Miliband E.: A disaster for Britain, a disaster for Israel.

New Labour leader, Ed Miliband (middle).

New Labour leader, Ed Miliband (middle).

Ed Miliband’s (EM) election as leader of the Labour party while in opposition to the Conservative-Lib. Dem. coalition is a disaster on many fronts.

It wasn’t meant to be like this. His warmer, more charismatic brother, David (DM), was supposed to win.

The coalition is loving the result. It will be easy to paint the new leader as Red Ed and as in thrall to the unions who, in effect, made him leader.

EM does not have the support of either the majority of ordinary Labour members or of Labour MEPs and MPs under the arcane tripartite electoral system that Labour uses.

It was the three main trade unions; GMB, Unite and Unison, that won it for EM. Although it was a free vote the leaders of these three huge unions publicly backed EM and that was enough.

The trade unions favour the working class but their problem is that they would rather the country got poorer as long as everyone was more equal. They give no credence to capitalism whatsoever.

A form of communism-lite is still their preferred way forward. Being in government is not of great importance as long as they can go on strike and bring the country to its knees. Margaret Thatcher recognised the damage they can do. She smashed them but they are back with a vengeance.

Labour is also in financial trouble and multi-millionaire backers like Lord Sainsbury and Lord Alli could be set to lower their donations leaving Labour looking for even more support from the unions.

Labour has emasculated itself by voting for EM giving the governing coalition five years of an open goal with which to do as it pleases unchallenged. This is not good for us.

We will have to put up with five years of uncompetitive politics.

DM’s campaign must have suffered from complacency. But he showed his sharpness, warmth and humour yesterday when trying to evade a media scrum.

“Please ladies and gentleman, I am leaving,” he complained to which a reporter asked “Are you really leaving, Mr Miliband?”. DM turned around with the broadest of grins and replied: “I’m leaving the building”.

If DM does leave British politics for another job he will be missed. His brother is dull and uncharismatic by comparison.

More than that his brother has been an MP for just five years to DM’s nine and his only major brief was as Climate Change secretary. In contrast DM was Foreign Secretary and has striven the world stage gaining respect and experience. I doubt few overseas politicians would know EM.

And being in thrall to the unions does not bode well for Israel either. We know that many unions are ignorant of the true complexity of the Israeli-Palestinians conflict but their knee-jerk reaction is to be anti-Israel. Recently they voted to continue a boycott of Israeli settlement goods at the TUC conference.

This demonisation of the settlements and the settlers (both of which are perfectly legal) doesn’t help anyone. It entrenches the Palestinian position and leads to more dead settlers as we saw recently with the killing of four innocent Israelis near Hebron.

But thank goodness for small mercies as a full boycott of Israel was expected. Next year maybe.

In addition to communism-lite at home the Israeli-Palestinian conflict also gives the trade unions the chance to play Trotsky/Lenin abroad. Due to increasing cooperation with the Palestine Soldiarity Campaign a one state solution, where the Jewish state would disappear, is becoming the default position of many union members.

It is hard to see EM opposing any of this knee-jerk trade union anti-Israelism whereas DM, being a Blairite, would have been more open to persuasion and more independent.

None of this takes into account the background of the Milibands, whose late father, Ralph, was a Marxist academic and whose mother Marion Kozak is a leading member of the anti-Israel Jews for Justice for Palestinians (anti-Israel in the sense that they prefer that one-state solution).

With David “Gaza is a prison camp” Cameron, William “Israel acted dispoportionately” Hague and Nick “Ban arms sales to Israel” Clegg in the three most important positions of PM, Foreign Secretary and Deputy PM respectively and Ed Miliband as opposition leader and David Miliband, currently as shadow Foreign Secretary, things don’t bode well over the next five years for Israel.

It was DM who, while Foreign Secretary, took the decision to expel an Israeli diplomat from Britain over the assassination of a self-confessed Hamas terrorist in Dubai, without the allegation being proved, but he seems to be far more preferable to his brother for both Britain and Israel.

EM could surprise us and prove to that he isn’t in hock to the unions. We need a strong opposition. I hope to be proved wrong, but I am not hopeful.

And I hate to criticise a Leeds United supporter.

About these ads

103 responses to “Miliband E.: A disaster for Britain, a disaster for Israel.

  1. Jonathan Hoffman

    But if electing Ed in turn makes Labour less electable, how is it a “disaster” for either the UK or Israel?

  2. richardmillett

    do you really prefer one party politics? We need a strong opposition.

  3. “The trade unions favour the working class but their problem is that they would rather the country got poorer as long as everyone was more equal. They give no credence to capitalism whatsoever.

    A form of progressive communism is still their preferred way forward. Being in government is not of great importance as long as they can go on strike and bring the country to its knees. Margaret Thatcher recognised the damage they can do. She smashed them but they are back with a vengeance.”

    Please, Richard, this is political illiteracy.

    It is similar to saying that “Conservatives would prefer a military dictatorship.”

    The trade unions in Britain are conspicuously moderate, their leaders are conspicuously moderate, there is NO tangible evidence that they want to have anything to do with any form of “progressive communism” (Whatever that would be).

    With the exception of about one or two trade union leaders, most of them are to the right of Jim Callaghan (if anyone remembers him).

    So to portray trade unions in this way is bordering on hysterical, and unworthy of you, Richard.

  4. Let’s separate the consequences of EM for Britain and for Israel. The appointment of Ed via union votes is indeed bad news for Labour (he won’t challenge the party in the way that TB did), a godsend for Cameron and a disaster for British democracy. I am inclined to agree with modernity blog that unions in Britain don’t support ‘progressive communism’ – kindly explain what on earth this is – a political oxymoron surely.

    However, it is not clear whether the appointment of DM, as opposed to EM, would have made that much difference to the British debate on Israel. As you yourself point out, DM supported the expulsion of a British diplomat after the Dubai assassination. It is likely that both DM and EM will pay lip service to the usual mantras (‘settlements are an obstacle to peace’, ‘the occupation is the cause of conflict’ etc.) while saying that they believe in a ‘secure Israel and an independent Palestine.’ In any case, Ed’s focus is likely to be on domestic issues and his voice on foreign affairs will be of diminishing value.

    True, of the two of them, DM had much more ‘weight’ internationally, given his experience as foreign secretary, but his failure to win the leadership only matters if what he was saying on Israel was overwhelmingly positive – was it?

    http://www.jeremyhavardi.com

  5. A form of progressive communism is still their preferred way forward.

    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHHHAHHAHHAHHHAHHAHHHHAHAHHHAHH…

    Shit, I just pissed myself laughing…

    It really shows where politically you stand (an inch to the right of the EDL) to call Ed a ‘progressive communist’. You’re priceless and this post has really cheered me up no end. Apart from the pissy pants, that is…

    And hell must have frozen over: I find myself in agreement with Modernity Blog…

    • richardmillett

      I changed it to communism-lite, Gert, but did i really call Ed that originally? I was referring to trade unions, not Ed.

  6. in about 1974 part of an American company located in Paris was supposed to relocate to the UK – language, transport, the whole bag of reasons – they fought it tooth and nail and the manager told me it was due to Unions having so much of a say – they got their way and were relocated to Germany – language, you gotta be kidding, transport OK, rules and regulations a nightmare, but Unions accommodating.

    Other than that it seems that capitalism overdid it recently just a wee bit – but beware only for readers – 10 instalments!
    sound competition of isms and parties is my favourite
    http://www.slate.com/id/2267157/

  7. ooops forgot to subscribe

  8. Where’s my comment???

  9. Richard has just written a predictable outpouring of Tory propaganda .

    David Miliband is not a warmer candidate than his brother . I attended the Labour Party hustings in Oxford & I sat 20 feet away from DM – I watched him really closely & I have rarely seen such a smug arrogant politician .

