Yachad debates “Is the Two State Solution Dead?”

Hannah Weisfeld, of Yachad, and Davis Lewin, of the Henry Jackson Society, were invited by King’s College London’s Israeli Palestinian Forum to debate “Is The Two State Solution Dead?”

Last night they were up against Jayyab Abusafia, from Jabalia Refugee Camp in Gaza, a freelance journalist who works for Alalamia TV in London, and Jafar M Ramini, a Palestinian writer and commentator on Palestinian/Arab affairs who was born in Jenin and educated in London and who is “a passionate advocate of peaceful co-existence based on the acknowledgement of equal rights and dignity for all”.

Hannah Weisfeld made the case for the two state solution citing the separate identities of both peoples as one important factor. She also cited the fear that Israelis have from the constant rocket attacks and the sight of Palestinians who celebrate the release of Palestinian prisoners with blood on their hands.

Yachad is not to everyone’s taste but it is a breathe of fresh air to hear Israel criticised when set against the two Palestinian commentators who painted a picture of the Palestinians as perfect.

For example, below you can hear Jayyab Abusafia describe Hamas as having transformed themselves into a group of moderates and Jafar M Ramini describing the rockets that are fired into Israel as “fireworks”.

Meanwhile, Weisfeld mentioned the recent “pricetag” attack on a mosque in Israel, but said that five mosques had been destroyed by settlers in the West Bank and this had been unreasonably tolerated by the IDF with no arrests made.

Abusafia describes Israel as having locked the gates to Gaza and thrown the key into the sea with no mention of Egypt also having a key to Gaza, while Jafar M Ramini went back as far as 1890 to start his twisted account of so-called Zionist expansionism and quoted “A land without a people for a people without a land” as the Zionist war cry.

He later invoked the Holocaust saying he had nothing to do with it after having told a totally gratuitous anecdote about Jews suing the German authorities even for the gold that was taken out of their teeth.

Yachad  are trying to concentrate on the here and now to try and work out how the Israelis and the Palestinians can forge peace. The problem is that those representing the Palestinians want to continue arguing over 1948 and, even, 1890.

That is a conundrum Yachad will have to try to solve but at least they are there on campus working hard, while other traditional pro-Israel organisations are absent.

But I think that Davis Lewin spoke for most in the room last night when he said that the evening had helped neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians.

Against the Two State Solution – Jafar M Ramini and Jayyab Abusafia: (try switching browser if viewing problems)

For the Two State Solution – Hannah Weisfeld and Davis Lewin:

20 responses to “Yachad debates “Is the Two State Solution Dead?”

  1. Furnival Friend

    Is Hannah dressed modestly enough this time?

  2. I wonder how close Yachad are to Peace Now.

    I have just read a very long and apparently very honest and guileless report from Jello Biafra about his visit to Israel.

    Please note that he mentions a child murder in Florida but murdered “settlers” do not show up in his account. By all normal standards he is a highly moral person who reflects a lot about ethics.

    Sorry but in the light of what I have learned there I can’t warm to “at least they do something”.

    http://my.firedoglake.com/jellobiafra/2011/11/01/42/

  3. If the Palestinians are sincere for a peaceful two state solution, why does Abbas insist he will NEVER recognise Israel as ‘the nation state of the Jewish people’ (Quartet quote), and will never ask Hamas either?

  4. I hate this pathetic excuse “The rockets fired into Israel are no more than fireworks”-
    They are fired with the intent of killing civilians. Of demoralising the community. Of causing worry and concern to the people.
    If Jafar M Ramini wanted to say something constructive it should have been to tell Hamas to stop firing rockets completely-

  5. Why is this two states for two people non viable? See the Hamas Charter that remains unchanged since it was written:
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

    So let’s be clear – the Hamas charter calls for death of all Jews – Genocide of all Jews, not only in Israel but worldwide. This is the group that was elected by nearly 90% of the population of Gaza.

