Cameron needs to take stock about Islamic fundamentalism

Cameron (L.) meeting Erdogan (Sky News)

Cameron (L.) meeting Erdogan (Sky News)

Now we know. David Cameron is not a Zionist, although he once proclaimed that he was.

To be a Zionist is not only to believe in the right for Israel to exist as a Jewish state but also in its right to defend itself properly.

While Cameron recognises that it is right for British soldiers to fight the Afghanistan Taliban he does not seem to accord the same right to Israeli soldiers when fighting Islamist elements.

In his meeting with Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey he spoke of Israel’s attack on the Mavi Marmara as being “totally unacceptable” and referred to Gaza as being a prison camp.

This meeting came one day after the report from Wikileaks that details not only the brutality of the Taliban towards the innocent Afghani population but also the many civilian casualties among the Afghani population caused by NATO troops.

The Wikileaks report is the basis for the investigation of war crimes on a huge scale. But while Israel has been investigated for war crimes in Gaza and found guilty it is unlikely that NATO countries will be similarly investigated and found guilty for the many civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

The Wikileaks report also details NATO’s targeted assassinations of Taliban leaders either by drones operated from the Nevada desert or by secret “kill-or-capture squads”. But when Israel allegedly does the same there is worldwide condemnation followed by the expulsion of Israeli diplomats. The feeble excuse given being that British or Australian passports had been misused.

More depressingly Cameron called for Turkey’s accession to the EU. This would allow possibly hundreds of thousands of Islamists access to the UK.

Before he became Prime Minister Cameron promised to crack down on Muslim fundamentalism in the UK and especially at our universities. This included the banning of the Islamist group Hiz but-Tahrir.

But Turkey’s accession to the EU would make the kind of occurrence that took place in Golders Green, a predominantly Jewish suburb of North-West London, last Monday more ubiquitous.

Two youths on bikes approached a car with Jewish kippah-wearing teenagers in it. They yelled Alluah Akbar (G-d is Great) at the Jewish teenagers, who got out to remonstrate. The Jewish teenagers were then chased through Golders Green.

One of the youths, who was black, went to grab a bottle of drink from a shop and smashed it over the head of one of the Jewish teenagers. Blood poured from the wound.

Then the other youth cried “Algeria, Algeria F*ck the Jews” before both youths cycled off at speed.

The Jewish teenager was taken to hospital to have his wound and arm tended to.

This support for Turkey’s accession under Erdogan’s Islamist AK party does not accord with Cameron’s desire to crack down on Muslim fundamentalism in the UK. It would surely be better to wait till after next year’s general election in Turkey when the opposition secular party, CHP, might well take power. Even then it would be difficult to keep tabs on Turkish Islamists. EU regulations would allow Turkish citizens take up residence in the UK.

And while Cameron may still seek to crack down on Muslim fundamentalism in the UK, although there is no sign of that so far, other mainstream organisations have no such agenda.

On the BBC there was a recent televised debate about Afghanistan: Are British soldiers are dying in vain?

One of the panellists was from the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC) who agreed with the motion. The potential disastrous effects of British troops withdrawing from Afganistan seemed totally irrelevant to him including the dreadful oppression of women and homosexuals that would follow.

MPAC is itself a nasty organisation. It gets heavily involved in British general election and labels MPs as “Zionists” if they are in the least supportive of Israel. In 2005 it claimed one MP was Jewish when she wasn’t and she duly lost her seat.

MPAC recently ran a poll asking whether Israel should be moved to America. Farcical stuff but this is who the BBC thinks reflects the views of the British Muslim community, sadly. There are other more mainstream Muslim organisations like the Quilliam Foundation who hardly get a look in such debates.

It is to be seen whether Cameron’s speech in support of Turkey marks an Obama-esque change of attitude to Israel from the previous far more favourable Blair and Brown administrations.

After mocking him pre-election Cameron has now become close friends with Nick Clegg, his deputy Prime-Minister in the Con-Lib coalition. And we know that Clegg doesn’t seem to care about Israel’s security in the slightest after he called for a ban on the sale of weapons to Israel.

Cameron needs to take stock and reflect on his pre-election promises. If he doesn’t then what took place in Golders Green could become more common.

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71 responses to “Cameron needs to take stock about Islamic fundamentalism

  1. modernityblog

    Much more subtle than my post on this very topic :)

    Cameron is looking for allies, ANY allies…he’s not too fussy, and in the process he’ll do whatever he thinks is in HIS best interest, including sucking up to the Turkish PM….

