next time maybe try a real question.

  30. Norman Cohen

    To get back to the question in hand simply being Jewish does not does not give you any rights over what the Government of Israel does or does not do.
    If you wish to vote in the elections of Israel or have a say in how it is run then become a citizen with all that that entails.
    Having the right to be a citizen just because you are
    a member of a specific group is not unique. For example an American of Irish descent who although born outside of Ireland has an entitlement to Irish citizenship through an Irish-born grandparent
    No one expects the Government of Ireland to be obliged
    to have to pay heed to the American Community of Irish descent living in the USA with an unexercised right to citizenship when framing its policies so why should the democratically elected government of Israel have to pay heed to the Jewish diaspora who are not its citizens?

    • I can’t think of a more real and simple question. That Daniel is scared to answer it speaks volumes.

      Daniel do you live in Israel ?

      • Of course Daniel lives in Israel

        Who was it which ancient writer wrote that devastating criticism of the sophists and their sophistric shenanigans?

        You being a philosopher, know it for sure. If not, that should explain a lot.

      • Plato. The dialogues

      • Rich,

        Daniel moved from Albion to Israel when he was 18. He lives in the settlement of Ma’ale Adumim. It’s hardly a secret!

      • ich meinte jemand späteren aus der Zeit als die Sophisten (oder waren es andere?) die Rhetorikschulen dominierten.

  31. Oooh he is so subtle this rich man. This is a trick question, the clever little tyke. Does Daniel consider that Ma’aleh Adumim is a legitimate part of Israel, he asks pithily. I doubt if Daniel is liable to be scared by anything you can cook up, rich man.

    • It isn’t a trick question at all Until this afternoon I had never heard of Ma’al what’s it. Even now I don’t have a clue where it is. I am merely asking Daniel if he lives in Israel. What is difficult or tricky about that ?

      • Norman Cohen

        Liar – I told you I lived in Maale Adumim on the JC Website days ago. I have answered your question below now tell us what your point is? That is if you have one.

  32. Norman Cohen

    Please tell us what the point of your question is? Maale Adumim is certainly not in Palestine there is now and never has been such a country. It is also certainly not in Jordan because Jordan has given up all claims illegal as they were to it. There is only one country that it could belong to as specified in the manadate for Palestine and that it is the one in whose possession it now is.
    Anyway why am I wasting my time arguing with a brain dead troll?

  33. Dunno why are you ?

    Daniel do you live in Israel ?

  34. Norman Cohen

    Well troll to what country does it belong or are you too scared to tell us.

  35. Norman Cohen

    rich waiting ….

  36. Norman Cohen

    By the way rich what does it matter if Maale Adumim is or is not formally within the State of Israel since israel has not annexed Judea and Samaria if the laws of Israel prescribe that an Israeli citizen living in Maale Adumim can vote in Elections to the Knesset?

  37. Norman Cohen

    Oh and by the way that extends to Israeli Arab citizens living in Pisgat Ze’ev too!

  38. Norman Cohen

    Obviously rich can’t comprehend I expect he’ll repeat his question again. I think Daniel is ignoring him or more probably has better things to do with his time than engage with a sewer dweller.

  39. Norman Cohen

    Well rich …

  40. Norman Cohen

    Well Rich let’s say he does not live in the State of Israel – what’s your point?

  41. Norman Cohen

    For anyone wondering I am posting one liners becasue rich has trouble comprehending any comment that is longer than two/three lines – he shows this by typing “yawn”.

  42. […] and the vicious anti-Israel website +972 Magazine.

    Oh, Richard, Richard, Richard, for the love of G-d, quit with the hysterical hyperbole already. These 972maggers are committed Zionists alright. They just happen to see what all the world can see: that Israel’s settler project will ultimately lead to its demise or at least descent into collective madness.
    It’s like being inside Da Bunker here sometimes: myopia that would make the dying hangers-on of the… ahem… ‘third reich’… BLUSH!

    Is this what you want this blog to be? A safe haven for the loony Zionist fringe? I’m almost nostalgic for the ‘it’s De Gamas!’ phase of this blog!

    Now you have Avraham Burg, former Speaker of the Knesset, stating goods from the West Bank aren’t Kosher. Move with the times, why don’t you?

    • richardmillett

      972 Mag is mostly hardcore anti-Zionist writers. Read Joseph Dana. Burg is also anti-Zionist.

      • Burg is also anti-Zionist.

        Sheesh, how many times do I have to ask you not to make me piss myself: it’s what uncontrollable laughter does to people!

        Burg, an anti-Zionist… Ringadingadingdingdingding!

      • richardmillett

        Find a recent quote where he’s supports Israel’s existence.

    • Norman Cohen


      you have to be joking right. +972 claims it reports from Israel and Palestine. Where is Palestine?

    • Gert that is exactly what it is. The lunatic Zionist fringe’s favoured pub. We will be writing about this at some length. How astute of you.

  43. Norman Cohen

    Caught out in a lie rich has now deleted a post where he claimed he had never heard of Maale Adumim before this afternoon. Well rich what’s your point of your question now that it has been answered.

  44. Norman Cohen

    “that Israel’s settler project will ultimately lead to its demise or at least descent into collective madness” no that’s your projection. The Arabs started the lie and the left have taken it up – there were no settlements in existence in 1964 when the PLO was set up to liberate Palestine – what was this Palestine they were hoping to liberate if not the State of Israel ana despite all the wonderful talk we have had since then the Arab position has not changed one iota.

    • as Michael Oren once quipped in a book talk (before he became ambassador)

      As a historian I have enough problems predicting the past let alone the future.

      Since then I, a lover history books of all kinds, consider Mr. Oren to be a wise man, a trustworthy historian aware of what can be done and what is impossible.

      Once in a while I love reading back what was predicted about current outcomes, there are very very few examples that somebody got it right. Usually it was a voice unheard at the time and undug later for media purposes. And if it was the dominant worldwide opinion like America is in Decline then it is one that I first heard convincingly argued in school some 60 years ago.

      I just listened to a superb reading of Kafka’s In der Strafkolonie (penalty colony) and was struck again as when I read it first of how it seems to predict all the horrors of our 3rd Reich period provided one overlooks all the other connections it has to his other writings.

      But I bet that if one culture chatbot gets tired of always referring to Die Verwandlung (Metamorphosis) to show of his culturedness and starts peddling the Penalty Colony then it will soon get the aura of having successfully predicted the future.

  45. Isn’t it nice that we all of us are allowed to watch how like embraces like?

    We shouldn’t grudge rich and Gert their moments of bliss.

    I really look forward to them finding out that they both share a preference for peeing on themselves. Once they will start comparing their different techniques I’ll feel rewarded.

  46. Just for a little light relief , over at Greensteins sewer blog ,Bridlington Gertie has been tagged as the faithful Sancho Panza riding on a donkey whenever the need to spring to the defence of his master ( Greenstein ) .
    Greenstein reckons its Atzmon . Actually it’s quite clever whoever it is ,as Panza means belly in Spanish and Greenstein had just blogged about being in Hendon title ‘ in the belly of the beast ‘
    If it is Atzmon , he sure is ripping up the wretched humourless Greenstein .
    Just imagine , two Jewish antisemites going head to head for title of top A/S .
    Check for Anonymous starting each comment with Tonyle . Atzmon according to Greenstein .
    Great entertainment .

  47. Anyone fancy my rather ragged copy of ‘From Time Immemorial’? 50 p will do.

    Norman won’t be a taker: he’s got ten copies (bufftday prezzies, eh!) already…

  48. Daniel Marks

    Thanks Silke, but actually I’m not sure that he’s bringing out the best in me. I don’t get a lot of pleasure from what usually becomes beating up an idiot. There’s a saying in the Talmud that someone who goes into a leather factory comes out smelling. Every time characters like that manage to drag me down into their gutters I feel the need to shower.

    He openly admits that he has no interest in changing anyone’s mind – I guess to do so he’d need one of his own – so basically his purpose here is to change the subject and by countless meaningless idiocies lower the level of discussion to such depths that people like arcaneon will naively ask why we’re all bickering. Just consider some of his recent “comments:

    Speaking of the company Richard keeps…Hi jonny boy.

    I told you I am not very bright I fucked that up ha ha ha. I meant of course…

    If it is so are you telling me the Jews of Hampstead and Hoxton are not really people ? Help me out here Daniel.

    Daniel have you ever thought of making aliyah and moving to Israel ?

    The real demographic time bomb is the million or so sane Jewish Israelis. Add them to the Arabs in the occupied territories and Daniel is fucked

    Daniel you are old ( you were born old ) your hands are grey. We have heard your dirty stories. three thousand years, three thousand years….. of your God damned glory.

    Jose bickering wtih you and sanity are incompatible. I choose sanity

    Daniel is conchover right ? Do you live in Israel ?

    Daniel do you live in Israel ?

    Dunno why are you ?

    Daniel do you live in Israel ?

    To lay the matter to rest, I have lived in the land of Israel since 1980. I immigrated at the age of 18 straight after finishing high school in the UK.

    • Daniel

      you are right, he smells really really bad and Gert already back into I’m-pissing-myself mode or mood helps to make the stink even worse.

      But even it is a drag on you to answer him, your writing is far from having gotten infected by even the slightest miasmata (if that’s the right plural). It shines as ever, lucid, easy to understand and remember and with just the right amount of story-telling thrown in to make it IMHO literature and on top of it all in an English that reads melodious to me.

      There is beauty that is unsoilable and whoever throws dirt at it (since he doesn’t know you in person the only dirt he can try to throw is at your writing) finds it landed back in his own face or hopefully on his keyboard making it unusable forever, just as if it, the dirt, had been a squash ball.

  49. Richard:

    Find a recent quote where he’s supports Israel’s existence.

    Read the Indie piece. These are the words of a man who deeply cares about Israel. Unlike you who runs a blog that attracts flies to a piece of dung.

    • richardmillett

      What piece?