    David Miliband has consistently made statements criticising Israel ( in My opinion without providing an adequate balancing account of Israel’s case )

    The Trade Union Movement is Democracy in the workplace & We should be standing in Solidarity with The Democratic State Of Israel . Trade Union Friends Of Israel work to combat Anti-Israel prejudice within The Unions & to promote dialogue between Israeli & Palestinian Trade Unionists . We stand up for the Trade Union values of Justice & Unity to help build Progressive Civil Society in Britain , Palestine & Israel .

    My Union The GMB may have on balance advocated a vote for Ed Miliband but the final decision was with the individual member – contary to the arrogant Tory view that working class people are like sheep & go along with whatever the Trade Union leaders decide – I can assure You that We examine the issues closely & then make our own Democratic decisions .

    I wonder if Richard has any real idea what Thatcher’s so-called Smashing of the Unions actually entailed ? As somebody Who was involved in supporting the Miners & printworkers at Wapping I have physically seen with My own eyes her police thugs Smashing decent working class people over the head with batons & riot shields – this repression was directed at working people in order to break the resistance of the Labour Movement to the Tories dismantling of the social progress that was made in Britain’s Democracy since the second world war .

    But I suppose that We should be grateful that Trade Unionists are no longer Transported to Australia like the Tolpuddle Martyrs were by Richard’s Tory ancestors ( although the Tories had a go at banning Free Trade Unions at GCHQ Cheltenham for 13 years ) .

    Trade Unions are a crucial part of any Nation’s Democracy and We are the people Who have struggled for every freedom & progress throughout Our history – Trade Unions are a wonderful force for good in Sociey & We will go forward to building even better benefits for mankind !

    PS – I didn’t actually vote for Ed – like 36,000 other members Who made similar protest votes – I wrote in JOHN McDONNELL on My ballot papers .

  10. “Shit, I just pissed myself laughing…” – Gert, why are saying shitting and also pissing and not interested things towards the zionistic pigs. We say a bad man pissing is liked the camel spitting!

    I hope you are understood my freind.

    • Fatima Philistina

      Salam Gamil.
      Why this Gertrude man have bladderish and bowels conrolling problem?
      It sounding like your constipated camels but opposite problem, yes?

      They don’t give a s*it and he is full of it, yes?

      He seeming angry, yes?

      I thinking he jealous of this Jew man Richard Millet as his blog popular and get much much commenting but Gertrude get small comment on his bog and he not even look at his own blog stats as no one even reading it his blog so no point.

      He go green with jealous like colour of shrek the fatty man and is hating richard and always try putting him down so is to making himself feeling better and less of failing man that he is, yes?

      From the River to the sea, with my bloody Hijab I cannot see.

      • Camelia Blooming

        Dear Fatima
        please forgive me but I must remind you that even in the 21st century it does not behoof a lady to take notice of anything that happens to or with a man’s apertures.
        Please keep up the high standards our sex has been so rightfully cherished for through the ages.

  11. Ian
    I am convinced that Unions suffered a lot but why don’t you also comment on the fact that in the mid-70s foreign employees of foreign companies hated the idea to be relocated to the UK due to the power of the Unions. Were they all wrong?

  12. Richard:

    “Communism-lite”? You sound like a US Tea Partier. Even Mad Mel wouldn’t be as crass as what you wrote. As crazy perhaps, yes, but not as crass…

    Face it, I wet my pants but you were caught with your pants down…

    What Ian said minus the pro-Israel cackle…

  13. As regards Jeremy Havardi, can’t wait to see what His Pompous A**iness has got to say about all this…

  14. Howdy Gamil
    as it happened I just found from an NYRB-piece about pirates where a meal of camel may be enjoyed:
    in Puntland.
    The restaurant is a small one directly opposite the presidential palace and it serves camel meat together with Spaghetti.
    This just in case you want to plan your next foodie themed vacation around something that really makes your friends jaws drop.

    … and thanks for confirming that camels DO spit – it somehow seems to fit what photographers show us as their preferred facial expression.

    Can camels swim?

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/oct/14/pirates-are-winning/?pagination=false

  15. Richard,

    I am afraid that you seem to have acquired a dose of “Antizionistitus”.

    You will remember it? “Antizionistitus”?

    It is a pathological condition, where the recipient upon hearing a trigger word, normally “Israel”,
    loses all rational capacity to think.

    Sadly, the word “trade unions” is effecting you in a similar fashion:

    Recipients of this and related conditions have a number of overlapping symptoms:

    1)They lose any intellectual coherence;
    2)they become slightly hysterical when the trigger word is mentioned;
    3)they forget any history which often results in the application of kettle logic;
    4)they tend to succumb to the extremes of political hyperbole when a rational argument swings into view.

    Sufferers of “Antizionistitus” and related conditions tend to live in their own bubble, unencumbered by facts or evidence.

    Finally, they employ their own form of terminology which is so detached from reality that it makes communicating with people outside of their bubble next to impossible.

    Medical professionals have suggested that “Antizionistitus” and related conditions are the first sign of the more serious malaise “DailyMailFoamingAtTheMouthitis”, although that is hotly debated.

    Richard, please don’t succumb to your own pet version of “Antizionistitus”, best lay off reading the Daily Mail and too much coffee :)

  16. modernity blog
    why would foreigners (including British expats) refuse to relocate to the UK in the mid 7os and why did they give as their reason Unions

    were they all mad, deluded, inflicted by some …itus?

    that’s just 35 years ago – you guys must know what was the reason for that and after you have told them it may be a lot easier to decide whether any of the old exaggerations threaten to crop up again.

    there must be an explanation why back then both the Netherlands and Germany, countries with ridiculously high regulation, were vastly preferred by the globally mobile crowd of the time over the UK.

  17. somebody else remembering:

    Yes, it was idyllic in the pre-paranoid 1970s, and you may by this stage be wondering what I mean when I say that things are so much better today. Well, there was one thing that we did worry about – and that was the economy.
    This was the era of the three-day week, and the lights going out, and capricious and arbitrary union power being used to bring the country to its knees. It was a decade that culminated in our pathetic national capitulation to the IMF.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8026175/Has-Ed-Miliband-forgotten-the-lessons-we-learnt-together-at-primary-school.html

  18. Can camels swim?

    Yes, for a little bit. They are living in a dessert with out swimming pauls .

    I am thinking too that modernityblog is a zionister. I say he want to be embaresed about him-self.

    All the best,

    Gamil

  19. Yes, unfortunately he’s not as pro-Israel as his brother.

    On a sadder note, it seems like my criticisms of the Ahava/Hoffman/ZF strategy have been vindicated (something which I wish wouldn’t have been the case).

    Having been told by Hoffman to try out his methods, I went to my first Ahava counter-protest this weekend. In all my years I’ve never felt more desperate for Israel. The foolishness of the strategy espoused by Jonathan Hoffman was visible to all. Although our esteemed vice-chair didn’t show up, the EDL contingent, consisting of what looked like 12yr olds and thugs sporting bandanas, were chanting like apes. The Jewish Zionistswere sort of in two minds whether to protest alongside these fascists. Some stayed on the other side of the pavement, others joined in. One Zionist man in particular stood shoulder to shoulder with the EDL. He had an SA accent and a beige jacket. Anyone know of him?

    Anyway, Hoffman and his fellow clueless minions need to seriously rethink strategy if they are to keep the shop open. I saw not a single person enter the shop in what must have been 2 hours.

