Anti-Semitic protests finally force Ahava to close in Covent Garden.

Bloodied but unbowed: Ahava after a recent attack.

Bloodied but unbowed: Ahava after a recent attack.

What a shame that Ahava’s landlords have finally succumbed to pressure from Ahava’s neighbours not to extend Ahava’s lease due to the regular noisy protests in the vicinity of Ahava.

And for anyone in doubt as to the true nature of the anti-Ahava protests one only has to glance at the website that promotes them to find rhetoric and images that equate the plight of the Palestinians with the plight of the Jews under the Nazis.

If anyone really think that these protests are simply about Israel’s so-called occupation and Ahava’s production plant being located on the “West Bank”, then they are seriously deluded.

For example, the said website reads:

“John played a very appropriate tune on his saxophone, sung in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943 and later made famous by Paul Robeson, a voice for the oppressed, who can be heard singing the song here. Images of Nazi Germany in the video are similar to what Palestinians are experiencing today under Israeli occupation. Here’s a link to a comparison of some very graphic images of Nazi Germany and Palestine and I’m certain that you’ll find the similarities striking.”

And the protests call for a boycott of Israel, not just Ahava (see end photo).

The reason that the lease was not extended has nothing to do with the landlord disagreeing with Israeli policy, but all to do with the noisy anti-Ahava protests, which some of Ahava’s neighbours ran to the landlord, like squealing little schoolboys, to complain about.

According to the Jewish Chronicle, Colin George of The Loft, which is next door to Ahava, commented:

“I’m pleased Ahava is leaving. It’s brought the street down. I’ve complained to the landlords, as has everyone here. Everyone would like them to leave. I wish they had left two years ago.”

That last comment does not ring at all true. The anti-Ahava protests have been taking place for around about 15 or 16 months at the most and relations between the shops were very friendly before the protests started.

Now, instead of condemning the anti-Israel protests for causing the nuisance, quite incredibly, Mr George has condemned Ahava!

I stand by my comment in the JC:

“Maybe the neighbours could have had a more positive role and spoken to the protesters, rather than take it out on Ahava. It’s sad that this country will allow a lawfully trading shop to be chased out because of the politics of people who disagree with Israel’s basic existence.”

One might disagree with the legality of the “settlements”, but that is just conjecture, opinion and a matter of interpretation. There is no law anywhere that states the “settlements” are illegal.

We could debate their legality and morality until the cows come home (and have a very interesting discussion over it).

Therefore, the protests outside Ahava really come down to one thing; the existence of the Jewish state.

If I am wrong and the protests are simply about Ahava and so-called Israeli oppression of the Palestinians then virtually every shop in London should have a regular protest outside it for breaching some form of morality or law. Sweat shops in China, anyone?

And if the anti-Ahava protests are simply anti-Ahava then surely they have achieved their purpose. They have managed to shut down Ahava and so will not need to take place anymore.

My bet is that the protests will continue. They are more about defaming the Jewish state than anything else, and that says all you need to know about the nature of the beast we are dealing with here; anti-Semitism.

And in this specific instance I am not playing, what some call, “the anti-Semitism card”.

Are these protests really about Ahava?

Are these protests really about Ahava?

94 responses to “Anti-Semitic protests finally force Ahava to close in Covent Garden.

  1. who are the landlords ?

  2. From 1931-2 SA “brownshirt” thugs prevented customers from entering Jewish shops, windows were systematically smashed and Jewish shop owners threatened. In Christmas 1932, the central office of the Nazi party organised a nation-wide boycott. In addition German businesses, particularly large organisations like Banks, Insurance companies and industrial firms such as Siemens, increasingly refused to employ Jews.Many hotels, restaurants and Cafes barred Jews from entering and the resort island of Borkum banned Jews anywhere on the island. Such behaviour was common in pre-war Europe, however in Germany it reached new extremes…. Whats next in Europe 2011?

  3. what a sad sad sad story
    and yes Richard, your comment was spot on.

  4. its a shame???

    its criminal

    in this economy that a landlord would be party to putting out a biz and that a neighbor would blame the victim?

    its sick

    it shows the sickness that permeates england

    i will not watch doctor who in protest

  5. Sharon Klaff

    “The possibility of obtaining an injunction has been considered by a number of the neighbouring businesses but, understandably, they don’t wish to be seen to take sides and get drawn into the dispute. Furthermore, there do seem to be a number of different factions and individuals involved, which would no doubt complicate the process.
    Ahava’s lease expires in September of this year and I have already advised our tenant that we will not be able to extend the term.”

    There are a few issues here:

    1. The neighbouring businesses do not wish to take sides
    2. The Ahava lease was due to expire in September anyway
    3. The landlords have decided not to renew the lease as the best solution to getting the rabble rousers out of Monmouth Street – they prefer to tacitly support race hate than the victims of race hate

    So what has really happened here is that the neighbouring businesses have indeed been drawn in by demanding that the landlord not renew the lease when it expires. How are they involved? They are guilty of being party to the first Jewish shop being closed in Europe because of race hate since the Holocaust that started with the first Jewish shop closing, then schools were barred to Jews, then jobs were barred to Jews, then – the march to the gas chambers started and we all know what happened next. Indeed some 50 years after that event the Western world has decided it is timely to build Holocaust Museums all of the place to commemorate the gassed Jews whilst at the same time allowing it all to happen again – talk of the wheels of the truck going round and round!

    And let’s be clear here – Ahava is targeted because it is a Jewish owned Israeli company – had it been an Arab/Muslim/Christian owned Israeli company it would have been welcomed as a success by these race hating thugs and they would be buying the products rather than calling for boycotts and closures.

    One of the criminals who was on trial last week for aggravated entry into the Ahava store last year is called Christopher Osmond. Could it be the self same Christopher Osmond who smashed the factory in Brighton on the pretext that it supplied arms to Israel and whom the now reprimanded anti-Semitic Judge Bathurst Norman set free and commanded for a George Cross? It is now questionable whether this factory did indeed supply Israel with arms – just a little fact nobody bothered to check in their haste spread race hate of Jews. Could there be something re Ahava that these thugs, the neighbouring businesses and the landlords have also not bothered to find out?

    What is clear is that they are all complicit in being mollified at the least by the thugs who have caused the problems in Monmouth Street – some I guess actively support the thugs.

  6. Richard, this is indeed a sad story.

    I agree with Sharon Klaff above, that for all the mealy-mouthed excuses from the landlords, people HAVE taken sides or have been bystanders whilst this egregious behaviour took place.

    And my contempt for Colin George’s statement knows no bounds. All decent people, regardless of their political leanings, faith, creed or race should boycott Loft, his shop.

    His attitude makes me feel ashamed to be British. Thanks to behaviour like this the barbarians are taking control .

    • What a disgusting man he is. I have already told him that my family will boycott it, and I have started an email campaign to that effect.

      • So now you do agree with a boycott, make your mind up

      • Leah, can you tell me how you went about it? I would like to do the same. Can you also tell me the names of the businesses on Monmouth Street which were affected by the demonstrations? It might be a good idea to contact them too.