      • <a href=http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/avraham-burg-even-i–an-israeli–think-settlement-goods-are-not-kosher-7821011.html<Burg in the Indie: (excerpt)

        The large-scale and expansionist settlement enterprise erodes the Green Line every day. Residential communities, now housing more than 500,000 settlers, were established within occupied Palestinian territory in order to make us forget the Green Line’s existence and prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. It should long have been clear to every Israeli that anything located inside the Green Line is the democratic, legal, normative Israel, and anything beyond the line is something else: undemocratic, illegal, not normative. Not ours.
        But the Israeli people’s eyes are blind, their ears are deaf and their leaders are flaccid and weak. This is precisely the situation in which civilised societies urgently need feedback and intervention from the outside: to mirror the absurdity of the situation created and to focus attention on the damage of human and political blindness. To tell Israel that it is impossible to be treated as “the only democracy in the Middle East”, while it is also the last colonial occupier in the Western world.
        It is not anti-Semitic and not anti-Israel to convey these messages. On the contrary: the settlers, the conquerors and their political allies – including Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel – are the real enemies of Israel’s future.
        Indeed, anyone who wants to erase the pre-1967 border is essentially asking to erase the basic values on which the State of Israel was established: democracy, equality, the rule of law, secularism and modernity. Colonising Palestinian land across the Green Line goes in the opposite direction: it generates fanatic, nationalistic, fundamentalist and anti-democratic energies that threaten all civilised Israeli foundations.
        I have decided to not buy any product that comes from the settlements. I do not cross the Green Line, not to promote public causes and not for family events. Because everything happening across the Green Line is the dark alter ego of Israel. Its hidden personality is manifest there. Evil, aggressive and impenetrable. This personality threatens to take over the good and humane parts of the legitimate Israel. With international help, we must return these demons to their bottles, or rather to those positive domains for which this state was established.
        Preventing the mislabelling of settlement products as “made in Israel” and blocking their preferential entry into the EU seems a symbolic and minor step. However, in the present circumstances, it is a giant leap for Middle East peace, which seems more remote than ever.
        Contrary to what you may be told, this is not a sweeping boycott of Israel, but a subtle and moral distinction that marks the difference between Israel’s great potential and its destructive capabilities.
        If, God forbid, the Green Line will be permanently erased, from consciousness and from the ground, then Israel will also be erased. The struggle for the preservation of the Green Line is the struggle for Israel. Anyone who defends and reinforces it is a friend of Israel and keeps hope alive.

  50. Daniel mon ami do you live in Israel ?

    • He lives in what could be the future state of Palestine.

      • Daniel Marks

        Contrary to what you may think, Gert, Avrum Burg is not a very influential voice in Israeli politics or society in general. He was the Labor party’s religious MK though it was always doubtful how many votes he ever brought them.

        His father was an extremely clever and long-serving politician, but Avrum was always the black sheep of the family. He was quite bright and photogenic and after joining the Labor party was fostered by Shimon Peres at a time when he looked for young politicians to skip the generation of those who about 60-70 today and who he never trusted.

        Burg was speaker of the Knesset, his unforgettable moment being when he eulogized a politician who was (and is) still alive after believing a crank call.

        (2 minutes 25 into the clip)

        He was also briefly Chairman of the Labor Party, though I can’t remember him doing anything memorable from that period.

        Since quitting politics he’s written a few books that sell for about 20 Shekels and forever seem to be on sale. He’s also made some angry post-Zionist speeches predicting tragedies that (thank G-d) never seem to materialize.

        Holding views similar to his there may be half a dozen Jews in the present Knesset. I’m sure that Gert is right that he “deeply cares about Israel”. However, that does not mean that his opinions are correct or his prophesies of doom accurate.

      • Daniel

        the faces tell me nothing, please don’t leave me cliff-hanged with such a juicy sounding bit.

        Wasn’t Avraham Burg the guy who at one time told the public that from now on he’d prefer to make use of his French citizenship and establish an abode there?

        If that’s him, what happened? Did he fall our of love with the French or vice versa?

  51. Once, not even that long ago, this blog was, as far as Zionist blogs go, readable and logically argumented debate was possible here. Then the loons took over the asylum. Now when I need a few belly laughs at the end of the day, I come here. Mad Mel Phllips, eat your heart out!

    Anyway, mine’s a Carlsberg! And a line of Ziocaine, please…

  52. Sharon Klaff


    Everyone should read this before they sprout their rubbish

    • This is the usual klafftrap (sorry, couldn’t resist!) about the ‘non-existent Palestine’, of course.

      Of no consequence whatsoever. Silly-billys playing with legal terms…

      • bravo Gert

        now you stole my argument – can’t you ever come up with one tiny little thought really your own and not cut and paste or in this case plagiarised?

        I wouldn’t mind so much, if I could convince myself that you understood it, but since I am sure you are just parroting undigested scraps from my table I admit to feeling a bit miffed.

        Whenever you paraded up and down your non-existing legal knowledge down to the fact that you don’t even know how to read a text, I regularly exposed you for a fraud.

        Thus you of all people trying to do that same thing to somebody else without having ever understood the basics surely is the stinking joke of the day.

      • Sharon Klaff

        Not only do you use insult to make your point, but you have no clue about the history of the region. Go get educated and until then lock your keyboard – Gert filed with rich in “pay no attention”.

  53. As best I know Israel gets its final borders only as part of a peace treaty, all she currently has are cease-fire-lines.

    Now here is a similar case:

    After the second world-war the Polish border found itself (I don’t know by which procedure) at the Oder-Neisse-Line. Germany contested that line demanding another instead, which one again I don’t know or remember. Anyway this state of affairs with Poland claiming, Germany contesting continued till after the Soviet Union broke up. During all that change and bargaining back and forth, Germany recognized the Oder-Neisse-line as the proper Polish border. And as improbable as it sounds as far as international law goes Germany’s claim seems to have been not hopeless at all.

    So here is a question to nagging rich:

    Where have all those Poles east of the Oder-Neisse-Line and west of whatever border Germany desired, where have all those Poles been living all those decades?

    In Poland or in La-La-Land?

    And to be absolutely clear – if world history had chosen a by no means hard to imagine different path, then it might well have been that one day these Poles woke up and found themselves to be living in Germany or any other player that might have laid claim to the area.

    The inability of Anglos, both UK and USA, to be aware that borders are a thing that can shift any time, baffles me again and again – it strikes me as a lack of imagination, of in the word-sense bad insular thinking.

    Daniel lives in Israel – period!

    And as far as I am concerned I sincerely hope that history will take a course that makes the wind and the sun and the moon always smile on his house, his city, his county, his country and whatever or whoever else is precious to him.

  54. My own bet is that he lives in a from a river to the sea Israelstine. Won’t that be a whole heap of fun ?

    Don’t bicker with them Gert you just drag them back into their comfort zone

    Keep them uncomfortable is my motto . See how Daniel squirms and then says ” I live in the land of Israel ” How funny is that.

    Tough questions are not their strong point.

    • Daniel lives on permanently stolen land. He can call it what he likes.

      We’re now waiting for ‘a land grab too far’. Then it’s Anschluss and the march for equal political rights for WB Palestinians begins. A fight we can’t lose. Even BamBams will be with us then.

      Following in Millett’s particular kind of madness, I think Netanyahoo is a bit of a crypto-antizionist. He did once mention something under his breath about a ‘Pales%^$%% State’, you know?

      • Norman Cohen

        Gert stolen from whom? You just repeat the Goebbels lie propagated by the Arabs and gobbled up by the Europeans who had to find a way to assuage their guilt for the centuries they persecuted the Jews by again making the Jews the scapegoats – after all we lost our chance at being the underdogs when we got our State and then successfully defended it. But it will still not make it the truth. The Mandate for Palestine gave the whole of Palestine for close settlement by the Jews. Live with it!
        Answer me what was the “Palestine” that was supposed to be liberated under the PLO Charter of 1964 if at the time Judea and Samaria had not been liberated from the illegal Jordanian Occupation and what you call the West Bank had been ethnically cleansed of all Jews since 1948?

    • I admit that sometimes silly questions are not “their” strong point – sometimes I find “their” trust that reason is capable of reaching every person a bit romantic especially when they get too patient with people like you who suffer so badly from delusion and show a lack of grasp on reality even in their ad homs.

      Daniel and squirming

      – the only ones squirming around here are you and your buddy Gert and the only reason you squirm is so the stuff you excrete may smell even more foul.

  55. As best I know………..were I you Silke I would content myself with figuring out what day it is.

    • Ah, so that comparing of border drawing between Germany and Poland got to you.

      really nice, whenever somebody catches you out you become silly.

      BTW as best I know the Oder-Neisse-Linie was a bit more than a mere cease-fire-line.

      But since you claim to be such an expert on internationally recognized borders, I am sure that you can explain the difference to me.

      Who was that ancient writer who famously complained about the kind of philosophers who dominated the rhetoric schools of the time?

      Shouldn’t you know that? or did you just take 101.

  56. Daniel ,amigo, do you live in Israel ?

  57. Norman Cohen

    rich history among probably most other subjects is clearly not your strong suit is it? Now I told you that daniel does not live in the State of Israel which is what you would like him to say but of course he will not because unlike you he is not a liar. Neither do I live in the State of Israel because until final status negotiations are concluded Israel is following the Oslo Accords (unlike the Palestinians who went to UN seeking statehood – fat lot of good it did them) and will not take any action which would pre-judge those negotiations and annexe Judea and Samaria – although there is plenty of legal authority for the proposition that it may do so. So what is the Land of Israel a part of which where both Daniel and about 400,000 other Jews lawfully reside here’s a clue go on to Wikipeadia and look up “Land of Israel”. Here so as not to tax you any further I will even give you the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel
    gert you can call me all the names you like I find that is what usually happens when anti-Israel commenters on web blogs are unable to answer simple questions which basically show their whole argument to be based on a fallacy answer the question I posed you: What was the “Palestine” the 1964 PLO Charter vowed to liberate?

  58. Norman Cohen

    “It should long have been clear to every Israeli that anything located inside the Green Line is the democratic, legal, normative Israel, and anything beyond the line is something else: undemocratic, illegal, not normative. Not ours.”

    Nonsense there is no legal proposition for that.

    The Green Line as you call it was the Armistice Line of 1949 and was never meant to be a final border.

    Answer me this how is it any more legal for Jews to live in Ashdod/Jaffa than it is for them to live in Ma’ale Adumim? Neither Ashdod/Jaffa were included in the UN Partition Plan of 1947 as being part of the proposed Jewish State. If we follow your reasonaing the Arabs are entitled to take away not just Judea and Samaria but most of what was liberated in the War of Independence too. On the other hand for example the Etzion Bloc on what you call the West Bank was Jewish owned land included in the Partition Plan as being part of the future Jewish State so why should Israel have to give that up?
    Anyway what are the Arabs offering us in return – peace? Well excuse me but I live here and you don’t and going by what I see happening around this neighbourhood I am not convinced and neither are the majority of people who live in Israel be it the land of Israel or the State of Israel.