    And to add to his happy news, there’s a chance that the University of Johannesburg, feeling the pressure from Breyten Bretenbach, are going to sever ties with Ben Gurion University. Well, at least we have the EDL on our side. And Jonathan Hoffman…

  20. Gamil,

    You seem to be a very wise person. How would you like to write a guest posting for our blog about your beliefs?

    http://ruth33.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/what-would-you-do/

    We would promise not to alter anything.

  21. My pompous A**iness! Wow, what an original title. Well, you didn’t have to wait Gert, old chap, you could have looked up my own blog (www.jeremyhavardi.com) for immediate enlightenment on Ed Miliband’s appointment. So my ‘pompous ass’ comments on RM’s blog (can’t resist it!):

    Basically, Richard is mistaken in his assumption that EM (Ed Miliband) is going to be much worse for Israel than DM (David Miliband) would have been; indeed, Richard himself cites the fact that DM supported the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat over Dubai-gate. I wonder if DM supported Op Cast Lead (hmmm). But I would go further and say that the differences between Cameron, Brown and the Milibands when it comes to Israel are more slender than we sometimes imagine.

    Basically, they all pretty much subscribe to the ‘conventional wisdom’ regarding this conflict: 1) Only a 2 state solution guarantees peace 2) The occupation should end and settlements are wrong 3) The Gaza blockade is wrong 4) America should drive the ‘peace process’ with Israel and that nice man Abbas 5) There should be a secure Israel and an independent Palestine 6) Israel is entitled to self defence, though not when it actually defends itself (i.e. Dubai, Gaza 2008-9 etc.)

    There is a bigger difference, I suspect, between the views of the MPs in the different parties. This is why it is worthwhile making the case for Israel being a dependable British ally ‘above’ the heads of the party leaders whose own views on foreign affairs seem to form an amorphous mass of mediocre muddle. Come to think of it, that pretty much describes so much of what passes for political discourse in the halls of Westminster.

    More at http://www.jeremyhavardi.com

  22. My pompous A**iness! Wow, what an original title. Well, you didn’t have to wait Gert, old chap, you could have looked up my own blog (www.jeremyhavardi.com) for immediate enlightenment on Ed Miliband’s appointment. So my ‘pompous ass’ comments on RM’s blog (can’t resist it!):

    Basically, Richard is mistaken in his assumption that EM (Ed Miliband) is going to be much worse for Israel than DM (David Miliband) would have been; indeed, Richard himself cites the fact that DM supported the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat over Dubai-gate. I wonder if DM supported Op Cast Lead (hmmm). But I would go further and say that the differences between Cameron, Brown and the Milibands when it comes to Israel are more slender than we sometimes imagine.

    Basically, they all pretty much subscribe to the ‘conventional wisdom’ regarding this conflict: 1) Only a 2 state solution guarantees peace 2) The occupation should end and settlements are wrong 3) The Gaza blockade is wrong 4) America should drive the ‘peace process’ with Israel and that nice man Abbas 5) There should be a secure Israel and an independent Palestine 6) Israel is entitled to self defence, though not when it actually defends itself (i.e. Dubai, Gaza 2008-9 etc.)

    There is a bigger difference, I suspect, between the views of the MPs in the different parties. This is why it is worthwhile making the case for Israel being a dependable British ally ‘above’ the heads of the party leaders whose own views on foreign affairs seem to form an amorphous mass of mediocre muddle. Come to think of it, that pretty much describes so much of what passes for political discourse in the halls of Westminster.

  23. Camelia Blooming

    Dear Fatima
    please forgive me but I must remind you that even in the 21st century it does not behoof a lady to take notice of anything that happens to or with a man’s apertures.
    Please keep up the high standards our sex has been so rightfully cherished for through the ages.

  24. Suetonius ,

    With regard to AHAVA – all the mainstream Zionist
    Counter-Demonstrators left the Penned area when the large EDL group turned up & continued the Counter-Demonstration outside the hotel .

    The man with the beige jacket is Australian & He is a Christian
    not somebody connected to The Zionist Federation or an organisor of the Counter-Demonstration .

    Unfortunately we cannot impose political dicipline on people Who turn up & don’t understand what the EDL is .

    I bought from the shop as did a number of other people .

  25. Ian (or anybody else)

    It seems to have become a given that the EDL are not worthy of being your allies, nor are Christian fundamentalist or any other pro-Israel non-Jewish group. Is this some kind of Jewish self hatred that says that any goy who supports us must be mad?

    So you guys seem to focus all your efforts on trying to convince the liberals a left-wingers, who are radically anti-Israel/Semitic because the guys who agree with you aren’t good enough.

    I’m just an arm-chair Anglo-Jew as I live in Israel and there are many things that I don’t know, but could you rationally explain to me why you so distance yourself from the EDL? I’ve looked over their site and found nothing anti-Semitic or anti-Israel, isn’t that enough? Do you have to agree with them on every other issue in order to cooperate on this one?

    It seems to me, and I may be wrong, a question of snobbery and your feeling that these guys don’t come from the same places as you and aren’t your type of people. Perhaps, you feel more comfortable with a middle-class anti-Semite than a working class skinhead who’s holding an Israeli flag.

    I’d be pleased to hear clear, documented answers to my question, rather than just the vague generalizations that I’ve heard up until now. Why do you distance yourselves from the EDL?

  26. Jonathan Hoffman

    http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/ed-miliband-red-and-irrelevant

    Miliband and Labour are now irrelevant….. read my blog

  27. Hoping to be answered before chag. Jonathan, Ian, Richard, anyone?

    Question posted at 5:06am.

  28. I am always astonished by otherwise intelligent people on the Right, who can see the gradients when it comes to their part of the spectrum, but suddenly lose all intellectual coherence when something comes from the Left.

    I am still waiting for a cogent explanation as to what “progressive communism” or “communism lite” might be?

    It is a pity that people feel compelled to invent their own terminology, or forget history, as it makes discussing these issues rather difficult due to the fact there is no common ground either linguistically or rationally.

    As I said, it strikes me as the approach taken by “Anti-Zionists”.

  29. Silke: in the mid-70s foreign employees of foreign companies hated the idea to be relocated to the UK due to the power of the Unions.

    I am surprised at your placing this preference for Germany in the mid 70s. Since 1974 when Germany passed codetermination laws mandating worker consultation in all companies, I found it otherwise. Through the 80s I worked for a major multinational with headquarters in the USA and they regarded codetermination rules in their German branch as the bane of their life. I don’t necessarily agree.
    wikipedia:
    “There are three main views as to why co-determination primarily exists: to reduce management-labour conflict by means of improving and systematizing communication channels;[1] to increase bargaining power of workers at the expense of owners by means of legislation;[2] and to correct market failures by means of public policy.[3] The evidence on “efficiency” is mixed, with co-determination having either no effect or a positive but generally small effect on enterprise performance.[4″

  30. amie
    I remember the fuss about co-determination laws quite well
    - it was supposed to mark the end of any corporate success in Germany, the destruction of all of German economy etc etc.
    Americans were moaning all over the place as were our non-socialistic minded MPs and punditry.
    However, it seemed that in practice Unions were more interested in keeping things going.

    I am not really qualified to know what made them so amenable because I’ve always worked in the realm of Chemistry-Union which has gotten its stuff agreed upon without even a minor strike now since probably before human memory and where the fuss about co-determination evaporated into boredom in no time whatsoever. Oral history from Metal-Union employees may have a different story to tell as they had major strikes.

    It may interest you to know that if you work in a corporation that has via its – lets say – Chemistry-Employer-Union entered a contract with the Chemistry-Worker-Union you will be paid Union-wages and get Union-benefits without even being a member. The whole model seems to me to be designed very much with an eye to consensus building.