  7. I bet none of these Jew hating protesters in the UK have been to Mitzpe Shalom to see that no ‘palestinians’, or anyone else, ever lived there anyway…it’s desert for Pete’s sake! The Ahava plant is located in a place that no Arab wanted to use or live in. It’s a small, almost unnoticeable community, off the Dead Sea road. If there were no sign, nobody would know it was there. To say it’s stolen land is a big lie. But let’s face it, even if these cretins saw with their own eyes the reality on the ground, it wouldn’t change a thing in their petty, vicious and poisoned minds.
    As for the neighbouring businesses, Napoleon….who was a friend of the Jews…..called the English a nation of shopkeepers. I assume he was referring to a petty small mindedness. He got that right.
    Ahava would do well to relocate to Hampstead or Golders Green with a friendlier customer base, but they will still have these neo-brownshirt hyenas hounding them down.

  8. This situation stinks. This is like the bullied child being expelled for being a nuisance to others. I can’t say I wish the surrounding shops well if that is their attitude.

    Ahava should move to a friendly envionment in North London.

  9. Sharon Klaff

    Adam, Roger. In saying that Ahava should move to North London to be in a friendly environment is simply continuing this thread of Nazification: Jews can’t own shops in non Jewish areas so they must huddle in ghettos – sound familiar? You don’t understand the enormity of this landlord’s decision. It’s a first in this millenium – the quiet endorsment of recreating the ghettos of Europe last century and if we Jews fall in on line our journey has one direction: first stop North London, then on to exactly where?!

    As in Nazj Germany they start with the judiciary – Judge Bathurst Norman and various barristers’ chambers using laws meant to maintain a civil society to attack Jews trying to hide there intention by using the term Israel – it then goes to commerce as we see with Ahava who in a sense tows their line as they don’t wish to be seen as a Jewish business, trying as did assimilationists in Germany to hide amongst the locals, not understanding that Jews cannot hide thus as Jew haters and ignorant politicians won’t allow that. It moves on to schools – in Sheffield a secondary school already teaches Islam and Christianity and not Judaism and the RE teacher tells the students that Jesus was killed because he was good and we all know who they blame for his death, thus telling the students that Jews kill good people!

    None of those attacking Jews have heard of the 12th imam and those who have are working positively to it’s coming. I guess posters haven’t heard of this either. I suggest you google and check it out!

    Do I really have to spell it out?

  10. Well done Richard you played your trump card, but it’s too late and it has fooled no-one. Branding the campaigners anti-semitic and wishing for the destruction of Israel has back fired spectacularly.

    I think your Hasbara masters are going to be having words with you. Good luck.

    • Mostly, you are a complete idiot. Probably one who has a psychological problem with Jews.

      • No Leah, as much as you would like to paint me as some evil anti semite, I am just a regular guy who, when he sees injustice, does something about it.

      • Mostly is acting like a troll. Ignore and avoid. It will go away if you don’t respond to the bait.

      • “a regular guy who, when he sees injustice, does something about it.”

        A delusional guy with Jew-issues, darling.

    • ‘I think your Hasbara masters are going to be having words with you.’

      I am afraid a statement like that, Armless, puts you firmly in the category of antisemite.

  11. It would be a real shame if this shop went online, as I enjoy visiting and they have the treatments as well. However, if it was to open up in North West London in an area such as Golder’s Green, then it will only buck the trend of cheap and tatty shops and chain stores opening up in such areas and there will be PLENTY of counter protestors there too. There are many Jewish shops in these neighbourhoods and many Jewish residents who I am sure will show their support. Save them having to travel into Covent Garden for their supplies.

  12. But I agree with Sharon Klaff on a lot of points. And whilst I deplore the bahviour of some of the settlers, the same criticism is not applied to other countries where such behaviour is normal. The world’s media has barely batted an eyelid at Egypt for the horific persecution of the Christian’s there. Such protester’s choose the easy target because they do not have the spine to go against a much larger group or a religion such as Islam. Britain is a JOKE when it comes to human rights and the right to choose one’s belief (witness the attacks on Glen Hoddle, Scientology, the pro-Tibet protester’s some years ago). Jewish people are living in Israel due to the world turning a blind eye to the holocaust as well as a lack of religious freedom in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Britain did not intervene in WW2 until it’s own shores were threatened and knew what was going on the whole time, but did nothing. This is not to discredit the brave soldiers who helped to fight the German’s, but Britain’s long running spiritually bankrupt establishment that today is allowing the media to run a hostile and prejudiced campaign against any group that does not toe the party line, which includes Israel and it’s supporters.

  13. Mostly Harmless, you do get around, don’t you? And you make less and less sense wherever you post.

    FYI (and I know you must have been told this before) singling out Israel for particular opprobrium (I think the Nazis called it “special treatment”) IS antisemitic, whether you agree or not.

  14. Sharon, you don’t so far as I am concerned. The end result for the Twelvers and other lunatics will be the eradication of people like Mostly Harmless and the BDSers as well as their targets.

    • Sharon Klaff

      Problem is in their total ignorance of the real battle they will drag us all down with them. I do not wish to follow Islam and I always believed that the leaders of my Western Civilisation would protect me against enforced slavery to something I do not believe in – how fool me to be so naive as to think that Cameron, Hague, Obama and their buddies have a clue as to how to protect the nation!!

      • They have no wish to protect the nation. They are simply out for themselves. They are traitors, pure and simple, and that is how history will judge them as it judges other similar traitors – if there is any western civilisation and history left in the next century.

      • Sharon Klaff

        Since the 12th Imam will wipe out all history there will be no record of their behaviour!!

  15. Roger, just posted this on the trial thread in response to your assertion…

    Richard could have reported that, as was said in evidence, all the defendants have indeed been there and have visited both the Ahava factory and surrounding areas several times. Their case is certainly not weaker as a result.

    • So what? It means nothing. Believing is seeing. They went there wearing blinkers and only saw what they wanted to see.

  16. No, it’s weaker because they are racists.

  17. Daniel Marks

    Richard and Everyone Else,

    I’m sorry to hear that Ahava’s landlord has decided not to renew the lease, but I think a little perspective may be required here. This is not the destruction of the temple, the fall of the Warsaw Ghetto or even the expulsion of 8,000 Jews from Gush Katif. Bottom line, we are talking about a highly profitable cosmetics shop relocating to another address in London.

    I am not blind to the fact that many wonderful people have made the welfare of the Ahava store into their own personal struggle for that I admire them beyond words. Neither am I oblivious to the fact that many of us, me included, saw their struggle as being a microcosmic representation of a battleground of good against evil, Anti-Semitism versus those who oppose it.

    Furthermore, I have no doubt that the enemies of Israel will be turning down the volume of their TV lest the killings of Kadafi and the assassinations of Assad interrupt victory celebrations. Thus I say, “Let them make merry.” The blood of their allies stains the Arabian sands as they murder each other in the most barbaric manner imaginable, but no one can take from them that they have forced a cosmetics shop in London to relocate, “To the victor belong the spoils”.