  2. Richard Tebboth

    “Cast out first the beam which is thine own eye”

    There are extremists and fundamentalists on both sides of this debate.

    Time for some traditional British compromise.

    Perhaps Dave was floating an idea agreed in his conversations with BO in Washington last week.

    It is also reported that BN is prepared to cooperate with the UNHCR enquiry into the flotilla incident.

    “Jaw, jaw is always better [and considerably cheaper] than war, war.

    Pax vobiscum

  3. modernityblog

    Given Cameron’s performance, I wonder if he feels like stopping off in Syria, to congratulate them for their openness, or commending the Saudi Royal family for being the bastion of democracy that they are!

    More likely Cameron will pop over to China and applaud their attitude towards freedom and human rights….

  4. Jonathan Hoffman

    Cameron never says anything which does not go down well with focus groups.

    As one who campaigned for the Conservatives these idiotic comments are particularly disturbing, though I still think the Conservatives offer a better deal for Israel than Labour. Eg they are committed to sorting out Universal Jurisdiction.

    Please write to your MP to protest at Cameron’s crassness.

  5. While Cameron recognises that it is right for British soldiers to fight the Afghanistan Taliban he does not seem to accord the same right to Israeli soldiers when fighting Islamist elements.

    There’s that ridiculous comparison again: Hamas ≈ Taleban, al Qaeda. You just can’t help yourself…

    In his meeting with Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey he spoke of Israel’s attack on the Mavi Marmara as being “totally unacceptable” and referred to Gaza as being a prison camp.

    The man was plain right for once. Well, twice. Kudos.

    But while Israel has been investigated for war crimes in Gaza and found guilty it is unlikely that NATO countries will be similarly investigated and found guilty for the many civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

    Ridiculous. NATO’s killing of innocent civilians has been scrutinised with a microscope. None of these crimes are being denied in any way, shape or form. But what happend to Goldstone? He got smeared into the ground…

    The Wikileaks report also details NATO’s targeted assassinations of Taliban leaders either by drones operated from the Nevada desert or by secret “kill-or-capture squads”. But when Israel allegedly does the same there is worldwide condemnation followed by the expulsion of Israeli diplomats.

    So Richard, are you gonna condemn Israel’s sugar daddy? ‘Bite’ and ‘hand that feeds you’, spring to mind.

    More depressingly Cameron called for Turkey’s accession to the EU. This would allow possibly hundreds of thousands of Islamists access to the UK.

    They already have that right. There are many Turks in Britain. Turkey’s ascension into the EU does not depend on the Jewish youth of Golders Green. To oppose Turkish ascension into the UK on the grounds that it could cause antisemitism is an affront to the Turks and deeply racist.

    On the BBC there was a recent televised debate about Afghanistan: Are British soldiers are dying in vain?

    One of the panellists was from the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC) who agreed with the motion.

    Many agree with that motion, including me. In Britain and the US our numbers are strongly on the rise. The Canadians and the Dutch are pulling out. Many including me, totally honestly, believe the Afghan adventure is bad for British National security. Hardly an extremist position to take. Careful you’re not left behind now…

    MPAC is itself a nasty organisation. It gets heavily involved in British general election and labels MPs as “Zionists” if they are in the least supportive of Israel.

    Shock, horror: they call Israel’s sympathisers ‘Zionists’. Less nasty I would say than your new best friend ‘Modders, you plonker’ who systematically labels anti-Zionists as antisemites. And who was it that wrote: “David Cameron is not a Zionist, [...]“? Cake and eating it, springs to mind. Are you writing this fluff between the hors d’oeuvres and the main course, a casa Millett?

    And we know that Clegg doesn’t seem to care about Israel’s security in the slightest after he called for a ban on the sale of weapons to Israel.

    More ridiculous hyperbole not worth rebutting.

    “3/10. Richard could do better if he applied himself”

    • Dad is right, of course. That’s why he moved to Britain: because he was appalled that his mother country still was living off the spoils of the Congo, and supporting elements in the Interahamwe.

  6. Hoffie wrote:

    Please write to your MP to protest at Cameron’s crassness.