  31. Gamil
    here is some valuable info on Camels, which I am sure you don’t want to miss:

    http://itunes.apple.com/de/podcast/alan-templer-smoking/id303783970?i=82115180

  32. ‘antizionistitus’, Gawd, that’ so laa-ame! Modders, slightly more petty bourgeois than Rodders but a plonker nonetheless…

    Suetonius provides us with more insightful stuff on the EDL’s (entirely logical) support for the Zionist Thingy. Thank you, Sirreeh!

    Richard:

    Yea, rip into Jeremy’s blog for a change. He’s the right winger around here.

    Don’t make me laugh, I’m still hurtin’, specially the sides. You, not a winger?!?!??

    This communist thingy… it’s not the first it’s popped up here: ‘communist Jews’, remember? Which is wholly unfair because if I wrote that (not a hair on my head…) there would be those who’d cry wolf… the ‘Bolshevik Jew’ canard, remember?

    But he (JH), he’s not wurffit: nobody reads him. I tell a lie: probably a couple of rabid Mad Mellians do…

    Nazigirrrrl:

    No clickin’, remember?

  33. Daniel
    Do you know of a plausible explanation, why the “free Gazans” can hobnob with aiming at killing as many as possible martyrdom thugs without their followers blinking so much as an eye?

    while on the other hand I remember lots of discussions about the US “Christian right’s ” pro-Israel stance leading to lots of head-scratching and arguments galore that the pro-Israel-ones would lose all credibility, if they are allowed to hobnob with others than holier than thou lily whites?

  34. Yes Silke,

    That is my point. There is a deep self-hatred that many of us have. It comes from living 2,000 years with people who despise Judaism and Jews and beginning to wonder whether they might not be right.

    The Jew has a sneaking respect for those who dislike him and yearns for their acceptance. On the other hand, anyone who likes or supports us must be mad and earns our disdain. As Groucho Marx famously said, “I don’t care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.” It’s a topic that deserves elucidation.

    • Dannenbaum wrotes…

      The Jew has a sneaking respect for those who dislike him and yearns for their acceptance. On the other hand, anyone who likes or supports us must be mad and earns our disdain. As Groucho Marx famously said, “I don’t care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.” It’s a topic that deserves elucidation.

      This nutcase doesn’t even realise it when he writes something that’s deeply antisemitic. Talk about ‘elucidation’. You twit…

  35. Daniel
    I love Groucho Marx’s maxime, but that said you are probably right that Jews are especially prone to the attitude but it is not a singular Jewish one. For Jews it has been a constant over millenia but I think it must be happening wherever group antagonisms are virulent.
    So it might be helpful to the effort of developing a theory to look for more everyday experiences in an effort to find less complex models where one can isolate individual constants of the phenomenon.
    I keep being intrigued by Sebastian Haffner’s claim that in 1930s Germany the “left” preferred to preserve their dogma-aherence-purity to uniting and so split themselves into such tiny groups that the Nazi-thugs could have a ball picking them of one by one. I imagine it as something like a Trotskyite would prefer to be killed by Hitlerite before consenting to buddy up with a Stalinite. But again that is another example too high up on the complexity scale.
    Where does it occur in home-owner-land, in office-land, in voluntary fire-brigade-land etc. etc. and why is one group or individual getting away with it and another not. Finding the basic mechanisms at work there might throw a light on the bigger issues also.

    and something else, try as I might I don’t get that self-hate thing. People eager to climb the social ladder which when they do it for the benefit of their children seems to be a laudable enterprise to me tend to be very harsh to and about those they leave behind or rather below. Since social ladder climbing probably was the only way Jews for millenia had a chance of providing well for their children they may be more rigorous in employing the practice as for example first generation into the office peasant-children are, but believe me they are going for it.
    But self-hate? In my experience love, the wish to be smiled upon, is the real strong motive to act admirably and as a traitor alike.

    I see the above as a contribution to a hopefully developing kind of idea-finding session and thus will not apologize for the incoherences therein. because: there are no stupid questions, there are only stupid answers.

  36. And I love you too Gert sweetheart.
    ps 100,000 people read the Jewish News. Go figure.

  37. Jeremy
    I guess from your PS that you write for people who can read ;-)

  38. Daniel ,

    Thankyou for raising some interesting questions .

    First of all I’m a working class Trade Union activist so My concens about the EDL are nothing to do with their class basis , neither do I have any problem with working with Non-Jewish & Christian groups – I work very closely with Christian Friends Of Israel & Non-Jewish Trade Unionists .

    The EDL have Their Own agenda & reasons for coming to AHAVA – They actually spend very little time in trying to counter the Boycott campaign – They look extremely aggressive & make passers-by feel uncomfortable . We do not want Them there !!!

    My comment referred to people Who don’t seem to realise that shouting & waving their arms around while standing next to EDL members wearing balaclavas when They know that the opposition are filming & taking photographs is not a very clever idea .

    The major problem with the EDL is that although They may contain many genuine people Who are opposed to Islamic Fundamentalism & the terrorism it generates it also has many members Who are connected to the British National Party , NF ; and other Racist & Fascist groups . The EDL also attracts many thugs Who are football hooligans . For further information about these facts I would encourage people to read Searchlight Magazine’s Intelligence reports about the EDL : http://www.searchlightmagazine.com )

    For all these reasons The Zionist Movement & The Jewish Community should distance themselves from the EDL – the EDL are uninvited & unwanted interlopers on Our Counter-Demonstration .

  39. Ian

    the way I read you it comes to when un-PC-people show up the PC-people are to clear the field?

    there certainly must be smarter things to do than just give ground?

    in German we say “der Klügere gibt nach” i.e. the more intelligent yields – and it is beloved by mediators who want to end a conflict hoping that one of the two is so eager on seaming intelligent that he/she gives ground.
    It works amazingly often btw

    Somewhere this morning I read that the pro-Ahava-istas in New York were quite a success – do you think everybody who joins them is PC by your standards? or that in the US they hold freedom of expression so dear that they don’t accuse their own side of our Bridlington-man’s oh so beloved “guilt by association”

  40. The issue concerning the EDL should be fairly clear to anyone with access to the Internet and the ability to do elementary research.

    The EDL are essentially a proto-neofascist street gang, and despite whatever flag they choose to wave we shouldn’t have any illusions about them.

    Let us not forget a few things:

    1) The founder of the EDL freely admits that the organisation was taken over by BNPers and neo-Nazis.
    2) The EDL stage provocative events whose sole purpose is to generate racial conflict.
    3) EDL events are attended by numerous well-known neo-Nazis, BNPers and their allies.
    4) EDL events are advertised on white supremacist bulletin boards and Stormfront, etc.
    5) BNPers and their mates are in key positions within the EDL, including the leadership.
    6) Their objective is to grow and become a strong political force and a sizeable presence on the streets (shades of the 1930s).

    All of this has been documented, no one should associate in any way shape or form with these football hooligans, neo-Nazis, certified racists and their friends.

  41. The EDL was once in essence the ‘brain’ child of one Paul Ray, who runs lionheartuk.blogspot.com (Chicken Heart’s always good for a few belly laughs).