    Like many of you I suspect that this may be but a prelude to struggles ahead. Struggles that may have begun at the Ahava store in Covent Garden, but that shall surely reach other cities of Europe and other capitals of the world. Neither do I believe that in these struggles Jews will or should stand at the vanguard of those opposing the dark clouds of radical Islam. It is for Englishmen to fight for the character of England and Frenchmen to fight for the future of France. If they do, like us they will always prevail. If they don’t, no Board of Deputies or Zionist Federation will be their saviors.

    So I say to all those advocates of Ahava, those champions of Covent Gardens that, like the legendary expeditionary force of Dunkirk, you have done all that anyone could have done and now it is time for you all to come home. Bathe in the real Dead Sea where no cosmetics are required, feast on the beauty of the Land of Israel drink of her wine and eat of her fruits.

    “Return, Israel, to the LORD your G-d…Take words with you and return to the LORD”.

    Shabbat shalom

  18. meanwhile, more ugliness in Germany.

    German police take two people displaying the Israeli flag into custody.

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/03/german-police-take-two-people.html

    http://tapferimnirgendwo.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/deutsche-polizei-verbietet-solidaritat-mit-israel/

    ”Once again it has happened. At a demonstration in front of the Berlin Hauptbahnhof on 27 March 2011, that called for a boycott against Israel, police took two men into custody because they refused to cease their peaceful expression of solidarity with Israel by displaying an Israeli flag.

    On March 27 2011 there was a demonstration at the Berlin Hauptbahnhof exhibition. The State of Israel was accused of apartheid (an almost racist comparison) and a boycott of Israeli products was demanded. The brutal terrorist acts against Israel, however, have been omitted, downplayed or justified.

    At some point two people at the exhibition held up an Israeli flag. That’s all they did! They did not interfere, they didn’t scream, nor did they riot. Neither did they chant anti-Palestinian slogans, nor did they display any signs with anti-Palestinian views.

    This humanity, however, provoked the pro-Palestinian demonstrators. They went off to the two people. The mere existence of the Israeli flag was already a thorn in their eye,as with Hamas, the mere existence of the State of Israel and Jews is a problem to be solved at all.

    When the demonstrators turned to the police, the police did not defend right of two people to hold the flag of a peaceful democratic country, but instead they took down the flag of Israel and took the two people in custody.”

  19. Sharon, you are of course right. Such is the situation in 21st century Britian – Jewish shops are being boycotted, and Israel singled out by vicious antisemites and bigots.

  20. Thank God I'm An Infidel

    I don’t understand the animus towards Israel considering that it wasn’t Israel which:

    – bombed London buses and underground on 7/7/05
    – murdered policewoman Yvonne Ridley
    – openly demonstrate carrying placards that threaten the UK and Europe with massacres

    – threaten writers and artists with death
    – bombed Pan Am 103
    – released the bomber of Pan Am 103 on “compassionate” grounds, in exchange for libyan oil contracts.

  21. Daniel Marks is right- Israel and the real Dead Sea are there and waiting! No one has to live in England if they don’t want to. The best way to strengthen Israel is to live there and help it thrive and to prosper.

    And on a more positive note. The Ahava shop may have lower rents and more custom in a North West London neighbourhood.

  22. I think this is the sort of stuff that Sharon Klaff is worried about coming to the UK:

    Two UN staff beheaded and eight others murdered in protest against U.S. pastor who burnt Koran

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372442/Two-UN-staff-beheaded-murdered-protest-U-S-pastor-burnt-Koran.html#ixzz1IIbLERgX

    • Perhaps. I am looking at the under tow – the message sent out that Muslims like hordes of angry killer bees will turn violently on the wider populace if anyone should offend them, in reality or in their imaginations.

      Western nations are pitifully ill equipped to deal with such mindless violence by masses of people on the flimsiest of pretexts – instead they behave like parents who are terrified of their toddlers’ temper tantrums and fail to curb them. The result is that they rear thugs.

  23. A question. Is it permitted under UK law to call publicly for a boycott against a particular, person, or must the call be more general, say against a firm like Ahava or an organisation?

  24. Oh come off it, I have protested against Ahava from time to time and it’s clear that none of the demonstrators is anti-semitic (in particular the handful of anti-occupation Jews who come!?) I’m a scientist and many, if not most, of my greatest heroes were Jewish. Please, relax, this is paranoia.

    I’ll admit it makes me uncomfortable to campaign for boycotting Israel (as it would any country), but not as much as it fills me with sadness to see the hopes of the Palestinians for restoration of their dignity fading by the day. Last year Israeli settlement building increased four-fold! This is not the behaviour of a government that has any interest in reconciliation.

    I promise with the greatest sincerity that as soon as Israelis and Palestinians get treated comparably – as human beings – in their shared homeland, I’ll buy myself an Ahava gift hamper

    • richardmillett

      What do you mean by shared homeland? The only way is a two state solution. If you are denying the Jews their own homeland, but not the many Muslim and Christian nations, then surely you must understand why people consider you to have doubtful motives despite your entreaties to the opposite. And don’t think that your kissing a Jew gives you cover from an accusation of anti-Semitism. You may be a scientist but you clearly lack common sense, Sam P.

    • “it’s clear that none of the demonstrators is anti-semitic”

      Crap.

    • ”many, if not most, of my greatest heroes were Jewish.”

      Now where have I heard that before? Ah yes, Ribbentrop at the Nuremberg trial, trying to save his skin, telling the judges that he had had Jewish friends.

      Sorry mate, it doesn’t wash. You’re an antisemite, but not at a level you’re conscious of…hence even more insidious.

  25. OK Sam, why don’t you start with the PA and Hamas and have THEM treat the poor wretches they rule with a rod of iron comparably with how the Israeli government treats Israeli Arabs? Address a letter to the UN and post a copy here. How many Arabs resident in Israel would wish to move into the PA or into Gaza to be alongside their brethren under those conditions, do you think?

    I am continually astounded (although heaven knows that I shouldn’t be by now because I keep coming across it from well-meaning but wholly ignorant people like yourself ) that you (plural) just don’t get it! Look up the meaning of discrimination. Then google search all the UN resolutions against alleged human rights breaches by Israel compared with those by the PA and Hamas and against infamous dictatorships like Saudi and Libya. Have there ever been any resolutions against Hamas for, eg, abusing their children’s human rights by inculcating into them that they should want to grow up to murder Israelis? Did you know about that? Do you ever feel “uncomfortable” about that, or do you pull a smiley face sticking plaster out of your emotional first aid kit to tell yourself a story about it to make yourself feel better about Hamas using its women and children as human shields instead of moving honestly towards the compromises which would result in a lasting peace?

    I am with Richard on this – and I also believe that you are ignorant of the complexities of whatever rationale is behind the boycott of Israeli goods and academics. And you should try to apply scientific thinking to all the facts about this complex situation, including doing the necessary research .

