Norman Finkelstein: “Israel could nuke Lebanon.”

Norman Finkelstein (New Jersey Jewish News Online)

Norman Finkelstein (New Jersey Jewish News Online)

Last friday I attended a round table discussion at CAABU (Council for Arab-British Understanding) with anti-Israel polemicist Norman Finkelstein.

Mr Finkelstein was coming to the end of his week’s speaking tour of British Universities.

Before he arrived CAABU’s education officer detailed CAABU’s recent trip to Gaza. They took two Lib Dem MPs, one Conservative MP and a Labour Lord and crossed into Gaza via the Rafah crossing.

There are two sets of schools in Gaza; those of a higher standard run by the UN and those run by “the government”. The government schools have their own syllabus which has a strong religious theme with no emphasis on human rights, unlike the UN run schools.

The CAABU party left behind “an expensive piece of medical equipment” which they are now trying to retrieve via the smuggling tunnels connecting Gaza to Egypt. Basically, one of the politicians left his dentures behind.

Eventually Mr Finkelstein walked in with the air of Norman Bates and proffered his theory on where the Middle East could be going in the next 12 to 18 months.

It centred on Lebanon.

He thinks there is a United Nations plot brewing to wipe out Hezbollah as follows:

Israel had recently left the town of Ghajar in Lebanon only so it could claim that as it was now in full compliance with UN Resolution 1701 Hezbollah should be fully disarmed.

Michael Williams, the UN’s representative to Lebanon, has reiterated this call.

Israel will now try to escalate resolutions at the UN which call for Hezbollah to be disarmed.

Sanctions against Lebanon will be announced and once they start to bite the Lebanese people will call for Hezbollah to be disbanded.

Conveniently, the UN’s Special Tribunal on Lebanon is about to indict several members of Hezbollah over the killing of Lebanese PM Rafiq Hariri in 2005.

This will ratchet up sectarian tensions in Lebanon as Hariri was a Sunni Muslim while Hezbollah is Shia.

Finkelstein’s own sources tell him that Hezbollah was not involved in the killing of Hariri, but it could have been Sunni extremists.

Meanwhile, CBC has just played a documentary in Canada, approved by the Harper government, detailing evidence linking Hezbollah to the assassination (view here).

Inevitably Iran will want to support Hezbollah.

But Hezbollah will be portrayed as a demonic power and a threat to international security making it impossible for Iran to support Hezbollah.

It will be similar to before the 1991 Gulf War when Sadaam was made to look like Hitler.

But the Lebanese will want to avoid 2006 again and so will comply with demands to disarm Hezbollah.

But Israel won’t want Hezbollah to disarm. They will want to show they have militarily defeated Hezbollah.

Israel is reconciled to Hezbollah rockets hitting Tel Aviv. There could be several hundred casualties but Israel will then destroy everything in Lebanon. It could be Armageddon.

Nasrallah thinks that Israel cannot absorb significant civilians lossed but he is mistaken. After the bungled operations on the Mavi Marmara and in Dubai Israel needs to prove its military prowess to deter others.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria and Turkey are tightening the noose around Israel. It is like the build up to 1967.

But Israel will deliver a big blow to cut the Muslims and Arabs, who only understand the language of war, down to size.

In 1967 Israel was fighting radical Arab nationalism. Now it is Islamic fundamentalism.

Israel has already stated it will apply the Dahiya Doctrine. This is “the use of pulversing force against a civilian population” as happened in Dahiya in 2006 when Israel destroyed the poor Shia town.

The first application of this doctrine was in Gaza.

Israel will then gloat that “we beat Hezbollah” and it will be like the miracle of the 1967 war again.

The war will probably come one June as June seems to be Israel’s “favourite month for raining death on neighbouring Arab countries”.

But it won’t come for a while yet as the UN resolutions will take time. The “UN lends legitimacy to these outrages” as in the Balkans, Iraq 1990-91 and Iraq 2002.

Nasrallah is “smart, competent and incorruptible”, exactly the sort of person the West doesn’t like.

Mr Finkelstein said he can understand why the Lebanese will want to avoid their country becoming like Gaza. In Gaza there were 650,000 tons of rubble and you’d have to multiple that several times for Lebanon next time.

“Israel will want to smash Lebanon to show the Arab world not to mess with us. Therefore, it won’t work by disarming Hezbollah.”

The 2006 war was unavoidable as Israel had been planning it since 2001 and is again working to re-establish its deterence capacity. Their mentality is to be patient and to slowly build up the facts like they did when they came to Palestine at the turn of the nineteenth century and in 1967.

Israelis are “crazy” and they will “send in everything. If everything doesn’t look like it is working and it looks like Israel is losing it won’t accept a third defeat. They will threaten the ultimate”.

He confirmed this as meaning nuclear.

In the meantime, if anyone finds a set of dentures in Gaza please contact CAABU……

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126 responses to “Norman Finkelstein: “Israel could nuke Lebanon.”

  1. As I was reading this article the telephone rang, a call from my dental surgery stating I am overdue a check up.

  2. And we need to know about your dentist because …?

    NF an ‘anti-Israel polemicist’? Yeah, right.

    The man is demonstrably deranged. He drips hatred like pus from a sore on wheels.

  3. You didn’t have to pay to get in and listen to this drivel, did you?

  4. I think his dentist reference was a joke connected to the dentures in Richard’s pay-off.

    Norman Finkelstein is quite the fantasist isn’t he? Israel never fulfils the apocalyptic fantasies of people like him. They must be so disappointed.

  5. Richard
    you surpassed yourself – of all the attempted Finkelstein put downs I’ve read so far I’d vote yours for first place.

    Thank you!

  6. richardmillett

    Thank you, Silke.

  7. Have I woken up and they have taken me into the Asylum? I hope Finklesteins’ carers are soothing him before he writes his great work of fiction!

  8. It’s ‘Finkelstein’, not ‘Finklestein’.

    The dig at Finkelstein/Norman Bates is deeply childish.

    Another problem with this piece is that it isn’t always clear where you’re attacking Norman’s positions and where you’re forwarding your own positions.

    I disagree with his ‘Dahiya analysis’ but he‘s right that Israel wants to eliminate Hezbollah: if Israel wants to attack Iran then it would be foolish to do so with twenty thousand rockets (or more?) ready to launch across the border.

    As regards the Hariri ‘investigation’: you’re naïve or agenda driven if you believe the truth will ever come out. There are too many entities that could have benefited from the assassination and the Zionist Entity had clear motive too. The ‘powers that be’ will hypocritically pursue this case ‘in the name of justice’ but neither the Zionist Entity or their friend the Drone Messiah have even the remotest interest in truth, justice or ‘FREEDOM!’ and are only interested in short term self-interest. As long as this continues and the Zionist Entity has the privilege of pondering over an offer for a 90 day ‘settlement chill’ in return for enough weaponry to deal a decisive blow to Iran’s nuclear facilities, Israel remains an ugly blight on the lives of those who live in its vicinity.