    Some of his exploits:

    • ex drug dealer-cum-born again Christian and ex-BNP
    • claims to have infiltrated the ISM once (I don’t believe a syllable of it, he’s a mythomaniac)
    • a committed Zionist
    • claims Luton has been taken over by al-Qaeda (no kidding!)
    • believes Britain will be saved by restoring Absolute Monarchy in the form of Prince Harry (no kidding)
    • famously fled to the US, seeking, wait for it… political asylum, because Luton police wanted to question him for making hate speech (he’s no fan of Muslims, that’s for sure). Except to the Americans he was just a potential criminal on the run, of course
    • in the US he managed to make an enemy of Charlie Johnson (LGF) who called him a ‘fascist’. Paul came back to Blighty with his tail between his back legs. The police decided not to waste their time with this whackjob, at least not for now
    • has a tremendous propensity to make enemies: he falls out with everybody he meets, including the EDL (his own group). Now he’s said to lead the EDL’s sub division ‘St George’s Division’ which I believe is basically Paul Ray and erm… Paul Ray!

    A nicer nut you couldn’t wish to meet. And he looks soooo cute when he’s waving Zion’s flag…

  42. modernity
    so when you stand there waving an Israeli flag and somebody from EDL comes standing next to you waving another Israeli flag you’ll run as fast as you can, so nobody can take a picture of you two together.

    Your list of dos and donts sound very nice to me but what do you do in real life.
    Let’s say you party something Israeli in a restaurant and the next table has EDL-people cheering you, you stop your meal and your party and run?

  43. Silke,

    Frankly, I fail to understand most of your comments or reasoning in these posts, but I think anyone who’s a German speaker, remotely familiar with the history of the 1930s and can string together a couple of thoughts, would understand the dangers of becoming embroiled with the EDL and their neo-fascist friends?

    But let me ask you a question:

    Would you consider the company of NPDers as enjoyable?

    Or would you avoid them like the plague? Which is it?

  44. modernity

    thanks for hitting below the belt ! I enjoy that always very much, it gives me such nice memories of my youth when each and every non-German had been a member of la résistance .. and believe me, once you’ve reached my age you enjoy everything that triggers memories of the golden days of your youth.

    but be assured hitting below the belt is not an elegant way to avoid taking a stance on situations cropping up in real life that may prove not to be conducive to the purist upholding of one’s theories.

    If lets say I were in a parliament and wanted to “kill” an anti-Israel resolution and couldn’t do it without the support of the NPD would I drop the resolution? I wouldn’t –
    but before you do yells of triumph rest assured you would never ever find our NPD in favour of anything pro-Israel. If they’d come across the AHAVA theatre they’d join the BDS-side and swing their baseball bats

  45. Silke,

    I wasn’t aiming to hit below the belt just make the point obvious.

    I’m afraid most of your arguments appear to me to be non sequiturs.

    You can’t answer a direct question in opposition to NPD, so forgive me if I ignore you, but if you can’t understand what I’ve already said, then it seems to me that you won’t understand any other points.

    Thus, any exchange between us would be fruitless.

  46. modernity

    what a pity you chicken out, I like people to stick to their insults, it is so much more fun, so lets say in practice you hit below the belt and in theory you didn’t intend to

    I admit you remind me too much of those McKinsey consultants who were always sure about the theory/procedure/maxims and would always chicken out when it came to dealing with problems while actually doing things.

    for you it is either becoming embroiled or running away whenever they show up at the horizon – other than that your question is unanswerable, the NPD is a party which competes in elections and wins seats and no matter how singularly unappetizing it is, both its supporters and its elected members of state parliaments and heaven knows where else.

    So no matter whether one enjoys their company or not one has to deal with them in real life and people like you who call the chance to figure on the same photograph getting embroiled are not helpful in any way.

  47. silke,

    “other than that your question is unanswerable, “

    Utter rubbish.

    Anyone remotely oppose to neofascism or fascism would not consort, go near, be seen dead in the company of the NPD, etc etc

    The fact that you don’t understand that simple point indicates that there is no useful purpose in trying to discuss these issues with you.

    A reasonable exchange of views is only possible **if** both parties share some common ground.

    We don’t have that common ground between us, therefore, there is no point merely talking past each other.

    You don’t understand me and I frankly can’t be troubled to work out your tortured prose.

    So finally, that’s enough of that.

  48. modernity
    be seen dead in the company of the NPD
    by your simpleton world view ooops wonderfully ethical theories the remainder of the Saxon Parliament should do what?
    shut down government?
    Churchill sucked up to Stalin for the benefit of his island and if you’d take the trouble of reading his WW1 long-version you’d realize that the “bolsheviks” were the only group which he hated with such energy that he couldn’t find even one good word for them.

    as to tortuous prose that must be due to my native German shining through – what is your native language?

    and just to upholster your world view a bit – the German party running the “Rosa-Luxemburg-Foundation” travelled with the flotilla and is a hit on the lecture circuit with their anti-Israel-rants. Let’s hope the two haven’t yet started to meet at Stammtisch-get-togethers.

    Several days after the Israeli raid on the Turkish flotilla to Gaza, Holger Apfel, leader of the NPD faction in the Saxon Parliament, launched an unrestrained attack on Israel. He spoke about the “Jewish terror state”, the “country of villains” and the “flourishing Holocaust industry”. After Apfel refused to obey the parliament speaker’s calls for order, he was forced to leave the hall and banned from returning until December.
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3922006,00.html

  49. Modders:

    Frankly, I fail to understand most of your comments or reasoning in these posts, but I think anyone who’s a German speaker, remotely familiar with the history of the 1930s and can string together a couple of thoughts, [...]

    Familiar? Her popsickle was in the Wehrmacht, ferch*ssake! As a ‘draftee’, mind you… Off to the East where a Red Army Comrade made him eat his own balls. He was never the same after and turned out too incompetent to kill himself….

    thanks for hitting below the belt ! I enjoy that always very much, it gives me such nice memories of my youth when each and every non-German had been a member of la résistance [...]

    … is now the third time that she ridicules those who opposed the Nazis. Methinks that Helga (‘she-wolf of the SS’?) hasn’t really digested Germany’s defeat too well, if you get my drift…

  50. modernity
    just to save you from getting things wrong the Bridlington fiction writing way.

    my father volunteered before the draft got to him, probably mainly to escape marital hell, and then got himself quickly jailed for misbehaving, at least that’s how the family lore has it.
    even though he survived saddled with a 100 % disability he managed to provide well for his family by working hard besides his day job. There are (non-academic) chemists who prefer to not live “between jobs”.

    Oh and in the end he succeeded in committing suicide and even did it in style!

    other than that, I think you do a very good job at your blog as to the EDL but that doesn’t excuse your dodging real life Catch 22s

  51. Richard,

    My point concerning trade unions has not been addressed, I presume this is out of ignorance.

    I personally favour more left-wing trade unions, not shouty leaders, but real activism.

    That isn’t the situation now, despite my wishes.

    What we should, however, do is base our views on the evidence.

    30+ years ago trade unions were much stronger, had Left-wing leaders, even knew what they wanted to achieve, whatever you think of it.

    But now that is not the case, trade unions are the weakest they’ve ever been in the postwar period, membership is down, days lost to strikes is at an all-time low, etc etc

    Those facts might not satisfy the average paranoid Daily Mail reader, but that’s what it is.

    What you need to do is to see beyond the rhetoric of trade union leaders, who incidentally are more beholden to Tony Blair than anyone else.

    These are not radicals, they are by and large rather Establishment figures, who years back would end up in the House of Lords.

    If you can’t digest the reality of the state of trade unions in Britain now, then it is extremely difficult to discuss these and other complex issues with you.

    I’ll bow out.

    • richardmillett

      MB (and Ian), I am only stating what I feel. It wasn’t a Tory rant. I am actually concerned for the country and as I said am happy to be proved wrong.