    So it makes you “uncomfortable” does it, when you sign a petition to boycott Israel? What are we meant to construe from that? How do you feel about AHAVA being driven from Covent Garden in a move reminiscent of Krystallnacht? Does that make you “uncomfortable” too? It should outrage you that for the first time in this country a Jewish shop has been driven from an area not for the disturbance it itself caused but because of the bullying tactics used by thugs, openly supported by “uncomfortable” people like yourself

    And why should anyone here care what you promise? Who are you anyway? You nailed your colours to the mast when you posted as you did. I am sure AHAVA could withstand losing your custom.

    For myself, I believe you to represent the typical half-informed bystander who witnesses this sort of abuse but DOES nothing to prevent it and by doing nothing helps it to thrive. I don’t believe you to be a wicked person, just a pitifully ignorant one. And I wonder how you can sleep at night.

    • “I believe you to represent the typical half-informed bystander”

      Hardly. He is actively aiding and abetting antisemitism.

      • You are right of course, Leah but from ignorance rather than animus I think. Of course this doesn’t make his views any less nauseating and they do provide the compost within which grows the sort of antisemitism we have seen here but they are representative of many of the half-informed boycotters I have met.

        The difficulty is that they won’t be educated, (and I say “won’t” rather than “cannot”) because if just once they allowed themselves really to believe that the situation is not as simplistic as they make it, that they may be wrong to hate Israel or to condemn her alone, this would have to result in a massive reordering of the way they construe everything in their world.

        The Sams of this world are indeed poisonous and their danger lies in their passive aggression and their appearing to be reasonable, until you dig below the surface.

        And all have in common a complete lack of insight into the way in which what they say and believe might be perceived by others, and this of course is their undoing on sites like this.

  26. Daniel is telling us that it’s no big deal. Move alone, old chap, nothing to see here, storm in a teacup.

    He completely fails to understand that just like Berlin in 1936, Jewish shops are targetted by antisemites and are forced to close down and relocate to the ghetto, in a supposedly civilised and cultures country. And just like Berlin in 1936, terribly wise people nod their heads and say sagely: “It’ll blow over, nothing to see here, in the mean time move along and don’t annoy the antisemites, old chap.”

  27. “Neither do I believe that in these struggles Jews will or should stand at the vanguard of those opposing the dark clouds of radical Islam. It is for Englishmen to fight for the character of England and Frenchmen to fight for the future of France.”

    So in other words, Jews who are British nationals have no business fighting for the future of their country, Britain. What a disgusting position to take.

  28. Sharon Klaff

    I went to the Ahava demo today with a heavy heart, feeling quite depressed that there is a mainstream of people in this, my adopted country, who would rather see a Jewish shop close than take the trouble to deal with the rabble rousers – shame on the landlords for taking this cowards way out, the line of least resistance, bending as low to these protestors who support the murder of Jewish children as Obama did to the Saudi king, scraping the barrel so to speak.

    At the demo was the girl who was arrested after the student riots last year for rabble rousing. She was gung ho and whooped up with conceit and ego – back on the streets with her cohorts, not the slightest bit worse for wear, returning her attention to her poor “Palestinians” having dealt with that other crucial issue, a demand for free university places for the likes of herself and her buddies to abuse and use against the very society that makes it all possible for them. In that riot all thought of her poor “Palestinians” were put on the back burner whilst she indulged herself in whatever got her arrested.

    Other than that it was business as usual the turncoat Jews who support this ill conceived cause they have created in order to give themselves a purpose in life, the Judas Jew donning a Kippah as though to mock the heritage that seeded his existence. He took umbrage in my reminding him that he was a Jew when he and his friends crossed the road to crowd my position there, so he called on his friendly policeman, the one with the heavy beard to put me on notice that I had made a “racial attack” on him” and tried to move me off the pavement. Of course I have my rights as this is still UK Unoccupied, as of today that is, and the chief policeman in charge confirmed this and allowed me to return to my perch across the road.

    The good news is that many of the passersby do not buy into their rubbish and are prepared to read and listen. At coffee afterwards when a group of us was discussing the day, some people eavesdropped on our conversation and then came over to wish us well in our plight to save our country for democracy and freedom from those who would it were otherwise.

  29. Daniel Marks

    Hi Leah,

    You made two very interesting points:

    “He (me) completely fails to understand that just like Berlin in 1936, Jewish shops are targetted by antisemites and are forced to close down and relocate to the ghetto…”

    I’m not certain I agree that London of 2011 is “just like Berlin in 1936” but let’s assume you’re right and it is. What advice would you give a Jew living in Berlin in 1936? Would you tell him to stay behind and fight against Nazi oppression or would you beg him to get the hell out of there?

    I would never blame the unfortunate German Jews who stayed behind in Berlin. Firstly, the gates of Palestine were closed and they had nowhere to go. Secondly, many honestly thought that such a thing could happen. Again, assuming that you are right and that the situation of Anglo-Jewry is, “just like Berlin in 1936” what can their justification be for staying?

    “Jews who are British nationals have no business fighting for the future of their country, Britain. What a disgusting position to take.”

    Yes, but disgusting or delightful, that is exactly my position. The dwindling community of aging, assimilating, apathetic Jews still left in the UK have absolutely nothing to contribute to the fight for the future of Britain. A tribe of dentists, estate agents and chartered accountants won’t suddenly find the strength or the courage to “fight for the future of their country”. You know that, I know that.

    And even if they do turn out to demonstrate with real Englishmen against radical Islam, what will be their banner? Shall they hoist the Union Jack and or the flag of Israel? It hardly matters. As soon as they are identified as Jews it will be assumed, and not without reason, that their real motivations for being there are to defend the State of Israel.

    By the way, if we’re talking about, “Jews who are British nationals…. fighting for the future of their country” exactly how patriotic are Anglo-Jews? How many of them are there fighting under the queens colours in Afghanistan or anywhere else at the moment? Don’t worry Leah, that last question was rhetorical.

    • I think you are missing a lot here, Daniel. In 1936, not having had such a precedent to refer to, German Jews, quite understandably, could not believe that their countrymen could sink so low. By contrast, here in London (and having the Jewish experience in the Holocaust to draw on), for many of us it is in the forefront of our minds after the AHAVA incident.

      “The dwindling community of aging, (sic) assimilating, apathetic Jews still left in the UK have absolutely nothing to contribute to the fight for the future of Britain.” is an absurd generalisation and the two situations do not map onto each other exactly. Most of the people heavily involved in hasbara are young university students who are also fighting Islamisation here.

      “… As soon as they are identified as Jews it will be assumed, and not without reason, that their real motivations for being there are to defend the State of Israel….” And you know this how exactly? I went to Yom Atzmaut celebrations along with many other English Jews carrying both flags. No-one passing by batted an eyelid, and several of them asked us questions and were interested.

      I think you have too much of a tendency to be carried away by your own rhetoric.