    Oh, I wouldn’t worry about the letters [of encouragement], they’ve been sent alright ;-)

  7. This has caused some waves in Britzio circles, ‘independent non-zio [cough!] journalist’ Richard Millett has this (link). First the antisemitic Lib Dems (the ‘yellow danger!’), then the coalition (‘antisemites close to the levers of power!’) and now this…

    http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/cameron-needs-to-take-stock-about-islamic-fundamentalism/#comment-2151

  8. As the subject of Afghanistan has been raised let us consider the effect of the recent Wikileaks revelations.
    On 20th July by Baroness Manningham-Buller gave evidence to the Chilcot inquiry on Iraq. She was Director General of the UK Security Service MI5 from 2002 to 2007. She said she had warned what many senior Whitehall officials believed in 2003: that the invasion of Iraq would increase the terrorist threat to the UK.
    More than once, the former head of MI5 emphasised to the Chilcot inquiry that the invasion exacerbated the terrorist threat to the UK and was a “highly significant” factor in how “home-grown” extremists justified their actions.
    “Our involvement in Iraq radicalised a few among a generation of young people who saw [it] as an attack upon Islam,” she said.
    Manningham-Buller said she was therefore not surprised that UK citizens were involved in the 7/7 suicide attacks in London or by the increase in the number of Britons “attracted to the ideology of Osama bin Laden” who saw the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan as threatening their co-religionists and the Muslim world”.
    The invasion of Iraq “undoubtedly” increased the terrorist threat in Britain

  9. There seems to be a Richard who gets it here…

  10. richardmillett

    Cheers, Gert. Nice to know i’ve finally won you over.

  11. I assume, Gert, that you hope Cameron raised the issue of Turkey occupying northern Cyprus (where, surprise surprise, the churches have all been destroyed, turned into mosques or cattle enclosures, and 200,000 Greek swere ethnically cleansed). I am sure you will join me in hoping that Cameron condemned Turkey’s repeated and routine airstrikes on Kurdish villages in northern Iraq, where hundreds of civilians have been killed (no TV pictures – funny, that) whilst assisting Syria militarily in massacring hundreds of Kurds inside Syria (there have also been mass arrests) – happening now – today – not that you would know from the left wing Israel obsessed media.

    I’m sure you’ll join me in condemning these unprovoked actions – won’t you Gert?

    • richardmillett

      Don’t hold your breathe, Adam.

    • Adam:

      You’re a one trick pony. I suggest you read Gabriel Ash’s spoof guide for the mentally impaired “How to make the case for Israel and win” (do read, it’s funny and quite a bit of a bestseller, as far as blog posts go). Your arguments are basically 3. You suck and 4. Everything sucks (I may suck in your eyes but you’re an annoying little twit).

      I take it then that it’s official: ‘Dave’ is an antiseeemiiiite?

      • Dad invites that man from Jews Sans Frontiers around sometimes. He’s called Mr. Elf. Dad lets him into only the hallway, because he doesn’t really like him. He calls him a “cosmopolitan”, but thinks he’s useful.

        Mr. Elf told me he wanted to be a cab driver. I wouldn’t want to get into any of his cabs.

  12. I headed my blog “The Sick Man of Europe”. That can be taken two ways, of course, though given the state of history teaching these days many people might not know it was a term used of Turkey in the 19th century.
    Given Cameron’s ridiculous statement the other day that in 1940 GB was the USA’s “junior partner” against Nazism (the USA didn’t enter the conflict until 1941, and we stood alone after France collapsed) he’s probably one of them.
    He’s an ignoramus on foreign affairs too, it appears. Slimy is the more succinct word.

    • Daphne wrote:

      Given Cameron’s ridiculous statement the other day that in 1940 GB was the USA’s “junior partner” against Nazism (the USA didn’t enter the conflict until 1941, and we stood alone after France collapsed) he’s probably one of them.

      I think the term “junior partner” was apt then as it is now. Despite Britain’s self-promoting mythology of its role in WW II, it too, like all European countries, was rather late in declaring war on Germany. It too assisted inadvertently in building the monster Nazi Germany turned out to be. And while France ‘collapsed’, in 1940 Britain narrowly avoided defeat, thanks primarily to a natural moat called the Channel.

  13. It too assisted inadvertently in building the monster Nazi Germany turned out to be.

    You’ll find, Gert, that there was a lot of advert about it. Baldwin didn’t believe in Baldwin’s disarmament plan.

    Graham Greene’s The Leftenant Died Last (filmed as Went The Day the Well) deals quite well with the idea of a poshie being a Fifth Columnist, which was assumed only to be seen in the French middle-classes (and snivelling Belgian fascists).

    And which all-powerful Nazi war-machine was this? (Unless you meant summat else about “monster”.) The same war-machine which the French couldn’t beat even when they captured it’s war-plans? The same war-machine which French forces cannot beat in Pentagon computer simulations without human intervention frustrating their tactics?