  59. Daniel sugar plum. Do you live in Israel ?

  60. Norman Cohen

    An obsession is defined as a thought, impulse, or image that either recurs or persists and causes severe anxiety. These thoughts are irresistible to the OCD sufferer despite the person’s realizing that these thoughts are irrational. Examples of obsessions include worries about germs/cleanliness or about safety or order or where a person lives. A compulsion is a ritual/behavior that the individual with OCD engages in repeatedly, either because of their obsessions or according to a rigid set of rules. The aforementioned obsessions may result in compulsions like excessive hand washing, skin picking, lock checking, or repeatedly asking the same question especially when it has been repeatedly answered.

  61. Daniel, honey. Do you live in Israel ?

  62. Norman Cohen


  63. Norman Cohen

    I trust Daniel that you will let him carry on posting the question for ever if need be at least it will save us from some of his other nonsense.

  64. Daniel Marks

    Actually as a lawyer and a fellow resident of Ma’ale Adumim, Norman is much better qualified than I am to discuss the status of our city. I know that there is no curiosity or genuine thirst for knowledge behind the question, but merely an attempt to start some kind of debate, one that I have no intention of embarking upon. Rich is a troll who has done nothing for the Palestinian People in all his unfortunate existence. Therefore, I will answer the question as simply and clearly as I can, in case any readers wish to hear my answer. If the troll wishes to engage me in debate, let him first list his acts of support for the Palestinian cause other than scrawling idiotic postings. Let him say what he has done to ameliorate the pain of the Syrian people tens of thousands of whom have been murdered by the leaders of their regime. Let him tell what he has ever done for those who cause he claims to champion.

    Maale Adumim is part of the Land of Israel and has been since the time of Joshua. Almost a century ago my grandfather Moshe reached Maale Adumim while serving king and country in the ranks of the Jewish Legion of the British Army. His commanding officer Lieutenant-Colonel John Henry Patterson (of Protestant father and Roman Catholic mother) in his diary wrote:

    “We bivouacked about three miles beyond Jerusalem, and next morning (13th August) marched through Bethany while it was yet dark, and reached our bivouac at Talaat ed Dumm at 2.30 in the afternoon. I reported our arrival to General Chauvel, of the Australian Mounted Division, whose headquarters were at this place, and from his hut I had a splendid view of the beauty and desolation of the Jordan Valley which lay spread out before me. Talaat ed Dumm is a weird uncanny spot. It is mentioned in the Book of Joshua as Adummim, and is the gate of the Judaean wilderness. The red and yellow barren hills and rocky narrow valleys have a peculiar desolation all their own, while the heat at the time we were there was scorching.”

    My grandfather was never a religious man, but many of his brothers –in-arms had enough time to conduct evening prayers, maybe on the spot where I prayed this morning. They prayed to their Maker once again to “return our eyes to Zion in mercy”. From Maale Adumim there is a fine view of the Mount of Olives where the Messiah will one day commence his reign and on a clear day in the other direction the Dead Sea can be seen where once Abraham and Lot fled Sodom and Gemorah.

    From the point of view of Jewish law and tradition Maale Adumim is on the border between the tribal areas of Benjamin and Judah and thus in the very heart of the Land of Israel. This matter has important implications regarding Jewish law.

    Until 1917 Maale Adumm was part of the Ottoman Empire, but always seen by every Jew as part of the Land of Israel. At this time nobody at all lived here and this is the only picture I’ve found of the period.

    The rest is common knowledge. Maale Adumim was included as part of the British Mandate and was intended to form part of a Jewish National Home. According to the Partition Plan of 1947 it would have been part of an Arab State. As a result of the War of Independence it was illegally annexed by Jordan who then proceeded to lose it in a war of aggression against Israel in 1967.

    Jews began to return to Maale Adumim in about 1975 and I joined about a decade later. Successive Israeli governments have refrained from annexing Judea and Samaria.

    In 1993 as a result of the Oslo Accords (which I opposed with all my might) it was agreed that Maale Adumim would become part of C. This means that it is under full control of the Israeli government and its citizens are citizens of the State of Israel in every way, for better or for worse. The area has not been annexed and from a practical point of view that means that property registry is done by a different government body. There are other legal subtleties, here again Norman is better qualified to explain them.

    The C area of Judea and Samaria constitutes about 60% of its land area and has a Jewish majority of about 24:1 (96%). There have been recent suggestions about annexing area C or parts of it. One plan would be to do so only after a referendum of Arabs living here was held, the assumption is that a vast majority would favor Israeli citizenship.

    While the idea has its merits, its opponents say that it would lead to international opposition, by those seeking any excuse to condemn Israel who have anyway never given two hoots about the genuine needs or wishes of the Palestinian People. Furthermore, while the situation of both Jews and Arabs on both sides is not ideal, it is probably better than it has been at any time in living memory, so this may well be a case of leaving well enough alone – the enemy of good being perfect.

    Just to reiterate Rich, you have begged me to explain this issue and now I have done so. To paraphrase Anne Elk, this is my opinion.

    I have no interest in knowing what you think of what I have written or what your views are on the matter. I guess that being ignored most of their lives must be the tax that people like you must pay for their ignorance and idiocy.

    • Is that a yes or a no ?

      • You’re a vicious idiot, Rich, rich in stupidity. I hope Daniel continues to ignore you.

        Daniel lives in Ma’ale Adumim, a citizen of Israel. Until an agreement is reached with the P.A. otherwise, M.A. is in Israel, clearly, so far as Daniel is concerned. I see no other way that Israel could effectively function.

        Israel is only obliged to withdraw from territory occupied in 67, according to 242, in the context of a regional settlement, its having been occupied a priori in defensive war. The closest attained to that was the Geneva Accord, which sees M.A. as being retained by Israel in exchange for territory from elsewhere.

        Though I doubt a ‘philosopher’ such as you (sounds more like a frothing paranoid schizophrenic low on his meds) has even heard of the Geneva Accord until now.

        As a PhD student with 2 degrees in classics (one a Masters at UCL), it’s always embarrassing to hear ignorant, bigoted idiots like you boasting in their academic philosophical qualifications.

    • That someone with a masters in classics from UCL should so hopelessly and excrutiatingly misuse the term ” a priori ” is only explainable if educational standards are falling even quicker than we had hitherto thought.

      Daniel do you live in Israel ?

      • How is my use of a priori incorrect?

        And, by now, a real philosopher would have concluded from Daniel’s answers that he does live in Israel. Only an idiot would conclude otherwise.

      • ‘” occupy apriori ” is a nonsense construction.’

        Not what I said, either, which was ‘its having been occupied a priori in defensive war’ i.e. ‘its having been occupied formerly in defensive war’.

        Makes perfect sense in English to me.

      • who the freaking hell are Lewis and short ?


        apriori…relating to or involving deductive reasoning ….known to be true independently of or in advance of or in advance of experience. Requiring no evidence for its valdation.

        A priori is a term INVENTED by epistemologists. How can we know ? How do we know all black cats are black ? Do we have to examine every black cat in existence to very this ? No. We know it a priori. Being black is part of the concept of black cats. If we know its a black cat we know its black.Kant called it analytic.This in contrast with a posteriori knowledge. This is ” knowledge ” acquired by experience. Inductive knowledge.

        BTW I am just giving you the company line here o) If you want to bust all I have said as bullshit see the world’s greatest living philosopher, in my view the greatest ever, who is both American ( God save him from that ) and Jewish. Saul Kripke.

        This doesn’t detract from the fact that it is an epistomological notion

      • ‘A priori is a term INVENTED by epistemologists. ‘

        That is absolute, unbelievable garbage. Here is an instance of the use of ‘a priori’ by Rufinus’ translation of Basil of Caesarea in the late fourth century:

        Basilius secundum translationem Rufini – Regula (e graeco uersa)
        Cl. 0198 D (A), cap.: 2, responsio, par.: 99, pag.: 23, linea: 12
        99 Non enim parvus labor est ut se aliquis a priori non bona consuetudine reflectat ac revocet, quoniam quidem mos longo tempore confirmatus vim quodammodo obtinet naturae.

      • If you don’t believe me, believe Heidegger:

        ‘Towards the end of the 1927 lecture course (=GA 24) Heidegger comes to expand on the theme more in detail. He says that the original sense of a priori in terms of “earlier” contains a clear reference to time; it is, therefore, a temporal determination.’


        Or try this google book on Heidegger, page 39:


        Heidegger translates ‘a priori’ as ‘earlier’, which is +exactly+ what it +literally+ means.

      • ‘Do we have to examine every black cat in existence to very this ? No. We know it a priori.’

        My dear philosopher, Richard, that is because ‘a priori’ means literally ‘from the thing earlier’ or just ‘earlier’, which is precisely what Heidegger says it means.

    • Because apriori and aposteori are epistomological terms pertaining to questions of knowledge. We speak of a priori knowledge, i.e. of things known without benefit of experience. And we ask is such knowledge possible and if so how ?

      ” occupy apriori ” is a nonsense construction.

      ” only an idiot would conclude otherwise.” I haven’t concluded anything, just asking.

      Daniel do you live in Israel.

      • ‘A priori’ just means ‘from earlier’ or ‘from an earlier time’. In this case, the territory occupied +from earlier+ than the putative settlement of 242.

        It can be used of actions, events or knowledge.

      • ‘” occupy apriori ” is a nonsense construction.’

        No, it’s being used, quite normatively, as an adverb.

      • Better, ‘a priori’ means ‘from the former’ or ‘formerly’. It is an adverbial phrase of time. If you don’t believe me, check Liddell and Scott:

        prĭor and prĭus (old form also in
        I. neutr. prior, Val. Antias and Quadrig. ap. Prisc. p. 767), ōris, adj. comp. [from obsol. prep. pri; v. primus init.], former, previous, prior, freq. to be translated first; cf. superior; Cicero nearly always uses prior, opp. to posterior, in time; superior in sense of former, in gen. relation to the present, when no other time is expressed; v. Krebs, Antibarb. p. 921 sq.


      • Sorry, not Liddell and Scott, I mean Lewis and Short.

      • ‘Because apriori and aposteori are epistomological terms pertaining to questions of knowledge.’

        ‘A priori’ is an adverbial term attested in late Antique Latin. Here is an instance of the use of ‘a priori’ by Jerome in his commentaries in the late fourth century:

        Hieronymus – Commentarii in prophetas minoresCl. 0589, SL 76A, In Naum, cap. (s.s.) : 1, linea : 409 [*]ideo plus posui de septuaginta interpretibus quoniam secunda perikopê~g a priori non poterat separari.

      • Lewis and Short is the standard English-Classical Latin dictionary, which I quoted.

        The reason why ‘a priori’ is applied to argument is because it means literally ‘from the former thing (i.e. assumed knowledge or argument)’.

        But it can also be used as an adverb of time, meaning ‘from the former thing (i.e. time)’ i.e. ‘earlier’.