      • Well said, including and especially that last sentence.
        I am neither ageing, nor a dentist or accountant etc, nor apathetic, nor assimilating, and I am hardly the only one who is none of those things. And it’s highly offensive to say that I (and others) “have absolutely nothing to contribute to the fight for the future of Britain”. I believe I (and others) most certainly do. Once again, what we get from Daniel is smug and oily self-righteousness.
        Oh, and that nonsense about Afghanistan is just that: nonsense. Very few people do or indeed can serve in the UK’s combat units, whether Jews or not .

    • Sharon Klaff

      Daniel
      Whilst it might be an ideal for every Jew in the world to make Aliya this is impractical and absurd. Just because Jews live in the Diaspora does not mean they are aged, infirm or otherwise any less of Jews than you are. And, just because they are Jews does not make them any less worthy citizens of the country many were born in. And just because they are Jews in the Diaspora doesn’t make them any less interested in preserving Western Civilisation. On the contrary, my experience of many Jews living in Israel is that they have their heads in the sand, enjoying their idyll, totally unaware of the dangers that lurk around this very small global society we are all a part of, yes even you over there in Israel thinking life is hunky dory because you live in Eretz Yisrael and that if all we Jews came to enjoy the Dead Sea with you Israel would somehow be immune to world events.

    • “I’m not certain I agree that London of 2011 is “just like Berlin in 1936””

      Kindly don’t distort my words to score cheap debating points. I didn’t say those words that you are attributing to me. I didn’t say that LONDON is just like Berlin. I was referring specifically to the mobbing and boycotting of shops by antisemitic hooligans.

  30. Daniel Marks

    Hi Babs,

    Look, we’re on the same side. For months I’ve been asking everyone why more Anglo-Jews can’t be persuaded to come to the pro-Ahava demonstrations. I have suggested approaching synagogues, youth movements, community centers, etc. Richard assured me, and I believe him, that this is impossible. I asked Jonathan Hoffman why he goes, albeit heroically, almost alone to try and take on whole rooms full of anti-Semites. He told me, and I believe him, that this is impossible too.

    It breaks my heart to say it, but you guys just don’t have the soldiers.
    Maybe you can organize a campus Purim party or a singles shabbat, but if you’re going to confront the violent forces of radical Islam it will take more than what you’ve got. If I you were to wish to call up all your forces now and have them demonstrate tomorrow evening in Covent Gardens, how many men/women could you mobilize? That’s not a rhetorical question. Neither would you, of course, cooperate with the EDL because they aren’t nice.

    You ask me “And you know this how exactly?” (sic). I know it because I’ve been there. I know the frustration of trying to mobilize Anglo-Jewry, and when I was doing it there were more of them, they were less aging, less assimilating and probably less apathetic. And we won.

    However, the demonstrations I was involved in, for the release of Soviet Jewry, was child’s play in comparison with what you’re up against. Firstly, there was no hostile Soviet community living in the UK up against us. You have the whole radical Islamic community to contend with and they’re not aging, assimilating or apathetic. They can mobilize as many as they want wherever they want. And you’ll be standing there with Leah and your two flags.

    I’m touched by your naïveté in imagining that your “heavily involved…hasbara…young university students” are any match for the forces of radical Islam. I’m also hoping and speculating that your forte might more in the area of telling people not to “generalize”, than serious activism. If you are in earnest, I do hope that nobody get hurts before you grow up.

    • You may be on the same side Daniel, but you’re patronising your fellows.

    • Sharon Klaff

      How patronsing can a person be!!

    • My naivete! Hello, pot!

      And I suppose that not fronting up to Islamism at all, and running away from it instead is the best course of action? You really aren’t capable of apprehending any other viewpoint than your own, are you?

      You really cannot know what I, for one, is doing to undermine the influence of radical Islam and yet, stupidly, you continue to generalise.

      How old ARE you?

      • Daniel Marks

        I am almost 50, Babs and this old man is beginning to understand something about the state of hasbara in the UK. What is this nonsense about launching into personal attacks every time your case is weak? Is that what you do when you’re up against the evil Islamic radical forces of darkness? Do you call them silly names.

        Regarding my “not fronting up to Islamism at all, and running away from it..” I guess you’ve seen right through me. At the age of 18 my “running away from Islamism” caused me to leave Edgware, to move to the Middle East and join the IDF – guess I’m a pretty lousy runner awayer. I have lived for 27 years in a Judean settlement surrounded by “Islamism” Amichai and Dina both fought it in the Infantry and military intelligence respectively and Rachelle joins next year. Yup, I have a lot of running away to be ashamed of and I certainly take off my hat to heroes like you, toughing it out in NW London for reasons of altruism.

        Since you dealt with none of my points substantively there is nothing much to answer other than to say the obvious – that apprehension is not my difficulty. On the contrary Babs, my problem is that I understand you oh too well.

        Shavua tov from Israel

  31. Daniel Marks

    Golly, I certainly didn’t see that one coming, Sharon.

    You may be right, after all, about us “… living in Israel….heads in the sand, enjoying their idyll, totally unaware of the dangers that lurk..”

    Leah, Babs, Sharon

    Have a great week!

  32. I think Daniel has some very good points, although within the Muslim community I do not see enemies everywhere. Daniel is right in that this community is large enough and growing enough that they can and HAVE factually mobilised thousands of people for marches at the drop of a hat.

    I’ve spent the weekend in Birmingham. Been to a lovely Synagogue, friendly people great service. Another Shul a stones throw away. Went to meet a friend afterwards, passed a Kosher shop and came across another Synagogue (Pershore Road). There’s also a local Jewish School with a capacity of 250. Three Shuls within 15 minutes walk, a shop and a deli and a school down the road (and allegedly a community centre), you don’t feel a Jewish presence anywhere here. 35% of the children in the school are Jewish and 50% Muslim. The children all learn Hebrew, all say Jewish prayers and all discuss Israel. Muslim parents even move into the area to get their children into this Jewish school, something which I believe a lot of Jewish parents wouldn’t do. There must have been about 20-30 children at the service I went to. Three Synagogues and a Jewish population of over 3000 in Birmingham, I would have thought that a 60% majority would have been attainable at a school. But it isn’t.

    The plus point is, is that there are children from what would seem a hostile faith learning about Judaism, learning Hebrew and befriending children of other religions. But on the other side of the coin it does show a community in decline, that is assimilating, that is ageing, that is becoming apathetic. Even in my London Synagogue which is one of the bigger ones, there are very few participants under 35 on Shabat. There are 3x membership than seats, yet it was just under a third full on my last visit.

    By driving Jewish business out of London and making people think more about emigrating to Israel will in the end only defeat the Boycott/PSC whatever movements as they will end up having nothing to protest and the Arabs will have to accept more Jewish people in the Middle East which will defeat the goal of a Palestinian state.

    I applaud the efforts of people like Sharon, but by joining these protests, it does nothing to help. The best way to help is to buy the goods, make strong Jewish families and to support Israel. If the British are willing to let their country fall to ruin then let them. Just don’t let Israel do the same!