    That war-machine?

  14. Alec:

    Hey, waddayaknow, so you can use your own moniker, instead of the childish ‘Gert’s daughter’ and even try and make a semblance of an argument. I guess it’s progress.

    But not much:

    Graham Greene’s The Leftenant [sic] Died Last (filmed as Went The Day the Well) deals quite well with the idea of a poshie being a Fifth Columnist, which was assumed only to be seen in the French middle-classes (and snivelling Belgian fascists).

    And which all-powerful Nazi war-machine was this? (Unless you meant summat else about “monster”.) The same war-machine which the French couldn’t beat even when they captured it’s [sic] war-plans? The same war-machine which French forces cannot beat in Pentagon computer simulations without human intervention frustrating their tactics?

    Any other works of (undoubtedly excellent) fiction I need to read to understand ‘summat’ about WW II, the role of “the French middle classes and snivelling [sic] Belgian fascists” in the War? Obviously there were no British fascists, oh no…

    As regards your second paragraph (quoted), it’s gibberish. Trying to decipher, I’ll say this: Britain was as ill prepared for WW II as any other European country, no more, no less. If it hadn’t been for la manche the German army would have rolled into South England meeting little resistance.

    • Yes, Dad, you say everyone is childish and you trawl the Internet looking for un-righteous Jews to taunt. Or that time you had a go at the nice Stuart on that Christian blog because he didn’t hate Jews enough.

      My only friends are on the Internet. Sometimes I use their computers.

      I want Mum!

      • Alec:

        Yes, Dad, you say everyone is childish and you trawl the Internet looking for un-righteous Jews to taunt. Or that time you had a go at the nice Stuart on that Christian blog because he didn’t hate Jews enough.

        No, I don’t but you deserve the title childish. Amply. Like that time you found out I’m of Flemish descent and tried to make the point that I was a member of Vlaams Belang. I hate these guys’ guts. It’d be like saying you must be a member of the EDL because they support Israel too.

        You’re a blowhard imbecile and living testimony that criticism of Israel is automatically equated to Jew hatred in some quarters.

        And what “nice Stuart on that Christian blog” might that have been? Substantiate your claim.

      • Dad, you said on your blog that you from Belgium. I thought it was really cool when I heard you had a blog. Then I saw it, and felt so ashamed.

        I’m not ashamed my family comes from Belgium. I want to learn the saxophone, look like Audrey Hepburn and eat waffles. It’s when everyone at school asks me about you that I want to hide.

        It’d be like saying you must be a member of the EDL because they support Israel too.

        You said that to Mr. Modernity on Mr. Weissman’s blog! You know, when Mr. Weissman was harassed by the Police because of that antisemitic priest, and theology teacher who used to be in the National Front.

        You’re a blowhard imbecile and living testimony that criticism of Israel is automatically equated to Jew hatred in some quarters.

        Ooo, I heard something in English lessons which that reminds me of.

        “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”.

        Me and Richard didn’t say you can’t criticize Israel… no, that’s wrong. My Scottish friends have something called Modern Studies, and their teacher tells them that someone who hates a whole country might think the same way as a racist.

        Me and Richard didn’t say you can’t criticize Israeli policy… you said we did. Stop it, Dad. It’s like when you tried to use Flemish words at Scrabble, even through you also used English words.

        Here Stuart is in the comments.

        I remember when you asked that nice Israeli Nurse at Harry’s Place to show you her “Jewish tits”. You make me sick!

  15. Obviously there were no British fascists, oh no…

    If you had read/watched the book/film, you’d know that the “poshie” who was a Fifth Columnist was the local English squire.

    If it hadn’t been for la manche the German army would have rolled into South England meeting little resistance.

    Considering that British Commanders, unlike Gamelin, had at least realized that they couldn’t keep fighting with Great War tactics (and, when asked to reform, to continue fighting with Great War tactics just in case it worked), they just might have giving Fritz a run for his money.

    It’s absurd to conjecturize and whatif about the Channel, considering its presence had turned the British political outlook into what it was.

    • If you had read/watched the book/film, you’d know that the “poshie” who was a Fifth Columnist was the local English squire.

      Listen numpty, I hadn’t read the ‘book’, apologies, you know? Apparently acc. Wiki it’s a short story. Perhaps you haven’t actually read it either? Twit…

      • Well, if you have neither read the book nor watched the fillum, why did you try to pick me up on my analysis of it? It really is the pits of ignorance to make summat of books or short stories.