      The unions seem to be very anti-Israel. You say I suffer from AntiZionistitus (I think). That isn’t true. Look at the UCU and the AUT going for academic boycotts. Then the TUC on settlements and next year it could be a full Israel boycott. And the PSC has increasing influence with the unions. That is what I am concerned about.

      I am also concerned about where we could be heading under Ed M as a country. There seem to be a plethora of strikes even now and seeing that the unions voted Ed M. in who is to say that that won’t get worse now. Communism-lite (a made up word, maybe, like AntiZionistitus) is a form of communism of which yet i do not know. But that is the trend, I believe, on which some unions would like to be, whether they are weak or not.

      I don’t think I am too out of sync. being concerned for a Britain that has a weak opposition.

  52. Oh and in the end he succeeded in committing suicide and even did it in style!

    In the end, yes. It’s just such a goddamn shame he managed to conceive you first…

  53. please y’all note as soon as days off let alone holidays loom the Bridlington phantasist can’t restrain himself any longer from woeing me with all his charms.

    Please also y’all note that I was conceived by my mother before father went to war (his excuse being “must defend wife and kid”) further conceivements were postponed since he was so full of drugs that they considered it to be unwise to get another one going.

    and now for all of you off to feasting, have a wonderful time, may all the good powers of this world smile on you and provide you with nothing but joy.

    modernity
    you are referring to unions only 30 years back i.e. 1980, it kind of helps to leave out of the picture what they purportedly did to the UK in for example 1974.

  54. Does that mean you’re the only fruit of his loins? If so, thanked be the Lord for small mercies…

    You can quit cooing Modders now: he seems to be the only Zionist here who sees right through you. You’ll have to make do with Herr ‘Jews are basically stooopid’ Dannenbaum and lill’Adam when he’s not flipping those burgers…

  55. OT but such good news I wanna share it – from comments at Elder of Ziyon

    Getting back to earth for a moment:
    in local news:
    Ricky’s in Brooklyn, under seige by code pink for daring to sell Ahava products just experienced a “buycott”- selling out of israeli products
    read more here:
    http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/33/40/bh_ahava_2010_10_01_bk.html?comm=1
    the leswson, as usual: when we fight back, we win.

  56. anyone flipping burgers for a living is preferred by me to fluent in 4 languages, proud to be geeks, “between jobs” chemists, claiming to be on projects while letting their leaking apertures pollute their sit-down-in-facility.

  57. Nazigirrrl:

    anyone flipping burgers for a living is preferred by me

    You always had low standards. Perhaps with pappi like that, how else could it have been, huh?

  58. richardmillett

    Gert, give it a rest attacking someone’s family like this, will you?

  59. Richard
    just to be clear – his rants don’t bother ME, actually I find them quite valuable because they signal to me that he has long ago given up any hope to make money in any job where decency is a prerequisition. I suspect that even Burger places would hire somebody with such dirty habits let alone keep them on their payroll once it has been pointed out to them. There are people who are convinced that dirty minds make for dirty habits and I happen to be one of them.

    btw once long ago he had actually managed to insult me and he didn’t realize he had scored even after I had pointed it out to him

  60. Ian,

    Thank you for your interesting and thoughful response.

    I faithfully clicked on your link to the Searchlight magazine and put EDL in their search tool. It seems, on the face of it, to be a Left wing site with a very clear and unhidden agenda and a lot of articles about the BNP. Could you provide a link to the “EDL intelligence reports”?

    My understanding is that there is nothing anti-Semitic or anti-Israel about the organization, but you have three problems with them:

    1. You do not agree with their policy towards immigration or UK immigrants.
    2. You consider some of their leaders to have had Neo-Nazi connections.
    3. You consider them to be a bunch of hooligans, football supporters etc.

    1. Regarding the issue of UK immigration, I do not live in the UK any more and hence would not dream of expressing an opinion even if I had one, which I don’t.
    In the most simple terms it does seem to me that even talking about the immigration problem would have branded you a fascist a few yeras ago, while today most parties are addressing it.
    I see no reason why a Zionist organization in the UK should not cooperate on an ad hoc basis with another group, even if it does not agree with that group regarding unrelated issues. This happens every day in every democratic political system.
    2. No Jewish organization anywhere should ever have any dealings with Nazis other than to kill them.

    When it comes to ex-Nazis I agree that they are not suitable partners, though it should be noted that millions of ex-card-carrying German Nazis went unpunished and returned to normal business, cultural and even political life. Most are dead today, but 30 years ago every second German politician was an ex-member of the Nazi party.

    In the case of ex-Neo-Nazis who have repented their ways and whose crimes were words rather than actions I say that they deserve at least the mercy that the ones who actually served in Hitler’s army deserved.

    That having been said I agree that no known ex-Nazis, Neo-Nazis or even ex-Neo-Nazis should be allowed to attend any Jewish event. I would imagine that if you worked with the EDL you’d be able to persuade them of this.

    3. Regarding their being football hooligans I find it hard to comment. While I detest football, I know that many don’t and calling your opponents and the referee names is as much of British culture as tea and scones. It would be nice if all Israel’s supporters were highly-intelligent chess players like Nick Kopaloff or beautiful, worldly linguists like Silke, but what can you do? The opposition have their scum like the Gerts of this world and until there are enough demonstrators that we can hold selection committees, you take your support where you can get it.

    On a personal note I saw a clip on youtube of London policemen literally being chased by Moslem thugs with objects being thrown at them.

    Somebody had written that it was a pity there were no EDL lads there. Someone will eventally have to restore sanity, and for all their wonderful flyers, I’m not that the Zionist Federation is up to it.

  61. Richard:

    Gert, give it a rest attacking someone’s family like this, will you?

    As always, I’m merely playing Silke’s own game…

    As always, Silke can say whatever she wants but others can’t…

    As always hypocritical wingers like you have to show some faux sensitivity…

    You silly f*rt…

    • richardmillett

      I’ve never stopped you saying anything but it’s you who has to live with yourself coming out with these highly personal attacks.

  62. When it comes to scum like Helga Silke, I can live with that. Easy.

    Now let’s have a look at Dannenbaum’s latest exploits…

  63. Richard ,
    My apologies if I was having a similar ” I Love Trade Unions !!! ” rant – I obviously feel passionately about My beloved Trade Union Movement & I hope I defend it as ferociously as I defend Israel & The Jewish People .

    Needless to say I have the greatest of respect for Your equally strongly held political activism – it’s just that in a Democracy people can agressively promote Their positions while at the same time remaining friends – as I’m sure We are .

  64. Dannenbaum wrote:

    The opposition have their scum like the Gerts of this world and until there are enough demonstrators that we can hold selection committees, you take your support where you can get it.

    On a personal note I saw a clip on youtube of London policemen literally being chased by Moslem thugs with objects being thrown at them.

    Somebody had written that it was a pity there were no EDL lads there. Someone will eventally have to restore sanity, and for all their wonderful flyers, I’m not that the Zionist Federation is up to it.

    So basically you take your support where you can get it even if it comes from a bunch of demonstrable racists?

    The behaviour of these Muslims is appalling but says very little about the Muslim community or Islam itself. Perhaps Dannenbuam hasn’t read the comments this video attracted? Near 100% Islamophobic garbage…

    “Someone will eventally have to restore sanity”, that sounds rather ominous and still he can’t let go of the idea of an alliance with the EDL! This from the rarefied air from Ma’ale Adumim…

  65. Dear Judah ,
    My apologies for difficulty in finding Searchlight report on EDL . Try Searchlight’s other site Hope Not Hate

    http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/English-Defence-League-Hooligans-Unmasked.php

    Or go to the Hope Not Hate Website .