        That is why I quoted you Lewis and Short on the elementary meaning of ‘prior’:

        prĭor and prĭus (old form also in
        I. neutr. prior, Val. Antias and Quadrig. ap. Prisc. p. 767), ōris, adj. comp. [from obsol. prep. pri; v. primus init.], former, previous, prior, freq. to be translated first; cf. superior; Cicero nearly always uses prior, opp. to posterior, in time; superior in sense of former, in gen. relation to the present, when no other time is expressed; v. Krebs, Antibarb. p. 921 sq.

  65. Some philosopher, is our Rich. He asks Daniel a question, but seems incapable of hearing the answer.

    Ma’ale Adumim, where Daniel lives, was to be kept to Israel in the Geneva Accord, which Ehud Olmert offered to Abbas in 2008:


    I think Netanyahu is doing immense damage to Israel by not formally signalling a similar offer to Obama, Abbas and the world. Netanyahu’s behaviour with Obama was disgraceful, shortsighted and foolish to the point of idiocy, imo.


    your description of Avram Burg is too simplistic.

    Avram Burg would doubtless not characterise himself as anti-Israel, and he does live in Nataf. But in 2004 he acquired French citizenship and in 2007 advocated ending the Jewish right of return and every Israeli Jew’s acquiring a foreign passport, which hardly suggests a confidence (or perhaps even wish) for Israel’s existing much longer:


    Having said that, if Israel follows the regional tendency for more religion, it is not inconceivable that more and more secular Israelis will look for homes elsewhere, which will probably contribute to an overall deleterious effect on Israel’s qualitative edge over its enemies.

    I have to say, I think eschewing the West Bank’s Palestinian Arab population essential for Israel’s long term survival, nor is it especially controversial to say so, and it is dangerous that, in the person of Lieberman, the settler movement seems to be leading the state by the nose. I think those who think the current situation can carry on indefinitely are deluding themselves.

    What Israel has to fear, I think, is more a death from a thousand cuts, and internal problems, than an Iranian nuclear bomb (which would cast a shadow, I grant you), though I would be happy to be (existentially rather than merely formally) wrong. That, after all, is, more or less, the goal of the BDS movement, for all its asseverations to the contrary.

    • Daniel Marks


      While I don’t think that “the current situation can carry on indefinitely”, I believe that we (Israel) need to know that we have a better option available before once again embarking on radical changes.

      I maintain that all attempts by the Right and the Left to “solve the problem” by making war or making peace, in the last 30 years, have led to a deterioration of the situation that would take a long time to set recover from.

      However, if you have any original ideas, that haven’t already tried and failed, I’m all ears.

      • Daniel

        I don’t know of a single “current situation” that can and/or does carry on indefinitely.

        That “once and for all and for sure and predictable” is a possibility and a surety if only they came to power is one of the most tempting visions, the Nazis peddled.

      • Well, I don’t the Geneva Accord has been tried.

        I think the, ‘But we withdrew from Gaza’ argument is fallacious: of course they were going to vote in Hamas. At the time I thought the blockade was a mistake, not because Hamas isn’t a threat, but because it would have been better to leave Gaza be and, when Hamas raised its head, hammered it, as per e.g. Cast Lead, but at least have international law and/or consensus (at least more) firmly onside.

        Having said that, I understand the logic of the blockade, which was to prevent Hamas becoming such a threat, so as +not+ to have to undertake an operation +worse/heavier+ than Cast Lead.

        But that is not evidence for not coming to a negotiated peace with the P.A. as per the Geneva Accord. I don’t think Abbas wants to, but Netanyahu should at least signal that he is so prepared.

        I think it is the only option. Otherwise Israel will have to make unilateral withdrawals or changes which she will have to defend by might alone, with little to no backing in international law or consensus. She will be under siege permanently and indefinitely, with no guarantee of even lasting U.S. support (and words are cheap). And no siege lasts forever. On which precisely BDSers and Ben White bank.

    • the regional tendency for more religion

      more people being more interested in religion is a REGIONAL phenomenon?

      Good to know, maybe somebody should tell the let’s say Falun Gong.

      And glad to learn that my memory is still functioning well and it was Avraham Burg who said all the good things about France and the bad things about Israel.

      At the time I was deeply impressed by his brand of patriotism.

  66. ‘more people being more interested in religion is a REGIONAL phenomenon?’

    In the middle east, no?

  67. Falun Gong is in the middle east?

  68. ‘That “once and for all and for sure and predictable” is a possibility and a surety if only they came to power is one of the most tempting visions, the Nazis peddled.’

    It seems a lot of pro-Israel commenters that I read say or assume that Israel can survive in a state of siege indefinitely. I don’t think that makes them Nazis, but I don’t think it’s true.

    The siege must either be broken or it succeeds, in the long term.

    • I don’t think that accords with what the voices in Daniel’ head keep telling him, and that is always going to be the major problem for anyone trying to discuss issues with him.

      • Since you are one of the effective/would-be besiegers, I’m not surprised.

      • Norman Cohen

        Daniel wrote you at length but as usual either because his arguments are so persuasive or or more probably seeing it’s you you lack the wherewithal to engage him in honest debate you just make a pathetic attempt at ad hominem. Most people on this website see through you maybe it’s time you found a real playground where you can play.

  69. ‘I don’t think that accords with what the voices in Daniel’ head keep telling him’

    I don’t think paranoid schizophrenics low on their meds should start talking about other people’s alleged voices in their heads…

  70. ”What Israel has to fear, I think, is more a death from a thousand cuts, and internal problems, […]”

    What Israel has to fear most is its addiction to the ‘status quo’ (which of course as we know isn’t a real status quo), the belief that they can muddle on like this for all of eternity, ‘another day, another settlement’ so to speak.

    With every day that passes the settlements become more permanent and the settlers more indigenous. Who can blame them (and their children) if in less than a decade or so they will totally refuse to leave? So, let them stay, allow WB Palestinians the same rights and work something out to honour the RoR in some way but not literally.

    But that’s not going to happen w/o serious outside pressure. The crazies in T/A believe they’re winning and doing G-d’s work and an ‘accidental one state solution’ will be the result. I will see it in my own lifetime, mark my words.

    • ‘So, let them stay, allow WB Palestinians the same rights and work something out to honour the RoR in some way but not literally.’

      That was the Geneva Accord, which Olmert offered Abbas in 2008, but received no reply: 2 states, for 2 peoples, with 2 rights of return, division of Jerusalem, old and new, borders on the 67 lines or with territorial swap.

      But in 2010, P.A. Prime Minster, Salam Fayyad, wouldn’t even sign up to the proposition ‘two states for two peoples’ (not even Israel as a Jewish state), lest (I assume) one of those peoples be interpreted as the Jewish:


      If that is the fundamental position of the P.A. the prospects for a negotiated, permanent peace are slim.

      Danny and Norman may just have to adapt to the prospect of a permanent stage of siege, which, while unenviable, may be the only option.

      I said that no siege lasts forever, but if one is in the situation, one may just have to carry on as though it will.

      ‘I will see it in my own lifetime, mark my words.’

      Then, my reptilian friend, you will waste your life, as you have lived it: empty, lonely and unfulfilled.

      • Then, my reptilian friend, you will waste your life, as you have lived it: empty, lonely and unfulfilled.

        Deeply unnecessary kvetch I’ve become used to from habitués at the Brown Sauce. Although it’s usually a lot worse than that.

  71. Norman Cohen

    I note you do not answer posts directed at you. But what do you suggest? Israel did not lose three wars with the Arabs in order to put its citizens into a worse position than existed before those wars – which is what you propose.
    Here I am arguing from a purely pragmatic position without getting legalistic.
    It seems to be a given that Israel must make concessions for peace including the creation of a State which is being founded for the sole purpose of “liberating” the land on which the State of Israel stands. What other people would agree to that and why therefore should Israel?
    In the face of incontrovertible evidence as to what will happen the minute a Palestinian State is declared (you only have to see what happened in Gaza – and what happened in Lebanon the when Israel moved out) you still want Israel to commit suicide. Doing the same thing again and again hoping for a different result is insanity.
    Do you live in fact live here? Do you have a personal stake in this or do you like rich pontificate from afar? I would be more convinced by your arguments if you and those nearest and dearest to you were living here so you could together with the rest of us share what would happen if we were so foolish, in the present circumstances, to allow the creation of yet another Arab State sworn to the destruction of Israel.
    Frankly, after seeing the world sitting on its hands while thousands of Syrians are being slaughtered by their own army I have little confidence in any guarantees Israel would be offered to take a chance on peace which would involve placing its centres of population even closer to the weaponry now controlled by the Palestinians and their allies in Lebanon.

  72. Norman Cohen

    By the way gert I know you won’t answer my earlier qustion but the the origial PLO Charter had this gem:
    The People of Palestine believe in peaceful coexistence on the basis of legal existence, for there can be no coexistence with aggression, nor can there be peace with occupation and colonialism.

    What occupation were they talking about in 1964? If you read the rest of the Charter you will see their position has not changed one iota despite all their apologists claiming otherwise.

    • Norman:

      In the same way I don’t talk to Holocaust deniers or the Flat Earth Society I don’t talk to people (like you) who negate the existence of an entire people. Zionism is deeply racist and you’re living proof of that.

  73. Daniel Marks

    Good grief Gertie, you’re sounding very mystical and you’ve become a prophet! Is that the new job that you said you had found?

    I like the new Gert. I liked the old one, but this one is wise and omniscient prophesying and telling your readers to mark your words. You’ve even writing G-d with a dash in the middle, like a religious Jew – to avoid taking the Lord’s name in vain.

    I like Gert and I’m proud to call him my friend. Anyone have a problem with that?

    • ”[…] telling your readers to mark your words. “

      It doesn’t require genius to understand that what I ‘prophesy’ will come to pass, unless massive outside pressure comes to bear on Israel to start abiding by International Law. That’s what BDS wants to be a part of (but you’re against that too).

      Please stop calling me your friend, Daniel, I have street cred to think of! 😉

      • richardmillett

        BDS calls for the destruction of Israel via the return of the Palestinian (non) refugees!!!

      • Daniel Marks

        Oh yes. It will surely come to pass at the end of days!

        That’s the funny thing. In Israel we have a similar predicament where the Left who were always meant to be the rational ones with both feet on the ground have suddenly given up with logic or reasoning, but instead resort to statements such as, “Yes, but I still believe in peace.” We, on the other hand who were supposed to be all messianic and flaky have suddenly found cold logic on our side.

        You’re the prophet, but there are predictions about the natural order of things reversing itself before the final redemption. Maybe that’s what’s happening.