    Try the PLO Charter that remains unchanged since it was written:
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp
    Article 1:
    Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
    Article 2:
    Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

    So let’s be clear that the PLO regards Palestine as all the territories that comprised the British Mandate prior to 1947. And this is the group that was elected by the overall majority of Arabs living on the West Bank territories.

    The reconciliation agreement signed in May 2011 between Hamas and the Fatah factions under Mahmoud Abbas means a future Palestinian state will be led by a Hamas-Fatah regime, with Hamas as the dominant party. However, the UK still lists Hamas as a terrorist organisation and although Hamas says its constitution is quoted out of context, as recently as 5th November 2010 its spiritual leader, Mahmoud Al –Zahar, stated on Al Aqsa TV:
    “…we [Hamas] are not less honourable than the people who annihilated the Jews [the Nazis]….you [the Jewish people] have no place among the nations of the world…you are heading for annihilation…” http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2676.htm.

    Furthermore, on 23rd September 2011, the same day Mahmoud Abbas applied to the UN for recognition of this Palestinian state, the Deputy Speaker of the Hamas Parliament, Ahmad Bahr stated: “… We Will Sweep the Siblings of Pigs and Apes [Jews] out of Our Land…” http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3146.htm

    Furthermore, if you listened to Abbas’ speech at the UN in September, he called for a “contiguous” Palestinian state. This words is sprouted freely by all and sundry but nobody explains how such a state can work without dividing Israel in two and making her more vulnerable to the achievement of an ultimate Palestine in all of the Mandated territory regardless of any agreement that might be signed.

    So what is this nonsense these armchair pseuds are sprouting about settlements, legitimacy, Jerusalem status and so on. Do they feel that ignoring these charters, being deaf to the words of the CURRENT leaders of the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, will mean they will simply go away whilst they sit in London making stupid recommendations to the Israeli government?

    Worse still is that these pseuds give ammunition to Israel’s detractors and her enemies. If they got off their armchairs and came out on the streets they would the likes of the BDS, PSC etc quoting them, these Jews, as allies of Israel’s enemies. Now they probably don’t mean to give that message, but that’s is what is heard and that is the message the leaders of the West pick up on and then either abstain from voting on important issues re Israel’s safety or vote against Israel. It also gives confidence to people like Abbas to forge ahead with his desires.

  6. The two state solution is unnecessary- it already exists- Its called JORDAN.
    It was 80% of that Mandated land Palestine-Postage Stamps with the head of the late kings Abdullah and Hussein had the word Palestine embossed on them as well as Jordan.
    No one but no one wants to discuss it!

    • richardmillett

      Have you seen those stamps? It would be good to buy a few of them.

    • This is the only discussion that there should be on the table. Jordan has to be part of any solution and this is the country that represents the Palestinians. The end result should be as intended with two states – Israel West of the Jordan River and Palestine East of the river and those who don’t want to be non national citizens of either state can simply move across the border or elsewhere.

  7. Hannah kindly reminded us all of the biggest threat – babies.

  8. Have you seen those stamps? It would be good to buy a few of them.-
    if you go on line to-
    http://www.eretzyisroel.org- search for “The history of the words “Palestine” and “Palestinians” You will see authentic pictures of them.
    I would not know where to buy them- as I have no interest in Phalataly.
    But they must be around. from 1920 on.

  9. richardmillett

    It’s a bad link.

  10. In which case Richard try Googling “The history of the words “Palestine” and “Palestinians” by s.Katz- on http://www.eretztisroel.org
    I have just typed the www page and it comes through.

  11. PS If you type in the link it comes thru` for some reason it fails if clicked from my post.

  12. Excuse me, but could someone tell me why Israel should agree to a ‘two-state solution’, thereby giving away at the point of a gun, land that has been Jewish for thousands of years? Why? Have we become so weak, so desperate to be ‘liked’ that we get down on our knees and perform a sex act on an already Jew-hating world???

  13. There will not be two states in the Holy Land.

    Think Kingdom…