    You are right that Searchlight is a left of centre organisation . Searchlight believes that Socialist Parties must promote jobs , housing to undercut the far right who are trying to recruit alienated working class people .

    Searchlight has quite a few activists Who used to be in The Communist Party ( The CP has a long history of campaigning against Fascism going back to The Battle Of Cable Street 1936 )

    Searchlight has always tried to liase with The Jewish Community ( it was for this reason that the rival Unite Against Fascism group spread propaganda that Searchlight were ” Zionists ” )

    I hope the link & My comments go some way to explaining why the EDL are a problem for The Zionist Movement & Our Counter-Demonstration .

  66. Daniel Marks

    Hi Ian,

    I have looked at the new link with interest. It seems based a lot on reports of various characters such as Davy Cooling. Since no documentation or easily verifiable facts are provided, it’s hard to make a judgement one way or the other.

    I guess that living so far away from the UK I’m out of touch with some of the subtleties of your political system. Apparently while any connection that a person ever had to “Fascism” permanently tarnishes him and places him outside the fold, while to be an ex”Communist” is a completely respectable calling card.

    The criticism of the EDL seems to be largely based on linking it with the BNP and then blaming it for all the sins of the latter. I can see the argument , but I live in a country where large parts of its Left Wing once supported Stalin, and some of its Right Wing expressed admiration for Mussolini (before WW2 of course) and so I find this rather selective guilt by association problematic at best.

    In Israel we are constantly being told to make enormous concessions and “peace” with a Palestinian national movement whose leadership supported Hitler and whose leader sat in Berlin during the war encouraging him to speed up the Holocaust. We made “peace” and returned the Sinai to Anwar Sadat and self-confessed fan of Hitler and are currently negotiating with Abu Mazen who college thesis was in Holocaust denial. These were/are our enemies and in Hebrew we say that peace is made with enemies not with friends.

    It’s interesting that you write about Cable Street because my grandfather was there. The Jews, for the most part were not Communists and most of the Communists were not Jews. They found common ground in an enemy who both saw as threatening them, even though on most other matters I have no doubt that they disagreed.

    Seven decades later I suspect it would be hard to find many non-Jewish Communists turning up for a demonstration in support of Israel. Though it’s hard to see what British Left-wingers find in common with radical Islam other than their hatred of us, that is the present coalition. Nor are either side particularly interested in changing their minds.

    In that situation I would stand with the man who will hold my flag and not with the one who calls for me to be boycotted.

    • My position is to stand on My Own seperate Counter-Demonstration with My Own flag focusing on campaigning against the boycotters .

  67. thanks for your last Daniel

    you are the first who is not dodging my question relating to how pro-Israel-ones should behave in the real-life situation described by Ian at 10:55. Mind you I am not judging the decisions they took, only those who were there are qualified to have opinions on whether giving ground was the best action available.

    in my book “running” deserves a PC-price but it is dodging the Catch 22, which Christians solve by insisting that saving a soul is deemed more worthy than caring for a living one’s health and sanity (I guess it’s because for them the afterlife still is the thing which really counts). Did you know that Toynbee claimed that Communism was a brain child of Christianity?

    I just wikipedia-ed Cable Street – I know of no similar event in Germany not that there weren’t worthy pockets of resistance who it seems were at least in Berlin put out of business one after the other but it seems to me that Sebastian Haffner is right when he claims that they were more intent on keeping their beliefs pure than fighting side by side and they may have had good reason. I guess it would have been a deadly sin for a social democrat to be seen marching next to a communist.

  68. Dannenbaum wrote:

    Though it’s hard to see what British Left-wingers find in common with radical Islam other than their hatred of us, that is the present coalition.

    … is a barefaced lie, typical of the more Manichean part of the Far Right to which Dannenbaum belongs. In reality the Left (anywhere in the world) realised immediately that 9/11 would be used extensively to point the finger at Muslims and Islam in general.

    Two wars against innocent Muslim countries later, Islamophobia in both the US and Europe strongly on the rise, Israeli leaders’ desperate bid to try and lump Hamas and Hezbollah in with al-Qaeda, the Islamic Center (‘Ground Zero Mosque’) and the ‘Burn a Quran day’ flap, and we feel completely vindicated. But we have nothing to do with the malicious extreme wing of Islamism, as manifested in al-Qaeda and fellow travelers.

    It’s a Fox Noise style smear, nothing else… But children like Danny believe it…

  69. Daniel Marks

    Ian,

    I understand your position and respect your moral integrity.

    I would, however, as whether in a situation where the “bad” guys have formed a broad based coalition of people who ideologically have nothing in common other than their Antisemitism, it is wise for the “good” guys to hold separate demonstrations according to their political attitudes to the seemingly unrelated question of immigration to the UK.

    Anyway, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one and I wish you the best of luck “campaigning against the boycotters: whichever flag you are holding.

    Gert,
    When you learn to speak in a respectful way I shall address all of your arguments. As long as you refer to me with your made-up Anti-semitic name and offend ladies like Silke in a foul-mouthed and vulgar way that is befitting of an ignorant guttersnipe I shall prefer to converse with others.

    Unlike yourself, I have limited free time and I shall not waste any more of it on a bone-headed, Birlington bigot who calls me Dannenbaum. I suspect that you are too ignorant to know, but In August 1938, German authorities decreed that by January 1, 1939, Jewish men and women bearing first names of “non-Jewish” origin had to add “Israel” and “Sara,” respectively, to their given names. How proud Adolf Hitler (may he rot in hell) would be to know that there’s one last idiot still left in the world following his decree calling Daniel Dannenbaum.

    I strongly believe in everyone’s right to free speech, but no less, I believe it is my privilege to choose with whom I wish to exercise that right.

    Now go and crawl back to your Nazi gutter.

  70. Daniel
    how really sweet of you to call me a lady, makes me smile no end.

    and you prove yourself to be a gentleman by promising to adress you-know-who’s arguments. I have recently listened to an interview with Mustafa Barghouti and came to the conclusion that there are people who use, on the surface of it, polite tactics for spreading slander and lies that can’t be addressed in any effective way. Notice how he presents his claim that Jim Crow enforcers were better people than Israelis. The argument is slanderous on so many angles that you’d probably need to write a thesis to debunk it only to have it being made again and again and again. There is a certain lack of shame and common decency and basic good manners to these people that can’t be adressed by arguments. Notice how he uses the word “even” at the end thereby insinuating that whatever limitations there are on roads come on top of bus and restaurants.
    You are talking about a situation where we the Palestinians are prevented from using all our main roads because they are exclusive for Israelis and Israeli Army and Israeli settlers. This did not happen even during the segregation time in the [United] States. People could not use the same bus or same restaurant. But here you can’t use the same road even.
    http://www.radioopensource.org/mustafa-barghouti-is-there-room-for-gandhi-in-palestine/

  71. Daniel
    I just remembered this
    And you’ve never read anything by one of Israel’s leading critics of contemporary Zionism up to now?
    whoever calls Gideon Levy leading anything in the writing department must have severe deficiencies in the reading department and whoever has severe deficiencies in the reading department is immune to anything even vaguely resembling reason let alone common sense. – the little I have read from Levy to date has convinced me that the man is a pretender, pretending to possess a knowledge of culture he clearly hasn’t (Hochstapler we call such people-high stapler). And why someone who is a fraudster in one department should be trustworthy in another eludes me.
    https://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/gideon-levy-packs-them-in-at-amnesty/#comment-3042

  72. Dannenbaum:

    When you learn to speak in a respectful way I shall address all of your arguments. As long as you refer to me with your made-up Anti-semitic name and offend ladies like Silke in a foul-mouthed and vulgar way that is befitting of an ignorant guttersnipe I shall prefer to converse with others.