        Oh by the way, I note that Rich lived in your home town too. Is there some kind of Bridlington barmy blogger breeding barracks (BBBB) or is it just a coincidence?

        Regarding your street cred, I wouldn’t worry too much!

  74. Richard:

    ”BDS calls for the destruction of Israel via the return of the Palestinian (non) refugees!!!”

    Israel refuses to even consider honouring RoR in a different way.

    If there was something constructive on the table many of these OSS BDSers would start putting water in their wine.

    And what’s with the ‘(non) refugees’, eh? Israel allows Jews to obtain Israeli citizenship, without the applicant ever having set foot in Tel Aviv airport before. But the descendants of refugees of ’48 and ’67 are ‘(non) refugees’? I know it’s one of your wet dreams that these ‘fakestinians’ would just disappear into thin air or ‘Arabia’ but that’s not going to happen.

    • richardmillett

      Gert, BDS calls for ROR! There’s no argument about that!

      But most aren’t refugees! They weren’t born there so how can they be refugees? That makes me a Polish refugee!!!

      • RoR has to be honoured in some way or other.

      • richardmillett

        I agree but there’s only one way BDS wants it honoured! Look at the Finklestein clip above that someone posted. Just admit it, Gert, you too want Israel destroyed just like the BDS crew. You are a BDSer. It’s fine. We understand your ultimate desire. But, please, just admit it.

    • ROR,
      Right of Rejection.

  75. Norman Cohen

    Sorry where have I negated the existence of a whole people – stop projecting your own inadequacies. See e.g. my post at 8.05 pm on 9 June quote “with a land swap to compensate the Palestinians for the territory”.
    Obviously this is your mechanism for trying to deal with inconvenient facts.

  76. Norman Cohen

    Zionism is not racist but saying it is is anti-Semitic because you are negating the right of the Jewish people to self determination – the Jewish people having been around a lot longer than the Palestinians whose right to self determination you champion.

  77. Norman Cohen

    And what’s with the non-refugees – showing your ignorance here aren’t we? Someone called Kolya on Harry’s Place posted this:
    Jews don’t have a right of return based on an ancient heritage.
    Some Jews have always lived in Palestine. Others migrated there . You know what migration is don’t you ? – Lots of people have done it throughout history, without being called racist. Jews were motivated by their historical connections with the land in question, but they did not exercise any legal right of return – there is no such right.
    Eventually, inter-communal violence initiated overwhelmingly by Arabs against Jews led to the international community proposing a partition of Mandate Palestine into two states. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs didn’t. In the resulting fighting many Arabs fled, and some were forced out of, what became the de facto borders of Israel.
    Because of the circumstances under which the Arabs left (namely an attempted destruction of the Jewish community) Israel chose not to allow the refugees back. The Arabs who did not leave, became full citizens of Israel.
    The state of Israel then passed a Law of Return to admit Jews into Israel. This is nothing to do with a fictitious “right of return” as claimed by Palestinians. The Law of Return is, again, motivated by the Jewish historical connection to the land, but it’s not legally based on that connection. It’s a national law governing immigration policy which any state is entitled to set up as it sees fit. Pretty much every country in the world has immigration laws that give preferential treatment to what the country considers to be its own people. If the Palestinians get a state of their own, I’m sure they’ll do the same thing. Only when Israel does this is it called racist.
    So to sum up: a Right of Return has not existed for anybody, anywhere, at anytime; and it is not the basis of Jewish immigration into Israel. Trying to exploit this piece of legal fiction will get the Palestinians nowhere. What’s more, until they are ready to drop the idea, they will never get a state of their own. Get it?

  78. Gert ” Norman ” who’s real name is Anthony, frantically hops the internet seeking someone willing to bicker with him.Do us all a favour and quit obliging him.

    • Consider it done. I have those debates a 1000 times. Not willing to start one more time. He can make of it what he wants.

      • Also when people start using the ‘we were there first!’ argument, I start yawning. Some Jews seem to think they have special rights because they’re an Old People. Although it’s, within Jewry, mostly old people that think that.

        Daniel and Norman, they’re born old, if you ask me.

      • Gerd,

        Happy Nakba!

  79. Norman Cohen

    rich you are lying again but why am I surprised on the JC Web site tell everyone my name is Jose don’t you? You obviously have little or no knowledge and are hopelessly out of your depth which explains your ad hominem attacks. Your dubious forte is spreading malicious lies about Jonathan Hoffman and the EDL – just about your level – just go back to your sewer.

  80. Lies about J and you know who ? What on earth are you talking about ?

  81. Norman Cohen

    gert having no answer runs away from an argument. I don’t make anything of it you do it all by yourself what are you are is plain for anyone to see.
    “Although it’s, within Jewry, mostly old people that think that” – what do you know there are thousands of Jewish Youth who have obviously unlike you studied the history of their people that believe that. Deal with the argument otherwise you betray your obvious lack of knowledge. You accuse me of negating the existence of a people with no evidence. That is what we have come to expect from people who claim Zionism is racism they have no evidence just a book full of spin and they trot out the lines without having a clue of what they are talking about. Do you deny that the Jewish people was around a long time ago or do you subscribe to the Arab lie that the Jews have no historical connection to the land of Israel? Come on be honest let us know where you stand. The Jews have special rights in the Holyland and those special rights were recognised by the League of Nations and still have the force of International Law being enshrined in the founding charter of the United Nations but of course you are not going to let something like the Law spoil your spurious claims now are you? Obviously you also believe that the Aborigines have no rights in Australia or the Maoris in New Zealand simply because they are ancient peoples.

  82. Norman Cohen

    Why did you call me Anthony?

    • Daniel Marks

      I guess he thinks that on immigrating to Israel you decided to change your name to Norman – fair enough. I believe that the origin of this Norman name is Northern Man. I think it’s fair to say that yours is the only synagogue in town where a person can get away with a name like that.

      Two seats to my left sits Stuart (Davis) who goes by the name Israel.

      Hey!…Not only is Maale Adumim in Israel, but Israel lives in Maale Adumim.

    • But you’re Anthony form The Nags Head, aren’t you? Always boring the locals with stuff about Israel and Ma’ale Adumim. Even the elderly flee to the smoking shelter when ‘Zioanthony’ enters the establishment!

      • Come to think of it, some do call him ‘Jose’. Funny that…

      • I of course blame society for saddling us with the “Gerts” of this world

      • Do you mean by that that Gert is not to be held responsible even when he indulges in telling us about his latest bladder movements and/or leakages?

        In case you didn’t know Gert is Belgian of the Flemish variety and prefers for whatever reason to live on foreign soil.

  83. INormie/ Jose/ MIT/ Anthony/ blackie …

    Lies about off an the heeeee. Deeee. Hell
    What on earth are you talking it ?

    • You know Conchovar, you wouldn’t know a friend if one landed in your pea soup. While Abbas is an evil bastard, that the Palestinian on the street hates as much, if not more, than ,the IOF, Fayyad is a good guy. He makes you Judeo fascists look like the anti life you are. I know this because I have met him. So we have the arsehole Abbas. We have the Judeo fascists Daniel and Conchovar. Doesn’t look good does it ? Fear not the million or so sane Jewish Israel’s will save the day. I firmly believe this.

  84. Gert is that the nags head in Nafferton ?

    How funny is this.

    Israel lives in Maale Adumim

    No that is where Israel dies.

    You know Daniel I think it must have been you and conchavar that the Israeli actress Rivka Mitchell had in mind………..

    ” This is no longer my country…….all kinds of scum arriving from America and Europe and claiming land in the territories as their own. I can’t bear to even look at it anymore.I can’t do anything about it , I can only leave and watch as it goes to hell without me.”

    You think you are Israel. You are the antithesis of Israel , along with your mate conchavar.

    You know what I hate most about you Daniel ? I don’t care about your fascism, your blub blub I am a Jew please indulge me. I can live with all of that. What I hate is that you have procreated and are bringing up children to be like that.

    • ‘What I hate is that you have procreated and are bringing up children to be like that.’

      Yeah, what are the chances that Rich has procreated/will ever procreate?

      Slim to none, I’d say.

    • Gert is that the nags head in Nafferton ?

      The very one, son. The story goes he’s from Bogota, had a massive fallout with a Palestinian neighbour and moved to Nafferton.

      Then one day a local at t’Nags Head was whistling ‘Money, money, money’ under his breath, as Jose was getting the drinks in and he couldn’t take it anymore. So he moved to Banal Adumim, where he shacked up with a Bedouin woman. But that last part of the story is a bit farfetched, if you ask me…

  85. Daniel Marks

    That’s right Rich, don’t be ashamed. Let it all out. Mum told you that big boys don’t cry, but who cares?

  86. Wasn’t the division of Jerusalem part of the Geneva Accord? If yes, I’d recommend people to view these videos – Jerusalem seems to be very different from Berlin the geography of which me thinks was much more amenable to division and still it caused endless misery.


    When Netanyahu stopped construction within settlements for nine months that doesn’t qualify as sending a signal? And when Abbas hemmed and hawed and got to the negotiating table only when the nine months were almost up, that doesn’t qualify as sending a signal?

    And no matter what via the Geneva accord the “west” agreed to its eternal shame to another strip of land getting made Jew-free, thereby signaling to the world that it is OK for Arabs to find a Jewish neighbour beyond the pale.

  87. ‘When Netanyahu stopped construction within settlements for nine months that doesn’t qualify as sending a signal?’

    Yes. But that isn’t a reason to stop.

  88. Daniel Marks

    Yes, what really upsets him is that I am “procreating”.

    If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times; Scratch that wafer thin veneer of humanity and there’s a vicious anti-Semitic monster struggling to abscond its cage.

    Thankfully, this one is a weeping namby-pamby and quite innocuous. Four kids, and a grandson on the way, Rich.

    Cry me a river!

    • ‘Yes, what really upsets him is that I am “procreating”.’

      Hilarious. And curiously ironic: the church fathers also tended to look down on the Jews for regarding marriage and children as an obligation. They thought that virginity and spirituality without indulging fleshly desire a much higher state of being. A lot like our rich, it seems.

  89. Heidegger’s Being and time: a reading for readers – Page 46

    Eugene Francis Kaelin

    What is meant by calling being-in-the-world “a priori”? One of the mysteries of modern philosophy, since Kant’s Critiques, is how the adverbial Latin expression a priori has become a common qualifying adjective. At least one author has argued that Kant always used the expression in its borrowed form, that is, adverbially, so that what it properly modifies is a verb rather than a noun.


    It is in origin +an adverbial expression of time+.