  33. Michael Goldman

    I find myself in total agreement with some of the comments made against Dan.
    1. He is very patronosing.
    2. He’s a terrible runner (While this was not said directly it was certainly inferred)
    In all other respects I find myself in total agreement with my once lanky friend.
    In fact I have been reading this blog with interest for many a month as its author gives us all day by day accounts of the Ahava saga and have in the main kept quiet mainly because I don’t wish to insult or sound patronising or in any way belittle the little you all seem to be clinging to.
    Britain is not your home!!
    It could and will turn against you at the drop of a hat.
    Ahava is not important but its obvious lesson is.
    They don’t want you around.
    I don’t care if its the Christians the Muslims the “do gooders” worrying about the poor Arabs living in Judea and Sameria.
    It doesn’t matter.
    They don’t much like the fact that Jews are so successful and If Israel in any way gives them an excuse to hate you under the guise of caring for others then all the better.
    They will get you as they did in Germany as they did in Spain as they have in almost every place on Earth Jews have inhabited.
    You have all been explaining why the demonstations against Israel are just excuses for antisemitism.
    If that is the case and it almost always is,what’s their next step…? And there will be a next step.
    Yep
    Keep the lies going.Keep telling yourselves that it’s gonna be alright, that England is your country and you will fight for it’s democracy.
    Sorry guys you don’t stand a chance and even if you did what are you fighting for ? The right to live in a place that doesn’t want you!?

  34. I agree with Michael Goldman. And Britain is a very fragile country at the moment. 3 years ago I was sat in a friends flat where we dissected the possibly that the UK, especially the South East and London would fall victim to some terrible catastrophe or upheavel. The signs have been around for years. With all the socio-economic decline in the UK trouble is brewing beneath the surface.

    I have to say to Michael and Daniel; people won’t listen until it’s too late!

  35. Also- if there was ever a warning sign, then lets not forget this guy;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Halimi

    HORRIFIC!

  36. Daniel Marks

    Wow! That was fascinating posting by Steven. A Jewish school with 35% Jewish kids and 50% Moslems, the mind boggles – at least mine does.

    Actually I don’t see Muslim enemies everywhere either. I’m certain that the majority, perhaps overwhelming majority, just want a quiet life and what is best for their kids. The problem is always that a small minority can cause a lot of damage, especially if the majority, who just want a quiet life, don’t stand up to them.

    As someone who was grew up in the UK, I too am extremely concerned about the future of the Jewish community there. I was brought up four decades ago to believe that there were half a million Jews in Britain and woke up one day shocked to discover that this number is now about 270,000. I can’t help but wonder where 230,000 Jews disappeared.

    24% of Anglo Jews are over the age of 65 as opposed to 14% of the general population and there are more Jewish deaths than births annually. A few years ago your chief rabbi Sacks famously said, “Europe is dying because its citizens are too selfish to have children.” He forgot to mention that his own flock are the most “selfish” of all. Doubtlessly, Babs should tell him not to generalize.

    Looking ahead a generation the only hope are the haredi community whose babies constitute 75% of the Anglo-Jewish infant population. At the risk of vexing Babs with further generalizations, non-haredi Anglo Jews marry late, intermarry at a rate of 30-50% and with their minus growth rate, if you a young Jew and aren’t dressed in black, the chances of there being anyone there to say kaddish for you when you go or of him finding a weekday quorum to answer “Amen..” is not good. Maybe some of those Hebrew-speaking Birmingham born Muslims will be able to help out with the minyan!?

    Michael Goldman may be right about the anti-Semites coming to get them, but if the truth be told they really don’t need to make the effort. Why bother to kill a community that to paraphrase Jonathan Sacks is “dying because it is too selfish to have children”?

    This is a posting of hope not of pessimism. As G-d closes one door he opens a window. I say to Leah, Sharon and Babs and whoever else will listen, to come home! Call me patronising or whatever you like, but I love you all because you are my brothers and sisters. For 2,000 years our ancestors prayed together, dreaming of one day returning to Zion in mercy. My grandfather once told me what his father had once whispered to a young boy late on one Friday night when it was dark, when nobody else could hear, “Imagine, if one day we had a state of our own. Imagine, if one day we had our own Jewish army to defend us.”

    • Sharon Klaff

      Don’t you know this is how they infiltrate – once the school has majority Muslims it will become a Mulsim school and teach under Sahria law – wake up guys – this is not about Jews or Israel but about what kind of life we will live under Sharia law – and yes you too in Israel.

  37. Not so much patronising (well, OK, obviously horrendously patronising) as unbelieveably smug, self-satisfied, self-righteous, oleaginous. I don’t want you to “love” me. Who on earth do you think you are?
    Moreover, you don’t live in the UK. You are in no position to sermonise about what is happening here.

  38. Michael Goldman

    He’s all that and he also has a terrible singing voice and he’s not much of a driver… I could go on.
    Leah
    You are the one who compared your situation to Berlin 1936.
    Do you really think that if the Jews had tried to fight the the Nazis a little bit harder it would have helped them ?
    Do you really think that an email campaign would have stopped the Nazi war machine? (Yeah I know there wasn’t email )
    Ever read “Alone in Berlin”?
    I don’t wish to upset the autor of this fine blog or the rest of you “activists” but your activities are a little pathetic.
    Do you really think that a few Jews standing outside Ahava will have any effect on the antisemitism which is swarming over Europe or on the millions of Muslims who are taking over your schools?!
    The funny (sad) thing is that’s the best you’ve got!

    The Jews in Europe had nowhere to go.
    Whats your excuse for bringing up your children in a Jew hating society?

    • “You are the one who compared your situation to Berlin 1936”

      And again, like Daniel, you are putting words in my mouth, aka distorting completely what I said. Or is it a reading comprehension issue?
      I did NOT compare ‘my’ situation to Berlin 1936. I mentioned specifically the boycotting of shops.

      Daniel then denied that there is a problem.

      Then some posts later, he’s suddenly decided that not only is there a problem, but that it’s not him who is hiding his head in the sand, which is exactly what he was doing to begin with, but me (and Babs etc) because we don’t realise that it’s just like Berlin 1936 and we must escape with not a second to lose because otherwise our lives will be in danger.

      The whole thing is just an exercise in scoring cheap debating points (by you and Daniel), by distorting what people actually say.

  39. Sharon Leah and Babs,

    I also do not live in England. But many moons ago I did.

    My father was the youngest of ten children born in 1923 to a patriotic British family with an unswerving Jewish identity.

    As a young man before the war in London’s East-End, he was a regular militant confronting Mosley’s Blackshirts, the euphemistic pre-war Ahava protestors – or perhaps based on modern-day EDL support, the Union of British Fascists would have been Ahava’s staunchest supporters. It all depends on your perspective.

    Dad took credit for the legendary stone that hit Jeffery Hamm’s forehead peering out of his armored car. Although I believe it was Big Sid Grulnick, who later dated Ava Gardner, who actually threw the ominous stone that hit Mosley’s personal secretary.

    While my family on my mother’s side, was being slaughtered in Auschwitz, my father served in His Majesty’s forces and saw his best friend Lionel Freedman lose his life on his first RAF mission while Arthur Newman was almost unbelievably shot down twice by German anti-aircraft fire and lived to tell the tale.