    Unlike yourself, I have limited free time and I shall not waste any more of it on a bone-headed, Birlington bigot who calls me Dannenbaum.

    Hard to find a bigger hypocrite than you: for pages and pages on end, you, your friends and Nazigirrrrl have been slagging me off at the rate of knots for entire days on end, now you demand I be ‘respectful’? Fat chance… What happened to your no ‘holds barred approach’? Works only one way, does it?

    You have limited free time? So have I, my little nincompoop… You however seem to have almost days on end to have dedicated to moi. Consistency doesn’t appear your strong suit, unless it’s consistent stupidity…

    Your attitude to the EDL is worth the price of gold dust to me: it’s living proof that some Zionists are more than willing to knowingly get into bed with what are at least proto-fascists. But then you’ve expressed admiration for Geert Wilders too. Birds of a feather.

  73. Daniel Marks

    I cancelled my subscription to Haaretz many years ago and thus see little of Levy. He does occasionally appear on a late night political show together with another (moderately Left Wing) journalist. They shout at each other and a third (Left Wing) one tries to calm them down, but I rarely see it. In general I suspect that he is better known outside of Israel than he is inside.

    I consider his views to be legitimate, though they are not mine. He belongs to the extreme left of the Israeli Zionist spectrum, the only Zionist party that comes near to his views is Meretz which has three out of 120 of the seats in the current knesset. There may be political and organizational reasons for the present weakness of the extreme left and I would approximate their real support among Zionist Israelis at perhaps 10%.

    We are a democracy and Gideon Levy has as much right to his opinion as anyone else. He chooses to live in Israel and share his destiny and that of his children with me and my children and that is more than can be said for many Jews with views similar to mine who live abroad.

    As far as being a fraudster, I disagree. I believe that he has good intentions and has no goal of harming Israel, but wants what he says as best for her. However, we all that the road to hell is paved with those same good intentions.

  74. Daniel
    for me from abroad Levy’s patriotic feelings are not of importance, but since I as a rule like to read what both sides have to say I would like to have found him worth my attention. If, however, such a man tries to pass himself of as better-read than he is then I find him untrustworthy. It is like with that latest flotillaner Prof. Dr. Reuven Moskovitz who is well-known on the German lecture circus. The Prof. has been debunked, the doctor-thesis can’t be found, should I believe anything else I am getting told about the man? I think not.

    And while I am at it, I admit that I read your stuff with the same watchful eye like anything I read and again and again I find you to be by my standards eminently trustworthy.
    That said, freedom of expression is nice and well but it also includes my right to pick my “informants” from the trustworthy.

  75. Daniel Marks

    Gert,
    I have nothing to add to what I’ve already said and until you begin behaving like a human being have no intention of addressing you again.

    Beating you up has become quite boring, so please find somebody else to pester.

  76. Dannenbaum:

    (Or would you prefer ‘F*cktardbaum’, a lot more appropriate?)

    As long as I notice your pathetic defense of the Little Ingelanders and proto-fascists of the EDL, I’ll point to your utter idiocy. ‘Conchovord’ (IIRW) and ‘Modernity’, both Zionists, have pointed it out to you too. The only one who seems to support you here is a dried up German witch whose daddy volunteered for the Wehrmacht and who seems unable to condemn the NPD… You really deserve each other…

  77. Gert,
    Careful now!

  78. Nicnacs:

    Careful with what, big boy?

  79. Gerty's Mate

    I feel I must point out that Gert’s postings were not always so unfocused and incomprehensible.
    He was once a great man of vision and compassion and it is only Daniel Marks and Silke with some help from Nick who have caused this once great leader to flounder.
    He may be out of work.He may have nothing better to do with his time than write meaningless comments on this excellent blog.He may not be on speaking terms with Misses Gert ever since she caught him knocking one off to a picture of Hitler in a garter belt, but he’s still our Gert and as such we should all try not to mention his small willy.

  80. Return of ‘Gerty’s mate’, some impostor from that ‘action group’ in Ma’ale Adumim, when Dannenbaum is tired of playing belletrist…

  81. Gerty's Mate

    Gert
    You really know how to hurt your friends

  82. Nick
    how kind and really gracious of you to alert Gert that something is wrong with him. Mental disintegration is often perceived by outsiders much more clearly and a lot earlier than by the sufferer himself. For you to disregard everything that has passed before and just express worry about him shows you to be a most generous soul.

    Especially his confessing that he couldn’t prevent himself from leaking from one of his apertures and then seems not to have been busy to clean himself up immediately makes me worry for him. It’d be nice, if we could alert a doctor to have a close look at the deterioration which we are witnessing from comment to comment either online or even better send him to his home.

  83. It is really truth that Gert has wacken off to a picture of Hitler? This is a horribel picture to think about.

    Maybe he does wackey wackey with little fat camels also :) or smelly camel bottoms (ha ha!)

  84. Greta (Gert junior): Hello Daddy. On the computer again?

    Gert: Yes, Greta. Talking to my friends.

    Greta: Oh you have friends Daddy. I never see any friends here. Why don’t you ever go out with your friends?

    Gert: No, they aren’t that kind of friends Greta. They’re blog friends.

    Greta: Why don’t you ask your friends if they can help you find a job Daddy? Mum says we need the money and it would be nice for you to get out sometimes.

    Gert: No, Greta. They’re not that kind of friends. They’re more the..the..the hate my guts kind of friends.

    Greta: Oh Daddy how sad. Do all your friends hate you? Why don’t you stop blogging with them?

    Gert: It’s not that simple Greta. What would I do all day? Anyway, they’re my only friends, my whole world. There’s Silke and Daniel and Richard and Nick and my mate. And now I have to write something else to them.

    Greta: But Daddy. All my friends’ Dads work and have real friends. They laugh at me and say that you’re a lazy, fat, blue-eyed wanker.

    Gert: Tell them I’m not blue-eyed Greta. And tell them that I’m a busy chemist, in between jobs working on a project.

    Greta: I love you Daddy. Even if nobody else does.

    Gert: And I love you too my sweet little Greta!

  85. howdy Gamil
    always glad to see you again but you mustn’t tell Gert’s sweet little secrets to everybody. I hope he pays you handsomely for the abuse of your camels.

  86. Resh
    that little conversation you overheard just broke my heart …

  87. Pleased to meet you Silke. We have Gert’s house bugged. The microphone is in Mrs. Gert’s Vibrator so there’s quite a lot of interference.

    We were able to record the conversation during a brief interval while she changed the battery.

  88. Resh
    I am impressed – you sound like you are even more of a geek than Gert is. Also I am glad to know that Mrs. Gert finds relief with a vibrator and is thus kind of independent.

    Gamil
    do Camels smell (I mean not their cute little bottoms I mean around the neck or so)? Does one smell of them as intensively as one does after having caressed an old dog?
    If they smell what does that smell resemble?

    Sorry to ask so many questions but ever since I read that book on Lawrence of Arabia I am terribly interested in the animals.

  89. 1. “Do Camels smell (I mean not their cute little bottoms I mean around the neck or so)?”

    Camels smell, not with necks but with noses.

    2. Does one smell of them as intensively as one does after having caressed an old dog?

    Yes, they are giving big smell to mens and Zionistic dogs are barking in camel shitty smell. This is racialistic.

    3. If they smell what does that smell resemble?

    It does resembeling my uncle Jasim.

  90. richardmillett

    Please can we stop the personal attacks from all sides.

  91. thanks for the reminder Richard
    I think it is about time to mention some of camels virtues.