    The government schools have their own syllabus which has a strong religious theme with no emphasis on human rights.

    And you know this, how? Certainly Israel’s human rights record is abysmal. Click on that BTselem link in your blog roll…

  9. Daniel Marks has been proved right one more time.

    Gert can’t stay away – no matter how grand a good-bye he proclaims – just a little time alone with his dismal little blog with his drawing no readers cut and paste posts and he comes crawling back whining for play-mates.

    and why not, here is the one place where he may be sure to be read by one person at least and that is me

    I’m feeling genuinely honoured, just as if I would have one a major medal for something. There is nothing that beats feeling desirable.

    • richardmillett

      Silke, isn’t that a bit uncalled for? Give him a break. I mean we don’t agree with him but there is no harm in being challenged. No?

      • Do you mean I should twiddle my thumbs and demurely wait for him to call me Nazigirrrl?

        He promised to stay away, he broke the promise

        if you like his “challenge” – chacun à son goût!
        in my view he is pontificating, maligning, slandering, not challenging

      • richardmillett

        No to personal insults against you or against Gert.

  10. richardmillett

    Thanks, Gert.
    I wasn’t offering my own view at all. It was all Finkelstein’s theory.
    The comment about the government schools (by which he means Hamas) was made by the CAABU education officer.

  11. Richard:

    Going back a minute to this ‘no emphasis on human rights’. Well, my 16 year old daughter goes to an excellent local high school in this ‘champion of Human Rights and Civil Liberties’ that Albion claims to be (not entirely w/o justification). There is some education with regards to human rights but… emphasis? No way. As in all First World countries emphasis is relentlessly on the money disciplines: math, literacy, science (we’ll still manage to squander our technological prowess thanks to Simon Cowell and the ‘Britain has Talent’ brigade but that’s another story), but human rights, citizen’s rights and so forth? Education about what a democracy is supposed to be? No, all take a back seat. Is it possible that characteristically you expect of the ‘Arabs’ something you wouldn’t expect from ourselves?

    • richardmillett

      Gert, I didn’t make this clear. Again, this wasn’t my view but what CAABU said. The UN run schools teach human rights, unlike the Hamas run schools, which I would never expect to even touch on human rights being an out-and-out anti-Semitic terrorist group. I presumed that he meant Hamas when he referred to government run.

  12. ” but he‘s right that Israel wants to eliminate Hezbollah”.

    And that has to be by force, why? Because Israel is evil? I would think that any state would like to remove a paramilitary force inside it that competes with its government. Hezbollah could become a peaceful political party in Lebanon instead of being a gang of armed thugs and that would benefit Lebanon. But that is too much to ask of the so called “Party of God” hahahahahahaha, what a bunch of idiotic murderers!

    Quien a hierro mata, a hierro muere.

  13. Gert, how many times have you sworn to never return and then come back?

  14. “Certainly Israel’s human rights record is abysmal.”

    LOL. I just love it when impotent little people post this kind of dumb pile of drivel from their freezing bedsits, furiously typing with one hand while pleasuring themselves with t’other.

  15. Could someone please enlighten me on this denture thing? Thanks.

  16. Oh, OK, I missed that bit.
    And yes, defo Norman Bates.

  17. Great stuff! Israel haters should follow Finkelstein’s example and do more magic mushrooms. The resulting hallucinations as evidenced here are an absolute gift.

  18. What’s he on this Finkelstein? Did anybody really pay to bring him along to a meeting to regurgitate his fantasies on others?

  19. Indeed they are, Israelinurse, absolute comedy gold.
    And welcome. We used to exchange pleasantries on HP until that little sh%$*£ … err … open-minded and enlightened GZ kicked me out for casting nasturtiums on the One True Messiah.

  20. Attilathecricketer

    Ignore the fella and stop giving him publicity. He’s presumably just looking for book sales. If I was an Israeli I would want Hezbollah smashed militarily – as a neutral my over optimistic hope is that Israel finds a way to minimise the threat without killing as many people as 2006.
    Did you see the Guardian today – are you on the payroll yet?

  21. Fabian from Israel from Argentina:

    I would think that any state would like to remove a paramilitary force inside it that competes with its government. Hezbollah could become a peaceful political party in Lebanon instead of being a gang of armed thugs and that would benefit Lebanon.

    Statements like show only your complete ignorance regards the complexity of Lebanon and why Hezbollah came into existence in the first place.

    Hezbollah is of course already a political party (to be reckoned with) in Lebanon. Further politisation will follow. The regular Lebanese ‘army’ (if you can call it that) is likely to slowly meld with Hezbollah’s militia. But few inside Lebanon would agree with complete disarmament of Hezbollah: Southern Lebanon (in particular) owes too much to Hezbollah’s resistance to the Apartheid Occupation Forces.

    Hezbollah isn’t going anywhere, except in your wet dreams…

    • richardmillett

      Hezbollah seems to have split Lebanon into two states. The only people who sympathise with it are Shia extremists. It only exists now to fight Israel. It is destroying Lebanon from within instead of allowing Lebanon to develop and be the beautiful country that it is. Israel has no necessity or desire to be in Lebanon. If there was no Hezbollah Lebanon would thrive.

  22. Gert at 5:46 pm
    except in your wet dreams…

  23. Richard:

    Hezbollah seems to have split Lebanon into two states. The only people who sympathise with it are Shia extremists. It only exists now to fight Israel. It is destroying Lebanon from within instead of allowing Lebanon to develop and be the beautiful country that it is.

    Reductionist tosh that’s also well behind the times. Lebanon is coming together and Hezbollah has a place in that scenario. Yours is Manichean drivel without context.

    Stop pretending you give a rat’s arse about Lebanon when your characterisation of it is a plain caricature. You don’t understand the first thing or the last thing about that country and look at it with the lazy eye of a Western Zionist.

    ‘It now only exists to fight Israel’. Why, when’s the last time it attacked Israel? What capability does it have to fight Israel on the ground on Israel’s territory?

    It would also help if you told your flyboys to stop infringing into Lebanon’s sovereign airspace. Oh, silly me, Israel is entitled to do whatever it wants. ‘No checks and balances please, we’re Zionists! And don’t protest because that makes you an antisemite!’

    The flyovers will stop when Hezbollah acquires SAMs. Not long now…

  24. “Fabian from Israel from Argentina”
    In your wet dreams, little boy.
    He’s a Jew in Israel, you sad excuse for a waste of protoplasm.