  90. ha Israel’s natural allies are the crazed Koran burning American fundamentalists and the muslim hating European far right and I’m a monster ? That is before we get to a from the river to the sea Israel in which a small percent of the population may graciously be allowed to individually apply for citizenship in the land in which they were born( We aren’t told the fate of the rest ). And I’m a monster? And that is before we get to Jordan is mine too but I am willing to forego seizing it militarily though I could if I chose to. And I’m a monster ?

    • Well, you know they started settling the Sinai too, don’t you? IIRW, there was even a bit of a kerfuffle after the peace agreement because Israel was a tad reluctant to let go off some of them.

      This is essentially the difference between Holy Land I and Holy Land II. In Holy Land II, European settlers managed easily to dispose of the locals, no sweat. But in Holy Land I, the Pesky Fakestinians just aren’t that easily subdued. As a result, you have fake-progressive Benny Morris lamenting that Israel should really have gotten rid of all its ‘Barbarians’.

      And for the crazies arriving from Brooklyn, gun totin’, Thorah thumpin’ Yehudis, to them the WB must feel a bit like the New Frontier but with ‘Aa-rabs’ instead of Injuns…

  91. At least one author ?

  92. Cry you a river ? Nah. I wouldn’t want the noise to drown out the voices in your head .

  93. No dispensation for being Jewish when it comes to fascism Daniel, but my little sojourn here has being a valuable insight into the mind of an illegal settler. I would like to think you were atypical but I fear not .

  94. rich thankfully we have seen the last of you. Don’t bother giving my regards to the other dwellers in your sewer, I am sure there’s plenty of room for Gert. (Keyn yirbo 4 children of whom 2 and 4 grandchildren live in Judea and Samaria and we are all living the dream while you are rotting away in your hatred.).

    • Daniel Marks


      “rich thankfully we have seen the last of you”

      Don’t be too sure about that my friend. Like the cockroaches of last season that you were sure had gone once and for all, he’ll be back.

      Gertie has sworn a thousand times never to return, but after a couple of weeks staring at his blog which hasn’t had a comment in about six months, when there’s no gainful employment in the celebrated bingo halls of Bridlington or elsewhere, when his life seems more worthless than ever, he once again swallows his pride and returns.

      In Rich he has found a soul-mate, another ignoramus who compensates for his lack of personal attainment by ticking of his betters on blogs that discuss matters of which he has no knowledge. Rich is thoroughly addicted and sadly, when he recovers from his last humiliations he will swear revenge and will come back again.

      As a great modern-day Bridlingtonian prophet might say,

      “Mark my words!”

  95. By the way you use the term Judeofascist but tell us please what it means.

  96. If you have any difficulty I suggest you visit this website
    It and who ever owns it belongs in the same sewer with you. Nice company you keep – but oh no mustn’t forget you’re not a monster are you?

  97. The animals who bombed London transport on 7/7/05 weren’t Jews.

    They were fifth columnists from “the religion of peace”.

  98. Daniel, matey do you live in Israel ?

  99. Daniel I am here out of curiosity. You are here for the same reason your beloved far right groups have favourite pubs. You feel safe, important and affirmed here. I can, and will, take it or leave it, according to whether I think I am learning something. It is you that is unable to leave it.

    Daniel do you live in Israel.

  100. rich do you live in a sewer?

    • he once told us, that he’d be off to the pub, only to continue to comment after the announcement. From that one I concluded that even at the pub he isn’t wanted which suggests that the sewer is the one location where nobody minds.

  101. rich please tell us what Judeofacist means.

  102. Daniel

    Your prophecy was sadly correct – the sewer dweller has returned. His psychosis plain for everyone to see.

  103. On a much brighter note , the Times announces that’ victims of anonymous abuse on the Internet will be able to demand the identities of their tormentors – known as trolls – under changes to the law to be revealed today .
    The new onus on websites is part of an overhaul of defamation laws to protect free speech on the Internet . People who have been defamed can receive swift recourse to protect their reputation ‘
    This cannot come quickly enough . The cowardly bottom feeders who hide behind their anonymity in order to post defamatory comments will be forced into the open .
    It also means that those who see fit to fuel their obsessive irrational hatred by simply launching a blog , will be subject to the full rigours of the law . They will be exposed for what they are and libel to be sued for deformation .
    This cannot come soon enough and hopefully the new laws will act retrospectively .
    For cowards such as Gert , rich , Rrz etc , make the most of it . Like the insects that hide under stones to avoid exposure , you are about to get a rude awakening .

    • Harvey
      what about if they demand to know who called them fit for the sewer?

      Such laws have a terrible tendency to work both ways.

      Of course governments have an interest to limit uninhibited language beyond their control

      • PS:
        and what about transnational abuse? Will they get at me via international orders, will I be extradited to the UK? Will they forbid extra-nationals to comment on Richard’s blog reasoning that they can’t get at us?

        I sincerely hope they think a bit before they pass such a law.

  104. I should also add that they will be libel to be sued for defamation . Deformation being the warped and deformed nature of their character .

  105. I think you mean ” liable ” to be sued for defamation. Better get on with it Harv. I can’t wait.

    And I for one am not ” deformed “.

  106. And I for one am not ” deformed “.

    That’s a matter of opinion – obviously.

  107. there is a German word HÄME and its adjective hämisch. Neither Google nor I know a translation for it, so maybe it is something typically German. Wiktionary says a synonym is Schadenfreude but I don’t agree. There is still something merry in Schadenfreude, there is none in Häme.

    When Gert gets going like in his last, I am always reminded that he is of Flemish stock. Both our languages are very close. Thus maybe Häme exists in Flemish also, both the word and the emotion.

    For some weeks now I have looked for Häme, i.e. our special kind of derision in Anglo-texts. I haven’t noticed any.

  108. Harvey is someone tormenting you ?

  109. OT
    Over at comrade Greensteins blog , it appears that Neturei Karta are no longer the poster boys they once were for the psc .
    It will be interesting to see whether they will be allowed to participate in the next psc hoe down , especially now that Aharon Cohen has aligned the Nk with the New Right , a derivative of the National Front .
    I trust in Greensteins judgement hat their presence will continue to be a welcome addition to the psc cause . After all like goes to like or to put it another way ‘ if you lie down with fleas you wake up with fleas . ‘

  110. Well Harvey you know all about lying down with fleas. Tattooed ones at that.

  111. Anyway, mine’s Bacardi and rum, with a little umbrella, please. That Carlsberg tasted a tad off, yesterday.

    An Israeli Jew and an Israeli Palestinian share a prison cell.
    Pali: ‘What you in for?’
    Jew: “Jumped a traffic light and ran over a Palestinian, It was an accident, honest. Got 6 months. You?”
    Pali: “Driving without lights on. 6 years.”
    Jew: “ Wow, that’s a bit steep!”
    Pali: “On the contrary, Judge told me had I been driving in the dark, it would have been a life sentence!”

    • Norman Cohen

      Obviously Gert you’re ignorant about Israeli traffic laws. From 1st November to 31st March all vehicles must drive with their lights on even during daylight hours. The joke therefore falls flat. Secondly much as you would like them to be Arabs living in Israel are not Palestinian otherwise I would be an Israeli Englishman. The term Israeli Jew or Israeli Arab refers to their ethnicity.

      • Norman Cohen

        Oh and by the way under UK law for a summary conviction for deayth by reckless driving the tarrif is imprisonment not exceeding 6 months, or a fine, or both. It’s the same in Israel your material is pathetic.

      • Norman

        one question – the pro-Israel Blogosphere rejoiced recently because a Muslim wrote stuff we all want to hear, because at least I don’t want to be at loggerheads with the Muslims I worked with and nowadays meet here or there – He was presented as a Palestinian who had studied at Tel Aviv university.

        Would a Palestinian study at Tel Aviv University? or wouldn’t that rather be an Israeli Arab and if so why does he introduce himself to the German public as Palestinian?

        Ahmad Mansour ist Palästinenser und studierte in Tel Aviv Psychologie, Soziologie und Anthropologie. Seit 8 Jahren lebt er in Berlin und beendete sein Studium 2009 an der HU als Diplom-Psychologe.

        Ahmad Mansour is Palestinian and studied in Tel Aviv Psychology, sociology and anthropology. Since 8 years he lives in Berlin and finished his studies 2009 at the HU (Humboldt University?) as diplomised psychologist.


  112. Harvey are you looking to include me in your will ? Make it cash I have nowhere to park taxis.

  113. From Circus Israel:

    MESHAL: I like petition drives. I always said they’re very effective with the Israelis. But what do we demand?

    FAYYAD: Demand?

    MESHAL: Okay, not demand. Request.

    SHALLAH: Something like, we, the undersigned, respectfully request…what?

    SA’ADAT: Negotiations?… Discussions about negotiations?

    FAYYAD: Preliminary discussions about preliminary negotiations?

    SHALLAH: Jordanian citizenship and limited residency rights in restricted West Bank areas?

    SA’ADAT: No, no – that’s to be negotiated.

    SHALLAH: This’s really hard. Ya know, I just don’t think it’s so wrong to ask the Israelis for a little guidance. They know what they’ll tolerate.

    MESHAL: Do they? 2 Jews, 3 opinions.

    SA’ADAT: Why can’t we be delightfully quirky like that?

    MESHAL: Lemme tell you something Abu Tir said the other day. “Hamas wins parliamentary elections and they arrest 64 of us. So protest voting’s obviously not allowed. After 4 years in prison, they revoke my Jerusalem residency. So even thinking about resistance is not allowed in territory they control. Maybe they just want us out of here.”

    FAYYAD: Khaled, c’mon, man…

    MESHAL: This never occurs to you? That everything we’re talking about, the expulsions, the land grabs, the contempt, it’s all on purpose to make us surrender?

    SHALLAH: Wow. My brother, that’s really paranoid.

    SA’ADAT: Worse, it’s anti-semitic incitement. Khaled, I’m very disappointed.

    SHALLAH: Those Syrians slipped something in your falafel.

    FAYYAD: Look, if we present the right request in the right way at the right time, Israel will always consider it. Just like Oslo.

  114. Gert
    That’s almost funny but does Frankie Boyle know you’ve half inched his material ?

  115. Yachad is pro an Israel and a Palestine that never existed except in their imagination.

  116. That will teach them to mess with the Bridlington mafia. Harvey is someone tormenting you ?

  117. Anthony:

    The joke therefore falls flat. Secondly much as you would like them to be Arabs living in Israel are not Palestinian otherwise I would be an Israeli Englishman.

    Alice Tinker doesn’t get it either.

    Israeli Englishman? I like it. I like it a lot! Anthony from Israel from England!