    My father wore his military medals with pride, and I remember how in later years, we would never miss a single commemorative annual march through Whitehall with other Jewish veterans on that cold Sunday, every November. It is a most incredible, unnerving and seldom-quoted statistic, that veterans marching on Jewish commemorative Sunday would always outnumber their gentile brother-in-arms, on their march, which was always staged the Sunday after.

    As the thousands of veterans marching under the banner of their dwindling respective communities, would come to a halt by the Cenotaph, we would all salute the quivering Union Jack to the eerie music of Elgar’s Nimrod from his Enigma Variations.

    I was a mere young onlooker standing in the freezing cold, whose youthful innocence had me entreat my mother “I want to go home.”

    I remain in contact with all the family of my father’s nine older siblings and I shed a veritable tear when I hold out a hand and count how few Jews are left from this once proud Anglo-Jewish family.

    Perhaps I too am being smug and unctuous, and I should not generalize, since I live in Israel, and am in no position to sermonize about what is happening in the UK.

    I have to admit to having made some terrible decisions in my life. But coming home was one of my better ones.

  40. Just look at this what happened recently;
    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/46817/pro-israel-protester-attacked-soas

    I also remember back to there being I believe TWO murders in the Clapton/Stoke Newington area of North East London back in 2006-2007, maybe around the time of the Lebanon war. These hasidic men were murdered for being Jewish. Other than a mention in the local newspaper, this was barely reported anywhere. The Stephen Lawrence murder has only really faded from the media in the last year and a half and that was in 1994. Why are other type’s of racist murders ignored?

    What did the BBC have to report about Ilan Halimi or the Fogel family (whose baby was beheaded)? Why do the BDS, PSC ignore all of this? The rally against the war in Gaza in London was factually documented as containing a fair bit of racism and homophobia with crys of ‘kaffir’ and ‘faggot’ at the police and a fair bit of aggression with cones being thrown and shops being looted and damaged.

    Something very wrong is happening in the UK. The great British spirit that seen people fight facism in the East End, women protest on Greenham common, the spirit that defined the biker movement and the music has all been evaporated.

    Johnathan Sacks is right. And his observations match with my observations in the Synagogue regarding age and participation. The people are out there, often in abundance, but they are not participating. Between Birmingham’s three Synagogue’s and Solihull’s (3 orthodox, 1 liberal) and Coventry (small liberal community) as well as those that live out in Cheltenham/Gloucestershire and Herefordshire, parents could fill that 250 capacity school.

    But then it’s not for us to dictate to people what they should do with their lives. If this is what an individual chooses then we have to accept it.

    Now we are talking about Israel as a safe nation state and about the attacks on Jews by religious extremists the pro-Palestine brigade go all quiet. They are actively working to build a society that will eventually do away with them as well.

    • ‘I also remember back to there being I believe TWO murders in the Clapton/Stoke Newington area of North East London back in 2006-2007, maybe around the time of the Lebanon war. These hasidic men were murdered for being Jewish.’

      Do you have link for that, Stephen?

      • Like I said Zkharya, the incident was barely reported outside of the local newspaper in Hackney, possibly the free one. However, I am going to look it up and get the details so you can let your friends know about it.

        Here is an article from the Daily Mail about anti-semitic incidents from about the same time;
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-433030/Wave-hatred-warning-attacks-Jews-hits-record-high.html

        Here is an article from the Jewish Chronicle about a Rabbi who had his finger bitten off in Vienna on Hannukah;
        http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/25021/rabbis-finger-bitten-chanucah-celebration

        Stabbed for being Jewish by an Algerian immigrant (Stamford Hill);
        http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-5293217.html

        And if you google ‘jew, stabbed, paris suburbs’ you get absolutely tons of articles on stabbings and attacks on Jews all over France! Absolutely horrendous. Ilan Halimi’s torture and murder was not an isolated case.

        Not to forget the Jewish man attacked with an iron bar in Luxembour either last year or the year before. And then there is the endless flow of incidents in Amsterdam, Belgium and Sweden!!! Feast your eyes on that lot Zkharya and also read the article I linked elsewhere where the Jewish lady states she visited pro-Palestine demonstrations in the UK and she found flags with Nazi swastika’s on display.

        In the meantime I will get the details of the Stamford Hill murders that you probably don’t believe happened because your beloved BBC and Channel 4 turned a blind eye to them.

  41. Daniel Marks

    Hi Leah,

    Loving you and other Jewish people is not my choice. It is a commandment, like keeping the Sabbath or not eating certain “impure” foods (Leviticus 19:18) don’t take it personally. It’s interesting that it says “.., but you shall love your neighbor as (you love) yourself: I am the LORD.” I guess the final bit is to remind us that we are doing it because we are told to, even if our neighbors don’t always make the commandment easy to keep.

    It is exactly that love which causes people like Michael, Nick and I to worry desperately about the exiled Jews of the UK and your future. It’s not only because we were born and lived there for many years. It’s not only because many of us have family and friends who have still not been privileged to return home, it’s first and foremost because we love you and care.

    You write:

    “Moreover, you don’t live in the UK. You are in no position to sermonise about what is happening here.”

    But this is absurd. Am I not entitled to express an opinion as to what another Jewish community should or should not be doing because I don’t live there? This whole blog is about Jews from the exile expressing their opinions about what Israel. Some are well informed and some don’t have a clue. Are they also “in no position to sermonise”? Are you?

    You may argue that the facts I cite are inaccurate or that my interpretation of them is imbalanced or prejudiced. You might claim that my conclusions are unrealistic, impractical or even that they would cause more harm than good. However, to just ignore it all and bury your head in the sand and avoid dealing with the whole issue because we “don’t live” there – is that rational? Steven seems to have similar views to us and to the best of my knowledge he does “live” there. If you won’t listen to me, at least listen to him.

    It’s always been a source of wonder to me how many exiled Jews are so concerned about current events when they affect Israel, but so nonchalant regarding the future of their own communities. I understand that it’s much more cool and “sexy” to talk about F16s and Two-State Solutions than to worry about the state of Jewish education in Birmingham, the birthrate of Brighton or caring for the elderly of Edinburgh, but if you’ve chosen to make the UK your home, it is the latter issues that will determine your future. Whichever way the next SOAS vote goes and whether or not Ahava reopens the State of Israel will (please G-d) continue to grow and flourish. Were that I could say the same of the community where I was born.

    Finally, Leah, a final word about condescension. I suspect that unable to substantively handle what another commentator says, your default response is to call him/her an Anti-Semite. However, and as it was inappropriate to label me such it is easier to say that I’m condescending, that you might once again steer clear of relating to content. Neither am I denying that are many commentators on this blog are Jew-haters, or that my writing style is indeed sometimes patronizing.

    But Leah this is not a blind date on the Finchley Road. It is an existential debate as to the future of Anglo-Jewry. To be or not to be – no more, no less. If I am right, then will you sacrifice your own future and that of your children because you don’t appreciate my writing style? If I’m wrong, what does it matter if I’m patronizing, self-effacing, both or neither?