  25. Why, when’s the last time it (Hezbollah) attacked Israel?

    http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/08/03/lt-col-res-dov-harari-killed-today-to-be-laid-to-rest-tommorow-3-aug-2010/

    Lt. Col (Res.) Dov Harari Killed Today to be Laid to Rest Tommorow, 3 Aug 2010
    Posted on August 3, 2010 by Israel Defense Forces
    Lt. Col (Res.) Dov Harari, who was killed today by Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) fire will be laid to rest tomorrow (Wednesday), August 4th 2010 at the Netanya Military cemetery.

    truly “challenging” dear not to be insulted Gert is, isn’t he Richard?

  26. “Hezbollah seems to have split Lebanon into two states. The only people who sympathise with it are Shia extremists. ”
    Manifestly untrue. Deranged spittle-flecked haters like Gert cheer it on also. Note his sexual excitement as he tells us that the IAF won’t be able to fly over Lebanon soon. Never mind that Israel has probably the most advanced avionics in the world … he can’t see that, because that would shatter his wet dreams.
    I’d love to know why little losers living in a bare loft in Islington, who have never been outside the M25, think they are experts on Lebanon. Oh, silly me: he reads the Guardian, so he thinks he’s an expert. What a sad case.

  27. Yoni
    you are being a wee bit unjust there –
    assuming that you mean Gert, he is from Bridlington not Islington and originally from Belgium and he once mentioned that he has visited the area of the Kiel Canal on a sailing boat – I don’t remember whether he told which passport he carries these days but last time I looked up his stuff he was working on establishing connections with pyroenthusiasts!

    If you want to know more about him, there is this interview but in it he showed no interest in pyroenthusiasts but was just an in-between-jobs one.

    http://www.pakspectator.com/interview-with-blogger-gert-meyers/

    If I got his hints during past encounters right then he plans to complain to WordPress, if Richard doesn’t protect him from personal insults (he of course is exempt). I think his aim is to force Richard to censor comments on this blog, his theory being that a blog which doesn’t censor like Mondoweiss, who allows adulation but little else, is bound to be wrecked by evil commenters.

  28. Silke, I don’t care where he’s from. His so-called mind operates like that of any other tosspot :)

  29. From Gert’s interview:

    “What’s the first thing you notice about a person (whether you know them or not)?

    “Use of language: it says more about a person than can be gleaned at a glance from any exterior traits.”

    What should we decipher about Gert from how scatological his use of language is, and from his serial lack of self-restraint viz a viz never coming back to this blog?

  30. All we need to know is that he keeps referring to the ‘Zionist entity’. That tells us that his so-called mind is a sewer.

  31. Lt. Col (Res.) Dov Harari, who was killed today by Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) fire will be laid to rest tomorrow (Wednesday), August 4th 2010 at the Netanya Military cemetery.

  32. I see that Richard Millett’s promises of trying at least to keep ad hom on these pages somewhat limited have already gone spectacularly out of the window.

    People like ‘Yoni’ are seriously to be pitied: what a paranoid life he/she must lead that any criticism of Israel is to be equated with ‘dreams about the imminent death of all Jews’. This coming from a person who in the recent past also claimed that (paraphrasing) ‘Islamophobia doesn’t exist’… Zionism is definitely not good to Jews or Judaism.

    Richard: ‘if you build it they will come’, it’s said. Well, they’ve come. Good luck with them…

    • so I guessed right, Gert has been pressuring Richard to hand over to him the right of what is fit for this blog

      “Developing your Web presence” it’s what it is called in Gert’s lingo by which he means that since his own blog doesn’t deliver the goods he wants to have the ultimate say on other peoples’ blogs because he is a geek and proud of it, so being in control is his birth right.

  33. “People like ‘Yoni’ are seriously to be pitied”
    a. Yoni is my actual name, loser.
    b. A deranged hater ‘pities’ me. ROFL.
    “what a paranoid life he/she must lead that any criticism of Israel is to be equated with ‘dreams about the imminent death of all Jews’”
    Do you ever stop lying?
    “This coming from a person who in the recent past also claimed that (paraphrasing) ‘Islamophobia doesn’t exist’ ”
    It may exist in some psychotic minds, the equivalent of Jew-phobia. However, 99.99% of what passes for ‘Islamophobia’ in the babblings of the idiots who write in the Guardian and Independent is rational criticism of an observable phenomenon.
    “Zionism is definitely not good to Jews or Judaism”
    Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish nation. We decide what’s good for us. So there’s the door, now bugger off.

  34. But Gert, Hezbollah does indeed dream about killing all Jews. remember Nasrallah’s statement that “it’s good the Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide…”?

    So, not quite paranoia, is it?

  35. Gert, do you have anything negative to say about Hizbollah?

    What about Finkelstein? were you happy with his disgusting book “The Holocaust Industry” – where he obscenely used the Holocaust to further his anti-Israel agenda?

  36. Guys, Why is it so wrong for a Jew not to be an Israeli fanatic?
    Israel as a sate seems very anti-Jewish for some Jews… Thats ok, that is NF seems things in his own Jewish (deranged for some, but enlightened and lacking racism against Arabs for others.)

    • richardmillett

      No one cares that someone is not an Israel fantatic, whether Jew or non-Jew. The religion is irrelevant. The shame of it all is their support for Hezbollah and Hamas, both self-confessed anti-Jewish groups. Not just anti-Jewish but with the expressed desire to kill Jews. Can you see the difference?

  37. Gert’s unwelcomed re-emergence on Richard’s fine blog, says as much about his honesty or lack of it, as it does about his mendacious agenda-driven attacks on the Jewish State.

    I was enjoying a quiet break from cyber-slagging but I have been forced to join the ranks of the gutsy Silke, and other comrade-in-arms and would entreat Daniel Marks to put his acclaimed literary career on hold just for a few postings, so as to wage war on our most unsavoury of adversaries. Daniel should finally move on – and come to terms with the fact that on his enigmatic blog, Gert dedicated a cover piece on me, yet reneged on his promise to do the same for Daniel!

    Let us again muster all of our poetry skills to belittle that Belgium scum bag who espouses selective ontological genocide as his sole raison d’etre in a vacuous life whose only accomplishments are a blog with a readership of about 3. Yet hope springs eternal and Black-shirt Gert remains optimistic about developing his web presence.

    With readily available over-the counter technologies we will provide photographic evidence of the exact Bridlington address (temporarily withheld) from where it has been alleged that he parades around hurling sneering abuse at the Zio’s. He has no gripe with the Jews, just the Zio’s, those that dare feel that Jews deserve a state in their ancestral homeland just like almost every other nation on earth.

    Gert is a man of distinction, not in the sense that he possesses anything remotely virtuous, rather he likes to draw distinctions between for example, Jews and Zios. There is nothing fine in the lines he draws, for he is both revolting and revolting.
    We see through his canards.
    We recognize that even a verb is a noun.
    Gert no hate dem Black’s, he hate dem niggers.
    Today we stand shoulder to shoulder – “Ich Bin Ein Zionist”.
    Gert’s optimism of developing his web presence is as misguided as his native countrymen’s sexual preferences.
    He will not have a voice on my watch.
    Gert will indeed be silenced!!!!