    • Are you going to be another crass idiot like rich. My name is there for you to see if you want to call me Anthony then i trust you will have no objection to me calling you Roland the Rat will you?

  118. Daniel Marks

    Hi Gert,

    This page has become so drowned in crap, some of which I’m ashamed to admit is my writing, that it took me three days to notice your interesting comment of June 10, 2012 at 1:59 pm.

    On that note, I keep trying to remind myself that this is not a battleground and if you or Rich manage to get the last word in, Israel is not weakened one iota and, similarly, if one of us thinks up a particularly juicy insult or corrects another mistake, she is in no way further strengthened. Perhaps, we are like children playing cowboys and Indians, imagining that the result of our game will somehow affect the destiny of the US.

    The lower the level of discussion sinks, the more it become divorced from the original topic of this page, which seems long forgotten anyway, and even from the Arab-Israeli conflict in general. We’ve reached the stage where neither knowledge nor wisdom are required in order to post, just an extensive repertoire of insults and one liners – I blame myself as much as anyone else.

    In my defense, my first comment on this page was an attempt to relate to the topic at hand, but after much badgering to answer a wholly irrelevant question I foolishly took the bait and the rest is history.

    I was at a teachers’ conference last night and was asked to talk about an interest of mine. I had intended to explain about this blog and had even made a list of characters I would describe, but then it occurred to me that I’d have to talk about the subject matter and I suddenly felt ashamed to admit that as 51-year-old man I spend part of my day assailing non-entities who are totally unconnected to the Arab-Israeli conflict, just because they turn up and masochistically wish me to beat them up again. At the last moment I chickened out and spoke about chess and its life lessons.

    It just occurred to me that since we are both rapidly evolving from our late middle years to old-age, similar thoughts may be going through your mind. Oh, on a related note, I was amused at being told by your side-kick that I was “born old”. I’m guessing from the context that this was meant to be hurtful or derogatory, but I can’t think for the life of me why. Any ideas?

    • Sharon Klaff

      Daniel. Why do you suppose many of us no longer say much here? Richard writes and excellent blog, but it is infested by a couple of rodents and nobody will call the fumigators in. These rodents have a tactic to stop all intelligent and informing discussion and those who respond to them help them along.

    • Daniel:

      ”The lower the level of discussion sinks, the more it become divorced from the original topic of this page, […]”

      Let me remind you of something here, bud. As I indicated higher up, once not too long ago reasoned argued debate was perfectly possible here. Richard and me spent hours debating like students in a model class room. We even ‘went private’ for a bit. Then what happened? You and your merry bunch of nutzies from Banal Adumim landed here and spent hundreds of comments, ten and tens of A4 pages filled with bile and ridicule aimed at me. ‘Ad hom’ didn’t even begin to describe it. Remember that, son? Cos the evidence is 5 mins away, you know?

      Now you’re complaining about ‘the level of discussion’! Can you hear yourself think?

      And you also ‘went private’, with annoying, ad hom emails, which eventually led me to put your email address in my spam filter.

      Well, it’s not too late: ‘rip it up and start again’ if you like. Let reasoned debate start again at this blog. Richard could moderate if he wanted and have a blog instead of a bog.

      ” I’m guessing from the context that this was meant to be hurtful or derogatory, but I can’t think for the life of me why. Any ideas?”

      I think you were born Conservative, I call that “being born old”.


      • Daniel Marks

        I guess that is the 51-year-old equivalent of “But he started, miss!” It was my stupid mistake to attempt to address you rationally and as a human being. Back to the trash talk you understand.

        My point was that I’m really finding beating you guys up quite tedious already, and I think that many other Zionist bloggers may share my sentiments, but if that’s what you want, if that’s what you need – fair enough.

        There’s a story of a masochist who asks a sadist to hit him on the head and the sadist answers, “No”. So, beware my jobless buddy. Carry on this way and there may well come a day when nobody will wish to humor you or your mate anymore.

        Regarding being born Conservative (with a capital C) I truly have no idea to what you refer. I did once (at the age of 16 or 17) in the company of the evergreen Nick Kopaloff enter the offices of the Young Conservatives in Mill Hill. We were given to understand that we’d be very welcome and there was some talk about young ladies and the consumption of whiskey. We decided not to attend the event and have had no contact with the Conservative Party since.

        As I immigrated before realizing my right to vote I have never voted in a UK election for the Conservatives or any other party. I recall that my father voted Tory and my mother Labor, well, at least until she bought some shares.

        I’m certainly much older than I am Tory.

      • Oh and about that “joke” (which was originally an old pre-War Jewish joke about a German who knocked over a Jew and a Jew who drove without lights) – you forgot to mention that the Judge was an Arab you see in Israel there are Arab judges as well.

      • Daniel just being serious for a moment. Do you really think you have beaten anyone up ?

      • Daniel Marks

        No Rich, I haven’t literally beaten anybody up. Do I really have to explain the place of metaphors in speech to you as well? I honestly have no idea if you really are an imbecile or whether such idiotic questions are part of a brilliant ploy to lull me into a false sense of security and over-confidence, but I suspect that the former might be the case.

        No Rich, you can’t really beat people up if you haven’t met them or if you’re living in different continents – good grief!

        Tell me, is there anyone better than you I can talk to there? This is too bloody easy.

  119. Danny boy do you live in Israel ?

  120. Sharon do you reckon Daniel lives in Israel ? He refuses to tell me but maybe he has confided in you ?

  121. Just in case you were wondering Daniel that wasn’t written by an old tart called Tara.

    It’s Bridlingtonian for goodbye, see ya, so long,

    Ta ra geddit ?

  122. He prattles on ceaselessly about Bridlington. Apparently living there proves something. Unlike Banal Adumim.

  123. It must be the wonderful expanse of the south beach he is jealous of ( don’t mention the weaver fish )

    • Or maybe he lives in Croydon? Totally landlocked.

    • Wait. I think I’ve got it.

      He’s bonkers, right? He lives in Croydon, sees Bridlington with its river (weeelll, beck) and the sea and he thinks it’s Israel! And I live on the West Bank and he’s stuck in Croydon… It might even explain some of the racism we’ve got here, mainly from the over 50s…

      He’s just jealous, man.

  124. for once I must take sides with Gert against Daniel – certainly in his comments directed at me he has never strayed from the path that behoves an English gentleman to follow.

    He is the one person on this blog who can’t be rightfully accused of typing anything that can be even remotely described as ad hom. As behoves a true gentleman he would never contend himself with such small fry.

    In one point I must disagree with him though, the evidence is less than 5 minutes away.

  125. Silke you are such a fickle lil online hussey

    Daniel do you live in Croydon ?

    • what is the meaning of hussey?

      • hus·sy (hz, hs)
        n. pl. hus·sies
        1. A woman considered brazen or immoral.
        2. A saucy or impudent girl.

      • ahh – I like that. You should tell Google. I’m sure they’d be grateful

      • Jawohl, mein Schatz…

      • Saucier than a direct hit on a Heinz factory…

      • Daniel Marks

        It might be Rich’s “creative” spelling that has confused you Silke. I think he means “hussy”.

      • thanks Daniel

        and promptly I am smack in the middle of the mysteries of the English language, because here I find now this

        C16 (in the sense: housewife): from hussif housewife

        and upon checking C16 I learn that it is something that smells of Cherry

        and I wonder how language use switched from housewife to hussy

        It must be something like German journalists currently being much in favour of deriding Merkel as Mutti = mummy – which makes me wonder no end because they are the same people who chide German women for not getting enough children. Do they real think turning Mutti into a swear word is going to increase women’s willingness?


    • richardmillett

      I know Silke doesn’t need speaking up for but how anyone can insult a woman like this is beyond me. Gert’s right, I should moderate but I hate to do that. My main regret not moderating is losing Reuben due to Rich’s insensitive comment about the Holocaust of which Reuben was tragically involved in.

  126. I think silke got it Richard. It was a lil joke about about her transfering her affections from Daniel to Gert.. Hussey is about equivalent to ” wench ” . We often called our daughter a ” shameless hussey ” whenever she tried to play one of us off against the other. Maybe you should have a wander around your own blog and remind yourself of the countless insults silke has hurled at me that I have ignored.

    Insensitive comments about the holocaust ? As I recall, YOU said that no one does anything they don’t want to do. I said huh ? Have you not heard of the holocaust ? Reuben saw the word holocaust and that it was me that typed it. I doubt he read what I actually said.

    What was this i

  127. Daniel did you REALLY think I meant literally beaten up rather than metaphorically beaten up ?

    You type these meandering ” put downs ” and then sit down in your armchair and smile smugly at the impact you IMAGINE they have had. It is all in your head Daniel. Your head is a very crowded place, what with these imaginings and the voices and all.

  128. ps Richard I undertake to never type the word again, and if anyone else does I will pretend not to have seen it. Clearly it is a very dangerous word to use if you are anything other than an enthusiastic apologist for the brutal, illegal occupation. Then it seems to be ok.

    • richardmillett

      Have you visited the West Bank, Rich? Actually you made some silly comment implying Jews knew they were heading for the gas chambers knowing they were gas chambers.

    • Or if you’re a member of a nutty Far Right European anti-immigration party, the Yad Vashem is a photo opp!

  129. I don’t think I did. You may have read it like that but that isn’t what I said. My recollection is using it as one of the more obvious examples of people doing things that they didn’t want to do, in response to your saying people don’t do things they don’t want to do.

    Yes Richard I have clocked up about 5 months flying hours in the west bank. ( total ) You ?

  130. Daniel Marks

    I blame Richard. We’ve had some excellent anti-Zionist propagandists here, but, for reasons unknown, they were made to feel less than welcome on this excellent blog and now we’re left with the likes of these characters instead. My two all-time favorites were Tony Greenstein and the inscrutable Khalid Amayreh; and as I sit here in my Judean garden, brushing off a fly who appears to have found that grain of brown sugar carelessly dropped by my study partner, as I recline further into my chair and hark back to yesteryear, I miss them both very much.

    I too have seen Midnight in Paris and I know we many of us have a tendency to romanticize about golden ages that seemed far less enchanting at the time, but as I take that last sip of my unsweetened mint tea, I’m sure that even then they were larger than life.

    Tony courageously champions the working class struggle of Brighton, but was never too busy to write an anti-Israel blog or to get thrown out of the Merchant of Venice. Tony was only briefly active on this excellent site, but he knew how to ruffle feathers with the best of them and created a buzz, the reverberations of which are still felt.

    Khalid’s stopover on this blog was even briefer, but this Hebron-born Palestinian intellectual was famously able to compare us all to Nazis and call us Kikes all on the same page. He claimed Talmudic expertise and it is my considered opinion that he does know more than at least one rabbi’s son I know, but shall remain nameless.