        In the fillum version, there was a brilliant scene in which a young Thora Hird started taking taking pot-shots at the infiltrating fallschirmjägers. Remember that next time you swagger onto Christian blogs.

  16. [...] they just might have giving Fritz a run for his money.

    Baloney from an armchair general. Apparently it’s only you who’re allowed to “conjecturize [sic] and whatif”.

    • Goodness. You have plumbed even the depths of inanity with the squabble about the difference betwixt a “book” and “short story”. And you’re someone who glossed over Cameron’s twaddle about dates and junior partners (the Eton history don must be spitting blood).

      You suggested that the Nazi war-machine was unstoppable (TM.) despite the best efforts from British and other Allied forces, whose political rulers were ardently anti-Nazi.

      It wasn’t, they weren’t and they weren’t.

      Plus, I think you mean “armchair *historian*”… unless you’re currently on the road to Dunkirk.

  17. As regards Mark Elf from JsF, I consider him a personal friend and like to think he thinks the same of me. JsF (with the other contributors there) is probably the best anti-Zio Britblog in existence. It’s of a quality your hyperborean claptrap can only dream of. Not to mention readership.

    Stop blowing through your arse…

    • My word, Gert, you’re getting rattled. I’ve noted this as part of your MO… you make increasingly appalling comments on [pro]-Zionist or non-malevolently anti-Israel blogs.

      Your daughter has listed a few. She’d tell more, but I think she’s crying in the bathroom.

      Then, when someone comes along and speaks to your with irreverence or ‘disrespect’, the leering clown-mask slips and a bleating child is revealed.

  18. Gert, it was certainly touch-and-go for Britain after the Fall of France, but the fact remains that Britain stood alone – the USA has not entered the war, so at that stage there was no partner of any description.
    Following Pearl Harbor, of course, it was a different matter – Eisenhower was based on Portsdown Hill and thanks to the Yanks we’re still speaking English and not German …. Of course, some of us would not be speaking any language at all.
    Nevertheless, Cameron made a blooper and has egg on his face. Not that that seems to worry him.

  19. Lieberman’s fiancée:

    You said that to Mr. Modernity on Mr. Weissman’s blog!

    You’ve got your side of the story, Richard Silverstein had another. Weissman played dirty. He got what he deserved. Modders is a whimp who bans dissent on the pretend grounds that the dissenters are ‘fascists’. You lot don’t know the meaning of the word. But you sure like yourself say it…

    So Stuart (who?) comments on your cesspit. That’s the best you could come up with? What does that prove?

    It wasn’t, they weren’t and they weren’t.

    Says who? You? And I should take note, why?

    My word, Gert, you’re getting rattled. I’ve noted this as part of your MO… you make increasingly appalling comments on [pro]-Zionist or non-malevolently anti-Israel blogs.

    You fucking moron, you have the gall to say this after the kind of filth you spouted at me over at Harry’s Place?

    It isn’t me who starts spouting insults at people here: it’s you and your pals. Go back one or two posts on this blog: over 250 comments dedicated to me.

    Rattled by an inbred from Cardiff? Forget it, son. I give as good as I get.

    BTW, I don’t ‘hate’ Israel but I despise what it does, foreign policy wise. Anyone who can’t see what this colonisation is doing to the ‘Fakestinians’ and to Israel itself is a bind moron. Like you.

  20. Daphne:

    Sorry, but I don’t see it as a blooper. The whole ‘special relationship’ stinks to high heaven after Iraq and ‘Afpak’ of course but that’s another matter…

  21. Lieberman’s fiancée:

    Go back on just about every thread on this blog for months on end and see how almost each of my respectful comments here results in barrages of abuse, at one point even credible threats of violence against my person (that was a real first ever!) Zios like you are muckrakers: everywhere they go has to be turned into a sandbox from which they start throwing their mud (and sometimes it sticks too…) It shows Zionism for what it is: a bankrupt racist ideology and a massive smear machine.

    • Gert, Lieberman is a fascist in the classical sense (like that Italian dude). He also is a marginal figure in Israeli society who owes his public influence to the 100% PR in the Knesset (which also allows Arab MKs who call for the State’s dissolution).

      Judging Israeli society by him is a bit like judging Belgian society by Vlaams Belaang, no?

    • Lieberman’s fiancée:

      That’s like the time you called me the Whore of Babylon because I went to that funny movie, Don’t Mess With the Zohan.

      When I hear Hebrew accents, I feel funny. It’s like the smell of corn-flowers on a warm sunny day when I’m riding my bicycle.