  38. I applaud the evergreen Nick’s carefully considered defense of Modern Political Zionism. Poetically I cannot compete, certainly not in my current medical state, so today I shall limit myself to prose.

    Somebody on the BBC said yesterday that many Israelis will be leaning back and saying, “We told you so” – Damn right!

    Two unmistakable facts have emerged in recent days thanks to Wikileaks. Neither of them is surprising to us “Hasbara” spokesmen, but many uninformed Western (Bridlington, Islington – who cares?) critics of Israel are still gasping for breath in a genuine state of shock:

    1. Not only is the Arab-Israeli conflict not at the heart of the “Middle East Crises”, but most Arab leaders have never given a flying duck (spelling mistake) about their Palestinian brethren.

    2. Not only is Israel not paranoid about Iran, but most of the regime’s best friends were begging the US to attack it.

    In other words, Islamic fundamentalism is the greatest menace to world stability today and even moderate regimes (yup, the ones that chop of thieves’ hands and stone adulteresses) recognize this to be the case.

    I would remind the current Iranian regime of the Arab proverb, “Fear those who are afraid of you.”

  39. “The religion is irrelevant”

    Come again?

  40. “enigmatic website”

    Brilliant! :)

  41. Daniel
    whatever it is, please please get well soon!

    and if Nick has got it right, also please go on pursuing your literary career, I can’t wait to buy the book, (hoping that it is going to be a book!)

  42. Richard; I do think we have to be sufficiently magnanimous to appreciate that Lebanon is such a complicated (although fascinating) issue that it is often far beyond the comprehension of so many in the West who require their politics and world affairs to fit into nice little pre-conceived boxes labelled ‘black’ and ‘white’.
    Frankly, I have no expectations of those of the ‘Gert in Bridlington’ (my sympathies) ilk on that front.
    On the other hand, it is also apparently too much to expect that even they would recognise a terrorist Iranian proxy with genocidal aspirations when they see one. But of course they are in good company with some of the peers of the realm, MPs, academics and diplomats who also fail to comprehend the current shifts in the power base in the Middle East, both because of their lack of proficiency in the local languages and their being burdened by bigoted pre-conceptions.
    As you so rightly say, the sad thing about this is that they are selling out the Lebanese people who currently face an unenviable choice between yet another civil war and a coup d’etat on the part of a fascist, theocratic dictatorship.

    (Hi there Yoni!)

  43. Of course, you are reporting from CAABU and about Finkelstein, but still… their deranged bleatings are from another world.

    Israel stays in Ghajar – bad because Israel does not comply with the the UN resolution

    Israel leaves Ghajar – bad. Zionist plot to comply with the UN resolution

    Israel calls for the UN to enforce its own resolution about Hezbollah – bad. The UN should only enforce resolutions condemning Israel

    Sanctions (BDS) against Israel – good

    Sanctions against Lebanon to get them to do something about a massive terrorist group – bad.

    Hezbollah kidnaps Israeli soldiers in June – good idea.

    Israel responds in June – that’s because June is “favourite month for raining death on neighbouring Arab countries”. Like on October 6th, 1973.

    It is really sickening to see this stuff spouted across the world.

  44. Hezbullah, besides representing a Levantine branch of the Iranian Revolution, possess a genocidal ideology which seeks not just Israel’s destruction but the killing of Jews everywhere.

    So let’s apply the Horowitz test to Gert and the other anti Zionists on this blog.

    Are you for or against Hezbullah’s ideology?

  45. “Zionist plot to comply with the UN resolution”
    As was Israel’s evacuation of the Gaza strip. It was a dastardly plot by the fiendish Zionists.

  46. Silke you have a talent for attracting low-lifes from the low countries. ;o)

    • aparatchik
      I’ve noticed it also ;-)
      and let me confess that I let it happen intentionally. Long years in corporate Germany have taught me that there is a certain kind of men who loses it when a woman seems not to know her place and since the internet frees one so wonderfully from physical bullying I am indulging myself.

      Combine that with the in my age group and apparently later on also dominant conviction that Germans of whatever age have “bad blood” or DNA in today’s parlance and the preconditions are promising.

      Betting on these reactions is one of the reasons I am so forthcoming with certain of my personal data.

  47. Thanks Silke, I’m feeling stronger today.

    Regarding literature, I’m currently writing about Max Schmeling. Any reminiscences?

  48. I remember that Schmeling was somebody adults seemed to be exceedingly proud of. Looking back I’d guess that they couldn’t quite believe their own “wir haben nichts gewußt” (we knew nothing) and thus concentrated very much on those few celebrities with comparatively untainted histories.
    And Wikipedia has it that as far as Schmeling was concerned they weren’t all that wrong about him which I didn’t know. Their interest in celebrities always remained rather baffling to me.
    He was married to Anny Ondra and there was a lot about that marriage also, which I can’t remember, it probably was kind of prince and princess stuff, but both were talked about a lot I guess all in the vein of their trying to convince themselves that there was or had been a decent German or Germany also.

    Today, however, I wonder how much Schmeling’s original celebrity was enhanced by the fact that he won against a black man and thus possibly unintentionally helped bolster the Aryan mania.

  49. Err … getting knocked out by Joe Louis in the first round couldn’t have done a lot to bolster Aryan mania :)

  50. Yoni
    this is the date my forebears remembered:

    19. Juni 1936

    the Aryan mind works very selectively ;-)
    now what other minds does that remind me of?

  51. Not only did Max Schmeling help save the lives of Jewish children during the Nazi period, at an obvious personal risk, but he kept the matter a secret even after the war, when it would have been of great help had he publicized it. He refused to see himself as a hero, but considered that any decent person would have done the same thing. were that it were so!

    It was often said that Joe Louis was a “credit to his race”. So was Max Schmeling, his race was the human race.

    Barmy Bridlington bloggers, take note.

    • Daniel

      would have been of great help, had he publicized it??????

      great help with whom?
      with the German public, assuming that he continued to live in Germany because he wanted to? I doubt it.

      My memory says our respect for people who acted decently during the “3rd Reich” is a pretty recent development, 3 decades maybe? too late for Schmeling and it would have probably been bad for business. At least I don’t remember having ever heard anything like that mentioned – I only learned about it, when I looked up Wikipedia to confirm my memories.

      I have been told once that children surviving the bombing of the Arcona http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona_(1927)#Sinking
      were taken in by families in the region but the fact that they were Jewish was kept secret.

  52. “…would have been of great help, had he publicized it??????
    great help with whom?”

    With Jews who practically owned the world of boxing. I added “practically” as not to sound antisemitic.

    This was a time when he hadn’t made his millions yet, and was forced back into the ring just to put food on the table.