    • “I suspect that unable to substantively handle what another commentator says, your default response is to call him/her an Anti-Semite”

      This is just unutterably silly. I call people antisemites when they walk and talk like antisemites. If you can’t see that, you really do need to have your eyes checked.

      I (and not just I) call you smug and condescending, because you are. You proclaim, self-importantly, that you ‘love’ me. I don’t share your literalist interpretation of the scriptures, but to you that is of no importance because YOU and YOUR position are the only things that determine the nature of the discourse. If it’s offensive to me, so what?

      Telling us in great detail the names of your children and their exact activities (have you asked their permission, I wonder?) is another example of your smugness and self-importance.

  42. I flound this interesting article from the Independent five years ago, which is far better than a lot of reporting on the subject;
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/what-british-jews-think-of-israel-408400.html

    Interesting to note how some of the UK Jewish peace activists went to pro-Palestine campaigns and what they had to confront! The bit about the flags with Swastika’s says it all really. And this is the UK left wing remember.

  43. Daniel Marks

    Look Leah, this loving you thing seems to have gone to your head a bit, as you desperately read and reread old postings in search of incriminating evidence. Yes, I am one of those wicked Jewish parents who reveal their children’s names, ages and the IDF units in which they served. Their consent forms have been mailed to you off-blog. However, we seem to have mysteriously strayed from the point. It’s so strange how that keeps happening.

    Michael is believes the Anglo-Jewish community may be in imminent physical peril. I respect his opinion, but believe that what you British Jews are doing to yourselves is far more treacherous than what any Neo-Nazi or Islamic fundamentalist might. One and a half thousand Jews are lost every year to Anglo-Jewry through assimilation, intermarriage and low birth rates. That is more than the number of Jewish people that have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism the world over, since September 2000!

    If you believe that all is well and good and that our worries are without foundation say so. I don’t know you, but I suspect that you agree with much that Steven, Nick, Michael and I have said and for that reason prefer to focus the discussion on personal trifles, rather than to address to issue under discussion. If it helps this conversation to progress, I will merrily concede all the things you’ve said about me being condescending, smug, self-important, whatever you like.

    Now it’s your turn Leah. How are you going to save Anglo-Jewry?

  44. Daniel Marks

    My problem is that I can’t really comprehend the strategy of those British Jews planning to halt the ascent of radical Islam.

    Comparisons have been made on this excellent blog, to the Jews fighting against Mosley and his black shirts many years ago, but the analogy is, in my opinion, erroneous for any number of reasons. It must be remembered that when Mosley planned to march through the largely Jewish East End, his 2,000-3,000 marchers were met by an estimated 300,000 anti-fascist (mainly Jews and Communists). Although he was famously stopped on that day in 1936, the actual street fighting was almost exclusively between the anti-fascists and the 10,000 or so police. As I wrote in an early post these men were tough street-fighters, many dock workers and barrow boys and there were very few barristers or chartered accountants were among them. It’s also important to state that what finally put Mosley out of business was World War Two and internment. By 1945 fascism was well out of fashion.

    Today there are no natural allies for the Jewish activist, as the Left are squarely in the other camp, while the extreme Right have tattoos, and aren’t nice.

    Islamization can either be stopped in the church at the ballot boxes or in the street. The first option of strengthening Christian values, as is happening in many parts of the US, is hardly an area where most Jews excel. The second boils down to demographics and it seems unlikely that many young Jewish ladies getting married in the UK will eagerly agree to have their wombs recruited for active service in the battle to prevent the spread of Islam.

    So, once again we return to the streets. I am no street-fighter, but even I know that one needs many tough committed men, who are prepared to get hurt and from time to time to be arrested too. They also have to be unswerving in their dedication to the cause and prepared to turn up when told to, midweek, even if they have an exam or their cousin’s bar mitzvah the next day.

    Furthermore, I disagree strongly with the tactic of half a dozen activists turning up to call the other guys anti-Semites, and then when the going gets tough of calling in the local police to do their work for them. This makes them look ridiculous and unless things have changed dramatically in recent years, the British police themselves aren’t all members of the Zionist Federation either.

    For all these reason I suggest that without the popular support of the British masses this struggle is pretty doomed before it even gets going, and in this case I’d leave it to the radical Muslims themselves to wake up the Churchilain spirit of Britannia. I boldly predict that on the fateful day when the first real Englishman is told that Sharia requires his local to stop selling alcohol, he’ll be building barricades and chucking Molotovs, without any help from his beloved anglo-Jewish brethren.

    I’d be interested in hearing a substantive response to my analysis, as opposed to once again being told that I’m very patronizing, which I already know.

    • @daniel “My problem is that I can’t really comprehend the strategy of those British Jews planning to halt the ascent of radical Islam.”

      Why, then, are you so quick to judge us and so tactless when you do so? (Asked and answered – judgmentalism is highly correlated with lack of tact).

      And you are repeating yourself.

    • Daniel
      I have been off-line for a week due to some inexplicable technical hitch, so I may not have read all of it yet – but for this (very refreshing) one only one remark:

      I very much doubt that communists were considered “nice” back then i.e. any nicer than the tattoo-ed ones are these days. Of course I know nothing about moods in England at the time but I keep getting told from all kinds of sources that part of Hitler’s/the Nazis’ success was owed to their raising the communist threat scare.

  45. Daniel Marks

    At the risk of repeating myself, I’d be interested in hearing a substantive response to my analysis, Babs.

  46. Michael Goldman

    Babs
    It is true.
    Daniel is no paragon of tact.
    But do you really think that Daniel’s lack of tact is the main problem facing British Jewry?
    Is ” judgmentalism is highly correlated with lack of tact.” really the best you can do?

    • No, but frankly I am bored with Daniel’s blethering. The main problem facing British Jewry is that it lacks a body to look after its interests which are representative of all Jews and has the ear of government.
      The BoD are windbags who are fond of power and richly deserve the epithet levelled at them by Abba Eban, “The Order of the Trembling Israelites” who do simply that and are terrified of rocking the boat.

      It’s about time that boat got rocked.

  47. Sharon Klaff

    Richard – don’t you have a new blog to post – this discussion is getting personal and very boring. How the OT & NT? Now that would make interesting reading!

  48. Daniel Marks

    How would this new body solve the problems of assimilation, intermarriage, a low birth rate and apathy?

  49. Michael Goldman

    Babs
    If you’re bored with the discussion then start another one.
    In the same way, if you have no faith in the BoD then create a new body that will ” look after Jews interests and is representative of all Jews and has the ear of government”.
    And if you still have time, then after tea do Daniel a favour and ” solve the problems of assimilation, intermarriage, a low birth rate and apathy”
    Look Babs there is really no reason to get upset.
    All we’re saying is that Anglo Jewry is a dead horse.
    If the Anti semites don’t get them then their own apathy to anything jewish certainly will.

  50. Pingback: William Hague’s nasty Chatham House speech on Israel. | RichardMillett's Blog