  22. Gert, what a truly pathetic reply. You don’t answer, then pretend the problem is with others, not you. Considering how you were humiliated on previous blogs, I think you must simply be a masochist for showing up here.

    It is clear you have no problem with Turkey’s maltreatment of the Kurds – indeed, your silence indicates tacit approval. YOU are the one trick pony, and a very transparent one.

    Disgusting hypocrisy.

    • Adam, unfortunately past comments at Harry’s Place now are removed from public view (‘cos of the likes of Corbyn trying to ban anyone who disagrees)… but Gert’s dismissal of Sri Lanka’s killing of more Tamil civilians than the Israeli military has in decades was… well… it would have been hilarious had it not been real humans.

  23. Gert, you have a persecution complex…”they were nasty to me, called me horrible names…” but then you have no problem calling others mentally impaired for disagreeing with you.

    Sums up your (lack of) logic – and indicates a rather grandiose opinion of yourself and your invisible blog.

  24. Alec:

    Judging Israeli society by him is a bit like judging Belgian society by Vlaams Belaang, no?

    And where do I do that, huh? Nowhere, except in your mind. Yet if we had a Lieberman figure in a British government you’d call him rotten but for Israel? No, that’s all hunky dory… Don’t judge the poor dears, they’re Zionists!

    but Gert’s dismissal of Sri Lanka’s killing of more Tamil civilians than the Israeli military has in decades was… well… it would have been hilarious had it not been real humans.

    You’re right Alec, that’s lill’ Adam’s argument too: ethics, schmethics. There are worse situations that I/P so we should just leave the Israeli butchers to it. By that token and to be fair we should also leave the Sri Lankan butchers to it as well of course, works both ways you see.

    You have an overheated imagination: what I said about Sri Lanka at HP was that the Tamils didn’t quite strike me as angels either and that partitioning the island doesn’t strike me as the greatest solution possible. Not an extreme position. I stand by that. As regards any reaction that might have gotten that would probably have come from the usual Rightists: Arfur, MORGOTH, Anaximander’s other brain cell, Israeli nurse, Gert’s daughter etc etc.

    Face it, son: your judging of those critical of Israel or in support of the Palestinians is purely reflexive. You’re now trying to come across a little more reasonable but in essence your stance is Modders’ (but with added obnoxiousness): “in anti-Zionism, Zionism is a code word for Da Jooos“.

    You, Daniel Marks, Mike Melchett, Nick K, Silke et al on this blog should ask themselves what they are achieving other than confirming the stereotype that a frank discussion with Zios is impossible.

  25. Lill’ Adam:

    I answered your question. You just didn’t like the answer. Tough.

  26. I couldn’t rat’s ass if “Cameron needs to take stock about Islamic fundamentalism” and had no intention of commenting on this excellent page, until Gert lost control again:

    “You, Daniel Marks, Mike Melchett, Nick K, Silke et al on this blog should ask themselves what they are achieving other than confirming the stereotype that a frank discussion with Zios is impossible.” – Gert

    Let’s be honest Gert. We were supposed to have had a “frank discussion”. You asked me for my views and then chickened out publishing them on your blog, as you had promised to. You claimed that they were “too boring” but that was about a month after you’d read them and said you’d post them. The last thing you wanted on your empty blog was “frank discussion” that involved arguments you couldn’t answer.

    If you’re scared of being seen to be publishing an argument that your googled, smattering of a knowledge of the Arab-Israeli doesn’t provide you the tools to deal with, then answer me off blog. I won’t publish anything you write so don’t be afraid.

    At that point. when you showed yourself incapable of handling my argument you chose the road of being an abusive wanker instead.
    You figured that even if you couldn’t handle facts or analysis, then at least when it comes to being offensive, you could be as good as anyone else.

    Hilariously, you turned out to be pretty lame at that too and reminded me of seeing a little runny nosed kid who thinks he knows Kung Fu getting beaten up in the playground, first by the boys then by the girls (I thank here Silke et al).

    Now all that’s left is to go crying to the teacher that everyone hates you and you don’t know why.

    Bottom line, you’re an ignorant coward, but you have to keep coming back for another smacking because it’s the only life you have.

    Therefore, I recommend you checking out the Gala Bingo club:

    The Promenade, Bridlington, YO15 2QE.

    But don’t go pissing off the old dears there. They might not be as understanding as your cyber “friends”.

  27. Gert…er, no, you didn’t.

    It may help to learn that answering the question means to answer it substantively. For example, if I ask you your favourite colour, answering “two. thirty” is not an answer.