    So much for us Jews being a light unto nation!? You have wonderful goyim like Max Schmeling and scumbag Jews like Norman What’s’his’name.

    Makes ye wonder silke, makes ye wonder!?

  53. there’s Carl Zuckmayer of Devil’s General fame who at the end of his memoirs quotes his house keeper as saying (I paraphrase)

    “there are decent people and not so decent ones. And when the going gets rough the decent ones become a little more decent.”

    I often wonder whether the Normans of this world are not just frightened completely out of their wit/mind.
    Even if life and love of history books hadn’t made be biased I am pretty sure I couldn’t make sense out of their rantings. To have to live the life of a hater must be terrible.

  54. “too late for Schmeling”

    Hardly. He died in 2005 aged 99, having had a good life as he deserved. He was also a loyal friend to Joe Louis.

  55. Isn’t it just a teeny bit racist to demand that Jews be ‘a light unto the nations’? Jews are people, some are saints, some are evil, most are somewhere in the middle.
    I suspect that most of the ones we discuss here as being evil are very, very sick, literally.

  56. Hi Yoni!

    “Isn’t it just a teeny bit racist to demand that Jews be ‘a light unto the nations’?”

    No, not even a teeny weeny bit. That is our mission, our purpose and are reason for being. Regarding your saying:

    “Jews are people, some are saints, some are evil, most are somewhere in the middle.”

    I couldn’t agree more. Plenty of lousy Jews, plenty of wonderful goyim. In fact, that was how the discussion began. Max and Norman.

    By the way when you said, “very sick, literally” – I think you meant metaphorically.

    HH

  57. “That is our mission, our purpose and are reason for being.”
    OK, I agree: that is not a teensy bit racist. It’s entirely, pathologically and comprehensively racist.

    “By the way when you said, “very sick, literally” – I think you meant metaphorically.”
    Oh, dear. No, I meant that many of these people are literally sick, as in ‘mentally ill’.

  58. Yoni being a “Light unto nations” in Hebrew אור לגויים is not my own, original idea. It comes from the most basic of Judeo-Christian sources, the Bible.

    … I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.” – Isaiah 49 (King James Version)

    Racism, on the other hand, arrived on the stage of history about 3,000 years later and is defined by Wikipedia as:

    “… the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.”

    Read the Bible, read Wikipedia, read something…. before you spout ignorant vanities about a text that is sacred to a large part of mankind.

    Oh, if you’re already at the library, you may want to read a little about mental health too.

  59. I know a lot more about mental health than you do. Please seek help, you need it. I say this out of kindness.
    You are the pathetic ignoramus. I have studied the Bible from cover to cover in Hebrew AND in English. Don’t project your own failings on others, and don’t spout ignorant bilge about people you know sweet Fanny Adams about.
    Or La-goyim, for people who have managed to crawl out of the Dark Ages (which you evidently have not), does NOT mean screeching “That is our mission, our purpose and are [sic] reason for being.” That’s the sort of thing that was shouted at the Nuremberg rallies. Now go away and ponder on’t, if your few brain cells can manage it.

  60. Yoni and Daniel

    guys please stop it – you are talking past eachother – believe me, you do

    you are on the same side !!! actually as far as I have learned to date Yoni is pretty close to the “let’s throw the paint” part of the spectrum.

    In case it proves anything I am a respect demanding agnostic and Daniel is a respect demanding believer and until today we get along fine.

  61. Okay, so let’s all calm down. I wrote:

    “So much for us Jews being a light unto nation!? You have wonderful goyim like Max Schmeling and scumbag Jews like Norman What’s’his’name.” and you jumped in with:

    “Isn’t it just a teeny bit racist to demand that Jews be ‘a light unto the nations’?”

    You had labeled the very idea of Israel as a light unto nations “racist”. Clearly you had no idea that this very well known phrase was Biblical in source, or you think the book of Isaiah is a racist document. Which is it?

    It must be much easier to write childish little insults than to answer that question for that reason I shall be quite polite and bring you back to the question.

    Is it racist to demand of Israel to be a light unto nations or not?

    C’mon Yoni, bet you’ll avoid the question.

  62. Yes, little useless prats like you always ‘bet’ that someone will ‘avoid the question’. And little useless prats like you always lose.

    “Clearly you had no idea that this very well known phrase was Biblical in source” – and this, after I’d told you that I’d studies the Bible cover to cover in the original Hebrew (and Aramaic, with a degree of difficulty, where relevant). Reading comprehension problems, darling?

    In Isaiah’s times, ideas were different. Also, we can’t talk to him to elucidate his exact meaning. They came down through a late filter. But I have no problem postulating that perhaps it was, in modern terms, racist.

    At any rate, your interpretation of it most certainly is. Insisting that a nation qua nation has a ‘mission’ (which in any case is a Christian proselytising concept, not a Jewish one) and a ‘purpose’ and ‘our reason for being’ is fundamentally racist. It subjugates the individual to the idea of Volk with a Lebenszweck. Pure Nuremberg.

    Silke: with the greatest respect, this is an argument between two Jews, and I don’t really think it’s for you to tell us to stop.

  63. Yoni

    with all due respect –
    when Nuremberg is brought up I consider myself involved as an expert as I was brought up by elders who had been deeply influenced by that BS.

    To the best of my knowledge Lebenszweck is not a term that has been especially usurped by Nazis but rather by this guy

    Der ideale Lebenszweck ist Borstenvieh and Schweinespeck.

    could it be that you mixed up Lebenszweck with “Lebensraum”?

  64. No, Silke, I was translating ‘mission’ and ‘purpose in life’. Lebensraum could not possibly be anything to do with that.
    And no, you are not an expert on what ‘light onto the nations’ might mean in Judaism.

  65. “Silke: with the greatest respect, this is an argument between two Jews” –

    Now that’s racist. The poor shiksa is incapable of comprehending our sophisticated Jewish dialectics and has no right to an opinion on the matter. How dare you?

    Isaiah belongs to the whole world, Jew and non-Jew alike. How dare you?

    Silke has understanding and wisdom than most people I know and is as entitled to her opinion as you or I. How dare you?

    I apologize for my racist little friend Silke. Oh, and beware of the hypocrites who start off with “the greatest respect”.

    Thanks for your elucidation:

    “In Isaiah’s times, ideas were different. Also, we can’t talk to him to elucidate his exact meaning….” Must be all that Aramaic confusing you. You really have shown yourself to be a scholar.

    “In Isaiah’s times, ideas were different..” This was G-d (through his prophet) talking about the “End of Days”. talking to every generation, not writing a TV guide. We’re 2,000 years closer to them than Isaiah was.”

    “…we can’t talk to him to elucidate his exact meaning..” – That’s what a Rashi, the Radak, the Neziv, Rabi Nachman, Samet and all the thousands of other commentators are there for. Find me any Jewish commentator, any rabbi, Orthodox, Reform, whatever you like in 2,000 years who has said that Israel being a light unto nations is “just a teeny bit racist” Still stand behind that one Yoni?