    These were men among men and they gave as good as they got. They took every punch on the chin and rolled with the blows. They shared a natural charisma that caused even their harshest detractors to marvel at their talents and to excitedly await their next comment.

    I should also mention a certain Dubitante, who though never reaching the heights of either Tony or Khalid did display an enviable understanding of international law and not inconsequential literary talents. Where have they all gone? How have the mighty fallen?

    Though Dubitante was more of an enigma, both Tony and Khalid have blogs of their own and I posted on both begging them to return. Though both responded quite cordially, they declined my invitation and as nature will not tolerate a vacuum their places have sadly been filled by the likes of the Gerts and the Riches of this world – G-d help us!

    This is not really a comment, but more of an open letter to foes of days gone by to return home. It will be posted on their blogs too.

    As the youthful Gertie has said, I am an old man (apparently a Conservative too). Doesn’t this ancient Tory deserve something better in his twilight years? Have the passing of five decades and a year not entitled me to more than:

    “It is all in your head Daniel. Your head is a very crowded place, what with these imaginings and the voices and all.”


    • Daniel

      how dare you?

      I will not have Richard blamed for anything.

      Insofar as it is possible for humans to be I’ve very soon after having “met” him begun to regard Richard as perfect (Oh how often I wish I had my temper as much under control as he has this) and I have had never reason to correct that view. (no irony intended)

      • Daniel Marks

        Hi Silke,

        Don’t get me wrong. I’ve never met Richard, though I used to pray with his father and once played golf in Stanmore with his sister, but I love him and his blog. Neither do I blame him alone, I think many of us prefer to have the punch-bags like Rich on this blog than the knowledgeable eloquent ones like Tony or Khalid who can return fight blow for blow and to whom we sometimes lose a round or two.

        It’s just that, as someone who has recently finished a book about boxing, I ask how much can we learn from sparring partners with glass chins? Just look at that his last reply, it’s too tedious to even answer. He can’t write, can’t spell, knows nothing about the subject of discussion and can’t tell a turnip from JFK.

        Don’t you think we deserve something better?

      • Daniel

        you certainly deserve something better, something much much better IMHO than those whose departure you deplore.

        You see I wish that for once somebody would show up who made even the tiniest argument that I don’t have to discard because of its lack of logic (leaving the obvious lies aside for a moment) out of hand.

        It is this shameless talking of obvious nonsense indulged in by the small fray around here as much as by highly regarded journalists, who are not ashamed to write stuff that in the context of a novel would be immediately hatchet jobbed by critics.

    • Judean? Was King Herod a relative? Whoops, I forgot…he was the son of an Edomite who was brutally forced..on pain of death… into conversion by the Hasmoneans. They…and the Maccabees…were such a nice and cosy people, weren’t they? Sort of people you could sit down with and have a rational discussion about their beliefs. Not. They also gratuitously destroyed the Samaritan temple…as glorious an edifice as the Second Temple. Yes, Yonathan Hyrcunus, the Hssmonean leader, was a man who didn’t mess with silly niceties like brotherly love and peace.
      By the way Daniel, have you any proof of your biological/genetic link to the ancient Judeans by way of legitimising your presence on disputed territory?

  131. Good grief, full marks for meandering verbosity.

    Daniel did your momma never teach you that less is very often more ?

    You say I am addicted to being here. In fact I am here out of curiosity. I will be here only for so long as I feel I am learning something.At the moment I am learning loads. You are indeed a fine teacher Daniel. It is you that is addicted. You CAN’T stay away. You have found a place where you can feel safe, and important, and affirmed.

    Such fragility.

    Tell you what let’s test it. What say we both quit and the first one back is a big girl’s blouse ?

    • I want Daniel to stay, very very much so, not least because his “meandering” is such a delightful treat for in-love-with-great-story-tellers-me.

      Daniel has been here a lot longer than rich.

      Already for that reason alone is rich to imagine himself on equal footing with Daniel a clinical case of a megalomaniac’s delusional pretension.

    • ”I think many of us prefer to have the punch-bags like Rich on this blog than the knowledgeable eloquent ones like Tony […]”

      The only time EVER I’ve seen Daniel take on Tony G was on HIS blog and it was about a minor theological point.

      • Finally Gert confesses to not be all-knowing.

      • Daniel Marks

        Nonsense Gert,

        Tony is an excellent debater and we had a fine old time. You could both learn a lot from this guy:


      • To refresh my memory I had a look at Tony’s blog:

        He sure got very nice freckles and even nicer curls – does anybody know whether the latter are entirely natural? – looking at them makes me feel so jealous. It would be such a relief to learn that he gets them via a regular perm.

        But seriously – what I can’t understand how you can be anti-Zionist and anti-racist at the same time? – That strikes me as wanting to eat the cake and keep it, especially if on top of it all you support the currently probably world champions of racism the Palestinians.

        Understanding the mysteries of the human mind aka knowing what is hypocrisy and what inability to define stuff properly for example is so often beyond me.

      • Tony’s heart is in the right place but he is one of nature’s bickerers and parochial inter cult squabblers. It surprises me not that fragile Daniel has a high opinion of him.

  132. Don’t fret yourself Silke, Daniel wants to stay very,very much so too. All is well.

  133. Anyway Daniel you up for the test ?

  134. Yuk please don’t do that Silke, your mothering is Daniel’s trip.

    • wrong again

      the philosophy you claim to have studied certainly didn’t do anything to get your powers of perception up to scratch.

      The only two guys around here who trigger my mothering instincts are you and Gert. Though I must admit that with Gert there from time to time have been emanating other attractions also.

      And then of course his faulty German, so cute ain’t it in its multi-interpretalability. Always trying to be too smart for his own good.

      It makes me figure him as a brimming to the hilt and beyond with desired by no one hormons youth.

      • ”Though I must admit that with Gert there from time to time have been emanating other attractions also.”

        Like the attraction of claiming I had nicked your knickers… I mean your google moniker?

      • well, the “knickers” part I can’t prove, but fact is, that you explained the “mystery” to me very nicely – without your help I could have never ever found out how it is done though once one knows, it looks like it is a fairly simple trick to enable one to pose as if one were a well known somebody else.

        But wrong again little cute boy you, while typing the above I was thinking of that lovely sneer that that beer swilling Gert Meyers on Facebook? has, the one you claim that it isn’t you.
        Oh, what a pity it is gone? Did you take it off because I said the guy looked like somebody who got pimples easily? Did that hit a nerve with you? As best I remember it did. Poor Gert, has lived through so many decades and still not matured beyond teenage sensitivities.

        But here’s another one, a philosopher to boot and he looks like he might well be Gert’s younger twin. If that philosopher is a relation Gert should tell him to do something about the beard. It looks decidedly unbecoming.

        14:25 Parkhavenzaal S Gert Meyers – Negotiating a cold war

        Gert Meyers – Negotiating a cold war – Merleau-Ponty argues in The philosopher and sociology that realism and intellectualism see themselves as the only possible entry to ‘correct’ knowledge on man. They are at cold war, because they draw « des frontières qui les assure de ne jamais rencontrer » (1960 ; 160). Merleau-Ponty attacks this vision and proposes a humanistic conception of the humanities. In this paper I will elaborate what is Merleau-Ponty’s motivation for this humanistic approach and against the rigid divide present in philosophy and social sciences. Further I will question if and why this humanism can be still interesting today.


      • Silke honey I really think you should go lie down a while.

  135. What ?

    • Did you know she’s the offspring of a guy who volunteered for Uncle Adolf’s Wehrmacht? I kid you NOT! The apple didn’t fall too far from the tree…

      • Gert

        how little it takes to make you do what I want you to do –
        if somebody shows you a stick and tells you jump you jump
        and you still do after all that trouble I took hoping you might be able to learn something.

  136. Silke:

    I have two facebook accounts. One for business but I never use it, because I can’t be arsed. Another one someone convinced me to get years ago and haven’t used in years. I also don’t recall (or care for) the password and username. I do get facebook notifications on that one but can’t (and won’t) log in. Facebook is well below me. Whatever you plastered wherever I haven’t seen it.

    I do also occasionally get copied on emails, clearly CCd to another Gert Meyers. It’s far from an unusual name in Belgium and Holland.

    It’s very likely that the facebook account you’re referring to is someone else’s.

    I have no interest in facebook, myspace or any of that junk.

    The philosopher is neither me nor a relation of mine but shows what I wrote.

    • Darling Gert

      just to save you time and effort lemme tell you I register at facebook every now and then for one purpose only i.e. when a local friend wants me to look at his latest normally wonderful attempts at photography. I had no influence on his chosing facebook for that purpose and I haven’t even “befriended” him but I am guilty of tolerating facebook for the delight I get from looking at his stuff.

      And something else – would you please tell rich that you and I go back such a long time that he, as a newcomer, understandably longing to be your equal in my favours, must bide his time and accept your taking precedence.

      (Note for Daniel: somehow this summer’s reading seems to be all 16th century England – incongruously enough it was reading Ivanhoe that got me started.)

  137. Well, well, well. I’ve just managed to login to the personal facebook page via an email. Loads of people who want to be my ‘friend’, few that I recognise (a few friendly bloggers). No messages, no Silke.

    It’s not too late Silke! Do your worst!

    • So if you can find my ‘wall’, please go p*ss on it, with or without kn*ckers. But keep your hat on…

    • Ah saw that only now – and so all my trying to do you good was once again in vain.

      I feel flattered though to notice how keen you are to find me in real life – so you can warn me that walking outside in the dark may be too dangerous for me to dare?

  138. Damsel in distress, Richard fancies…

    • richardmillett

      No. It’s just all ridiculously off topic.

      • OK Richard got it – I’ll stop there – I’ll ignore both from now on –

        My apologies that I couldn’t resist the temptation to make Gert do it again. I somehow can’t believe how predictable he is.

        But as to apple not far from the tree, my father landed himself in jail while still in basic training in Germany. There is ample evidence that I have inherited his refusal to do degrading stuff.

  139. Daniel Marks

    “…..once not too long ago reasoned argued debate was perfectly possible here.”

  140. Daniel Marks

    Oh goody! If we’re returning to the original topic, allow me to refer you to an early comment.


    • Therefore, if a hundred Jewish kids get together in London to denounce settlement building or equate the policy of the Israeli government with Apartheid, but one boy meets one girl and they eventually get married and have their 1.65 Jewish children, I say that it is better that the meeting took place than if it hadn’t.

      1.65/couple might not be a great survival strategy?

  141. amazing