  28. Daniel:

    Zzzzzz…

    You remain beneath contempt in my book. Don’t bother with links, I don’t click. Save them for ‘Silke’, she loves that kind of thing…

    I won’t publish anything you write so don’t be afraid.

    I don’t trust you. I pen pal with Israelis that look at you as an oddball.

  29. Alec:

    As regards Lieberman and Vlaams Belang (VB).

    Firstly, VB operate only in Flanders (not all of Belgium). Because of VB’s racism (and its past more radical precursor ‘Vlaams Blok’) there exists a so called Cordon Sanitaire around VB. This means that all parties have pledged to NEVER form a coalition with VB. In practice they would have to win by an outright majority to ever enjoy government. In contrast to proto-fascist Lieberman makes it to Foreign Minister!

    Secondly, Israel’s government is made up of Far Right elements, bar Labor [cough!].

  30. Gert, why can’t you answer a question?

    Why are you so scared?

  31. Adam:

    Yawn.

    What was the question again? Repeat it and I’ll answer it.

  32. Gert, you’re running out of – “yawn”, “zzz” – you’ll have to find new ways of expressing your inability to keep up.

    If you’re so bored, why do you keep coming back for more abuse – you really are a masochist.

  33. Daniel Marks

    “I (Gert) don’t trust you. I pen pal with Israelis that look at you (Daniel) as an oddball.”

    Q. How do you know that Gert is lying?

    A. When he claims he has pals.

    Name one Israeli pal Gert. Name one pal. If you had any pals you wouldn’t have to waste your life getting duffed up on a blog where everyone despises you.

    Nothing to do with your barmy views, mate. Plenty of people are barmier. S’just you.

    My problem with corresponding with Gert is that I always feel afterwards that I’ve just trod in something rather smelly.

  34. Adam:

    I assume your question was:

    I assume, Gert, that you hope Cameron raised the issue of Turkey occupying northern Cyprus (where, surprise surprise, the churches have all been destroyed, turned into mosques or cattle enclosures, and 200,000 Greek swere ethnically cleansed). I am sure you will join me in hoping that Cameron condemned Turkey’s repeated and routine airstrikes on Kurdish villages in northern Iraq, where hundreds of civilians have been killed (no TV pictures – funny, that) whilst assisting Syria militarily in massacring hundreds of Kurds inside Syria (there have also been mass arrests) – happening now – today – not that you would know from the left wing Israel obsessed media.
    I’m sure you’ll join me in condemning these unprovoked actions – won’t you Gert?

    I condemn all human rights abuses, cases of occupation and other injustices around the world. I see you claim you condemn these too but where? Here, in an attempt to delegitimise any criticism of Israel. Elsewhere?

    Now it’s my turn to ask you a question. I’ll make it a simple one. Do you condemn the 42 year Occupation of the West Bank and the nearly as old colonisation of an increasingly large part of it by Israel? Yes or no?

  35. Danny:

    Tut tut. Such strong language from a choirboy like you…

    Name one Israeli pal Gert. Name one pal.

    I know you think I’m mad but I can assure you I’m not crazy enough to reveal my sources deep inside Zion. They however do now know about you.

  36. Daniel Marks

    I’ll settle for the name of any pal, anywhere, Gert. There must be one somewhere.

    Name me one and I’ll buy you a bingo card next time I’m in Bridlington.

  37. Sorry, no deal.

  38. Daniel Marks

    As a child, did you have any friends? Maybe you could give one of them a call. What about the other losers at the labor exchange? There must be somebody somewhere who wants to be your friend.

    Hang on. I’ve had an idea:

    http://www.northernbelles.co.uk/bridlington_escorts.htm

  39. Interesting to read the Sunday Times.
    Lots of stuff about Cameron-Pakistan.
    Zilch on Cameron-Gaza.

  40. Gert, surely you mean the 62 year “Occupation”? (I like the capital “O” by the way – just like “Holocaust”).

    Or wasn’t it an “Occupation” when Jordan grabbed Judea and Samaria and the Old City of Jerusalmem in 1948, ethnically cleansing the Jews?

    Do tell.

  41. Gert, can’t you maek up a name? Go for something Jewish sounding – ending in “itz” or something.

  42. Of course Gert does a disappearing act, his “Occupation” thesis in tatters.

  43. From:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/02/david-cameron-plain-talking-diplomacy

    ‘It isn’t just Lord Palmerston’s famous proposition that in foreign affairs there are no permanent friendships, only permanent interests’
    ‘I’d rather have a prime minister who believes he is clever enough to speak out in public than one who believes he is clever enough to solve the world’s problems by going to war.’