    Now back to the question:

    Is it racist to demand of Israel to be a light unto nations or not?

  66. I called your proposition racist. You are calling me racist. You are a dumb, pathetic little turd.

    I am an atheist. I am not interested in an appeal to authority, whether god, rashi or whoever.

    I answered your question. You are too thick to understand my answer. Just bugger off.

  67. Silke, my comment to you was factual, with no personal or racist overtones . This ghastly little shit DM, in his screeching and bile-dripping personal attack on me (typical of medieval racist religious fundamentalist maniacs), has tried to present it as racist. That just shows him up as having a sewer-like mind.

    • Yoni
      no offence taken, I still like you very much, disagreement on Daniel notwithstanding –
      Have you read his “we threw the paint” text?
      there I am having my qualms with him, but I guess you, as I have read you to date, will get brotherly feelings for him.

  68. Yup, you Aramaic-reading, Nuremberg-citing, Bible-understanding, gentile-excluding, metaphor-confusing self-abusing atheist. Of course you’ve answered my question.

    However, for those of us are too “thick” to understand – remind me again. What was your answer?

    Is it racist to demand of Israel to be a light unto nations or not? Yes or no.

    • I think it would behove every citizen of every state, every member of every club or organisation or group or family really well to demand of the body to be a light unto its kind and to bolster the demand by really trying hard in demanding it most of all of his/herself.

      (assuming that being a light means roughly to follow a code of ethics like those in the ten commandments)

  69. Daniel;

    I cannot stand any more this! Why was you laughing at Yoni? Nobody is thinking that Jews are lighting for nations any more.

    Every time a person was against the Jews you are attacking him because you are thinking it might be he is right.

    Yoni;

    You must to be very strong and not to afraid of Daniel or another Zionists, ok?

    All the best,

    Gamil

    • Hi Gamil – long time no see – glad to read you again

      how are the camels doing?
      btw I never asked: do you breed them also? and when is their lambing season or how is it called with them?
      oh and recently there was a very interesting piece on camel urine. Are you in that business also? if yes I hope that profits are great. Later it came up that it is also good as an eye-wash that just in case you know somebody who has those kinds of problems.

      http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/11/saudi-scientists-camel-urine-fights.html

  70. Yup Silke, that’s exactly what it means. Not bad for a Shikse (;

    By the way, nice usage of “behove” or should I say “behōfian”?

  71. “behöfian” – is Old English, if I get it right – sorry there I have a total void of knowledge

    http://books.google.de/books?id=9_X44k9-3j8C&pg=PA261&lpg=PA261&dq=behöfian&source=bl&ots=ZOWU0Ombgh&sig=Ndz8ECbHhEGirm4oVYJQRkr7P30&hl=de&ei=4pT3TMLwBMWy8gPyhfj4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=behöfian&f=false

    in German using a similar style of language I would have expressed it as

    “es steht jedem wohl an” –
    which in more modern parlance relates to “Anstand” which translates as decency but is also used for good behaviour/manners.

  72. as to shiksas – next summer I’ll be 69 but that will not deter me from sporting this shirt

    http://www.printfection.com/elderofziyon/Shiksa-Womens-Fitted-Cap-Sleeve-Tee/_p_5375244

  73. Funny that you applauded at the end of the talk, Richard…

  74. Hi Silke,

    It is quite enchanting, doubtless as its wearer, whom I am certain is adored by scores of like-minded 69+ gentlemen.

    Hi Gamil,

    Yes, I think you’ll get on well with Yoni. After all, youn profess a certain expertise in the area of camel dung.

    Talking of German, Aramaic, Hebrew scholars…..Funny how I never did get that answer from Yoni. Quite a simple question really. I had asked:

    “Is it racist to demand of Israel to be a light unto nations or not? Yes or no.”

  75. Hi Yoni,
    These threads can be irritatingly long for an addled brain such as mine to digest.

    However, though I am sure you are one of the good guys, I was surprised by your poor choice of phrase when addressing Silke:

    “Silke: with the greatest respect, this is an argument between two Jews, and I don’t really think it’s for you to tell us to stop.”

    It reminded me of David Brent thinking that Black racist jokes could never offend whites.

    Though I am sure you had no ill intent, I think it best you just apologize and we all move on.

    And I also think you went totally askew with your “light unto nations = racism” equation.
    It is about as racist as England claiming they could stage the best world cup.

    Yep, we all get a bit loopy from time to time – and you just lost the plot a bit on that one.

  76. DM: which part of “It’s entirely, pathologically and comprehensively racist”, which I stated quite a few posts back, are you struggling with, camel brain?
    And no, I am not ‘self-abusing’, you ridiculous screeching religious maniac.

    Gamil: I am not ‘afraid of Jews and Zionists': I am a Jew and a Zionist.

    Silke: Thanks. No, I don’t know what you mean by Threw the Paint text.
    And yes, individuals should try to behave ethically as individuals, not because they are part of nation X.

    Nick: it’s none of your business whether or not I apologise to Silke. I have nothing to apologise for. And you are the one who’s lost the plot, as it happens.

  77. Yoni

    We threw the Paint is a piece Daniel wrote:

    http://www.google.de/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22we+threw+the+paint%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=4sX3TK7OIMjBswbC093ZCA

    and to y’all please remember that the left in 30s Germany was more interested in discussing their differences in a way that made uniting really hard to impossible for the street fights the Nazis imposed on them. Being able to pick off individual groups one by one helped the Nazis really fine and probably increased the body count for communists and socialists considerably while decreasing the one for the thugs.

  78. Thanks.
    “By doing so, they … RIGHTLY [my emphasis - Y.] earn the respect of many undecided members of the public”
    This is utter drivel, of course. It equates the fight for universal suffrage with an antisemitic and utterly thuggish campaign to destroy the Jewish nation in its historic homeland. If that is ‘rightly’ something that earns respect, then the Nazi thugs of Kristallnacht also ‘rightly’ earned respect.

  79. PS. I don’t think the fight against antisemitism requires me or anyone else to shut up and not criticise other people for promoting medieval religious and racial fundamentalism. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

  80. Yoni
    I haven’t asked neither of you to shut up, quite the contrary …
    I just wish you being from my far away observation point on the same side would keep that part of a possible united action operationable.

  81. Hmm … “guys please stop it” …

    “you are talking past eachother – believe me, you do” – well, that’s simply not the case. There is a fundamental division between those who are Bible-literalists and medieval religious fundamentalists, and those who are not. That’s essentially what the dispute focused on.

  82. I missed out this bit when editing: “It’s not a pseudo-distinction”.

  83. Yoni
    the discussion you describe above sounds extremely interesting even to an outsider and if I’d barge in it would be to ask questions, but once you start throwing around Nuremberg it becomes something different and that something different quite frankly makes me cry especially when it happens between two devoted lovers and defenders of Israel.

  84. Well, I wasn’t ‘throwing it around’, Silke. Believe me, I don’t use this sort of thing just for effect (verbum sap). I meant it quite specifically. The idea put forward, namely ‘this is our purpose of being’, is frightening to me exactly in the same way that Ein Volk! etc is frightening.

  85. Daniel – Yoni is Right!!

    To saying, ‘this is our purpose of being’ is very racialist. Yoni is the proud athiestic without any ‘purpose of being’. He is my brother!

    Also he is saying that he was a “Jew and a Zionist” because maybe is fearing some Zionistic entities like the BZF or BBC. I am knowing the truth!!

    Silke,

    Hello I am fine, camels also very fine. You are writing;

    “I hope that profits are great..” This is blasfhemy in Islamic because there is only one profit and he’s name is Mohammed. I am too likeing you’re shirt!

    All the best,

    Gamil

  86. “Nick: it’s none of your business whether or not I apologise to Silke.”-

    Here was Nick thinking that being Jewish, he’d be allowed to express his opinion. However, it transpires that Silke is forbidden from discussing “..argument between two Jews” because she’s a gentile, while Nick is barred from discussing possible apologies to Silke, doubtlessly because he’s a Jew.

    Interestingly, the only individual licenses to talk about all subjects is Yoni. Yes, there’s method to his madness!

    In the interests of peace and free speech I add my voice to the many others that have called for our renowned Aramaic scholar to apologize for his shockingly racist statement.

    I for my part harbor no grudges for anything that the lad said about me. He was clearly upset and in a moment of confusion took out his little fellow and sprayed it in all directions, Silke, Nick, Gamil, myself. At least I know I am in good company.

    Now it really is time to look to the future and to move on!

  87. “Nick is barred from discussing possible apologies to Silke, doubtlessly because he’s a Jew”

    You really are one thick individual, aren’t you? Two short planks are simply not in the game when you are around.
    I have no idea whether Nick is Jewish, Navajo or Tibetan. He wasn’t involved in the discussion. My comments weren’t addressed to him. It’s none of his business whether or not I need to apologise to a third party to whom I did address my comments.
    You, of course, are the racist individual who thinks he can and should apologise on behalf of someone else simply because he happens to be a member of the same nation. Look up ‘arrogance’ and ‘hubris’, you are the epitome of them.

  88. Gamil, what exactly are you on? You may need to decrease the dosage.

  89. Silke,

    I’ve never questioned your judgement, but could you please explain to me which virtues you find in this character.

    Everyone has been very patient and understanding with him, but now he seems quite out of control. Just read his last gem. He’s even having a go at poor old Gamil who’s ideologically on his side.

    Okay, I’m off to bed. Goodnight guys!

  90. Daniel
    Yoni and I have been co-combatants vis-a-vis our Belgian friend before you and Nick showed up. He was pretty good at it, I found his non-nonsense style appealing.

    But as to another matter, you have disappointed me, I had hoped I’d get some support from you in investigating whether Gamil is involved in the recent discoveries of the benefits of camel urine. Also I’d really like to know, whether there is a special name for a baby camel, like calf, lamb, puppy, kitten etc.

    Also I am beginning to suspect that Gamil is a fake, because he says profit is bad. I have just been told in some radio pieces that Mohammed was quite a good merchant and a merchant who doesn’t make a profit, can’t be a good one i.e. he won’t have the means to finance his next caravan. Also I have learned that he was first married to a very rich merchant woman whom he loved very much. Now how could she have gotten rich without making a profit. Could it be that our dear Gamil is mixing a maybe previous communist conviction in with his new-found faith – or the other way around?

    BTW did you know that oriental chess figures didn’t or don’t have a Queen, with them it is an advisor to the king i.e. an all male population on the board?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/LcdERPxmQ_a2npYstOwVkA

  91. Silke,

    Have to go to synagogue in a minute. Such is the day of a “medieval religious fundamentalist”.

    1. Regarding Yoni, if you’re vouching for him, I accept your judgement. To me he seems a total nutter, but I’m no psychiatrist.

    2. I have my doubts about Gamil too. Besides everything else he is quite inconsistent in his opinions. However, in this case I think you misunderstood. When he said:

    “This is blasfhemy in Islamic because there is only one profit and he’s name is Mohammed.” – I believe it likely that he was confusing prophets with profits.

    3. I have no first-hand knowledge of camel urine and have no intention of googling it, however, like everybody else, I have heard of camel milk’s use as a laxative. Before anyone asks, it is not kosher.

  92. Danny why are you wasting your time on an ignorant jerk the likes of Yoni. He’s got nothing to say, he’s incapable of apologising as he doesn’t even recognise his own racism. And he’ll never answer your question.

    Nick is so right. It’s time to move on.

  93. at best Yoni made a remark that with a lot of admirable logic artistry can be labelled racist. That doesn’t make him a racist …

    It only signifies that there are people commenting here who know what their grey cells are meant to be used for

  94. If it looks like a duck, and waddless like a duck…

  95. … and Kathy is a duck all right. Certainly has the brain of one. No offence to ducks is intended.

    DM can’t even aspire to the brain of a duck, since he thinks Gamil and I are on the same side. Gamil, who thinks the BBC is ‘Zionist’.

    Silke: thanks, we are of one mind on most things.

  96. Oh for G-d’s sake Yoni. Watch the news! 41 Israelis are being buried, thousands of dunam of land are blazing, hundreds of thousands of trees, Israel’s greatests ever ecological disaster and you carry with your petty squabbles with half of humanity, and now ducks!

    Today is really not the day.

    Listen to Nick, a far wiser man than you, and just move on!

  97. my latest news is that there are arsonists starting other fires –

    lets hope it is not the latest from the Jihadists’ coffer of blood shedding.

    and for me a very welcome first – the Israeli embassy told in its newsletter that shortly Germans will be able to donate via this website (incredible enough the Zentralrat der Juden doesn’t even mention the disaster on its website, let alone provide a link to a site where one could donate.

    http://www.jnf-kkl.de/

  98. Go fuck yourself, DM. You are the one proloning this discussion.

  99. Hi Silke,

    As you can imagine, at this time the main focus is on putting out the fire and taking care of those who need help. Netanyahu seems to be everywhere, all the time and though I’ve never voted for him, there’s nobody we’re rather have as our prime minister today. Many countries have helped in a wonderful way, especially Russia. My two daughters are going up north tomorrow to volunteer.

    It’s a terrible moment for the Jewish people, but it;s at times like this that everyone helps each other and opens their hearts and their houses. Such a spirit of caring and brotherly love provide a stark contrast to the idiotic posting of 3:23pm. I guess it takes all kinds.

    Please G-d may the planes that fly in our skies put out all the fires, except for that of our love and hope for peace.