    Amen

  44. Adam:

    Of course Gert does a disappearing act, his “Occupation” thesis in tatters.

    I’m not at your beck and call 24/7, Adam. I’ve got other things to do than discuss matters with a reality denier. It’s not bad enough that as a result of Israel’s Occupation in 1967 another 250,000 Arabs lost their homes to the Zionist project and that some 500,000 Israelis (about 10 % of Israelis, talk about population transfer!) have taken up residence in that area, to add insult to injury imbeciles like you blame… the Arabs!

    You’ll now undoubtedly declare victory(!) for yourself like a petulant teenager, but I’m done here. Discussing I/P with you would be more frustrating than debating The Flat Earth Society. Consider yourself from now on ignored in perpetuity. I usually give newcomers a chance but I don’t suffer fools gladly.

  45. I have found the reference:-
    ‘The former British ambassador to Libya, Sir Oliver Miles, has criticised the appointment of two leading Jews to the Iraq inquiry.
    Sir Oliver drew attention to the appointment of Holocaust historian and Winston Churchill biographer Sir Martin Gilbert, and the war historian and ‘Blair doctrine’ architect Sir Lawrence Freedman, who advocated humanitarian intervention in Kosovo and Afghanistan.
    The two men will be made privy counsellors in order to sit on the inquiry committee.
    Sir Oliver wrote in the Independent newspaper that he was concerned that two out of five of the Iraq War inquiry committee members were Jewish, and questioned the balance of the committee.
    He wrote: “Both Gilbert and Freedman are Jewish, and Gilbert at least has a record of active support for Zionism.’

    Richard Goldstone had a similar record to MG and look what happened to him.

    • richardmillett

      But what has anyone’s religion got to do with it?

      • That is a good question; perhaps in these PC times every public body should be constituted with a recognisable diverse membership? Or not!
        To avoid issues perceived bias I would suggest that the criteria for appointment to such groups be published.

  46. Nice way of avoiding the question of “Occupation” Gert – the question you raised. When disproven, you start name calling “flat earth” etc.

    How original.

    And how to display the poverty of your thesis, holes and all. You know full well that Jordan not only illegally occupied Judea and Samaria in 1948 (no calls for a Palestinian state then – wonder why). No – you also know that the Jews who lived there were then ethnically cleansed by the Jordanians and Palestinians. You also know that not only were these Jews driven from their land (the ones that survived, that is), but that the ancient synagogues of the Old City (“East Jerusalem” to your historically illiterate vocabulary) were systematically destroyed, and the ancient Jewish cemetary of the Mount of Olives was vandalised and desecrated.

    Maybe historical revisionism works on you – but your irrational hatred, fed by lies and propaganda, becomes more and more apparent the more you type.

    Why don’t you address the issue of the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the Arab world – including Judea and Samaria?

  47. Daniel Marks

    Adam,

    You write to Gert:

    “You know full well that..” but that is the first flaw in your argument. Many Israelis who have lived and studied the Arab-Israeli conflict for decades and their Jewish family and friends abroad, often make the mistake of assuming a similar level of knowledge when discussing the matter with non-Jews.

    There are, of course, many non-Jews who have a deep and even personal understanding of the subject. I often find myself in formal or informal debate with Arab spokesmen and while our conclusions are generally very different, the facts upon which they are based are usually quite quickly agreed upon.

    However, other self appointed anti-Zionist spokesmen have often only the most superficial knowledge of historical, geographical, geopolitical facts, usually attained from secondary sources such as Google or foreign newspapers. Recently I entertained a group of foreign journalists and challenged them to guess what percentage of the Middle East is currently occupied by Israel. Estimates ranged from 5-15%!

    Never assume that the Gerts of this world know anything “full well”. Up until recently he thought that Jaffa was in the “West Bank” and had been ethnically cleansed. On a parallel page another character calling herself Franne this week confused Israeli Arabs with Palestinians and asked why no Palestinians are senior Israeli politicians. While we tend to think these characters are twisting or distorting facts, in fact they never knew them, to begin with.

    In fairness our level of understanding of many other distant global conflicts is no less skimpy.

  48. Daniel, you are of course right – though I’m not Jewish either! However, I fancy my knowledge is more complete thatn Gert’s – I’m sure he’s never been to Israel either. And a fascinating statistic about the journalists – scary! How do such ignorant people become journalists?