    Happy Hanukkah

    Daniel

  100. Daniel
    take care and be sure that whatever I can spare from my year end bonus (which alas sounds more grandiose than it will turn out to be) will find its way into Israel’s pockets.
    They offer us as tax exempt Jewish National Fund –
    Friends of Magen David Adom in German don’t mention taxes.
    Taxes not being any big deal for me anymore but maybe for others –
    Do you have any other suggestions? I should/could maybe spread around?

    There is also the Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Austria which they say is trustworthy.

    May whatever is good in this world watch over your daughters and protect them, body, mind and soul.

    and I am glad that Netanyahu is performing well – it is important, really important, let’s hope he can keep it up, the strain must be terrible.
    could it be that love of country now shows itself through all the showmanship? He struck me as a loving one when he gave his outrage speech at the UN.

  101. Yes Daniel,
    On the festival of lights, our country is ablaze. We hurt and we mourn. We shake our heads in disbelief at the fact that we were we so poorly prepared?

    Reading between the lines of Yoni’s childish assaults on Silke, Daniel, myself and on the shapely Kathy Olsson, and piecing together his smatterings of Aramaic self-indulgence, you cannot fail to recognize the emergence of an embryonic conciliatory tone in his rants, or notice a glint of remorse which in some way mitigates his perverse tongue.

    It takes a real man to come off his high horse and ask for forgiveness. Such a man is Yoni. So when Yoni performs this gallant act, it should be received in the same dignified manner in which it was offered. As such, mental health conditions should not be allured to – and even vague, non-descript terms such as “disturbed” should best be avoided.

    We can ironically draw on the ancient-Aramaic saying: “The village idiot has no aspirations of becoming the court jester – that’s why he’s an idiot.”

  102. Nick
    no matter how well prepared one is, a desaster of this magnitude combined and enhanced by random arsonist thugs can’t be prepared for. I learned though that the evacuation organisation worked well excepting of course the terrible death of the prison guards.

    As I keep preaching, now is the time for stopping the damage, afterwards there will be ample time to evaluate what worked well and what didn’t and then keep in mind that whatever measures will be taken they will only be a preparation for fighting the last desaster. Mind you, if firefighters feel now is the time to vent, my heart is with them. Everybody who lets of steam under such duress should meet with understanding and a short memory.
    (I performed as a waitress for the firefighters for 3 days when a major fire reduced the biggest cow and pig stable in the village to rubble. The men working on it were so high on adrenalin or whatever as to be almost out of their senses.)

    This one here says the same, only better than I am able to:

    A few days down the road we’ll all start talking about levels of preparedness and lack of it. Our airwaves are already full of the first versions, but they seem to me informed by excitement, not by information. So I”ll refrain, for the time being.

    http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2010/12/fire-on-carmel.html?showComment=1291384072545#c1598796246985935867

  103. Silke,
    Arsonist thugs – yes. Random – definitely not!

    Nick,

    After contemplating your insightful words I reread the short, now infamous, 3:23 posting in an initially fruitless attempt to unearth the request for forgiveness that you urged me to accept. The posting was short, though not inarticulate:

    ” Go fuck yourself, DM. You are the one proloning this discussion.”
    Our best guess would have to be that the author’s intent was to say “prolonging” but we shall return to the latter part of the posting. First the writer’s:

    “Go fuck yourself, DM.”

    I am not certain whether the suggestion is physiologically feasible even for the very athletic and agile. I am neither of these, and with my progressing years find much less demanding chores like climbing the stairs or carrying the shopping somewhat challenging. Neither does the idea of having sexual intercourse have any erotic appeal, though it might have been a useful skill in my younger years during those long, lonely nights of guard duty.

    Finally, I would imagine that such an act would have a greater appeal to someone less heterosexual than myself. I have nothing (other than halachah) against homosexuality, but neither have I ever had sex or wanted to have sex with a man, and were I to begin, I doubt that I would be my first male partner.

    However, reading between the lines, I did begin to understand what you meant by a “glint of remorse”. It was you who has taught me to understand a man not by what he says, but by what he doesn’t. Exactly here is where we must find hope. No longer was there any repetition of the early racism or general stupidity and ignorance. There was no vain bragging about Biblical expertise, and no claims to be a fluent Aramaic linguist. Just a simple, if unachievable, suggestion, albeit of a sexual nature, and in the final analysis quite harmless.

    Yes, I shall happily forgive Yoni with the same grace and charity as Silke and Nick already have. Furthermore, I urge Gamil and the lovely Kathy to do the same. Tomorrow is another day and there truly is no reason to further prolong (or even prolon) this discussion. Let us all move on and pray to G-d for a better Sunday!

  104. Daniel and Nick
    I suggest you scroll through this thread

    http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/memo-mcb-and-richard-falk-eviscerate-israel/

    and ctrl-F for Yoni and I promise you that you’ll find a valiant guy going for the between-jobs idiot and another possibly even more salivating for the blood of you-know-whose named Yossi.

    What it is about believers in God or Atheism that they prefer to go for eachothers’ throats to almost everything else eludes me.

    There are so many more deserving and rewarding throats to go for.

  105. oops I forgot

    since “random” seems to be the wrong word …
    here’s what I wanted to say:
    I imagine them roaming wherever the fancy takes them and wherever they see a promising shrub they do their arsoning i.e. I assumed that they weren’t working by a map, but come to think of it, why not?
    but then they would either have had to investigate the area for planning purposes and/or have gotten instructions from locals which would mean that the instructing locals are completely out of their mind, since a fire can so easily do the most unexpected things.

  106. Dearest Silke,

    “I promise you that you’ll find a valiant guy..”

    Look, like they say, to each their own. I have read a little and it seems more battle by attrition than anything else. His writing is quite void of literary style and he can neither spell nor use construct anything but the most basic of grammatical forms. I suppose this might be excused by the fact that his first language is apparently ancient Aramaic.

    In terms of content, it’s mainly a question of calling people what he thinks they called him. A case in point being his misapprehension that Kathy Olsson had said that he was a duck, so he quickly retorted:

    “..and Kathy is a duck alright..”

    Thankfully, this is the kind of grade school tit-for-tat dialectic that we have been able to persuade the youngest of our offspring to avoid.

    His information is for the most part “Googled” and though he boasts expertise in an assortment of diverse disciplines and languages, he seldom demonstrates any real knowledge, not to mention originality.

    Finally, his ability to comprehend written texts must be called into question, one example being his belief that I had expressed support for the anti-Israel hooligans in the “I Threw the Paint” posting. Initially, I had thought he was twisting my words, but on further reading I realized that he lacked the simple tool of inference. He really believed that that was what I had meant.

    I fully concur that we should all be focusing our creative energies on the Gerts of this world, and have thus accepted the apology, for what it was, and agreed that we should all move on.